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Panzeh posted:I have similar opinions about DW- all the stuff under the hood doesn't come out to much. There are a zillion resources but an hour into the game you can get anything you need so there's really no point in having a zillion resources. I like Star Ruler 2- but that game has ship design and I don't care for that aspect of space 4x games. I'm reallly sick of designing ships and the terrible things that come with that decision(Hi GalCiv3). Ok, so nobody does it good then. Automated micromanagement is a funny one, HOI3 style literally just does what the player does but much worse is terrible, I think we can agree on that. But CK2 style feudalism (which is a form of automated micromanagement) works pretty well in my opinion. If paradox can take that experience and apply it in a plausible fashion to the space genre then we could finally have a 4x that represents the inevitable issues of a galaxy spanning empire in a fun and engaging fashion.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:02
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Pharnakes posted:Ok, so nobody does it good then. Automated micromanagement is a funny one, HOI3 style literally just does what the player does but much worse is terrible, I think we can agree on that. But CK2 style feudalism (which is a form of automated micromanagement) works pretty well in my opinion. If paradox can take that experience and apply it in a plausible fashion to the space genre then we could finally have a 4x that represents the inevitable issues of a galaxy spanning empire in a fun and engaging fashion. I think the key thing to note about CK2 feudalism is that your CORE is always under your direct control. In HoI3, automation takes over critical aspects of your country, which makes it enormously frustrating when it fucks up. In CK2, though, the "automated" sections are largely stuff which is nice to have but which doesn't represent the real center of your power - your personal demesne, which you can always personally manage. Automation gently caress-ups don't bother you that much when it's MOSTLY stuff you don't really care about as badly. In the context of space, the idea of the rich, developed, and centralized "core worlds" dealing with the resentment of relatively underdeveloped, exploited, and independent-minded "frontier worlds" is a pretty old trope that the player can slot into quite readily. Do you maintain an iron grip on internal power by deliberately keeping the frontier weak, or are you willing to cede rights and political power in exchange for the frontier worlds being richer and more capable of contributing to the union?
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Nov 27, 2015 13:14
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I've watched a few videos on Distant Worlds. It actually looks pretty cool, but the complexity and UI also just makes me wonder if the game is going to open my space inventory.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:19
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DW is great but once you figure everything out you start to notice the game's shortcomings, mainly the AI and everything Wiz mentioned. It used to be you could also design escorts and destroyers that were almost completely unkillable due to their speed and the fact they escape at 50% shields. This got interesting because pirates use ship designs from escorts/destroyers/cruisers currently being used by empires in the game, meaning you could find yourself being attacked by pirates flying unkillable ships. Having an empire spanning 20+ colonies is a real headache and you have to start automating or you go insane. But then try doing anything militarily through automation and you see how weak the AI is. If you want to manually invade another empire, have fun going after their 100+ colonies one by one. The best way to play IMO is to set habitable planets to rare and keep the galaxy size reasonable.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:39
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Panzeh posted:I have similar opinions about DW- all the stuff under the hood doesn't come out to much. There are a zillion resources but an hour into the game you can get anything you need so there's really no point in having a zillion resources. I feel the same whenever I see people tout it as the most amazing 4x ever. Nothing you do really matters, and you spend most of the time watching the game play itself. You're never short on resources (or if you are you don't really notice because of the UI), your colonies don't really matter, research just kinda happens and requires no meaningful choices. The ideas behind it are nice enough, but the implementation just feels so uninspired.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:40
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Distant Worlds' graphics look both uninteresting and overwhelming, not a good combination. To respond to an earlier topic, I feel like I could only engage with a Ship Designer if it was in a franchise I really liked. Galactic Civilizations II was pretty meh, but put me in charge of Utopia Planitia and I will design every single utility craft the Federation could ever need.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:44
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Also to think of the CK2 automation is an actual gameplay element which you interact with and influence and have to "fight" to make it do what you want. It isn't supposed to be a fire-forget solution.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:45
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Groogy posted:Also to think of the CK2 automation is an actual gameplay element which you interact with and influence and have to "fight" to make it do what you want. It isn't supposed to be a fire-forget solution. This is a good point when I think about it, but it can be kind of "fire and forget" since after you "get" the game, the vassal system becomes pretty flowcharty (provided you're not RPing, obviously). Granted it does spice up a bit if you're playing Muslims or Hordes and such with extra territory considerations beyond "don't put your ambitious brother in charge of your empire's most powerful kingdom, you fool!" E: vvvvv Sounds like it's working as intended to me! Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 13:52
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Just catching up on the thread so this is a few days old butAgean90 posted:So what's the most "wait what" level bug you guys have found so far along with every other pop, on every other inhabited planet in the galaxy  (other players could emancipate their pops though so no harm no foul aside from some negative happiness modifiers)
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Nov 27, 2015 14:04
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Pharnakes posted:Ok, so nobody does it good then. Automated micromanagement is a funny one, HOI3 style literally just does what the player does but much worse is terrible, I think we can agree on that. But CK2 style feudalism (which is a form of automated micromanagement) works pretty well in my opinion. If paradox can take that experience and apply it in a plausible fashion to the space genre then we could finally have a 4x that represents the inevitable issues of a galaxy spanning empire in a fun and engaging fashion. The thing about automation of armies in HOI3 is that it's a balancing act between the fact that the AI doesn't really go any deeper than 'attack here if you can win' (but it still understands the odds better than the player because of the lack of info he gets), and that that's mitigated by the fact that it can issue new orders to a unit instantly when it runs out its order delay, whereas if the player wants to keep his armies rolling he literally needs to pause the game every hour and check every single division for ones that need new orders. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 27, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 14:07
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Jokes aside, given that it is on sale, is there anything going for HOI3 vs Darkest Hour? I understand that people often say not to commit onto HOI3 but is there really nothing that the game does well? Edit: Note that I already own DH.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:30
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SkySteak posted:Jokes aside, given that it is on sale, is there anything going for HOI3 vs Darkest Hour? I understand that people often say not to commit onto HOI3 but is there really nothing that the game does well? The custom scenario thing in TFH was pretty cool, and I hope it comes back in 4.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:44
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SkySteak posted:Jokes aside, given that it is on sale, is there anything going for HOI3 vs Darkest Hour? I understand that people often say not to commit onto HOI3 but is there really nothing that the game does well? I found the nations-in-exile interesting, even if they were completely useless and it was impossible (or at least I couldn't find a way) for them to liberate themselves so they were no longer considered in exile, even if they somehow managed to recapture all of their original territory.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:50
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Groogy posted:Genocide is Paradox number 1 solution to most problems. Except in HOI, much to the chagrin of the fabulous posters on the Paradox forums. They have to mod that in manually, you know, to be historically accurate.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:06
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SkySteak posted:Jokes aside, given that it is on sale, is there anything going for HOI3 vs Darkest Hour? I understand that people often say not to commit onto HOI3 but is there really nothing that the game does well? There's plenty of cool mechanics in HOI3, it's just the experience of organising a military and impenetrable supply mechanics that put me off. Some good things: Graphics and modern OS support are better in HOI3. Aircraft carriers have actual planes that are modelled rather than just being fast battleships with 200km-ranged guns. DH's naval simulation is utter garbage. That said, you can actually play DH instead of having to hand off half the game to AIs who'll do a poor job, which negates those above.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:13
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Online leaderboard for Eu4 confirmed to be secret tester tryouts.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:08
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What do you guys find you have to hand off to the AI in hoi3? The complaints against that game are so insanely overblown. The OOB thing is somewhat valid but fixing it or at least the bits that matter doesn't take very long. I think it comes from it just not being what people expect or want from a paradox game.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:25
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It should have been a turn based hex game on the same scale. Then things would be kind of manageable, it just doesn't fit into a real time game in my opinion.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:50
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HoI4 DD https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-35th-development-diary-27th-of-november-2015.892871/ About Germany and their interesting focus trees
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Nov 27, 2015 19:57
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Star posted:HoI4 DD https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-35th-development-diary-27th-of-november-2015.892871/ About Germany and their interesting focus trees Oh man, that almost makes me want to play as Germany. Too bad about the whole holocaust thing. And no, I can't just "ignore that".
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Nov 27, 2015 20:01
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Oh man, that almost makes me want to play as Germany. Too bad about the whole holocaust thing. You can change the occupation policy to "gentle" and it's like the Holocaust didn't happen  Just good times invading the Soviets with Anime Hitler
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Nov 27, 2015 20:03
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Oh man, that almost makes me want to play as Germany. Too bad about the whole holocaust thing. Nice post and name combo
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Nov 27, 2015 20:09
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IncredibleIgloo posted:Except in HOI, much to the chagrin of the fabulous posters on the Paradox forums. They have to mod that in manually, you know, to be historically accurate. Finally someone challenges the ZOG propaganda machine that says that the so called Genocide happened.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:26
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Germany EU/Teddy Bear Assault-path is certainly gonna get some mileage. Teaming up with China could be interesting too, but I get the feeling that some of these choices are going to feel a little barebones (until the modders/DLC get to it). The EUIV dev diary was cool too, man I'd love to have one Tile that is just this mega-continent of stuff and then there's just one huge Aztec Empire waiting for the Europeans there, "we've picked up some strange new plague my liege!" *post-apocalyptic Europe scenario with Sunset Invasion II: Sunset Harder activated* 
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Nov 27, 2015 21:01
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Looking forward to making Atlantis my protectorate.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:06
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Star posted:Nice post and name combo Thank Franco for that.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:16
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Thank Franco for that. A new view of German-Spanish relations
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Nov 27, 2015 21:23
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The national focus system looks like a lot of fun.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:26
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uPen posted:The national focus system looks like a lot of fun.  I'm gonna have a ton of fun trying out different scenarios, most will involve USA. I wonder if minor powers like Ireland will have national focuses? If only because they're so close to Great Britain.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:28
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National Focuses haven't completely replaced scripted events, right? Stuff like elections etc.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:30
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Alikchi posted:National Focuses haven't completely replaced scripted events, right? Stuff like elections etc. I think elections are their own mechanic now.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:31
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I wonder if minor powers like Ireland will have national focuses? If only because they're so close to Great Britain. Unique focuses for minors sounds like good dlc content.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:33
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uPen posted:Unique focuses for minors sounds like good dlc content. Vargas and Perón...
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Nov 27, 2015 21:43
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Danzig for Slovakia  fakeedit: oh i am an idiot. trade Danzig for Slovakia. I somehow read it as "We demand you give Danzig to Slovakia!"
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Nov 27, 2015 21:52
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uPen posted:Unique focuses for minors sounds like good dlc content. I'll bet unique focuses will be added in patch updates if it's anything like EUIV.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:56
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Focuses look really cool, although I still don't entirely comprehend how they'll play out with everyone else. So if you decide to go for the "Ally China" focus for example, you hit certain pre-reqs and then you auto-ally them? Even if their own focuses are pointed elsewhere?
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Nov 27, 2015 22:01
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Speaking of WW2 tangents, how the hell do you actually play Canada in DH-Kaiserreich? I'm throwing most of my rather light IC away into the carrier/heavy cruiser combo so I can not get murdered by Britain for once, but that leaves me relatively dry. Certainly not enough IC to go around to get an army rolling, though it's only '38. I got lucky and actually got the Bill to pass through the house, but in return I'm cursed with pretty much every minor but Ukraine that can flipping syndies, so it looks like I'm going to end up losing. (Germany needs to stand tall for a little bit, at least...) edit: CSA won the civil war, Iceland ended up Syndie. What the gently caress. Fuligin posted:Focuses look really cool, although I still don't entirely comprehend how they'll play out with everyone else. So if you decide to go for the "Ally China" focus for example, you hit certain pre-reqs and then you auto-ally them? Even if their own focuses are pointed elsewhere? Probably. This is all for the major powers after all, which China sadly isn't. Gamerofthegame fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 27, 2015 22:07
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OK, for China maybe, but what about all the befriend other great powers choices, of which there are plenty? Presumably it'll just work in single player, but I'm curious how it will be handled in MP.
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Nov 27, 2015 22:10
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Fuligin posted:Focuses look really cool, although I still don't entirely comprehend how they'll play out with everyone else. So if you decide to go for the "Ally China" focus for example, you hit certain pre-reqs and then you auto-ally them? Even if their own focuses are pointed elsewhere? I'm guessing it will press things in that direction without making them happen 100% of the time. Presumably if you go for Befriend USSR for instance that tells the USSR AI "hey, Germany is willing to ally us" and then the USSR AI might consider the option to ally Germany more seriously when it gets to it. Also, I believe you mean focii.
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Nov 27, 2015 22:40
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It's Focuses or Foci, actually.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:01
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