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Xandu posted:So I had asked for a raise and my boss countered with a promotion to the next grade at the end of the year, which I accepted. I have a feeling now based on our last conversation that he's expecting me to accept what I had originally asked for as the raise, but I feel like it's fair to ask for more than that given that I'll be at the next level, right?
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Nov 4, 2015 02:10
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I am a PM for a large specialized construction company and I have an interview next Friday with one of our competitors. I currently make 64k/Year salary, with 6% match at 100% and I can receive up to 2 bonuses a year, however, they are not guaranteed at all, however, last year, I received $14k between the two. I have about 4 years experience. If I were to take a new job, I would lose around 3k in non vested amount for leaving before 5 years and would not be eligible for any bonuses, which come out in March. I travel alot and have a company car and my boss is lenient about using it on the weekends, so, I actually do not have a personal car. I also believe I am a good position to be promoted when my boss retires, however, that would be probably 3-5 years out. The director at the competitor asked what salary I would need to consider to interview to make sure we are on the same page. I told him it was hard to give him a number without seeing all of the benefits and discussing the job further, however, it would probably be around 90K/year. He sent me the benefits and they are not as good as my current company. The retirement is only 4% match at 1/2% that they cap out at $2k match per year and also mentioned that their policy for company vehicle is for using it during the week only. Their insurance would also be a little bit more per week. They also said there are bonuses, however, I have not heard specifically much about them. So, basically, it is a higher salary and the benefits are not as good. I'm assuming I should try to negotiate an upfront bonus and hopefully work something out with the vehicle policy. My old boss negotiated $200/wk and he drives his own vehicle, however, he usually just drives it to the air port and flies out while my travel would be more driving. Any tips on negotiating for more?
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Nov 5, 2015 04:26
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- asked for X dollars 3 months ago based on as much research as I could possibly do (unfortunately it was on old information, now they pay more. they forced me to give them a number despite a lot of back-and-forth) - just received an offer for 9% more than I asked for - I want to ask for more b/c why not (both of my managers said to go for it). I won't offend anyone except maybe recruiting but it doesn't matter as I'm already in the company. How do I word it? "thanks, i asked for X dollars 3 months ago but have since then been in discussion with other companies and +5% is my new target"? and if they tell me to screw off, ask for extra equity? edit: "Thank you so much for this offer. I'm really excited to work at _____ and am confident that I will bring a lot of value and succeed here. The offer of $X is interesting, but after doing further research the past few months, I was hoping it would be a bit higher. Is it possible for you to bump the offer to x+10% per year? If so, I would accept the offer immediately." That okay? Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 17:23
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Don't mention your lower offer. Don't even give them a flicker of a hint that you might possibly be satisfied, in the past or ever, with a lower number than you're gunning for.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:27
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Here's an interesting scenario. I've worked as a temp for 1 year. They're now bringing me on full time. My base rate has been well below market value, but it is in the industry that I want to get into. This is my first job out of college basically. I'm embarrassed to say exactly what I've been working for, but it isn't much. They offered me a dollar an hour increase. Even though I know they've been paying the temp agency 11.50 more per hour than I make. I'm definitely being lowballed, but I don't know if I actually have much leverage because I was a temp here. I could get another job if I wanted, but I do like working here and the culture is good. The experience also lines up really well with what I want to do in the future. If I come out and say "I like it here but this is too low." Will that actually mean anything? I've never done this before and I'm afraid that they will either rescind the offer if I try and make a fuss over this.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:19
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packsmack posted:Here's an interesting scenario. I've worked as a temp for 1 year. They're now bringing me on full time. My base rate has been well below market value, but it is in the industry that I want to get into. This is my first job out of college basically. I'm embarrassed to say exactly what I've been working for, but it isn't much. They offered me a dollar an hour increase. Even though I know they've been paying the temp agency 11.50 more per hour than I make. I'm definitely being lowballed, but I don't know if I actually have much leverage because I was a temp here. I could get another job if I wanted, but I do like working here and the culture is good. The experience also lines up really well with what I want to do in the future. Ask for what you want, though I wouldn't expect to even get a majority of that $11.50. The company may have to pay a buyout, and I believe additional taxes as well as benefits if you get them. The key point here is that they want to bring you on full time, so unless your company is terrible the worst they'll do is say that the rate is not negotiable.
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Nov 6, 2015 08:16
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There's also the argument to be made that a short term pay cut pays off bigger later on, as long as you prepare the follow up meeting to negotiate the raise and perform very well leading up to it. I'm in that situation now; I could be earning more with shorter hours but that position was the end of the line; build up business in this position I'm in now, cop the immediate pain of more hours, earn phenomenally more in six months time. I'm only doing it because of the relationship I have with my bosses though.
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Nov 7, 2015 00:41
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Not a Children posted:Don't mention your lower offer. Don't even give them a flicker of a hint that you might possibly be satisfied, in the past or ever, with a lower number than you're gunning for. Me 3 months ago: fine I'll give a number, 88 recruiting's offer htis week: 95 My response: after 3 months of research i was hoping for 105, can you do that? recruiting: i increased based from 88 already "and don’t have a lot of room on the salary side". may be able to bump equity, how do you feel about that I'd like to try once more on salary. do I repeat 105 again, ask about 100-102, or just ask him what he's willing to do on the salary side since he clearly has *some* room ("don't have a lot of room")?
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Nov 7, 2015 00:51
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Ask for more vacation time.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:14
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Blinky2099 posted:Welp, tried that but he brought it up when I requested more money. Assuming you weren't in a constant negotiation for three months, some form of "88k was 3 months ago, the market has changed in the meantime" is a reasonable ask. Equity's a gamble, I'd treat it as just above "we'll pay this portion of your salary to you in magic beans" unless you strongly believe the company will be on an upward trajectory for at least two years. If not, or they're firm on the 95k, I'd go for less-tangibles like vacation time, title, perks.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:17
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A while back I posted about how I was currently underpaid by about 25% at a company and position that I really enjoyed. After heeding the advice in this thread (thanks all) I ended up going to my boss and telling him my story, which was basically that I could jump ship and get a 20-25% bump, but that I really didn't want to do that. My company has a yearly review cycle where pay increases/bonuses are decided and this had passed about 6 weeks before I had the conversation. Most people here said I was probably poo poo out of luck for that sort of bump and to get ready to jump ship, but to give it a try. The conversation went well. He recognized what I was saying and basically said what do you need to stay. I told him the number I wanted as a base, which was my current + 25%. He said he would fight for it internally (it's a large company, he doesn't make the decision). He didn't even try to counter which makes me think I should have went higher. That was nearly 2 months ago. Finally, I got my answer today. He offered a 25% bonus right now that would bring me up to the number I asked for. He also verbally committed to getting me that number as my base after the next review, so essentially next August, meaning until then my base would be my current salary. With that offer my boss basically asked if was satisfactory. Initially I was pretty happy about it, but after it sinking in I realized it basically just a bonus that is "for sure". From reading the thread it seems like bonus is a common tactic to keep people happy without actually committing. Should I push back to get this as my base *now* or maybe ask for some form of written offer for the increase at my next review? Any advice or recommended arguments to make for base over bonus? Seriously though, thanks to this thread I am getting much closer than I thought I could, so thanks!
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Nov 7, 2015 18:38
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Write him an email summarizing your convo to get it on the record. Dear Boss, Thanks for taking the time to chat. I just wanted to confirm my understanding of our discussion - 25% bonus right now for this year and you will get my base salary increases to current +25% for next year, is this correct? Thanks [You] Modify wording / structure as needed for specific context and relationship but now that he's stated it, leaving it a verbal only promise will set you up for disappointment in 12 months.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:36
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Kalenn's right. A bonus that you are absolutely getting this year is equivalent to a salary increase this year. If your boss is sticking up for you, and you enjoy your work, you might stick around and trust him to do right by you on salary next year. Your boss has more people to answer to than just you though. If you are worried that you might not get your promised salary increase, you can always interview in 9.5 months so that you have leverage when your next review comes around. Then you get your agreed upon salary, or you walk.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:45
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I recently completed a technical interview, and I was just asked to name a compensation number in an e-mail sent by the internal recruiter I was working with. There's still another interview to go before they'll make a hiring decision though. Should I say something like "it's tough to name a number without knowing the full offer such as overtime policies, bonus structures, vacation, 401k, mileage reimbursements, and health care"? I was also considering just naming the highest number I saw for them on glassdoor.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:20
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Initio posted:I recently completed a technical interview, and I was just asked to name a compensation number in an e-mail sent by the internal recruiter I was working with. Alternatively assume all of those other things sucked and contemplate what number you'd need to make it work if all of those were inadequate. Also contemplate what you'd need if all of those needs were satisfied. Give the higher of the two. Cede ground toward your lower number as the positions on all of those things get adequate. That way the person you're speaking with feels like they're winning something by virtue of their wholly unremarkable benefits package. But never tell them the lower number.
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Nov 13, 2015 14:57
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Position I am very interested in, gone through the interview process and told I'm the top candidate. They want me to send my salary history before I get an offer, which is pretty brief (I haven't been in the workforce long) and also in some of the cheapest COL cities in the country. This job is in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I'd rather send something along the lines of 'I'd prefer to have that conversation revolve around my merit/qualifications and the responsibilities of the position'. Any better way to phrase this type of thought?
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Nov 14, 2015 03:54
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I'd approach it something like: "I'd be happy to negotiate my compensation with you once we've both determined that we're a great fit for each other. If we're a great fit, I can be flexible with you about the numbers." Merit/qualifications or responsibilities don't seem like good framing to me because then the other party can start thinking about ways to claim you aren't so meritorious/qualified as to deserve your asking price.
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Nov 14, 2015 04:06
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redcheval posted:Position I am very interested in, gone through the interview process and told I'm the top candidate. They want me to send my salary history before I get an offer, which is pretty brief (I haven't been in the workforce long) and also in some of the cheapest COL cities in the country. This job is in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I'd rather send something along the lines of 'I'd prefer to have that conversation revolve around my merit/qualifications and the responsibilities of the position'. Any better way to phrase this type of thought? Take this from someone who has not been in this situation, but you might consider giving them your target number in addition to your history (factoring in the change in COL in new city) so that things start around what you want rather than what they think they can offer from your lower previous salaries. General advice is to never name a number first, but it might help in this situation.
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Nov 14, 2015 04:33
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I probably could have used this thread a few years back, but luckily I've been able to navigate my own negotiations somewhat well, without much advise. I'll give my experience in case it helps anyone. Back in 2009 I had just graduated college and landed my first post college job. Thank you economy, and 4 months later I got laid off. 8 months of job hunting while unemployed and I finally land a job at a non-profit. I was fairly underpaid for the position (I found out they were paying the exact same wage 10 years prior for the same position), but at the time of hire felt I couldn't negotiate as I was desperate for a livable income. It was enough to pay the bills and not be stressed so it wasn't horrible. 2 years into the job I approached my boss about wanting to be compensated more, and that my pay didn't align with the market. That got quickly shot down with a hard no with an excuse of the budget not allowing for it. I walked away with my head hung low and went back to work. A year later the pay was really bothering me so I approached by boss again, but this time asking for a letter of recommendation. I explained that I had specific goals in my life such as having a family and buying a house, and that in my current situation I could never meet those goals. That I loved working for the organization (I really do), and didn't want to leave, but I need to be able to meet those goals. My boss agreed to write the letter, but then asked what I needed to stay. I gave her a specific number (35% more) and she said she would see what she could do. A month or so went by without anything happening, and I feigned like I was really looking for a new job (I wasn't yet) by asking her to sign the letter of recommendation (she originally provided as digital, not signed) which she did, but she got real concerned and it kinda lit a fire under her rear end. She had been dealing with HR at that point (large company, had to go through HR, Finance, and Comp), and finally came back to me with exactly what I asked for shortly after. This was fantastic, but it only really got me up to a fair compensation (at a non-profit) for what I was doing. And the only reason I got it was because I kick rear end at my job and really impressed everyone. This important beyond just the obvious of helping me in the salary negotiation. I was soon then after able to negotiate working from home as often as I wanted, and basically being unsupervised going forward, allowing me to complete my job in 4-6 hours daily on average, instead of 8. To me, this is worth a substantial amount of money. Key in a fantastic working environment, great benefits (5 weeks PTO, 6% full 401k match, cheap health), and I was pretty drat happy. I felt like I successfully got through my first real negotiation, got what I asked for which by most standards (%), was a lot, and I proved that my boss thinks I'm worth it. 2 years later and I'm starting to get the itch again. My marketable skills have skyrocketed since I first started, and I'm at the point where I think I should go look for another job to increase my pay, maybe get out of non-profits. I originally told myself 5 years there, and then go look for something better. Simultaneously I started having a lot more responsibilities dropped on me. So before I started really job hunting, I went in asking for a raise again. I brought up all the additional responsibilities, market rates for what the job truly required now based on what i was being asked to do, how much I could make elsewhere, and that what I was doing (very well) warranted a promotion (to a position that didn't exist; this was literally my same position just with added responsibilities). We had a few discussions about it, I had asked for 35% more, and (after a couple months - yay corporate) just got the final offer for 30% and 3 more PTO days which I accepted. I am extremely satisfied with my results, and imagine it is uncommon in large corporations outside of obvious upgrade paths. For example, my boss said the standard company raise for a promotion is 5% and she has been able to do 10% in the past for someone that combined 2 positions into one. It really all came down to being strong handed with my negotiations, coming to the table very prepared, being willing to walk (which I completely was both times), having outstanding recorded performance (I've 'exceeded' expectations every year I've worked there, which just means do more than the bare minimum combined with good social skills), and not willing to settle. For the first raise, my boss came back with negotiating strategy of increasing valuables other than direct pay, such as training, small gifts, recognition, etc. I was firm in those negotiations about what I needed to be compensated with ($$$) for me to stay with the organization. I'm still making quite a bit less than I could in a for-profit environment, but the job perks are probably worth an easy $30k to me. I feel that none of this would have been accomplished without a good rapport with my boss though, which includes some of those perks. In under 6 years I've been able to increase my salary by 81%, granted I didn't start with a lot. My next step is probably going to be a new company, because I feel like I've reached the limit in expanding my role as there aren't any direct promotions available to me, and I don't see the responsibilities increasing again. Time will tell, but I'm guessing I'll need close to another 30% increase to leave what I have now. Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 08:28
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redcheval posted:Position I am very interested in, gone through the interview process and told I'm the top candidate. They want me to send my salary history before I get an offer, which is pretty brief (I haven't been in the workforce long) and also in some of the cheapest COL cities in the country. This job is in one of the most expensive cities in the country. I'd rather send something along the lines of 'I'd prefer to have that conversation revolve around my merit/qualifications and the responsibilities of the position'. Any better way to phrase this type of thought? Don't want to double post, but my last one was a wall of text. My recommendation would be to say something along the lines of that you are interested in negotiating the salary specifically for the position they are hiring for and that you don't feel your previous pay is relevant to those discussions. To help satisfy them, you may consider including your salary requirements. Obviously you give the weaker hand by giving the number first, but this is much more favorable than giving your past numbers, and allows you to shoot much higher than what you need, and allow them to negotiate down to what you really want / need. Loan Dusty Road fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 08:35
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Dustoph posted:Don't want to double post, but my last one was a wall of text. Thanks all for the advice, this thread is fantastic. It was a tough call but I ended up taking Chaotic Flame's method. This year I've made 60% of my full time salary in freelance work, which I included in my total. Taking that number into account, I stated my target as being a few thousand more than the estimated equivalent of my current total income in the new location, which also happens to be the top number of the average salary range for this type of position in that location as well. With more experience and in any future negotiations, I can see myself in a stronger position to avoid giving a number at all.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:06
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redcheval posted:Thanks all for the advice, this thread is fantastic. It was a tough call but I ended up taking Chaotic Flame's method. This year I've made 60% of my full time salary in freelance work, which I included in my total. Taking that number into account, I stated my target as being a few thousand more than the estimated equivalent of my current total income in the new location, which also happens to be the top number of the average salary range for this type of position in that location as well. With more experience and in any future negotiations, I can see myself in a stronger position to avoid giving a number at all. From the tone of your posts I am picking up a whiff of reluctance to stand firm and hold some other party to your own standards, and letting them move on if that's what it requires. Getting confidence in what you do will help. Having stable employment that you do not need to leave will help. And finally, practice will help. If you want to play the negotiation game and win you should play more rounds of it, and that means going out and interviewing and negotiating very aggressively. The worst case scenario is that when you are doing this you will negotiate yourself out of an offer that you didn't really intend on taking anyway. The best case scenario is that you succeed and now have to make a hard decision about significantly better compensation being offered.
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Nov 17, 2015 14:43
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My boss made some changes to our healthcare policy, and I found out when Kaiser sent me an email "congratulations on your new policy!". I feel somewhere between kind of pissed and really pissed, because the new plan covers less and I will incur more costs on not only the regular preventive care that is part of being a healthy, responsible adult, and also the stuff I haven't taken care of - like physical therapy, a prescription refill, etc. - because why would my health benefits be changed without notice?  I feel like a 10 second email "hey guys, health care costs are rising, I'm making changes, get your poo poo taken care of" would be infinitely more courteous and kind then "hey guys, health care costs are rising, gently caress you". Do I have unrealistic expectations? At our next check-in I want to rage about how he made changes to my compensation package without even a heads up, but I don't have any basis for evaluating how sane it is and how angry I should be... fake edit: He claims to "hate dealing with HR stuff", which is his excuse every time he has hosed me over. I might need a new job.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:41
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:From the tone of your posts I am picking up a whiff of reluctance to stand firm and hold some other party to your own standards, and letting them move on if that's what it requires. Oh yeah, I am absolutely inexperienced in this regard and wasn't actively seeking this job either (they came to me). It would be an incredible opportunity and I'd be extremely happy to take it, but they just responded with an extreme lowball compared to the target I gave them. Fortunately I am in a stable situation and there are some good reasons to be content not moving. I'd accept the midway point between my initial target and their current offer. I also haven't seen the benefits yet (although that should be on its way to me to look at). As it stands if I take the current offer, it's a pretty decent pay cut. Is there a best course of action in this case?
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Nov 17, 2015 23:30
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redcheval posted:As it stands if I take the current offer, it's a pretty decent pay cut. Is there a best course of action in this case? Be willing to walk away. If they don't want to budge, tell them thank you but no. If they let you walk away, then you dodged a severely underpaying job. IMO, any company that gives out hideous lowball offers with a straight face is not a good company to work for. If they don't want to pay even near-market rate for labor, what other essential things do they not want to pay for?
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Nov 17, 2015 23:53
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Happiness Commando posted:My boss made some changes to our healthcare policy, and I found out when Kaiser sent me an email "congratulations on your new policy!". I feel somewhere between kind of pissed and really pissed, because the new plan covers less and I will incur more costs on not only the regular preventive care that is part of being a healthy, responsible adult, and also the stuff I haven't taken care of - like physical therapy, a prescription refill, etc. - because why would my health benefits be changed without notice? How small is your company? Yes, you need a new job, and in the interim I'd ask for a pay raise to cover the loss of benefits with no warning.
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Nov 18, 2015 19:33
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No Butt Stuff posted:How small is your company? Yes, you need a new job, and in the interim I'd ask for a pay raise to cover the loss of benefits with no warning. I'm one of 3 full timers, 5 total.
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Nov 18, 2015 19:58
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Happiness Commando posted:My boss made some changes to our healthcare policy, and I found out when Kaiser sent me an email "congratulations on your new policy!". I feel somewhere between kind of pissed and really pissed, because the new plan covers less and I will incur more costs on not only the regular preventive care that is part of being a healthy, responsible adult, and also the stuff I haven't taken care of - like physical therapy, a prescription refill, etc. - because why would my health benefits be changed without notice?
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Nov 19, 2015 00:34
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Happiness Commando posted:fake edit: He claims to "hate dealing with HR stuff", which is his excuse every time he has hosed me over. I might need a new job. "Tough poo poo" to your boss. If you are a business owner and have employees, part of running the business is dealing with HR stuff. If you don't want to personally deal with it, hire or contract an HR person. Just because you don't want to deal with it doesn't mean it's okay to poo poo all over your employees. Try screwing the IRS because you "hate dealing with tax stuff" and see how far that excuse takes you. I agree with the other posters, it's time to start looking for a new job.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:15
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Happiness Commando posted:My boss made some changes to our healthcare policy, and I found out when Kaiser sent me an email "congratulations on your new policy!". I feel somewhere between kind of pissed and really pissed, because the new plan covers less and I will incur more costs on not only the regular preventive care that is part of being a healthy, responsible adult, and also the stuff I haven't taken care of - like physical therapy, a prescription refill, etc. - because why would my health benefits be changed without notice? Yeah everyone else has already nailed it: Get a new job. I think you're fully justified in just up and leaving without notice in this case. If your boss asks why tell him you hate dealing with people who hate dealing with hr stuff.
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Nov 19, 2015 15:02
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After nearly 6 months of being unemployed, I finally received a disappointing offer of (target salary -20k). I called another company that had made me wait about a month after the interview, and they offered (target salary - 7k), with great benefits worth about 10-15k. The second company knows the first one's number. I was hoping to get at least (target salary - 5k) as base. They already shot down my suggestion of tuition reimbursement for the MBA I completed earlier this year. Second company has pretty well defined salary bands for every position, so there might not be much wiggle room. Do I have any negotiation leverage here? Edit: Blinky I'm jealous of your job market rouliroul fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 21:52
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rouliroul posted:After nearly 6 months of being unemployed, I finally received a disappointing offer of (target salary -20k). I called another company that had made me wait about a month after the interview, and they offered (target salary - 7k), with great benefits worth about 10-15k. The second company knows the first one's number. I was hoping to get at least (target salary - 5k) as base. They already shot down my suggestion of tuition reimbursement for the MBA I completed earlier this year. Second company has pretty well defined salary bands for every position, so there might not be much wiggle room. Do I have any negotiation leverage here? rouliroul posted:Edit: Blinky I'm jealous of your job market
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Nov 20, 2015 23:56
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I also just received an offer from a 3rd company at (target - 12k), 5k bonus and pretty good benefits.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:30
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Blinky2099 posted:It sounds like the only negotiation you made was asking for tuition reimbursement. Can't you just ask for (target salary)? Or say "offer is interesting but i'll accept immediately if you can do (target, or target - 3k, or target -5k, whatever you think you can get away with). I did give a range of target to target +5k at the end of the interview
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Nov 21, 2015 01:32
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rouliroul posted:I did give a range of target to target +5k at the end of the interview And they came in under your target (probably expecting you to negotiate) with their offer. I'd ask for your target and see what comes back. If they don't move, then they don't move, but you should definitely counter with what you want, especially given you gave them a target range with your target at the bottom.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:39
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Spent many hours preparing and rehearsing, only for them not to budge during the call. Then I folded like a lawn chair 1 hour later and accepted the initial offer. Oh well.
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Nov 23, 2015 21:06
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rouliroul posted:Spent many hours preparing and rehearsing, only for them not to budge during the call. Then I folded like a lawn chair 1 hour later and accepted the initial offer. Oh well. Then they weren't going to budge, that's it. If you hadn't spent the time rehearsing and planning then you'd always have the doubt you could have got more if you're prepared. You got the best result you could have hoped for.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:52
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rouliroul posted:Spent many hours preparing and rehearsing, only for them not to budge during the call. Then I folded like a lawn chair 1 hour later and accepted the initial offer. Oh well.
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Nov 25, 2015 01:47
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Considering all offers were under your target, and two of them significantly (I assume), and the highest one wouldn't budge, perhaps your expectations weren't inline with the market for your job? If that is the case then sucks about the expectations but you did good finding the best offer.
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Nov 25, 2015 02:11
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swenblack posted:It sucks negotiating from being unemployed. It's incredibly difficult to mask that weak of a position. Despite this, you got three offers, so you're probably pretty awesome. Don't beat yourself up over this. If you like to be risky you could always claim somebody else is offering x salary
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Nov 25, 2015 21:25
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