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Onomarchus posted:I realize this probably won't happen, but I've had the idea for a bit now: imagine if the opening from season one returns for the last episode of season two. Obviously the credits would have to be updated for the current cast. It would work well too since each opening is supposed to fit the town of the season (and I guess mood of the season). The season two opening seems more upbeat and less dramatic, though under the surface and the more you stare at it the more messed up and chilling it seems (particularly the visuals). Yeah but the new intro is so cool, why would they throw it out for the finale
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Dec 3, 2015 20:42
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The old intro was loving great The new intro is also really good to the point where I might enjoy it more Although I think the song they use for it is a bit on the nose
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Dec 3, 2015 20:45
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The whole rapture motif of the Season 1 intro seemed to attempt a loose explanation of the events on October 14th, where the new intro leaves their whereabouts way more ambiguous which is why I dig it way more.
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Dec 3, 2015 21:47
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I loved the music from the first intro but did not like the super heavy handed religious theme it presented. The new intro about just being a mystery's mystery is much better fitting.
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Dec 3, 2015 22:06
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Onomarchus posted:I bet the GR does well in prisons. That's probably the one place that the GR aren't hated by authorities. Then again, authorities like gangs in prison as it keep a certain internal order and keeps the prisoners from ever coming together to riot. ... Not that the GR ever make it to prison. In this world, ATFEC just guns everyone down and ships the corpses off to the industrial incinerator. I'd love a third season. Shifting to a new place as they did this season would be great and there's so much to explore with a world where 2% departed: you could follow someone working for the vatican as public relations damage control or delve into the departures fraud inspectors work or follow a government agency dedicated to researching the departure, allocating funds and having to figure out which research is legit and which is ...well... Azrael possession. There are probably whole countries living as if the world ended because their leaders decided it was so and others that have decided to deny it (like China and AIDS).
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Dec 3, 2015 22:58
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Wtf are you guys talking about lol
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Dec 3, 2015 23:35
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The only question is, will season 3's theme song be a new one, or will they carry over this year's? I'm honestly totally fine either way. I'd also love it if they sort of explained the weird, cavewoman season opener, or am I just missing a connection?
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Dec 4, 2015 02:04
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I've slowly made connections to a lot of the poo poo that happens throughout the season as episodes go on, but what the hell was with the girls running naked through the woods? Also, my girlfriend didn't give two shits about the first season of this show, but after watching the first couple episodes of the second season she's been the one bugging me to watch it every week. I think that says something about the shift in seasons.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:05
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Iakona posted:I've slowly made connections to a lot of the poo poo that happens throughout the season as episodes go on, but what the hell was with the girls running naked through the woods? Also, my girlfriend didn't give two shits about the first season of this show, but after watching the first couple episodes of the second season she's been the one bugging me to watch it every week. I think that says something about the shift in seasons. I think the girls running naked is either them running away the first time (I don't remember if they found their clothes inside the car) or a flash forward of whatever the plan is this next episode.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:17
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I'd also love it if they sort of explained the weird, cavewoman season opener, or am I just missing a connection? it's meant to heavily imply that the sudden departure was not an isolated incident, that it's happened before on a (smaller) scale throughout history also meant to sort of set the audience up with the idea that the pond in miracle might in fact be somehow crucially connected to people departing
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Dec 4, 2015 02:24
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Toxxupation posted:it's meant to heavily imply that the sudden departure was not an isolated incident, that it's happened before on a (smaller) scale throughout history Can you expand on the implication that the departure was not isolated? I didn't get that at all
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Dec 4, 2015 02:42
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Ryan was sick of Wilfred's poo poo so he drowned him in a shallow pool. The End.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:43
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Toxxupation posted:it's meant to heavily imply that the sudden departure was not an isolated incident, that it's happened before on a (smaller) scale throughout history I don't think it implies that at all. First, because what happens is not a departure, but a cave in on her mates. Second because so much of that is focused on what the cavewoman does. I think it is straight up telling us what the series is about. A cave in happens and for some reason, either coincidental or destiny or whatever, one woman survives because she got up at the exact right time. What follows is that the woman can't simply move on. She literally can't move on, and just hangs around the cave where her tribe died. I.e., it is not about what caused the weird poo poo to happen, if supernatural or coincidental, but about the inability of people to move on from it.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:52
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joepinetree posted:I don't think it implies that at all. First, because what happens is not a departure, but a cave in on her mates. Second because so much of that is focused on what the cavewoman does. lol I'm pretty sure the poster meant "departure on a small scale" as a metaphor, and the cave woman did move on. She only moped around the campsite for a little while before leaving on her own
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Dec 4, 2015 02:57
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Dude did you all miss the part where the cave woman's dead body literally disappears
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Dec 4, 2015 03:01
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I think Patti at some point this season even uses the metaphor "the cave falls in" to describe losing loved ones suddenly, so its purpose could just be interesting visual allegory and not some deeper caveman magic foreshadowing.
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Dec 4, 2015 07:55
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FrensaGeran posted:I think Patti at some point this season even uses the metaphor "the cave falls in" to describe losing loved ones suddenly, so its purpose could just be interesting visual allegory and not some deeper caveman magic foreshadowing. In the dream episode Patti talks about when a cave falls in you're outside you can either sit there and wait for them to come back or you can move on. I can't remember the exact quote but I remember it seemed to specifically be referencing the season opener and it was pretty great. Edit: it was the body double Patti. “Our cave collapsed, Kevin. Now we can spend all our time digging through the rubble, looking for signs of life. Or… we can transform.” hollylolly fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 08:26
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Last Chance posted:lol I'm pretty sure the poster meant "departure on a small scale" as a metaphor, and the cave woman did move on. She only moped around the campsite for a little while before leaving on her own What? First, sudden departure has a pretty specific meaning in the show. Death through cave in isn't it. Second, the show literally shows the woman not only giving birth, but bathing her baby during the day, then standing in the middle of a thunderstorm in the open staring at the cave at night, and then waking up, seeing a bird, following and hungrily eating its eggs, pretty clearly indicating that she stood in front of the cave for at least a couple of days. She only moved when she saw the bird that she had seen right after the cave in, and then despite the fact that there is visible smoke in the horizon, when she is bitten by the snake she walks back towards the lake where the cave was. Toxxupation posted:Dude did you all miss the part where the cave woman's dead body literally disappears No, it doesn't. The camera pans from the dead cave woman's body to the 3 Jarden girls playing in the lake, going from cavewoman times to current times. There is no sudden departure shown or implied in that scene. I just rewatched that sequence and at no point does anyone depart. To expand on this more, Lindelof himself has said that he will never reveal what he really meant by that scene, only that it was intentional. But while discussing it, he makes two points that I think provide us with clues. First, from the variety interview from a couple of days ago: http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/leftovers-season-2-finale-damon-lindelof-cavewoman-scene-1201649945/ The idea for the scene: quote:We asked him on the first day of work [on season two], how did religion start? What do we know? What’s the first religion? The intention for the scene was not filling in the blanks to solve a mystery, but to establish a theme: quote:I lean more toward — we have an intention. Our intention is sort of emotional and theological, versus story-driven. then from the original Vox interview soon after that episode aired: http://www.vox.com/2015/10/4/9452213/leftovers-season-2-premiere-recap-cavewoman quote:Any obvious extrapolation was intentional. An earthquake to a woman in that era is the same as the Sudden Departure is to us in ours. Absent explanation. It can only be perceived as an act of mythic reality, but who is to say that it wasn't? So it is pretty clear here that the intention in that scene wasn't to say that sudden departures happen with any frequency, or any type of clue to figure out what really happened in our time. That scene is there because of how it encapsulates the theme of the season. Cavewoman wakes up and goes outside to pee, when an earthquake kills her entire tribe. She looks up and sees a screeching bird. She is incapable of comprehending what has just happened, so she just hangs around in front of the cave for two days, unable to move on, until she sees the bird in the sky again. She attaches some mythical notion to seeing that bird, follows it and discovers the nest, and then as she is eating the eggs the snake shows up. It is pretty much the theme of the season. People can't comprehend the sudden departure, so they get stuck in their rut waiting for something, and some see signs (like the cavewoman saw the bird as a sign) that they think they are supposed to follow. It goes back to what onomarchus mentioned a few posts ago, about the departure killing the Enlightenment. Nowadays we know why earthquakes happen. But people in the leftovers world don't know why the sudden departure happens. So they are stuck in the situation of the cavewoman, where something that has had a profound impact on people is completely unexplainable. So people start looking for signs to help them make sense of things. For the cavewoman, it was the bird, which led her to food, but also to the snake and her death. hollylolly posted:In the dream episode Patti talks about when a cave falls in you're outside you can either sit there and wait for them to come back or you can move on. I can't remember the exact quote but I remember it seemed to specifically be referencing the season opener and it was pretty great. Exactly. The show isn't about explaining why unexplicable things happen. It is about how people react and how they try to form meaning when inexplicable things happen. Earthquake kills tribe, woman can't comprehend what happened. So at first she tries to dig through the rubble, then she does nothing, and then she attaches meaning to a bird that ultimately leads her to food and her death. Maybe the bird was just a bird, maybe it was a message to follow, or maybe it was the wrong message to follow. Same thing that all characters are facing in the show. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 09:09
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Being that Cavewoman had a pretty hard time afterwards and, eventually, died as well I'd say the opening also reflected the people of Jarden. They all survived, sure, but they are far from fine.
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Dec 4, 2015 13:17
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Yeah, in Jarden I think you can see that the people there have problems accepting the exceptionalism that the rest of the world has assigned to them. It was chance, basically, and especially John fights back against the notion that they've done anything to earn their 'exempt' status. No miracles in Miracle...and when the girls disappear themselves it is a catalyst for Jarden's unraveling (which Meg is going to take advantage of). Jarden represents hope - hope that it is a 'safe' place from the Departure, that there is something one can DO to be spared, that there's a reason or an intelligence behind the Departure and it spared one entire town. And the GR (Meg in particular) is doing it's best to destroy that. There's no hope. The world already ended and we're just going through the motions. Jarden is just as screwed up as the rest of the world.
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Dec 4, 2015 18:43
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There is also some religious symbolism there, as both the cavewoman is killed by a snake, and there is the whole babylon angle that people have mentioned. I am not very well versed in religious imagery like that, so someone else can probably expand on this, but both are tales of downfall for mistakenly following an evil presence.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:19
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Yeah, as messed up as John's Secret House Burning Club is, it might be the only thing grounding the people of Jarden to the reality of the rest of the world. We're talking about a town where the citizens readily accept a woman who wears her wedding dress everyday, a man who slaughters a goat everyday. These are people who are still looking for an answer to the big "Why" question of the Departure, who are clinging to the first unique thing about 10/14 that their minds' come up with and turning it into a ritual to keep themselves safe. It reminds me of the conversation Jill has with the twins when they're burying the dead dog in the pilot, about how people are going to snap and go feral just like the dogs did, but it's just taking longer. Jarden is just as unstable and scared of "what's next" as the rest of the world, they just don't know it yet.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:23
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:The only question is, will season 3's theme song be a new one, or will they carry over this year's? There's a great two-part interview with Lindelof in Variety everyone should check out. In it, he points out that the cave had a tribe of 100 people in it and only 2 survived. So literally 2% survived, like an inverse October 14th. He also said the spot where the woman died is where they built the well that Kevin killed Patti in. Finally he said that he's hoping after people see the finale, they'll go, "Oh, that's why they showed us that cave woman opening."
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Dec 4, 2015 19:38
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I saw that interview. Which also reminds me of the last part of the cave woman scene. She dies to the snake because she left her baby behind to feed herself on the eggs, and tgen rushed in to protect it. This spells doom for characters who left people behind to feed their hunger. Which in this show is most of the adult main characters. Kevin left Jill behind to go to Virgil. Laurie left Kevin and Jill. Erica wanted to leave her kids. Matt left Mary. Nora left kevin. The question then is who is the baby who was left behind and who is the nrw cavewoman who will find t and take care of it.
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Dec 4, 2015 19:56
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Goddammit, the cavewoman wasn't peeing she gave birth to a baby how do y'all not remember that.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:00
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-S- posted:Goddammit, the cavewoman wasn't peeing she gave birth to a baby how do y'all not remember that. Just rewatched it. Woman definitely leaves the cave to pee. Her water breaks after the earthquake when she's trying to clear the rubble. Also rewatching it reminded me of her seeing the bird right before the quake and right before she dies. In the Lindelof interview, he says a consultant on the show is an expert on ancient religions, and he asked the guy how people first developed religions, and the guy said it came from seeing birds flying in the sky. My interpretation is the whole prologue is the cave woman coming to believe in a higher power (religion) at the moment right before her death.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:10
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joepinetree posted:What? First, sudden departure has a pretty specific meaning in the show. Death through cave in isn't it. quote:Any obvious extrapolation was intentional. An earthquake to a woman in that era is the same as the Sudden Departure is to us in ours. Absent explanation. It can only be perceived as an act of mythic reality, but who is to say that it wasn't? Last Chance fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 20:27
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I mean don't get me wrong, I did like your longpost about the themes behind that scene and everything, but I think we're saying the same thing 
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Dec 4, 2015 20:31
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Last Chance posted:Wtf, yes, almost like the smallscale cave-in was a metaphor for the departure. Like that other guy said. Like I said. And you said too, when you quoted the article: Did you miss the post where toxxupation claims the cavewoman's body literally disappeared? Are you just not reading posts or something? Hell, let me quote the two posts for you: Toxxupation posted:it's meant to heavily imply that the sudden departure was not an isolated incident, that it's happened before on a (smaller) scale throughout history Toxxupation posted:Dude did you all miss the part where the cave woman's dead body literally disappears It is pretty clear that toxxupation thought it was a literal departure, not a metaphorical one. Edit: -S- posted:Goddammit, the cavewoman wasn't peeing she gave birth to a baby how do y'all not remember that. qbert poster already tackled this, but to save people the trouble of going back to check for themselves, here's a screencap with closed caption on for the scene immediately before the earthquake:  joepinetree fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 4, 2015 |
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Dec 4, 2015 20:41
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joepinetree posted:Did you miss the post where toxxupation claims the cavewoman's body literally disappeared? Are you just not reading posts or something? I missed that second post but yeah gently caress you anyway
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Dec 4, 2015 20:46
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qbert posted:Finally he said that he's hoping after people see the finale, they'll go, "Oh, that's why they showed us that cave woman opening." Cave Woman is going to claw her way out of the dirt, return from death and will be Season 3's Big Bad, book it.
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Dec 4, 2015 20:53
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qbert posted:He also said the spot where the woman died is where they built the well that Kevin killed Patti in. *  -vibes intensify*
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Dec 4, 2015 21:34
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one interesting thing about the cave-woman's situation is she was saved by location. Because she was out of the cave, by random chance, she was saved. That has been a recurring theme throughout the season.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:11
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Binged watched the show, and it is really great. It really does feel like the true spiritual successor to Lost and not just because Lindelof is the show runner, and it deals with religious themes. A lot of the episodes feel like they could be a Lost episode with the on island plot cut out. Especially the one where Matt Jameson tries to save his church.
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Dec 6, 2015 03:46
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It's been some kinda crazy ride u guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z49bfaXGX78
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Dec 6, 2015 05:10
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Le Saboteur posted:Tom Perotta and Damon Lindelof were on Fresh Air on NPR today and it was a really good interview. They played Kevin reading from the book of Job from season 1 and I totally forgot that scene and it's just so beautiful to listen to. Just listened to it, great listen. Scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZDj4nTFNY I know season 2 has been renowned so far but we really owe it to season 1. S2 has been great all along but it took the entirety of S1 for me to realize how much of a masterpiece it is.
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Dec 6, 2015 07:27
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I don't disagree with anything I've seen said here about the cavewoman scene, and some of that has been stuff I didn't pick up on, but two things haven't been mentioned. One, it shows there has been an earthquake in the area not caused by human intervention. Explosions in the sewer and earthquakes caused by fracking or water disposal aren't the only valid explanations for quakes in the area. Two, it seemed to me the sequence was heavily about Nora when I saw it (and a little more with the second episode of this season) though in a weird way split between characters. The cavewoman goes out for mundane reasons then finds everyone (not just one person) close to her gone; as pigz pointed out, she is saved for purely small-scale geographic reasons, a connection that came from the second episode (an importance underlined by the episode title). That's just like Nora during the departure. Anyway, the cavewoman's able to move on with her life to an extent, stay busy, and feel connected because she quickly gets a new child after her loss, which is what Nora is trying to do with Lily. The difference here is that it's her own newly born kid and not some foundling she adopted. However, that, er, thread or element of Nora's life is supplied by the second woman taking the baby after the cavewoman dies. It adds up to Nora's life in a weird way. There may be some extra piece of the puzzle I'm missing. A third idea occurred to me yesterday, that the sequence is the show trying to do what the movie The Tree of Life attempted to but doing it right. I thought The Tree of Life was an extremely ambitious movie that ended up a total failure (in terms of quality, not revenue). That's just my opinion; there's nothing wrong with people thinking the opposite. However, I maintain that's one thing that sequence is going for, and you can tell it in the episode's title being, "Axis Mundi."
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Dec 6, 2015 17:41
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If that scene is supposed to connect to Nora I always thought Nora is more the in the role of the woman who takes the baby from the dying woman "adopting" it in a sense. I was thinking we might get one more scene of that period that shows what happened to the baby, but as it stands now I think the finale has so much to address in the present. I am guessing we won't see another cave woman scene
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Dec 6, 2015 20:37
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Calling it now: everyone comes back as a bunch of carrots and little sweet peas.
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Dec 6, 2015 21:16
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FrensaGeran posted:Calling it now: everyone comes back as a bunch of carrots and little sweet peas. That is my favorite part of that song
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Dec 6, 2015 22:38
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