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The idea behind simple commons isn't that new players won't ever see stumpers, it's to limit the number they see per pack.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:22
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Yea, it's not that ichor slick is literally impossible to figure out (although it is complicated by the final casting mode not actually being spelled out on the card), it's that it comes up fairly often in a set full of headscratchers across all rarities. You can open up a pack of timespiral and have to read most of the cards in the pack to understand what they actually do.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:35
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Niton posted:Ichor Slick isn't actually that complex, either? Aside from the oddity of Madness exiling, Cycling and Madness interact exactly how you'd expect them to, and are actually a really cool combination of keywords. Processing the two abilities, the thing the card actually does, the 4 possible mana costs, and the different effect you get from each mode is a lot of mental energy to spend on a single card. After all that you still need to put it all together and evaluate whether the card is good or not. Doing that 14 times seems exhausting. I agree the design is great though. Angry Grimace posted:This is the problem that entrenched players underestimate by far the most in my experience - you would not believe how much players learning the game hate having to read all the loving cards every single time to figure out what they do. I never really understood the whole problem with complexity until someone I was drafting with said to me "do you ever just not play a card because it's got too many words and can't figure out what it does?". I asked what card it was and said I could probably explain it to them. She showed me Abbot of Keral Keep and I was like oh that card is a bomb you should definitely play it.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:36
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Well done to any goon judges recognised in the new exemplar program wave. I hope you all make good use of the foils instead of just selling them on, but it's entirely your right.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:48
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mehall posted:Well done to any goon judges recognised in the new exemplar program wave. I got recognized  I also used one of my recognitions on a judge who I think is one of the most undervalued in my region. Wave 4 though.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:53
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I would also like to point out that there's an extra part to flanking no-one has mentioned yet but which could plausibly come up in games. It seems like a pretty bad mechanic to not reminder. I can see the problem, having to read and comprehend a bunch of weird mechanics every time you see a new pack could make it exhausting to draft (evaluating power levels can be hard enough even with simple cards). If there's just one complicated mechanic in a set (like Bestow or Awaken) then it might cause you some pause on your first pack but at least from then on you'll be fine.
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Dec 3, 2015 00:57
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sarmhan posted:Yea, it's not that ichor slick is literally impossible to figure out (although it is complicated by the final casting mode not actually being spelled out on the card), it's that it comes up fairly often in a set full of headscratchers across all rarities. You can open up a pack of timespiral and have to read most of the cards in the pack to understand what they actually do. little munchkin posted:Processing the two abilities, the thing the card actually does, the 4 possible mana costs, and the different effect you get from each mode is a lot of mental energy to spend on a single card. After all that you still need to put it all together and evaluate whether the card is good or not. Doing that 14 times seems exhausting. I agree the design is great though. Yeah, that's fair - I grew up with both Madness and Cycling, so it really pops to me, but you definitely have to read it a couple of times to really "get" it if you've never seen it before. I still think Ichor Slick would be fine to reprint at common in the right set, though - it works exactly like you think it does, and that counts for a lot when dealing with complexity issues. Irony Be My Shield posted:I would also like to point out that there's an extra part to flanking no-one has mentioned yet but which could plausibly come up in games. It seems like a pretty bad mechanic to not reminder. Yeah, Flanking is absolutely nothing like Bushido, a similar-looking mechanic introduced two blocks earlier - Flanking only works while attacking, only works when the defending creature doesn't have flanking, and triggers once for each blocking creature. That's a really complex ability to not have reminder text. Niton fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Dec 3, 2015 |
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Dec 3, 2015 01:08
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Niton posted:Yeah, that's fair - I grew up with both Madness and Cycling, so it really pops to me, but you definitely have to read it a couple of times to really "get" it if you've never seen it before. I still think Ichor Slick would be fine to reprint at common in the right set, though - it works exactly like you think it does, and that counts for a lot when dealing with complexity issues.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:38
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I have generally found that the rules for games, especially reasonably complex games, seem unintuitive until I have learned them, at which point they become intuitive. Well, peace out.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:43
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I think Ichor Slick could be a reasonable common--it's a touch on the complex side, but I'd say it's within the budget for common removal. Of course, that would require a set that had both cycling and madness, which is pretty unlikely.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:44
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JerryLee posted:Fair enough, I got confused and thought we were still focusing on suspend! New players still expect the cards to do something. If they know that a card does a thing, but not why it does a thing, that's not fun. You need to understand basically everything ichor slick does in order to make sense of it. No player is content to read a card and think "oh it has a random mishmash of disparate abilities, that's cool." They want to give it a purpose. Look at a maro favorite in rescue from the underworld. That's a card that does a bunch of things and has a bunch of words on it, but you can read it and think "oh it gets me my guy back in a flavourful way" and then you're done thinking about it, but there's still lots more to discover about the card beyond that.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:45
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little munchkin posted:Processing the two abilities, the thing the card actually does, the 4 possible mana costs, and the different effect you get from each mode is a lot of mental energy to spend on a single card. After all that you still need to put it all together and evaluate whether the card is good or not. Doing that 14 times seems exhausting. I agree the design is great though. People who discuss magic online fail to realize that literally makes you the 1%. Actual pro players are the 0.1%. Wizards caters to the 98.9% because they buy more packs and supplemental products.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:48
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Dr. Stab posted:New players still expect the cards to do something. If they know that a card does a thing, but not why it does a thing, that's not fun. You need to understand basically everything ichor slick does in order to make sense of it. No player is content to read a card and think "oh it has a random mishmash of disparate abilities, that's cool." They want to give it a purpose. Look at a maro favorite in rescue from the underworld. That's a card that does a bunch of things and has a bunch of words on it, but you can read it and think "oh it gets me my guy back in a flavourful way" and then you're done thinking about it, but there's still lots more to discover about the card beyond that. Why does any card have cycling or madness? Why is it a failure state for a new player to play Ichor Slick as though it only had cycling or madness, or even just as a "vanilla" removal spell, until one day when they have an epiphany about the interaction? Anecdote: When I was learning to play Magic eons and eons ago, there was a Slippery Karst in the deck I was using to learn to play. It took me so long (relatively speaking) to figure out that I ought to cycle it if I already had more than enough land. It still tapped for mana just fine in the meantime. Yes, it's really dumb to play a CIPT land with no plan to take advantage of its other benefits, but that just makes past me even more naive, and thus hopefully an even better case study.
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Dec 3, 2015 01:50
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JerryLee posted:Why does any card have cycling or madness? The failure isn't "a card can't have cycling and madness that interact" it is what rarity is it? How much complexity is in the set overall? Cards don't exist in a vacuum. They're part of a set, and if there are a few complex things to spend some thinkin power on, and some things that are pretty straight forward, you still get the reward when you figure out the complex thing, but the game isn't an unfun pile of poo poo until you do get it. If there are a lot of complex things, the game is an unfun pile of poo poo until you get it. If you already get it, then you can accept almost any level of complexity and in fact probably enjoy things more when they're more complex. However, sales tell Wizards that more people don't get it than do.
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Dec 3, 2015 02:09
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Mezzanon posted:Insane local magic drama: the local high level judge got To-catch-a-predator'd last night and relinquished his drat self to police custody today. Well this is going to be a hard one to top.
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Dec 3, 2015 02:17
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Mezzanon posted:Insane local magic drama: the local high level judge got To-catch-a-predator'd last night and relinquished his drat self to police custody today. Pretty hosed up that this guy's ability to participate in Magic: the Gathering tournaments has been negatively impacted by a few rapish indiscretions that have nothing to do with the card game Magic: the Gathering.
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Dec 3, 2015 03:10
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Pretty hosed up that this guy's ability to participate in Magic: the Gathering tournaments has been negatively impacted by a few rapish indiscretions that have nothing to do with the card game Magic: the Gathering. please source your reddit quotes
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Dec 3, 2015 03:11
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Pretty hosed up that this guy's ability to participate in Magic: the Gathering tournaments has been negatively impacted by a few rapish indiscretions that have nothing to do with the card game Magic: the Gathering. Is this a reference to that other rapey guy?
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Dec 3, 2015 03:46
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Mezzanon posted:Is this a reference to that other rapey guy? probably not. the forums are a place for sincerely defending rapists and not a place for jokes
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Dec 3, 2015 04:00
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little munchkin posted:probably not. the forums are a place for sincerely defending rapists and not a place for jokes This is presumably a joke but uh, did you see some of the posts last time?
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Dec 3, 2015 04:06
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suicidesteve posted:This is presumably a joke but uh, did you see some of the posts last time? i didn't read this thread back then but writing a bunch of words about how it's important that the card game you play also gets played by a rapist who you've never met seems like a good use of time. much better than say, watching television or going outside.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:34
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DCI ban list update. G.Fab suspended 6 months. Still wonder if the story about him showing a judge how he knew his opponent cheating by cutting into a foil in his own deck was true. If so, duh?
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Dec 3, 2015 04:57
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UberJew posted:please source your reddit quotes Mezzanon posted:Is this a reference to that other rapey guy? Almost assuredly yes, but also almost assuredly a phrase written in earnest originally. LoB is the brave soul that ventures forth to darker realms (MTGS) and comes back with whatever morsels of insanity (s)he finds only to casually drop them in this thread with no mention of their source. It's sort of his(her?) deal. I think of it as a valuable service, reminding us what we could become if we aren't watchful.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:42
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So I've decided I'm going to collect MTGO redemption boxes of foil sets from Khans going forward, but I don't know when the best time to buy is in terms of any price dips that typically happen. "Black Lives Matter" is racist. Right now Khans is around $500, Fate around $250 and Dragons around $325. These prices seem very fair when you look at the value of the cards, but will the value of the cards go down once these sets rotate? I can't imagine Khans going down because the bulk of its value is the foil fetchlands. Am I right on that? What about the other two? When is generally the best time to purchase complete foil sets? Well, if you look at the incidents that Black Lives Matter protests, you can find plenty of equivalent examples with white cops and white citizens, black cops and white citizens, and black cops and black citizens. Thanks! So, when they protest ONLY those where it was a white cop and a black citizen, they're really only sending one message: White people cannot touch black people, no matter what, and white policemen specifically aren't allowed to hold black people accountable to the law. Edit: If the Khans block will be a little cheaper in the months after they rotate, I might go ahead and get the Theros block now instead. Then get Khans in a year. I would say it's a racist message.
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Dec 3, 2015 05:57
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for the record the source is every post ever made about zackary "at least I'm not a pedophile" jessie
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Dec 3, 2015 06:00
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Lottery of Babylon posted:for the record the source is every post ever made about zackary "at least I'm not a pedophile" jessie I think you missed my post where I just said "im gay" over and over
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Dec 3, 2015 06:03
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JerryLee posted:I think you missed my post where I just said "im gay" over and over Does anyone know how the MTGO redemption sets are packed? You found the only exception, because it was a group of six. I was of course familiar with the case. Had they all been black you would have never known the name Freddie Gray. Are they compiled by machines from the same print sheets that are used for boosters, and then put mechanically in the white boxes? Or do people put them together and put them in the white boxes by hand? That is the official dogma, but it's inconsistent with the actions and protests of Black Lives Matter. They didn't give one whit about Dillon Taylor, killed by a black officer two days after Michael Brown was killed. Oh, and Taylor was not committing any crimes, and never tried to take the officer's gun. Finding out for certain one way or another is very important to me, because if they are mechanically packed that means that they are in the same brand new condition that cards in booster packs are, and I can then obtain them occasionally to add to my 'brand new, never before touched by humans hands' collection. But cops do not treat different racial groups differently when you control for the behavior of the purported victims.
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Dec 3, 2015 06:12
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Mezzanon posted:Insane local magic drama: the local high level judge got To-catch-a-predator'd last night and relinquished his drat self to police custody today. This is important. Is he a Star Trek fan? Does he play blue? Does he have a lantern control, Merfolk, or miracles deck? Write back ASAP
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Dec 3, 2015 06:43
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Mezzanon posted:Insane local magic drama: the local high level judge got To-catch-a-predator'd last night and relinquished his drat self to police custody today.   
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Dec 3, 2015 07:01
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Dec 3, 2015 07:04
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Lottery of Babylon posted:for the record the source is every post ever made about zackary "at least I'm not a pedophile" jessie Man you can't get away with nuffin', no matter which thread, huh?
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Dec 3, 2015 07:09
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kizudarake posted:This is important. Is he a Star Trek fan? Does he play blue? Does he have a lantern control, Merfolk, or miracles deck? Maybe. Yes. Possibly. Definitely plays turbo turns.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:55
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Someone posted this on Tumblr yesterday.    It isn't perfect, but dang, I wish I'd done this first.
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Dec 3, 2015 08:43
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No great loss.
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Dec 3, 2015 08:56
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your honor, emrakul told me she was 18/18
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Dec 3, 2015 09:15
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Serperoth posted:Someone posted this on Tumblr yesterday. God damnit... Hahaha
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Dec 3, 2015 11:02
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Serperoth posted:Someone posted this on Tumblr yesterday. Throughout the ages, this has never gotten less funny. 
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Dec 3, 2015 12:30
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I really don't get the joke? Those look like completely random cards to me. e: oh, I think I figured it out. Magical jokes are often harder for the man.
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Dec 3, 2015 12:32
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Sigma-X posted:e: oh, I think I figured it out. Magical jokes are often harder for the man. This is why it never gets less funny.
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Dec 3, 2015 12:35
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mehall posted:Well done to any goon judges recognised in the new exemplar program wave. Thanks  was quite surprised to get one. Been a good month or so, what with this and making L2My main issue is working out what the hell to do with 8 recognitions a wave now 
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Dec 3, 2015 13:33
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