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Actually I made that whole thing up. None of it was true but you took the bait. Sorry son but you been (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 28, 2015 17:17
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oldpainless posted:Actually I made that whole thing up. None of it was true but you took the bait. Sorry son but you been i figured as much based on the fact that you also said Weaver played Vasquez but i just like pointing out that Gorman's the dude from Hellbound who gets his brain sucked out
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Nov 28, 2015 17:21
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That is the opposite of a troll.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:27
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Interestingly enough, Burke's arc originally ends with Ripley finding him all cocooned. It's in a scene that was cut, but they reference it in the commentary. Ripley gives him a grenade. That's the explosion you hear when she's trying to escape with Newt. I feel like this completes his arc in a more meaningful way that's in line with my reading, but it being cut has a neat effect too - Burke simply evaporates into the horde, having succeeded in his quest to become more like them.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:34
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It's weird to realize that people who never got over Newt and Hicks's deaths from Alien 3 are now in charge of official additions to the franchise and working hard to undo said deaths. For instance, there's the retconned survival of Hicks in that awful Colonial Marines game.
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Nov 28, 2015 17:45
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Haha yesss that game is a travesty. And the DLC mission where you get to see the conspiracy/etc. about how Hicks survived is even more hilarious. Even Michael Biehn himself went on the record saying that game was bullshit and a super cynical production compared to when he worked on Blood Dragon which he had a ton of fun with and everyone was legit excited about having someone who was in these 80s movies contribute to the making of a totally rad 80s homage game. Though you can tell that really easily just through his voice acting in each.Hbomberguy posted:I feel like this completes his arc in a more meaningful way that's in line with my reading, but it being cut has a neat effect too - Burke simply evaporates into the horde, having succeeded in his quest to become more like them. I don't know if that was really his quest or if that even would really make him a worse person. You don't see them screwing each other over for a loving percentage. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 17:53
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I really need to play Blood Dragon.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:45
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a question for all of you: which was the better heavily anticipated early '90s sci-fi franchise sequel: Alien3 or Terminator 2? i mean, obviously it's Alien3 but i'm curious what y'all think.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:08
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Body Snatchers, by a country mile. (I'm sure that someone out there anticipated it a lot.) Hbomberguy posted:I agree - but he's only an outlier in the 'canonical' context of the wider Universe. I read the colony as an alternate way of looking at Earth itself. In this context, the 'system' is the Alien queen and her army of drones, with Burke being one viewpoint on this society. The alien planet is an alternate version of Earth (note that, in Aliens, it is consistently referred to as a planet and not a moon) - but it's specifically like Krypton or the homes of the various monsters in the Godzilla series. It's both prehistoric/primordial and yet serves as a warning of what fate could befall humanity. The alien dinosaurs were wiped out because they couldn't adapt. How can Earth survive? But then, Cameron includes a second, competing vision of Earth. The terraformation colony represents a utopian future - "building better worlds" imagery from Total Recall. So the conflict of the film is fundamentally the utopian vision getting corrupted by the evil aliens (and the greedy traitors who work with them). Note that the atmosphere processor works great, until Burke lets the aliens loose. Then it explodes because the stupid aliens crashed a plane into it, and the stupid queen just sits there laying eggs while the place burns down around her. The aliens might be smart enough to cut the power, but they're not smart enough to do much else. They're not a real threat. While the queen is a bad capitalist enemy, she is specifically a accelerationist type, deliberately hastening the apocalypse like Red Skull in Captain America. There's a nice, clear comparison there: Captain America soundly defeats the evil drone army, and wakes up 70 years later in present-day New York. He looks around at all glowing, neon dystopia and says "oh no." Likewise, the original ending of Army Of Darkness: Ash kills the baddies, and then gets frozen for a few hundred years. When he wakes up: "oh no." And isn't this effectively the case in Phantom Menace? Aliens doesn't have this. The solution is basically just liberal socialism, along the lines of Fury Road.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Body Snatchers, by a country mile. maybe more anticipated by Abel Ferrara fans than Body Snatchers Franchise fans, but regardless, a dope movie.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:04
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SMG Didn't you like Fury Road?
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Nov 28, 2015 21:05
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:SMG Didn't you like Fury Road? I liked it about as much as Aliens.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:25
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Baronjutter posted:That's a hell of a read of Avatar. It's not that far fetched. The way the movie intertwines the "natives in tune with nature" cliche with the planet's ecology being a literal computer that it's inhabitants jack into definitively recalls Kurzweil's spiritual machines.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:13
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Sockser posted:I really need to play Blood Dragon. Yes. Also, I'd be down for Alien 5: Blood Dragon.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:24
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Hbomberguy posted:I sorta disagree - I think there's a way of redeeming Aliens' themes by reading Burke as part of the system.... Aliens doesn't need to be 'redeemed'... you realize you can judge movies based on criteria other than how communist they are, right? SuperMechagodzilla posted:Body Snatchers, by a country mile. It's a remake/adaptation rather than a sequel, but I suppose this is where you tell us how it's actually a spiritual sequel to Enemy Mine or something.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:36
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lizardman posted:Aliens doesn't need to be 'redeemed'... you realize you can judge movies based on criteria other than how communist they are, right? That's a false question. I certainly can judge films by other criteria - but do not, because I am interested in truth. You have no reason to be afraid.
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Nov 28, 2015 23:06
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I judge movies by whether I liked them or not.
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Nov 28, 2015 23:31
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lizardman posted:It's a remake/adaptation rather than a sequel, but I suppose this is where you tell us how it's actually a spiritual sequel to Enemy Mine or something. I wish someone would make a spiritual sequel to Enemy Mine.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:01
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I wish someone would make a spiritual sequel to Enemy Mine. Here's your Predators sequel.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:57
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I would be down as hell for that.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:23
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oldpainless posted:I judge movies by whether I liked them or not. lizardman posted:Aliens doesn't need to be 'redeemed'... you realize you can judge movies based on criteria other than how communist they are, right? BTW, Predator is also a very good Alien film. AVP could have been the best movie ever made - it could have been a discussion of which is a better way of looking at the problems in the real world, concluding with a cool synthesis-creature comprised of their best thematic aspects. Instead it's about how humanity is doomed.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:30
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I thought it was about how you can survive in the Antarctic wearing only a t-shirt.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:39
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I think what lizardman is trying to say is that a movie isn't bad or not BECAUSE of those implications or themes, not that discussing them to begin with is something we shouldn't do. Good movies can still be fascist or racist or whatever.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:43
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For whose benefit are they saying that, though? Does lizardman think I judge movies based on how communist they are and then just throw them in the trash? I've gulag'd people for less.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:51
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I'm not sure what your first sentence is asking. For whose benefit are racist or fascist or communist movies being made?
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Nov 29, 2015 01:57
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*pushes glasses up nose anime-style* Movies are made for the benefit of the creators, the financiers and the audience, probably in that order
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Nov 29, 2015 02:03
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No I mean, why did lizardman feel the need to point out something very obvious? Who did they think didn't realise movies can be good even while saying bad things?
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Nov 29, 2015 02:11
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Ah, I see what you're asking now. I don't really have an answer to that.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:19
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Hbomberguy posted:No I mean, why did lizardman feel the need to point out something very obvious? Who did they think didn't realise movies can be good even while saying bad things? There's a pretty large movement in American culture that heavily values ideological purity over other qualities in art. I come from a background where this was true and it stunted my intellectual growth until well into my 20s. CineD is pretty sophisticated but this tendency still pops up in conversation with surprising regularity.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:39
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Ah - that's a decent point, my bad. I can probably come across as like that. I will try to write better in future.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:44
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The two themes I've always seen in Aliens are greed, and motherhood (Ripley as Mother and Queen as Mother) but perhaps I am not a good film watcher.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:02
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Hbomberguy posted:
Please do. I try to keep my posts at a quality level. A level of at least 9000
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Nov 29, 2015 03:51
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Hbomberguy posted:Interestingly enough, Burke's arc originally ends with Ripley finding him all cocooned. It's in a scene that was cut, but they reference it in the commentary. I'm just amazed that James Cameron felt it necessary to copy Alien to the point that he even copied its deleted scenes.
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Nov 29, 2015 04:20
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The subplot with Ash in Alien raises a question: if the Company knew that there was an alien on that planet, why send a tugboat to retrieve it? Why not send a team of specialists?
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Nov 29, 2015 15:22
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Kurzon posted:The subplot with Ash in Alien raises a question: if the Company knew that there was an alien on that planet, why send a tugboat to retrieve it? Why not send a team of specialists?
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Nov 29, 2015 16:05
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Hbomberguy posted:And that is why you are weak. "Rambo Ripley" blows her load by shooting her gun that is held at waist level while it jerks all over the queens eggs and then pumping it with her other arm and shooting off into the queen's reproductive organ, destroying it. This is in response to her consistently having dreams about the aftereffects of being raped. If people read that as straightforward kill all the bad guys with no other implications, that's their problem.
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Nov 29, 2015 16:53
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I mentioned it in another thread, but the whole scene of Ripley destroying the hive is given this incredibly sinister, brooding soundtrack that is pointedly at odds with it being a straightforwards power fantasy. Think about the circumstances leading up to it: Ripley knows the whole hive is going to blow, anyways, and the Alien Queen and her have reached a brief moment of understanding as two mothers trying to protect their children. Her torching the place is a deliberate act of pointless malice, and the soundtrack lets you know it. It's sort of like in Evangelion (especially in the remake) where the vast majority of the scenes of Shinji going nuts are accompanied not by a triumphant orchestral score, but a manic, anxiety-riven piece of music. The power fantasy of "getting revenge" feels (and looks) disgusting.
Vermain fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 17:08
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that's because it's not a straightforward power fantasy. power fantasies are male-centric, female empowerment stories are rare enough that they should t/can't be generalized as straightforward.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:39
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Armyman25 posted:I'm just amazed that James Cameron felt it necessary to copy Alien to the point that he even copied its deleted scenes. He actually talks about this a bit on the commentary for Aliens. IIRC due to a slight lack of confidence on his part (as according to him he was extremely reverent of Alien/Ridley Scott even before he got to direct Aliens) he intentionally tried to imitate Scott a bit and then have the film gradually become one of his own voice as it went on. So the salvage scene at the beginning is, like the beginning of Alien shot in this very cold way, with just a machine operating for most it. Even the chestbursting scene in Aliens, the guidance he had for it was solely "does this look as good as Alien," and was part of why he butted heads with James Horner a lot, since Horner likes using those really dramatic musical stings as the shocking stuff happens like when the implanted woman wakes up. The movie sort of goes back and forth like this, and becomes fully his vision during the scene where the marines get demolished in their first encounter with the aliens.
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Nov 29, 2015 17:40
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Vermain posted:I mentioned it in another thread, but the whole scene of Ripley destroying the hive is given this incredibly sinister, brooding soundtrack that is pointedly at odds with it being a straightforwards power fantasy. Think about the circumstances leading up to it: Ripley knows the whole hive is going to blow, anyways, and the Alien Queen and her have reached a brief moment of understanding as two mothers trying to protect their children. Her torching the place is a deliberate act of pointless malice, and the soundtrack lets you know it. It's sort of like in Evangelion (especially in the remake) where the vast majority of the scenes of Shinji going nuts are accompanied not by a triumphant orchestral score, but a manic, anxiety-riven piece of music. The power fantasy of "getting revenge" feels (and looks) disgusting.
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Nov 29, 2015 20:12
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