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djw175 posted:So what I did was save the thing to my drive and then download the whole thing. Once you extract it, you can click on the html links and it'll put the pages together This seems to work, thank you!
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Nov 30, 2015 03:53
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Mince Pieface posted:Oh yeah agreed, and it would be a pain to do in that way in the character builder anyway. I was thinking more along the lines of locking certain feats that are sometimes considered 'OP' like the Dragonmark feats or Wintertouched/Lasting Frost or say the Morninglord PP. I could see this maybe being still a little problematic for some builds, so I'm not 100% committed to the idea yet. I do want to find a way to give unique rewards for side objectives though. I think if you make magic items/boons/etc. the Optional Rewards thing and have inherent bonuses on, that would fine. Honestly, trying to restrict items & feats & whatnot based on what's 'OP' is just gonna get the game mired in opinion (are charge kits OP? combos that grant perma CA? perma stealth? how much bonus damage is 'too much'? etc.).
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Nov 30, 2015 04:44
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Generic Octopus posted:I think if you make magic items/boons/etc. the Optional Rewards thing and have inherent bonuses on, that would fine. I mean the point wouldn't be to ban those thing entirely, just to make you work for them. But I see your point about the difficulty of making such a list in a reasonable way. Maybe I'll just have above-level items in the optional rewards while the normal rewards have at-level items. Mince Pieface fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 05:10
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So Slayers literally just attack, huh? That's it, that's all they do?
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Nov 30, 2015 08:40
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alcharagia posted:So Slayers literally just attack, huh? That's it, that's all they do? Sometimes they attack harder
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Nov 30, 2015 08:45
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gradenko_2000 posted:Sometimes they attack harder What a dumb class. I clearly need to play one.
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Nov 30, 2015 08:50
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Let me see if I can get this straight: Immediate Actions can only be used once per round, where a round is defined as one loop through the initiative count. Immediate Actions are further subdivided into Immediate Interrupts and Immediate Reactions. If the power is an Immediate Interrupt, and you choose to use it, it kicks in before the thing that triggered it. If the power is an Immediate Reaction, and you choose to use it, it kicks in after the thing that triggered it. === An Opportunity Action can only be used once per turn, where a turn is defined as a single character's initiative count. This means a character can use their Opportunity Action multiple times per round, but only once per turn. Opportunity Actions kick in gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 09:43
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I believe opportunity actions typically precede their trigger, as do free actions.
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Nov 30, 2015 09:47
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The Crotch posted:I believe opportunity actions typically precede their trigger, as do free actions. I think it's OAs = Interrupt speed, Free actions = Reaction speed unless they must be interrupts to function, but it's been so long since I've had to look it up and I don't have the RC in front of me.
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Nov 30, 2015 09:49
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The Crotch posted:I believe opportunity actions typically precede their trigger, as do free actions. Okay, yeah, I got confused by the "Other Triggered Effects" paragraph that follows below the standard definition. Fixed.
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Nov 30, 2015 09:51
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alcharagia posted:So Slayers literally just attack, huh? That's it, that's all they do? So do Rangers, but no-one complains about them. If you build a slayer using only essentials materials it will be dull as poo poo and also mediocre. if you use pre-E materials, you can make it pretty loving impressive. My favourite is Half-Orc/Draeven Marauder/Gouge/Rending Axe/Ghost of the Past/MC Avenger, also picking up Deadly Axe when you finally start running out of feats. Note that Rending isn't a free action and not subject to free-action attack limits. Roll 2d20 for everything, roll a loving bucket of extra dice when you crit (and you will, you'll be attacking 3 or 4 times a round for the first round or two) then attack again. It's a plus numbers class at its core, but that's not so bad in 4e, and it does do pretty solidly at it. Generic Octopus posted:I think it's OAs = Interrupt speed, Free actions = Reaction speed unless they must be interrupts to function, but it's been so long since I've had to look it up and I don't have the RC in front of me. This is correct on both counts. No actions are not defined anywhere IIRC.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:19
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What is the elf knight build mentioned once here where you add your Con 2 or 3 times to damage?
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Nov 30, 2015 18:23
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Yeah, I've found the Slayer, Scout, Hunter (yes, really), and especially Thief to be quite effective in play, at least through high Paragon. But yeah, you definitely need to use pre-Essentials material, especially for the Hunter. A Hunter really needs to multi Seeker and pick up Primal Eye to hit that striker/controller spot.
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Nov 30, 2015 18:36
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:What is the elf knight build mentioned once here where you add your Con 2 or 3 times to damage? Half-Elf Knight (Dilettante Eldritch Strike CON, take Melee Training in Heroic, retrain to Versatile Master in Paragon) using a lighting warhammer. MC Warden, take Crippling Crush (using Defend the Line stance to slow) and then Lyrandar Wind--Rider. I think you can get at least one more too. But honestly, it's not going to be GOOD, because Knights don't generally make enough attacks for big static bonuses to help, and if you want to go Epic, you lose Crippling Crush a lot of the time because Overwhelming Impact >>>>>>> some damage. dwarf74 posted:Yeah, I've found the Slayer, Scout, Hunter (yes, really), and especially Thief to be quite effective in play, at least through high Paragon. But yeah, you definitely need to use pre-Essentials material, especially for the Hunter. A Hunter really needs to multi Seeker and pick up Primal Eye to hit that striker/controller spot. Hunters are just plain worse than regular Rangers past about mid-Paragon. The regular ranger can start picking up a decent amount of control at that stage, and the Hunter never gets better than Blind/Dazed/Immobilised, which all start being a lot less useful at late Paragon/Epic. It's symptomatic of the issues with weapons-based controllers, particularly at range, generally, that their conditions tend not to scale very well, which is a problem for two reasons, because in Epic, you really need to be imposing hefty conditions, and because they are rarely more than single target which means even more so that you need to be having a big impact. Hunters could easily have been fixed by making their encounter thingy scale better (more targets, more conditions) but Mearls
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Nov 30, 2015 18:55
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thespaceinvader posted:if you use pre-E materials, you can make it pretty loving impressive. dwarf74 posted:But yeah, you definitely need to use pre-Essentials material I am a total dink at actually making good characters, but my Fun New Slayer Character for a Bright and New Campaign is still level 1 so there's plenty of time to learn. I wanna deal truckloads of damage so I've got a greataxe and Unfettered Fury and stuff. What sort of feats should I be taking?
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Nov 30, 2015 19:02
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thespaceinvader posted:Hunters are just plain worse than regular Rangers past about mid-Paragon. The regular ranger can start picking up a decent amount of control at that stage, and the Hunter never gets better than Blind/Dazed/Immobilised, which all start being a lot less useful at late Paragon/Epic. It's symptomatic of the issues with weapons-based controllers, particularly at range, generally, that their conditions tend not to scale very well, which is a problem for two reasons, because in Epic, you really need to be imposing hefty conditions, and because they are rarely more than single target which means even more so that you need to be having a big impact. They certainly aren't optimal, but I wouldn't put them in the same "actively bad" category as Bladesingers and Binders after seeing them in action.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:19
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Race? Any free feats? First feat should be Gouge proficiency, almost certainly. This is what mine looked like last time I played him: quote:====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== I'd probably go with Half-Orc if you're planning on getting to Epic though, and Trip Up might well be a better power to pick up than Rain of Blows or Bash and Pummel, but I was running with a Bravura Warlord so I kept screwing up on free-action attack limits. Don;t forget that Boots of the Mighty Charge make a whole encounter power a charge, so you get Surprising Charge and Horned Helm etc on all the attacks of e.g. Rain of Blows. Grab as much of the charge kit as you can, too.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:21
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thespaceinvader posted:Race? Any free feats? He's a homebrew race called a Crocodilian; stat boosts to Strength and Dexterity, +1 to attacks, +5 to stealth, and +2 to speed in water, a tier-scaling grab attack with his powerful crocodile jaws, and he can treat two-handed weapons as versatile. Also, he is 10 feet tall and weighs 1300 pounds, which was the deciding factor in picking it over Half-Orc or other similar smash-killer official races. I'd never actually heard of Gouges before this somehow, but it's clearly a pretty fantastic choice, so I suppose that Weapon Proficiency (Gouge) is gonna be my first feat. Every other feat on the list is open. His character background (theme, I don't know, maybe these two things mean something different) is Gladiator from the Dark Sun setting supplement, and his at-wills are Berserker's Charge and Unfettered Fury. I didn't actually know I could take Fighter powers with Paragon feats, that's pretty neat.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:52
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+1 to hit as a racial? holy poo poo that's OP
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Nov 30, 2015 19:55
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thespaceinvader posted:+1 to hit as a racial? holy poo poo that's OP In water.
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Nov 30, 2015 19:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:Let me see if I can get this straight: You have it right. As usual in 4e, it all comes down to keywords. Immediate is once a round, Opportunity is once a turn. Interrupt is before the action that triggered it resolves, Reaction is after it resolves. I'm not sure there are any opportunity interrupts, thinking about it. Play a Fighter, it's the best way to learn the differences.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:57
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There are no Opportunity interrupts because all Opportunity actions have the interrupt timing.
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Nov 30, 2015 22:07
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I have an ethical question: is Flame Spiral as good as I think it is? By which I mean, as the sorcerer I always thought it just got Spell Source damage and by those estimates it's just pretty good. I thought the received wisdom was that it scales very well based on forced movement, but that's not a big deal for my current party. I just found out that it (apparently?) gets implement damage bonuses, and when I redid my calculations it looks like at minimum (meaning 4-9 cha, 3-12 spell source, up to +6 implement, and only two hits), it does damage consistently competitive with two ranger attacks to multiple targets and something like 30-40% of that damage is automatic. I haven't factored in dual implements or Focus or anything. How do reasonable people feel about it?
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Dec 1, 2015 02:31
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Caphi posted:I have an ethical question: is Flame Spiral as good as I think it is? It is considered the best power for sorcerers at that level other than perhaps Lightning Cuts, mileage varying based on build. You're a striker and sorcerers are very strong on damage even for strikers.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:49
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Caphi posted:I have an ethical question: is Flame Spiral as good as I think it is? Yea, that's how damage rolls work. Flame Spiral is a good thing. And review damage rolls, there might be yet more things you can add to it, if you're just now realizing Implements work.
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Dec 1, 2015 02:57
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Why would you have ever thought it didn't get implement damage bonuses?
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Dec 1, 2015 03:29
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I thought it wasn't the actual attack damage? I knew it was different from just 5+cha or whatever, but I guess it already seemed really good just adding Spell Source. Adding everything, twice, just seems absolutely excessive.
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Dec 1, 2015 03:46
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Caphi posted:I thought it wasn't the actual attack damage? This is why any method you can get to attack twice or more on your turn is considered pro-tier by charoppers.
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Dec 1, 2015 03:52
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Caphi posted:I thought it wasn't the actual attack damage? "Damage rolls" means "damage rolls", as in "every time you roll for damage".
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Dec 1, 2015 03:57
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It used to be even better, because you could trigger it multiple times, rather than 1/(turn or round, I forget which). Needless to say, that got errataed a while back.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:30
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It's always fun watching Sorcerer novas go off. Chaos ones especially. We have one in my party (played by goon ElegantFugue) and it's great when he melts the faces off of friend and foe alike. He even almost killed our Avenger this week, was good times. This was after said avenger solo'd a silver dragon via critical nonsense in two rounds. I, on the other hand, Runepriested my way to what must have been over 100 bonus damage total from two Rune of Mendings and pulled three people from bloodied to basically full with the rest of my actions. Then I turned into a storm elemental and stunned a pit fiend. Good times. Runepriests own. Epic's a lot of fun, we just flowed through four encounters without stopping this session. We all know our characters and their respective bullshit, how to synergize best in a given group of characters, and how to properly time and target the good stuff. Echophonic fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Dec 1, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 04:58
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If I wanted to run a game emphasizing non-standard races and non-standard race/class combinations, does an additional floating +2 that they can put into any stat their racials aren't boosting seem fine?
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Dec 1, 2015 05:29
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Kurieg posted:If I wanted to run a game emphasizing non-standard races and non-standard race/class combinations, does an additional floating +2 that they can put into any stat their racials aren't boosting seem fine? Honestly, just letting them put either both their +2s anywhere or even their secondary +2 anywhere would do a lot.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:32
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:It is considered the best power for sorcerers at that level other than perhaps Lightning Cuts, mileage varying based on build. Man, it's considered one of the best powers period for sorcerers. Sorcerers are kinda dumb.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:02
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Yeah, it'd make more sense if "has another damage roll" was an actual advantageous effect that the game seemed to be asking me to evaluate, but it's on Flame Spiral and nothing of higher or even equivalent level. I guess I wanted to know if poo poo like this was considered exploitative or not. I only picked Flame Spiral because it looked like solid close-range offense-defense, which is the Way of the Dragon. I did not expect it to scale as powerfully as it looks like it will.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:Man, it's considered one of the best powers period for sorcerers. The best Rogue power for ages is Low Slash, and that's a level 3 encounter as well. Rangers prefer Twin Strike to most of their higher level powers as well. I guess Warlocks use their higher level stuff? Caphi posted:Yeah, it'd make more sense if "has another damage roll" was an actual advantageous effect that the game seemed to be asking me to evaluate, but it's on Flame Spiral and nothing of higher or even equivalent level. I guess I wanted to know if poo poo like this was considered exploitative or not. I only picked Flame Spiral because it looked like solid close-range offense-defense, which is the Way of the Dragon. I did not expect it to scale as powerfully as it looks like it will. The devs probably didn't realize it added all the bonuses either, but it's not like they ever errata'd it. Sorcerors kind of need powers like this to keep up with the martial strikers.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:20
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There are a couple powers, such as Elven Accuracy, where you get to roll your attack roll again, and then it specifically says that you must use the second roll, even if it's lower. From a generic/game design viewpoint, what's the reason for this? Attacking is a binary thing: if you hit, then you don't need to reroll. If you miss and use the reroll, and the reroll still misses, then there would never be any reason for you to go back to the first roll, even if it's higher, as long as the first roll also missed. Right? I can sort of understand rerolling damage and forcing you to use the reroll: if you got a 2 on a 1d8 and you want to hope for better, it makes sense to force the player to use the second roll even if the second roll turned out to be a 1, to make the decision more of a gamble. Is it just closing off semantic loopholes, or is there some obscure rules interaction where going back to the initial-attack-roll-that-still-missed-but-rolled-higher might be beneficial?
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Dec 1, 2015 07:21
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I've taken flame spiral to mid epic after admixturing it to lightning as a sorcerer/lightning fury/avatar of storm. With a ton of forced movement in the party, I was multitapping for upwards of 120 damage per player turn for an encounter per turn. Yes, sorcerers get silly, particularly when built around. berenzen fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Dec 1, 2015 |
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Dec 1, 2015 07:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:There are a couple powers, such as Elven Accuracy, where you get to roll your attack roll again, and then it specifically says that you must use the second roll, even if it's lower. If I had to guess, I'd say it's to hedge their bets against using the powers to crit fish.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:28
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djw175 posted:If I had to guess, I'd say it's to hedge their bets against using the powers to crit fish. Ah! So if you already hit, and then you use the power to roll again hoping for a crit, but then you can't go back to the first roll if the second misses. Makes sense, thanks.
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Dec 1, 2015 07:39
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