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Rent-A-Cop posted:Someone was rude on public transit!? Call the police, the SAS, and those guys with the big hats! Thankfully society roundly condemned this and it wasn't just a fringe-yet-notable example of people being lovely to people for no reason. Problem solved.
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Nov 30, 2015 23:36
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I remember a story about old ladies in england handing out shame cards to women they thought dressed like hussies. Does england have a tradition of handing out cards like this? It vaguely reminds me of handing out white feathers during war time.
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Dec 1, 2015 04:27
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katlington posted:I remember a story about old ladies in england handing out shame cards to women they thought dressed like hussies. Does england have a tradition of handing out cards like this? It vaguely reminds me of handing out white feathers during war time. Seems like you just answered your own question? English people (in the south especially) hate interpersonal conflict, so cowardly methods like giving someone an insulting piece of paper and running away are preferred to heckling.
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Dec 1, 2015 05:26
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katlington posted:I remember a story about old ladies in england handing out shame cards to women they thought dressed like hussies. Does england have a tradition of handing out cards like this? It vaguely reminds me of handing out white feathers during war time. There was a woman handing out cards a while back near maternity wards that said (paraphrased) "you look like a drug addict, have an abortion." Not sure what happened to her.
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Dec 1, 2015 10:38
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Weldon Pemberton posted:English people (in the south especially) hate interpersonal conflict, so cowardly methods like giving someone an insulting piece of paper and running away are preferred to heckling. English people love heckling. Class difference: Posh people talk about you behind your back. Non-posh people yell "Oi! Fatty! Who ate all the pies!"
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Dec 1, 2015 15:29
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lol, just found this in a Guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/01/carrie-fisher-weight-loss-star-wars-the-force-awakensquote:“There is no other way to do it. I have a harder time eating properly than I do exercising. It’s easier for me to add an activity than to deny myself something,” said Fisher. At least for some people just eating less seems not to be the easiest way.
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Dec 1, 2015 17:56
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Honj Steak posted:lol, just found this in a Guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/01/carrie-fisher-weight-loss-star-wars-the-force-awakens Think of it like this: in order to not eat s candy bar, you have to not eat that candy bar dozens, even hundreds of times a day. Whereas exercising enough to burn off a candy bar's worth of calories is extremely difficult, but I only have to do it once. Also, there's knock on effects from the exercise that help bolster resistance to stress eating. There's also something to be said for the psychological effects of taking an active hand in your own weight loss: eating less may be a more purely effective means of calorie prevention, but it doesn't feel as effective, which is why it's so easy to get discouraged doing it.
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Dec 1, 2015 18:09
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Honj Steak posted:lol, just found this in a Guardian article: http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/dec/01/carrie-fisher-weight-loss-star-wars-the-force-awakens that is because it is easier to pick up a new habit (exercising) than to change an old one (eating like poo poo). that is common sense and doesn't really prove a point one way or another.
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Dec 1, 2015 18:32
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I've had a handful of relatively high-functioning clients with Prader-Willi that were able to live in relatively non-restrictive settings simply because their environment was optimized so they wouldn't be constantly bombarded with temptation (e.g., pantry in the garage) and their weight was recorded and graphed by a different person (to prevent habitual sneaking of food). I guess I agree with fat activists that 'will power' doesn't play a major role in reduced eating, but at the same time, it's pretty hard to for me to see weight gain as some kind of mysterious uncontrollable fact of life.
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Dec 1, 2015 19:13
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hookerbot 5000 posted:There was a woman handing out cards a while back near maternity wards that said (paraphrased) "you look like a drug addict, have an abortion." Not sure what happened to her. It's an American group trying to practice eugenics. They target drug addicts and pay them money to be sterilised, but they'll pretty much walk up to any black women they see and offer them money to get their tubes tied. It's acceptable in America, because that's the way it is there, but it didn't go down well when they tried it here.
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Dec 1, 2015 22:42
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Thundercloud posted:It's an American group trying to practice eugenics. They target drug addicts and pay them money to be sterilised, but they'll pretty much walk up to any black women they see and offer them money to get their tubes tied. This is not acceptable in America and I don't know who told you it was. They're considered creepy over here as well.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:06
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Thundercloud posted:It's an American group trying to practice eugenics. They target drug addicts and pay them money to be sterilised, but they'll pretty much walk up to any black women they see and offer them money to get their tubes tied. It's acceptable in the sense that it's not illegal to offer someone compensation if they get sterilized, but it's creepy as gently caress and the authorities would find a way to shut you down or run you out of town as quickly as they could. As far as losing weight or "health at any size" is concerned, I get that it's tough. I have a hard time staying away from junk food and alcohol, but I do it because I got tired of waking up feeling tired and having to buy new clothes and feeling generally lovely. Do I enjoy working out? Not really, but I do it because I'm an adult and because I don't want a body that starts suffering serious collapses by the time I hit 40. I do kind of look down on fat people that I see on the street. I know that that's not a very nice thing and I feel bad about it, but for most work-a-day joes and janes basic fitness and self-control really isn't that hard. I assuage my guilt about it by being super-helpful to out of shape people who start working out at my gym.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:52
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VV What does that even mean?
Ervin K fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Dec 2, 2015 |
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Dec 2, 2015 04:56
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Ervin K posted:Jesus loving Christ dude, if you hate other people debating their point then why the gently caress are you in "Debate & Discussion"!? I don't give a poo poo who's right or wrong, stop spamming this thread with your whining. "Here is my point." "This is why your point doesn't really work." "JESUS CHRIST DUDE WE ARE DEBATING HERE." I dunno man, I don't think I'm the one who comes off as the whiner here.
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Dec 2, 2015 04:59
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Think of it like this: in order to not eat s candy bar, you have to not eat that candy bar dozens, even hundreds of times a day. Whereas exercising enough to burn off a candy bar's worth of calories is extremely difficult, but I only have to do it once. Also, there's knock on effects from the exercise that help bolster resistance to stress eating. There's also something to be said for the psychological effects of taking an active hand in your own weight loss: eating less may be a more purely effective means of calorie prevention, but it doesn't feel as effective, which is why it's so easy to get discouraged doing it. While very much echoing the sentiment that it is easier for many people to do something once than not do something continually, there are other benefits to an exercise oriented approach. More muscle mass increases the amount of calories you burn at rest. It isn't just what you burned during the workout. Exercising cultivates the habit of drinking water. The more water you drink the less soda you drink. Exercising releases hormones that make you happy. Hunger releases hormones that make you cranky. Exercising can be a social activity with friends. Eating together is also a social activity ... One that can make it hard to stick to a diet. Exercise focused approaches can leverage social ties in a way that dieting can't. You can secretly eat while participating in a group diet. But you can't secretly not participate in a group physical activity. Etc.
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Dec 2, 2015 08:47
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OK but not all exercise, in fact most exercise doesn't build much muscle mass at all, exercising makes you hungrier which makes it more likely that you will over eat and people vastly overestimate how many calories they burn when they exercise which leads them to believe that they can eat more, which makes over eating easier. Like exercise is a good thing and people should do it but really losing weight is about the 3rd or 4th reason to exercise on its own
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Dec 2, 2015 12:57
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Has anybody suggested fat shaming harder? I'm serious. Imagine if a non-profit or the Department of Health put out a series of ads demanding that the viewer exercise more willpower and educate themselves (and especially their kids) on proper nutrition. Maybe show figures that display the rates of diabetes among children in one shot while showing a legless diabetic in the other. Stuff like that. Go for the gut, just like pictures of black lungs on tobacco products, and add in a tinge of moral failure to twist the knife. Who cares if a fatty or two gets their feelings hurt? They should consider it tough love. I know the fat shaming subreddit has been a good motivation for me to keep up my diet changes. This has at least worked on a smaller scale elsewhere in the world. We obviously need to be a bit careful so that people with legitimate body image issues don't get caught in the crossfire, and I'm not entirely sure how to go about that.
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Dec 3, 2015 07:12
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I don't think pointing out the health risks and asking for people to use more willpower is really fat shaming although I have no doubt some people would accuse it of such. A picture of an obese person missing a foot and giving themself an insulin shot on big mac containers could go a long way.
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Dec 3, 2015 08:02
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McAlister posted:More muscle mass increases the amount of calories you burn at rest. It isn't just what you burned during the workout. Actually research has shown that this is utterly negligible. Muscle tissue doesn't burn noticeably more calories at rest than any other tissue type, including fat tissue.
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Dec 3, 2015 08:11
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enraged_camel posted:Actually research has shown that this is utterly negligible. Muscle tissue doesn't burn noticeably more calories at rest than any other tissue type, including fat tissue. A small difference makes a large effect in the long run. This goes for both gaining and losing weight. In any case health should be more emphasized than weight, though there's a correlation, and exercise is definitely an important measure in getting healthier. Also if you're completely at rest all the time you're gonna turn to poo poo in any case. A larger muscle mass is definitely affecting the metabolism at mediocre levels of activity, even though it's not as dramatic as some people feel it needs to be to make a difference. To sustain a certain muscle mass you'd need a baseline of activity anyway, except of course for the trunk musculature that develops to scaffold the obese body. A dramatic effect on calorie expenditure would mean starvation.
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Dec 3, 2015 11:36
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enraged_camel posted:Actually research has shown that this is utterly negligible. Muscle tissue doesn't burn noticeably more calories at rest than any other tissue type, including fat tissue. You are correct but exercising does increase metabolism which would otherwise slow to a crawl when at rest and deprived of the habitual amount of caloric intake. That does help people lose weight.
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Dec 3, 2015 13:58
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ProperGanderPusher posted:Has anybody suggested fat shaming harder? This actually makes the problem worse, not better. But hey, if treating complete strangers like garbage is what it takes to deal with your own terrible self-esteem, then who here can stop you?
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Dec 3, 2015 15:23
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The NYC subway has some ads like this. They shame the food, not the fat person. They do show things like amputations. I think that fat people feel shamed when they get the message "Lose weight, because you are ugly and we don't like to look at you." rather than "Eat healthily and avoid these horrifying health consequences that you may not have thought about." You have a good chance of avoiding the worst consequences of being overweight by eating healthy and having a healthy lifestyle, even if you don't get "thin."
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Dec 3, 2015 15:38
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ProperGanderPusher posted:This has at least worked on a smaller scale elsewhere in the world. This article especially mentions that it is a special case and that it relies on a culture that is used to the kind of shaming he uses. If America were a culture of shame this might work, but in fact the only major example of a large population (that I know of, admittedly) with a culture of shame is Japan, which already has low levels of obesity (3.2%, by the same standard the rest of the world uses) - and in fact they even lowered the threshold for what was considered obese. Even 'artificially' inflating the figure that way (for good region-related-health-issues reason) they still have lower obesity than the USA. So if your suggestion is that the western world adopt a culture of shame, then I suppose I'd agree, but good luck fundamentally changing the most arrogant country in the world's culture to the near-opposite.
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Dec 3, 2015 15:50
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Solkanar512 posted:This actually makes the problem worse, not better. But hey, if treating complete strangers like garbage is what it takes to deal with your own terrible self-esteem, then who here can stop you? It worked for smokers. We shame all sorts of "harmless" behaviour to promote a healthier society. "Use willpower to prevent type 2 diabetes" is hardly the psychologically crippling bullying you're making it out to be.
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Dec 3, 2015 16:17
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poo poo, the only reason I don't treat obese people with complete and utter contempt is that it isn't socially acceptable yet. I'd love for that to change.
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Dec 3, 2015 16:19
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Let's bring back the table blessings on a massive scale, but instead of thanking god for his gifts we promise only to eat until we're not hungry anymore.
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Dec 3, 2015 16:20
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ProperGanderPusher posted:Has anybody suggested fat shaming harder? People already know being fat is bad, it's not like it's news to anyone or that running such a campaign would alert people that fat is bad which they didn't know before.
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Dec 3, 2015 16:24
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People can write all the platitudes they want on their little Tumblr safe spaces, but fact is fact. Calories in > Calories out = 
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Dec 3, 2015 16:26
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Tesseraction posted:This article especially mentions that it is a special case and that it relies on a culture that is used to the kind of shaming he uses. If America were a culture of shame this might work, but in fact the only major example of a large population (that I know of, admittedly) with a culture of shame is Japan, which already has low levels of obesity (3.2%, by the same standard the rest of the world uses) - and in fact they even lowered the threshold for what was considered obese. Even 'artificially' inflating the figure that way (for good region-related-health-issues reason) they still have lower obesity than the USA. While we may not be a culture of shame, think of how quickly many Americans will jump at the chance to openly bully people when told it is their patriotic duty. The trick will be educating people that everyone with a high BMI, not just obese landwhales, is at high risk for health problems.
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Dec 3, 2015 16:42
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Mr. Wookums posted:poo poo, the only reason I don't treat obese people with complete and utter contempt is that it isn't socially acceptable yet. I'd love for that to change. Some people in London are handing out these flyers: 
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Dec 3, 2015 17:41
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ProperGanderPusher posted:While we may not be a culture of shame, think of how quickly many Americans will jump at the chance to openly bully people when told it is their patriotic duty. People already know that being fat is bad for health though. Maybe there's some guy living in the desert who has had no contact with the outside world who still thinks being fat is healthy, but you're not going to reach him.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:03
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There is pushback against that though in the form of the HAES movement.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:10
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SlipUp posted:There is pushback against that though in the form of the HAES movement. Those people know it's bad for them, also there's barely any of them. Like 50,000 internet nerds wordwide aren't setting the narrative for the US.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:23
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It's kind of a projection for us to assume that they really don't hold their stated opinions and aren't in some terrible state of denial. They don't carry any meaningful weight in the discourse now but they are starting to show up more on TV, print media, and popular blogs so it's more than it was five years ago. ...pun not intended but left in.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:32
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fishmech posted:People already know being fat is bad, it's not like it's news to anyone or that running such a campaign would alert people that fat is bad which they didn't know before. People know in some vague way that being fat is bad, yes. Many, many people don't know just how bad. Also, the prevalence of beautiful at any size people on talk shows and whatnot trigger the intellectually lazy 'truth must be in the middle' mindset allowing people to justify being overweight as long as they can still buy clothes off the rack that fit. I really don't think the health effects are as well understood by the general public as you think they are. And people certainly don't know what to do about it and how to really change. Even putting some effort in, there are hugely contradictory sources of information out there.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:33
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Trent posted:
But it all comes down to the same basic principle: eat less. Even if it's less lovely foods. And that is pretty common knowledge. Everyone knows the concept of "going on a diet."
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Dec 3, 2015 19:52
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Trent posted:People know in some vague way that being fat is bad, yes. Many, many people don't know just how bad. Also, the prevalence of beautiful at any size people on talk shows and whatnot trigger the intellectually lazy 'truth must be in the middle' mindset allowing people to justify being overweight as long as they can still buy clothes off the rack that fit. That people are willing to convince themselves "well it's ok for me" has little bearing on whether they actually know it's real bad. They don't need to know that +34 pounds of weight equals directly 167% increased risk of health condition subtype B, which is the level on which they "don't understand the health effects". And you're not going to convince them to change their minds by a psa campaign of yelling at them about it. I'd also love to hear what you think needs to be told to them to do about it.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:54
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Cole posted:But it all comes down to the same basic principle: eat less. Even if it's less lovely foods. And that is pretty common knowledge. What everyone knows in 2015 if that the concept of "going on a diet" doesn't work. Also, the "eat less" basic idea leads to people eating salads with more calories than the burger they're skipping, freaking out about the double down, and buying into trendy packaging and marketing fads like "low fat" and "all natural" You could reduce the volume, mass, etc of your food intake and still be fatter it less healthy as a result. Serving sizes are intentionally obfuscated. It isn't obvious it simple, and takes time and mental effort that the people who need it most feel like they can't afford to invest.
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Dec 3, 2015 19:57
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Trent posted:What everyone knows in 2015 if that the concept of "going on a diet" doesn't work. Also, the "eat less" basic idea leads to people eating salads with more calories than the burger they're skipping, freaking out about the double down, and buying into trendy packaging and marketing fads like "low fat" and "all natural" You take the things you eat, and you eat the same things, but less of them. It's simple. You avoid switching to other foods and mistakenly eating more. People just don't bother to do it
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Dec 3, 2015 20:00
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