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PleasantDirge posted:Yeah but its step 1 or 2 on the best draws soul sisters has. My buddy has been on a b/w lifegain deck forever. It plays martyr over the soul sisters themselves, which suck. Adding black gets you zealous persecution and orzhov charm, plus vault and some sideboard plays like tidehollow sculler.
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Dec 2, 2015 06:57
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PleasantDirge posted:Yeah but its step 1 or 2 on the best draws soul sisters has. It's more like a vindicate than an Oring, the stuff you hit is never coming back.
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Dec 2, 2015 07:13
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:My buddy has been on a b/w lifegain deck forever. It plays martyr over the soul sisters themselves, which suck. Adding black gets you zealous persecution and orzhov charm, plus vault and some sideboard plays like tidehollow sculler. At that point, why not just play BW tokens?
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Dec 2, 2015 07:29
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also why dies BW run Tidehollow Sculler when Brain Maggot is less aggressively costed in a format with less enchantment hate than artifact hate? e: I'm dumb and tired, one is a bear and one isn't 
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Dec 2, 2015 08:23
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Four Score posted:also why dies BW run Tidehollow Sculler when Brain Maggot is less aggressively costed in a format with less enchantment hate than artifact hate? Also one uses O-Ring templating and one uses Banishing Light templating.
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Dec 2, 2015 08:53
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suicidesteve posted:Also one uses O-Ring templating and one uses Banishing Light templating. You'd have to sacrifice the Sculler before seeing the opponent's hand to take advantage of that wouldn't you? Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, but there will be times you wished you kept the bear I think.
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Dec 2, 2015 12:01
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BizarroAzrael posted:You'd have to sacrifice the Sculler before seeing the opponent's hand to take advantage of that wouldn't you? Not saying it wouldn't be worth it, but there will be times you wished you kept the bear I think. I'm pretty sure Soul Sisters has ran instant speed flickers at one point or another.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:40
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I think if you splash black in sisters you're just doing it for lingering souls and sorin aren't you? Sculler doesn't seem to do much towards the goal of that deck.
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Dec 2, 2015 13:46
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On the subject of lingering souls, what are the odds we get a strictly worse version that makes the same amount of tokens but with the mana cost on the actual card and the flashback cost increased?
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Dec 2, 2015 14:23
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Count Bleck posted:On the subject of lingering souls, what are the odds we get a strictly worse version that makes the same amount of tokens but with the mana cost on the actual card and the flashback cost increased? I kind of doubt we'll see flashback around again soon. If I had to guess, with SoI, we'll see DFCs of some sort, but probably not any direct mechanic crossovers.
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Dec 2, 2015 14:50
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Skyl3lazer posted:I kind of doubt we'll see flashback around again soon. If I had to guess, with SoI, we'll see DFCs of some sort, but probably not any direct mechanic crossovers. We're going back to innistrad
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Dec 2, 2015 14:57
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Bread Set Jettison posted:We're going back to innistrad quote:If I had to guess, with SoI, we'll see DFCs of some sort, but probably not any direct mechanic crossovers
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Dec 2, 2015 15:09
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Morbid seems like an easy one to bring back. It's flavorful and broad enough that there's still a ton of stuff you can do with it. Flashback is there if they want it, it's a classic mechanic that they know plays well. Undying wouldn't be hugely surprising. Curses? Eh, maybe, there's not a ton more they can really do with it. Miracles and Soulbond seem very unlikely because Miracles was hugely divisive and they don't want people to assume the limited environment will suck as much as AVR. I'll be hugely surprised if we don't see DFCs again. And even Wizards have probably forgotten that Fateful Hour existed.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:24
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Yeah, there's a lot of mechanics I and I think a lot of people would like back. I forgot about Miracles , I wouldn't want something as OP as Bonfire, but it would be cool if a cycle includes a Black miracle this time, which could reflect things going to poo poo again. DFCs and Flashback are probably the most likely, but Morbid and Undying were strong mechanically and flavorful too. Curses is only a type so it doesn't have to occupy too much space if they want to use that, maybe have a limited archetype for it.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:43
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BizarroAzrael posted:Yeah, there's a lot of mechanics I and I think a lot of people would like back. I forgot about Miracles , I wouldn't want something as OP as Bonfire, but it would be cool if a cycle includes a Black miracle this time, which could reflect things going to poo poo again. There is no mechanic I want to see reprinted less than Miracles. It is an unfun lucksack mechanic that provides almost no interesting gameplay decisions (minus top/brainstorm) and forces me to warp the way I draw every single card in my deck for the entirety of a format in which they are legal.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:51
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From the way Maro has talked about it, I doubt we'll see miracles back in a regular set.
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Dec 2, 2015 16:06
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If it's going to be another graveyard themed set then I'm still waiting for my Threshold revival 
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Dec 2, 2015 16:12
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I actually wonder if we might not see madness. It's about its time, it fits with the speculation of tending towards a more lovecraftian sort of Gothic horror, and it's sort of like the inverse of Miracles but less toxic (which is why I thought of it).
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Dec 2, 2015 16:50
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Given the trailer and the name of the set, I highly doubt we're in a setting where miracles are flavorful anymore. So there's basically zero justification to bring it back.
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Dec 2, 2015 16:50
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C-Euro posted:If it's going to be another graveyard themed set then I'm still waiting for my Threshold revival I would think it has the same problem as Delve when they looked at it in innistrad, interacts badly with Flashback, which is more likely to return.
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Dec 2, 2015 16:53
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JerryLee posted:I actually wonder if we might not see madness. It's about its time, it fits with the speculation of tending towards a more lovecraftian sort of Gothic horror, and it's sort of like the inverse of Miracles but less toxic (which is why I thought of it). Madness is never going to be in standard again, it's the only mechanic they literally can't print reminder text for.
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Dec 2, 2015 16:55
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Skyl3lazer posted:Madness is never going to be in standard again, it's the only mechanic they literally can't print reminder text for. Why's that? I 've not used it before, but it sounds cool. Good excuse for a Pack Rat reprint!
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Dec 2, 2015 16:58
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BizarroAzrael posted:Why's that? I 've not used it before, but it sounds cool. Good excuse for a Pack Rat reprint! Anything but Pack Rat please. That card is misery.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:00
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BizarroAzrael posted:I would think it has the same problem as Delve when they looked at it in innistrad, interacts badly with Flashback, which is more likely to return. Counterpoint: being able to switch Threshold on and off with stuff like Flashback would make for some cool gameplay decisions, especially if they printed Threshold effects that are more than just "now this card is better". It's probably "too complex for Standard" or whatever, sadly.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:02
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They should print "Threshold -- This card gets worse" I think that works well with mill and flashback.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:08
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Skyl3lazer posted:Madness is never going to be in standard again, it's the only mechanic they literally can't print reminder text for. They just printed reminder text for madness in vintage masters, though
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Dec 2, 2015 17:12
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UberJew posted:They just printed reminder text for madness in vintage masters, though The reminder text is actually wrong though. quote:(If you discard this card, you may cast it for its madness cost instead of putting it into your graveyard.) vs quote:702.34a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a player’s hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. “Madness [cost]” means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.”
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Dec 2, 2015 17:16
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Most reminder text is actually wrong.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:19
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You mean if you take the entire comp rules description of an ability, it might be too long to serve as reminder text?  quote:702.102a Bestow represents two static abilities, one that functions while the card with bestow is on the stack and another that functions both while it’s on the stack and while it’s on the battlefield. “Bestow [cost]” means “You may cast this card by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost.” and “If you chose to pay this spell’s bestow cost, it becomes an Aura enchantment and gains enchant creature. These effects last until one of two things happens: this spell has an illegal target as it resolves or the permanent this spell becomes, becomes unattached.” quote:702.94a Soulbond is a keyword that represents two triggered abilities. “Soulbond” means “When this creature enters the battlefield, if you control both this creature and another creature and both are unpaired, you may pair this creature with another unpaired creature you control for as long as both remain creatures on the battlefield under your control” and “Whenever another creature enters the battlefield under your control, if you control both that creature and this one and both are unpaired, you may pair that creature with this creature for as long as both remain creatures on the battlefield under your control.”
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Dec 2, 2015 17:21
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Skyl3lazer posted:The reminder text is actually wrong though. Bestow was far worse and was all of two blocks ago
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Dec 2, 2015 17:27
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JerryLee posted:You mean if you take the entire comp rules description of an ability, it might be too long to serve as reminder text? The point is that the reminder text doesnt mention that A) the card is exiled B) it's exiled as a replacement effect or C) There's a second triggered effect as well as the replacement. You can stifle a card with madness that's discarded. If you do, the opponent never has the chance to cast it, and it'll remain in exile. This type of interaction isn't common, but it's the type of thing that can quite possibly come up in a game and totally mess with the expected outcomes. Here's one that could actually happen: 1) You cast a spell that has a discard as a cost: Tormenting Voice 2) As part of the cost, you discard Basking Rootwalla, a card with madness. It gets exiled as a replacement effect. 3) In response to the madness trigger, I cast Ulamog's Nullifier, put the Basking Rootwalla into your graveyard, and counter the Tormenting Voice. You'd no longer be able to use the trigger to cast the Rootwalla for its madness cost. You'd also have 0 idea this was possible from the reminder text. e; Also, it's a may on the replacement! So if you thought I might have the nullifier, you could choose to not exile it!
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Dec 2, 2015 17:27
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Didn't they bring back a Stifle effect AND Madness in the same block awhile back? Granted, that block was Time Spiral and there was some far more felonious poo poo going on there as far as game design is concerned, but still.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:01
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I consider myself to be pretty well versed in rules minutia, to the point where I'm one of the go-to rules questions guess at my LGS, and I just today learned that Makes actually briefly exiles the card. Interesting.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:03
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Last I checked, Time Spiral is also what caused them to put a complexity cap on sets in the first place.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:03
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A second Eldrazi has hit the tower 
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Dec 2, 2015 18:06
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Grimace's Uncharted Realms Abridged: "Chandra Fights Eldrazi In a Bathrobe" * Chandra is standing around thinking of a speech she has to give to some monks because she's now the Abbots of Keral Keep™. She feels guilty because her "friends" are fighting the Eldrazi on Zendikar, despite the fact that none of them are actually her friends except arguably Gideon (the last time she saw Gideon prior to the UR story where he asked her to come to Zendikar, she vaguely threatened to kill him, although she's hardcore tsundere for Gideon.) * She decides to travel to Zendikar in her ceremonial bathrobe to take a quick gander at what's up. Predictably she shows up at the Battle of Sea Gate. She sees Gideon doing a bunch of poo poo and is like "oh cool I guess poo poo's fine," but then some spawn attack her and ruin her bathrobe. She kills them. * Chandra decides a "mountain" she saw is actually Ulamog right as she's leaving and she gets all concerned. * Chandra shows up at her monastery and just wings the speech because she never wrote it and just tells them to go out and do good in the world, which is super mono-red of course. Chandra tells the Monastery Mentor™ that she has a job to do in the world where she can do some real good. The lady gives her poo poo and refuses to let her leave until she's really steeled her resolve to be as mono-red as possible and give in to her sense of duty and use her powers for the forces of good. They have a tearful mono-red goodbye. * Chandra shows up and sees Bobby Nixon starting poo poo. She shoots fireballs at him and fails. Kozilek arrives almost immediately to ruin poo poo.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:36
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Dr. Stab posted:They should print "Threshold -- This card gets worse" I was gonna say that, it would be a neat effect. But I doubt we'll see it, because feelbads.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:40
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Who would have in fact guessed that Chandra, in the art of OGW, would be in OGW?! That's fine. Print a not poo poo Chandra, thanks.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:46
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I can't wait for Omnath to finally appear and smack the poo poo out of some eldrazi or something because we're just going to be digging an impossible to climb out of hole without that.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:46
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I can't wait to see how they retcon werewolves back in. DFCs are definitely coming back. Half the reason we're going back to Innistrad so soon is that DFCs were so popular that they wanted to bring them back ASAP. The other half is that Innistrad's themes resonated with players very well, so they knew the set would sell amazingly.
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Dec 2, 2015 18:47
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