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Nuclear War posted:Destroyermen Also, Grunts by Mary Gentle (more or less).
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Nov 28, 2015 14:57
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Elves 360 Boys At rifle noscoping uruk-SS Ferdinants from 3 km away by hitting them through the optics.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:23
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JcDent posted:Elves 360 Boys At rifle noscoping uruk-SS Ferdinants from 3 km away by hitting them through the optics. I think you guys want this thread for that. 
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Nov 28, 2015 17:25
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Five wars the United States should not have fought
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Nov 28, 2015 19:35
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What in god's name is the difference between necessity and choice in the context of this article? 
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Nov 28, 2015 21:02
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why isn't the mexican american war on this list, we were total douchebags getting into that conflict and recognized as such by protestors at the time
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Nov 28, 2015 21:05
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HEY GAL posted:why isn't the mexican american war on this list, we were total douchebags getting into that conflict and recognized as such by protestors at the time Seriously, I wondered this too.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:21
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Hmm both the mexican american war and the spanish american war, both wars where the US gained a large amount of territory by starting them on flimsy pretenses, arnt on there. HOW STRANGE
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Nov 28, 2015 21:22
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HEY GAL posted:why isn't the mexican american war on this list, we were total douchebags getting into that conflict and recognized as such by protestors at the time That article isn't denouncing war mongering, it seems to be denouncing wars that we don't get anything out of it. We got lots of good stuff out of the Mexican American war. And Texas, too.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:24
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100 Years Ago In Mesopotamia, General Townshend has now decided, in the style of Hollywood, to remake an old classic. His is the Siege of Chitral Fort back in 1895; now he's going to pull his men back to Kut and play at being the anvil so someone else can be the hammer. In more practical news, his retreat is being delayed because one of his boats is stuck fast on a sandbank. Fourth Isonzo is still a thing that's happening; the weather on Gallipoli turns to snow and freezes some men to death, still in their summer uniforms (with an update from one Lieutenant Clement Attlee); and Flora Sandes nearly comes to a sticky end.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:25
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sullat posted:That article isn't denouncing war mongering, it seems to be denouncing wars that we don't get anything out of it. We got lots of good stuff out of the Mexican American war. And Texas, too. The Black Hills War is a weird inclusion and the only rationale I can think for it is as a token "war mongering bad" example but it was such a tiny conflict and the US benefited from it anyway. Lakota and Cheyenne alliance is quite powerful and a serious threat to further western expansion and settlement After a bunch of conflict they're granted the Great Sioux Reservation by treaty, which is the western half of what is now South Dakota, including the Black Hills (their traditional wintering grounds and the most sacred location in their religions). When gold is discovered in the Black Hills there's a rush of white settlers (illegally) into the Native territories. Tribes retaliate, Custer is sent in with Seventh Cav and they get owned at Little Bighorn. Also worth noting a factual inaccuracy, the US took control of the western (not eastern) half of SD. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 21:35
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HEY GAL posted:why isn't the mexican american war on this list, we were total douchebags getting into that conflict and recognized as such by protestors at the time Well now I want to hear about this. Pellisworth posted:Tribes retaliate, Custer is sent in with Seventh Cav and they get owned at Little Bighorn. All I know about Custer and Little Bighorn comes via Little Big Man. Custer getting killed is a stand up and cheer moment.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:29
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Something tells me the Black Hills War is only on there because they felt they need to recognize that the genocide of the Native Americans was A Bad Thing, but they didn't feel like talking about it at all.
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Nov 28, 2015 23:10
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Something tells me the Black Hills War is only on there because they felt they need to recognize that the genocide of the Native Americans was A Bad Thing, but they didn't feel like talking about it at all. Yup pretty much. Broke some treaties and invaded to protect illegal white settlers, but they beat us at Little Bighorn so let's call it even, eh?
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Nov 28, 2015 23:17
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Pellisworth posted:Yup pretty much. Black hills war - massacre of white people, done. Next point...
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Nov 29, 2015 00:43
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Nebakenezzer posted:Well now I want to hear about this. Hear about what? How the US were douchebags, or about the protests against the war? I don't think there were any rallies like you'd see during Vietnam or 2nd Iraq, but people certainly criticized Polk in writing.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:12
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Agean90 posted:Hmm both the mexican american war and the spanish american war, both wars where the US gained a large amount of territory by starting them on flimsy pretenses, arnt on there. HOW STRANGE Yeah. The good news is that if Texas ever gets retaken by the mexicans we can just use Imperial Reconquest CB 
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Nov 29, 2015 01:27
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i will start a war to get mexico to take it back please anyway, nebuchanezzar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War#Opposition_to_the_war
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Nov 29, 2015 01:37
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Holy poo poo they directed cannon fire on a church. They really hated Papists.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:13
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sullat posted:That article isn't denouncing war mongering, it seems to be denouncing wars that we don't get anything out of it. We got lots of good stuff out of the Mexican American war. And Texas, too. Seems to me like it wasn't worth it then.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:15
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I read somewhere about souvenir taking of both sides was pretty gruesome. Like its hard to defend taking scalps and both sides generally did it. The one that got me is troopers specifically removing scrotums to turn into tobacco pouches. Think I read it in that big ol time life brown compendium on the Wild West. Always kinda stuck with me. What the gently caress.
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Nov 29, 2015 04:57
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LingcodKilla posted:I read somewhere about souvenir taking of both sides was pretty gruesome. Like its hard to defend taking scalps and both sides generally did it. The one that got me is troopers specifically removing scrotums to turn into tobacco pouches. Not sure if you're referencing the Mexican-American or Great Sioux Wars (I suspect the former), but scalping was definitely a thing among Plains Indians. It's worthwhile to remember that European settlement of the American West was a gradual process and the native tribes were massively influenced by it. By the time you get to the Great Sioux War and Custer's last stand at Little Bighorn, most of the Lakota are settled on reservations or at least partially dependent on federal rations, the elements you have still actively resisting are a minority traditionalist faction. The Lakota, perhaps the most iconic and (in)famous of the plains tribes that violently resisted conquest, were originally much more sedentary and lived somewhere around Minnesota prior to European contact. Then they got horses in the 18th century, and European westward expansion forced them mostly across the Missouri and into a nomadic horse-based culture. Opposite the fate of most Native American tribes, the Lakota Sioux actually grew rapidly in population and became very powerful, leading to conflict with settlers. A Lakota-Cheyenne alliance defeats the US in the Red Cloud (Bozeman) War (1866-1868) and establishes by treaty the Great Sioux Reservation, which was supposed to be an independent territory for Native Americans who did not want to settle on the existing reservations. It's worth noting at this point that in the grand scheme of things these are small-scale frontier conflicts involving hundreds to several thousands of combatants on each side and lots of raiding and ambush warfare. Not much later, gold was discovered in the Black Hills of western South Dakota, traditionally the wintering grounds of the Lakota and a sacred location--in their mythology, the first man and woman emerged from a cave there. In violation of treaty agreements there was a huge gold rush (the US federal government could not give less of a gently caress), settlers come into violent contact with the native inhabitants of the Black Hills and Great Sioux Reservation. Eventually Custer and the 7th Cav is sent in as part of the Great Sioux War (1876-1877) and they get their asses handed to them, though the Lakota alliance eventually disintegrates and they're settled on reservations. Edit: I guess my amateur historian takeaway is that the Lakota-Cheyenne alliance won the battles but lost the wars in the sense that the continuous European settlement and devastation of bison herds meant their traditional way of life was simply untenable. So they were forced into surrender and settlement on reservations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_bison#Hunting The US military actively encouraged hunting of bison as a means to force plains indians into surrender. I have a friend who did his thesis on bison population genetics and the ballpark guess is about 50 million bison prior to the Civil War, down to about 10% of that following settlement during and after, and then 1% after the Sioux Wars and military encouragement of harvesting. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 05:20
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Pellisworth posted:Not sure if you're referencing the Mexican-American or Great Sioux Wars (I suspect the former), but scalping was definitely a thing among Plains Indians. Was in reference to plains warfare. Not like the Natives were any better with torture and disfigurement totally a thing to do with captives. Humans suck. Addddd I did a google search on it... gently caress.
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Nov 29, 2015 05:41
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LingcodKilla posted:Addddd I did a google search on it... gently caress. Scalping and related torture/disfigurement or bison hunting? The US gov't and military actively encouraged extermination of bison herds to weaken (genocide lol) the plains tribes. Edit: also worth pointing out that this isn't remotely the worst poo poo the US has done to Native Americans. Just more recent stuff with some fairly successful resistance and a lot of cultural iconography in Westerns and such. Edit2: and since we're on the topic, the French were way cooler toward Indians than after the Louisiana Purchase though the Plains tribes were still fiercely independent. As a bit of trivia, there is a Lakota language slur for mixed-race persons (Lakota and European blood) that literally means "translator" Many French traders would intentionally marry Native wives in order to learn the language and produce bilingual offspring, thus mixed-race = translators. And now it's a slur, woohoo 'Murica it's something containing ska "white" but I'm unsure of the transliteration. ceska, I think. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 05:45
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PittTheElder posted:Something tells me the Black Hills War is only on there because they felt they need to recognize that the genocide of the Native Americans was A Bad Thing, but they didn't feel like talking about it at all. I have a little illustrated coffee table book full of first hand accounts of the Indian Wars from the Indian perspective. it's really  Sarah Winnemucca posted:1883: On the Caues of Warfare Between Paiutes and Whites Chief Eskiminzin posted:1871: On the Massacre of his People by the Citizens of Tucson Including Two Wives and Five Children
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Nov 29, 2015 05:56
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Ensign Expendable posted:That's supposed to be a plash-palatka (raincoat-tent) but holy poo poo is it poorly modeled. Also the textures are missing Guards badges. I think instead of bothering with any research they gave regular infantry PTRDs and called it a day. So it's just poorly modelled? Oh, god, I'm so diappointed. The Coh2 campaign is an abomination, but when you're in game and killing Nazis, these guys were pretty badass. There goes next year's Halloween costume I guess.
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Nov 29, 2015 05:57
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Well the Mexican-American war did produce one of the best flag used by the US so there is that.
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Nov 29, 2015 05:58
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LingcodKilla posted:I read somewhere about souvenir taking of both sides was pretty gruesome. Like its hard to defend taking scalps and both sides generally did it. The one that got me is troopers specifically removing scrotums to turn into tobacco pouches. Maybe it was a brokeback mountain thing but with some really macabre cowboys.
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Nov 29, 2015 06:04
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LingcodKilla posted:Was in reference to plains warfare. Not like the Natives were any better with torture and disfigurement totally a thing to do with captives. White Americans adopted the custom of scalping in the 17th century and vigorously maintained the tradition into the late 19th. California was still paying bounties for indian scalps in the 1860s. Corn wasn't the only things whites adopted from the Indians. edit: Here's a quote from Historian James Rawls taken from the PBS American Experience Gold Rush Documentary: James Rawls posted:In the early days of the Gold Rush, from the very beginning, frustrated Anglo American miners banded together to form groups of essentially vigilante or volunteer militia groups. They were ad hoc organizations, and their stated objective was to exterminate the "red devils," to eliminate the obstacles that the native Californians had become in their minds. And their modus operandi was to attack native villages wherever they might find them in the vicinity of their mining activities, to eliminate their presence utterly, killing the men, the women, and the children. And this was considered to be a necessity. From the same documentary, quote:In the two decades after the discovery of gold, 120,000 Indians, four-fifths of California's Native population, would be wiped out -- most by starvation or disease, others at the murderous hands of whites. Why was starvation one of the leading causes of death? Well when you're fleeing vicious killers it's hard to feed yourself, which in turns leaves you more vulnerable to disease. Squalid fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 06:06
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The Lakota were absolutely, enthusiastically 100% into taking war captives and exchanging them for goods (horses, guns, food). It was way better to get some wealth, honor, and respect than to kill some white dude. European settlers and the US government had a somewhat different approach. Edit Squalid posted:Why was starvation one of the leading causes of death? Well when you're fleeing vicious killers it's hard to feed yourself, which in turns leaves you more vulnerable to disease. And not to belabor the point, but competition for and intentional over-harvesting of critical food supplies (like bison) by European settlers was a huge factor in the decline and increasing desperation of Native populations. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 06:11
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Phobophilia posted:Holy poo poo they directed cannon fire on a church. See also the San Patricios- Irish-American deserters who joined the Mexican army during the war.
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Nov 29, 2015 06:48
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I was looking at some old material from my grade 3 Canadian History curriculum and noticed it said that white settlers overhunted buffalo because they "didn't understand how important it was to the First Nations' way of life". Looking back, it seems pretty hosed up to teach a bunch of 8-year-olds about the history of Native American peoples without explaining, in an age-appropriate way, that much of their decline was due to genocide.
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Nov 29, 2015 09:42
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Chamale posted:I was looking at some old material from my grade 3 Canadian History curriculum and noticed it said that white settlers overhunted buffalo because they "didn't understand how important it was to the First Nations' way of life". Looking back, it seems pretty hosed up to teach a bunch of 8-year-olds about the history of Native American peoples without explaining, in an age-appropriate way, that much of their decline was due to genocide. 
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Nov 29, 2015 11:55
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HEY GAL posted:we were taught it was a two-sided war lol, but If you're talking about Cortes then kinda. Anything after that, though, 
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Nov 29, 2015 12:39
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yesterday i encountered a colonel named Hans Gaudenz von Wolkenstein
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Nov 29, 2015 13:37
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hahaha holy poo poo. I'm digging some old Danish village names at the moment. Turns out we have 5 villages named Lem (literally: "penis") 
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Nov 29, 2015 14:15
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are these people aware their names are bonkers do you think dodo von innhausen und zu knyphausen just one morning woke up all "wait a minute..."
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Nov 29, 2015 15:40
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HEY GAL posted:are these people aware their names are bonkers  i doubt it, when they can barely count to potato though i just made some knödels and i have to agree with the tardkaiser on that point
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Nov 29, 2015 16:08
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What, if anything, did tardkaiser have to say about knödels?
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Nov 29, 2015 16:11
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Hogge Wild posted:
very genetics you know, the great thing about mercenaries is you can usually be assured of their competence. dodo was apparently very good for the swedes during lützen
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Nov 29, 2015 16:14
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