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Eh, I wouldn't say Part 4 is hugely influenced by Dio. Sure, he put parts of it into motion (mostly Okuyasu's dad) but the reasons behind Kira's actions have nothing at all to do with him.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:25
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Can't the arrow shenanigans be lead back to Dio?
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Nov 28, 2015 01:41
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Butt Ghost posted:Can't the arrow shenanigans be lead back to Dio? I guess, but Diavolo's the one who found the stuff in the first place (right?). I guess you can assume some bad poo poo would have ended up going down no matter what, it just might not have involved the Joestars as much ultimately.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:45
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presumably the arrow stuff could/would happen regardless of DIO, since he wasn't responsible for making them or anything
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Nov 28, 2015 01:45
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DIO is responsible for Mr. Nijimura becoming a blob-monster, which led to Keicho obtaining a bow and arrow (I think from Enyaba?) and standifying many people in the pursuit of someone who could kill Mr. Nijimura, so the first half's pretty much indirectly DIO's fault. The second half, not as much I don't think unless Old Man Kira was inspired by DIO somehow to get his own arrow.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:51
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Wasn't DIO responsible for Josuke getting Crazy Diamond? Since he got his stand along with the rest of the joestars.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:52
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Dio's presence in Part 4 is very incidental, but I'd almost say that strengthens the case being made. Dio's thoughtless, selfish actions have resulted in problems for people he's never even met in a country he's never been to years after Dio himself is dead and gone. Kira might've always been a little bit messed up, but it was Dio selling his dad the arrow that allowed him to become truly terrible and untouchable. That Kira shares no personal connection with Dio is immaterial; without Dio, Kira would've killed a handful of people at best before likely being caught and sent away to prison. One of the reasons Dio remains my favorite villain is because of how his presence permeates the world of the story. Even when he's holed up in Egypt, it feels like he's everywhere. Our heroes can take two steps without running into somebody on the payroll, some of whom would rather kill themselves than disappoint their master. He's a corrupting, corrosive influence who poisons everything he touches, and the fact that his return to the surface was facilitated by Jonathan's body is both insulting and depraved. Coming into Part 3 fresh off of Part 1 (and 2), knowing the depth of Dio's evil and the grace of Jonathan's goodness, it's almost unholy to think Dio used Jonathan to survive all those years. Dio is all but literally the devil, and he must be stopped at any cost. Consequently, this is also why I think Part 3 still works despite Dio being off-screen for the majority of it. He doesn't need to be physical present because his spiritual presence is crushing.
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Nov 28, 2015 02:06
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ChaosArgate posted:DIO is responsible for Mr. Nijimura becoming a blob-monster, which led to Keicho obtaining a bow and arrow (I think from Enyaba?) and standifying many people in the pursuit of someone who could kill Mr. Nijimura, so the first half's pretty much indirectly DIO's fault. The second half, not as much I don't think unless Old Man Kira was inspired by DIO somehow to get his own arrow. There are Six known arrows all of which were acquired by Diavolo. Who sold all but one of them to Enya. One was used by Enya to awaken DIO (and by extension the Joestar Bloodline at the time) and a deal of his henchmen's stands. Another was Given to the Nijimura father by Enya. Enya also gave one to Kira Sr. Polneraff acquired one of DIO's at some point. And Diavolo gave his Arrow to Polpo to create stand users out of recruits. 6th one is an unkown other then the fact that Enya owned it.
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Nov 28, 2015 02:27
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Bad Seafood posted:Consequently, this is also why I think Part 3 still works despite Dio being off-screen for the majority of it. He doesn't need to be physical present because his spiritual presence is crushing. Literally so, for poor Holly. You know it never really hit me until now, Dio swapping out all those heads on animals, and he ended up using that practice to put his vampire head on Jonathan's human body.
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Nov 28, 2015 02:27
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Dio's influence on Part 5 is pretty tenuous as well, Diavolo just sells some arrows to Enya and he sired Giorno, but other than that he's pretty uninvolved there too.
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Nov 28, 2015 02:36
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Baal posted:Dio's influence on Part 5 is pretty tenuous as well, Diavolo just sells some arrows to Enya and he sired Giorno, but other than that he's pretty uninvolved there too. Is being Giorno's dad not good enough for you?
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Nov 28, 2015 02:59
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We all know the important part of Part 5 is Bruno, though.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:00
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Imagine Enya not having Dio to give the arrows to, in the search of the chosen masters she finally finds someone that invokes the suit of The World, Yoshikage Kira or Diavolo i dunno Edit: Also the whole thing is a sitcom because Kira refuses to do anything and his dad keeps hitting on Enya
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Nov 28, 2015 03:03
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Having a hard time imagining Enya being particularly interested in Kira Yoshikahe, a man with neither aspiration nor vision. Diavolo, maybe.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:06
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Part 2 has the weakest connection to Dio, though. Everything else is hugely influenced by Dio's actions, until the reboot. I'd say that Dio's influence on Joseph's nuclear family contributed massively to Part 2.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:11
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Is being Giorno's dad not good enough for you? Considering he did not influence Giorno or anyone in Part 5 at all, no
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Nov 28, 2015 03:19
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Baal posted:Considering he did not influence Giorno or anyone in Part 5 at all, no I kept waiting for Giorno's heritage to mean anything but all he did was WRYYYY once or twice and that was it. It's like there was going to be a point to the revelation and then Araki realized that Bruno was more interesting and ran with him instead.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:40
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It was a good choice too because Bruno rocked the loving house
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Nov 28, 2015 03:44
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Baal posted:Considering he did not influence Giorno or anyone in Part 5 at all, no Giorno's intended to be dio-esque in terms of his charisma but with focus on being not an rear end in a top hat I thought, it's just that the bad translation misses out on making him come off as charismatic and stuff then again I don't think all of the parts are ever influenced by dio, they just have things connecting them back to dio in some way with the exception of part 8
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Nov 28, 2015 04:05
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Yes Kite, I know about the Giorno and Dio stuff already
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Nov 28, 2015 04:09
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Baal posted:Yes Kite, I know about the Giorno and Dio stuff already Then dont say silly stuff like that baal
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Nov 28, 2015 04:42
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No, I think I'll say whatever I want Part 1 is... Very good when you watch the anime dubbed and it gets worse the further you go back in time
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Nov 28, 2015 04:49
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Frankly I just didn't find Giorno's version of compelling charisma to be very interesting on its own let alone compared to what it meant when Dio had people under his sway. e: and none of that changes that Bruno's the interesting thing in part 5.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:36
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Bruno and narancia and mista are cool
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Nov 28, 2015 05:46
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i look forward to rereading arc 5 when the retranslation is done. not because i think it'll magically make it the best arc out of them all, but i'm sure it'll at least be a more enjoyable read.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:48
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FirstAidKite posted:Bruno and narancia and mista are cool I agree
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Nov 28, 2015 05:48
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i look forward to rereading arc 5 when the retranslation is done. not because i think it'll magically make it the best arc out of them all, but i'm sure it'll at least be a more enjoyable read. i'll just watch the anime instead
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Nov 28, 2015 05:49
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Wannabeeeeeeeee readin' part 5 with a good translation.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:50
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How far along is the part 5 retranslation?
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Nov 28, 2015 06:48
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They're still in the train Incidentally it's one of the best arcs of part 5 so I'm a little annoyed that the pace seems to have slowed down a bit
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Nov 28, 2015 07:14
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I never really liked the team dynamic in part 5 since for a large part of it you have two people preparing to betray them all anyway, so it feels like a charade. Also I hate Mista. By the end I did start to like them, but then they had to go and kill Narancia, the one I actually started to like as a character. Araki always kills off the guys I like most.
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Nov 28, 2015 07:19
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Momomo posted:Araki always kills off the guys I like most. Yep. I like it that I'm at a point where I just deliberately try not to like characters too much now cuz they're just gonna die. I wonder what made him ultimately decide to keep Okuyasu, honestly. Must have been in a really, really good mood that day. Narancia's death is one that actually kind of pisses me off more than most but I legit don't know if it's translation or if it really is just a "whoopsie daisy, they're dead, anyway," type deal.
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Nov 28, 2015 07:59
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Hot Pants' death is the worst because it's just unceremonious. She just dies in a single double spread and is never brought up again, other than her Cream Starter. She deserved a bit more attention even if she's not Diego levels of importance.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:02
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It's a death that just happens and it's absolutely stupid and bullshit. That entire ending sequence is a clusterfuck of bullshit that is not justified by better dialogue. Like the second they enter the Coliseum Part 5 becomes a loving mess.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:03
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at least giorno escaped the joestar family curse on a technicality 
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Nov 28, 2015 09:06
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vento aureo's ending sequence really leaves a lot to be desired
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Nov 28, 2015 09:07
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Silver Chariot Requiem is so loving cool and the chapter that ends with him slowly walking towards the coliseum exit is one of the greatest ends to a chapter ever and it hyped me up so ficking much and then became one of the messiest stands in the loving series and made me cry.
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Nov 28, 2015 09:09
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There is a fuckton of poo poo happening all at once and a lot of it is so underdeveloped that it just becomes even more confusing. I did like the way they "beat" silver chariot requiem though, though I had to reread it to figure out what happened. It was neat realizing that it was just a shadow cast by some light that exists behind everybody's head or however that worked out
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Nov 28, 2015 09:10
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remember when aliens or something started coming out of people except wait no they aren't like a page or two later and no one brings this up ever again
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Nov 28, 2015 09:10
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A stand is a representation of a person's soul, and a requiem stand allows a person to manipulate another person's soul, or that's how I remember it being explained, so silver chariot requiem has the ability to move other peoples' souls from one body to another, but for some reason this causes non-stand users to start producing demons from another dimension, and the stand users have stronger stands while their bodies are swapped, and mista doesnt have good hygiene
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Nov 28, 2015 09:13
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