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Are you a This poll is closed. |
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| homeowner |
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39 | 22.41% |
| renter |
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69 | 39.66% |
| stupid peace of poo poo |
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66 | 37.93% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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I'd give them the credit, if only it was intentional.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:08
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:00 |
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Kiwiblog publishes an article calling for the immediate cessation of Muslim immigration, hides behind "it was a guest post! I don't endorse it!"
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Dec 3, 2015 06:15
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emminou posted:Kiwiblog publishes an article calling for the immediate cessation of Muslim immigration, hides behind "it was a guest post! I don't endorse it!" David Garrett posted:The prevailing sentiment among both the political elites and the population of Britain at large was then, as ours is now, one of tolerance, or at least wilful blindness to the dangers posed by the rising tide of fascism in Germany. This analogy is fascinating and terrible and what the gently caress. Also, even if you don't click through to read the post (don't), knowing that it's Garrett will probably tell you a lot.
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Dec 3, 2015 11:34
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If giving this Saudi $4m as well as sending 900 pregnant sheep, most of which don't successfully deliver, wasn't good enough, we're now buying the guy a $2.5m slaughterhouse. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/291259/govt-to-build-saudi-businessman-an-abattoir
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Dec 4, 2015 02:00
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So uh why are we giving this guy millions of dollars I don't get it? Are we trying to bribe him for something?
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Dec 4, 2015 17:23
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He has photos of Stephen Joyce personally inseminating the sheep.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:38
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truther posted:If giving this Saudi $4m as well as sending 900 pregnant sheep, most of which don't successfully deliver, wasn't good enough, we're now buying the guy a $2.5m slaughterhouse. Why? I don't understand this at all. At least the money they're spending on the flag change they can at least argue that it has something to do with our country, but what does giving this guy millions do for us?
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Dec 4, 2015 20:00
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Saros posted:Are we trying to bribe him for something? Yes.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:02
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In return for what though.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:28
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Laverna posted:Why? I don't understand this at all. Our government is corrupt.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:29
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Slavvy posted:In return for what though. "free trade"
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Dec 4, 2015 20:30
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Um excuse me, it's not bribery because that would be unethical. It's paying money to a Saudi in a position of power in the hope he will use his influence to secure a favourable outcome.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:41
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Slavvy posted:In return for what though. Not releasing the photos of Stephen Joyce and the sheep. At this point it is the only logical explanation.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:04
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Our government is corrupt. More accurately, their government is corrupt and ours is having to basically pay bribes to get our exports there. I guess that also makes our government corrupt?
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Dec 4, 2015 23:28
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fong posted:More accurately, their government is corrupt and ours is having to basically pay bribes to get our exports there. I guess that also makes our government corrupt? Yeah that's pretty much how corruption works.
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Dec 4, 2015 23:37
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Our government is corrupt. Shouldn't they try to be at least a little discreet about it? Corruption and bribery is supposed to be all hush hush, right? They could at least make an effort, come on! They aren't even good at being corrupt, ugh.
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Dec 5, 2015 01:03
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fong posted:More accurately, their government is corrupt and ours is having to basically pay bribes to get our exports there. I guess that also makes our government corrupt?
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Dec 5, 2015 01:25
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Who are we sending to do these negotiations? Not Mr I couldn't get into the WTO while spying on everyone and couldn't get milk from the TPPA?
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Dec 5, 2015 02:07
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fong posted:More accurately, their government is corrupt and ours is having to basically pay bribes to get our exports there. I guess that also makes our government corrupt? We already had numerous other examples. This is more notable for the shift to open corruption.
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Dec 5, 2015 07:19
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I don't think corruption is the right words tbh. Corruption is when the government behaves illegally. Like what they're doing to get our exports into Saudi is dodgy and pathetic and reflects poorly on us as a country, but I don't think it's corrupt.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:53
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Paying bribes to someone in order to get something done in this manner is illegal and is a fairly textbook definition of corruption.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:01
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Under what law is this illegal?
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Dec 5, 2015 23:07
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https://www.sfo.govt.nz/legislation Apparently there are loopholes if the value is low and it is to expedite a task that would happen anyway. Which doesn't cover this case. So paying some guy millions of dollars in order to influence potential trade negotiations would be covered.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:18
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The difference in this case is where the guy's role ends as a representative of the Saudi Arabian govt, and where his private interests begin. If this were to go through normal diplomatic routes it wouldn't be particularly unusual, its fairly common for states to seek some kind of compensation if another state's laws have disadvantaged them (and individual businesses). The difference is that this dude is a private interest as well as a govt official. It'd be like if Murry McCully also owned Zespri or something. I don't really know why I'm arguing this because, like I said, I think its dodgy, pathetic and degrading. I guess its because I don't think you can expect our government to just refuse dealings with corrupt individuals.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:42
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fong posted:I don't really know why I'm arguing this because, like I said, I think its dodgy, pathetic and degrading. I guess its because I don't think you can expect our government to just refuse dealings with corrupt individuals. It's good to try to feel through the issues from the other side. It makes it clearer in your own mind why you believe what you do.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:34
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fong posted:The difference in this case is where the guy's role ends as a representative of the Saudi Arabian govt, and where his private interests begin. It seems like they're continuous with each other, given Saudi Arabia's status as a kleptocratic monarchy where only members of the house of Saud can hold important positions.
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Dec 6, 2015 02:13
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fong posted:I don't think corruption is the right words tbh. "Morally bankrupt" are the right words, hth.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:07
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At this point, Hostis humani generis would also be a cozy fit.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:20
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fong posted:I guess its because I don't think you can expect our government to just refuse dealings with corrupt individuals. Why not? If everyone refused, then those corrupt individuals would find themselves with no power at all. Except people do deal with them, so they get to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. Insert typical "But if I don't do it someone else will!" response that bad people do to justify their horrible actions.
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Dec 6, 2015 08:45
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Oh loving boy it's time for THAT argument again 
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Dec 6, 2015 08:54
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Hey guys. Here's the thing. Free trade, as a notion and with any country, isn't a cornucopia that will produce good times forever. It's a double-edged sword that both parties grip as tightly as possible to see who bleeds least. It's definitely not something a tiny country who likes to brag about punching above its weight and being a respectable citizen of the world should be bribing individual members of a corrupt theocratic fundamentalist regime in pursuit of, let alone one that John "We don't back the rapists and murderers" Key should be pursuing given its abominable human rights records on raping and murdering, and its widely 'known' but diplomatically uncomfortable ties to the fundamentalist terrorism networks that make John Key wet himself over deploying troops. That our government will continue to make overtures that fundamentally contradict our expressed values as a nation and the values expressed as his own by his honour John Key the Prime Minister of New Zealand should come as no surprise given Nationals extensive history of providing perks, positions, jobs, and paybacks to its own party members, friends, partners and piggybanks throughout their term in power. All the best, please eat the rich instead of each other.
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Dec 6, 2015 10:01
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I would, but Exclamation Marx gets grumpy when I start making suggestions. Even though I don't see anyone else providing alternatives.
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Dec 6, 2015 10:05
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Ghostlight posted:given Nationals extensive history of providing perks, positions, jobs, and paybacks to its own party members, friends, partners and piggybanks throughout their term in power. This is the traditional form of corruption in NZ btw, rather than accepting monetary bribes
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Dec 6, 2015 10:44
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NZAmoeba posted:Why not? If everyone refused, then those corrupt individuals would find themselves with no power at all. Except people do deal with them, so they get to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. Its a bit more complicated than that though, because for our govt to have no dealings with them that would mean no kiwis allowed to travel there or do business there, and any kiwis living there either having to leave or be cut loose.
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Dec 6, 2015 11:45
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It's almost as if the real world isn't so black and white that "just don't talk to the corrupt people" isn't a viable option. It'd be nice if it was, but alas.
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Dec 6, 2015 11:52
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fong posted:Its a bit more complicated than that though, because for our govt to have no dealings with them that would mean no kiwis allowed to travel there or do business there, and any kiwis living there either having to leave or be cut loose. But there's a bit of a gulf (heh) between "don't acknowledge the existence of Saudi Arabia" and "don't give millions of kickbacks to corrupt officials, lie to cover it up and then fail to even achieve the goal you wanted to get out of this bribe". But everyone knows that giving up on chasing the free trade dream in this case is unpalatable because John Key is a good business man and would never completely fail to achieve an objective such as this.
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Dec 6, 2015 11:57
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I mean, it's literally something we did in protest of Fiji's military coup but reality is too grey to contemplate black and white solutions such as that, nice as they would be.
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Dec 6, 2015 12:02
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NZAmoeba posted:Why not? If everyone refused, then those corrupt individuals would find themselves with no power at all. Except people do deal with them, so they get to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. I don't disagree with you but every time I see/hear an argument like this my brain shuts down because I always think of that hoary old primary school lesson: if everyone picks up one piece of rubbish a day, there won't be any rubbish anywhere and it never loving happens.
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Dec 6, 2015 18:56
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Aaaand Judith Collins back as police and corrections minister. What the actual hell.
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Dec 7, 2015 01:29
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:00 |
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Ghostlight posted:should come as no surprise given Nationals extensive history of providing perks, positions, jobs, and paybacks to its own party members, friends, partners and piggybanks throughout their term in power.
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Dec 7, 2015 01:32
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