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MrL_JaKiri posted:See that's what I thought last week but dialogue this week implied the opposite when Ashilder brought back the TV movie and started asking if the Doctor was half human I did think we were going to find out that either one of the immortal human women were destined to become his mother. the two of them ending the episode by going back to Gallifrey, but not straight back to Clara's death, does leave that opportunity open for another episode.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:30
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Cerv posted:and there's not a million Mire hanging out with Ashilder at the End of Time (again) Presumably it reacts very differently with human DNA (how often would a human get exposed to that type of thing, after all), or the Doctor did something sonic-y with it beforehand. Doesn't explain what happened to her boyfriend who had the same tech in him, and in general the whole Hybrid nonsense ended up falling flat. Teek posted:Also appreciate that they called out the half-human thing again. Which seems to be confirmed as still a thing. Nah that was just a tease/callback (as MrL_JaKiri noted, this episode seemed to be all about "let's put in reference to <thing>!"), it's almost immediately revealed after the tease that the "hybrid" refers to the Doctor as a Time Lord and Clara as a human being so wrapped up in each other that they are willing to gently caress up all of time and space to look out for each other (consider how much the Doctor was willing to do to save her, including shooting another Time Lord and using up one of their regenerations just to prove a point). There was also a suggestion that the Master somehow picked Clara would form this kind of bond with the Doctor, which feels like it is trying to retroactively fit the season 9 arc into stuff going back to season 7. All season I felt like Clara being too Doctor-like was building to an ending where she'd realize that it wasn't emotionally healthy for her to be in this relationship, and it was time to move on, properly grieve for Danny and start a new life. In the end she did grasp that she and the Doctor needed to part ways, but managed to still continue to live the life of wild sci-fi adventure she craved - so she never really faced up to the grief of losing Danny, so it does make it feel to me like her character never got the healthy emotional closure she needed.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:31
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Also the stuff with Rassilon and The High Council being exiled is totally going to be a thing in another series or two. Moffat doesn't drop stuff like that in and then just leave it alone.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:32
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According to many Facebook posts this was an amazing episode because it brought the sonic screwdriver back. So, hey, I guess that's something? The whole thing just seemed like a pretty unfocused mess. The reintroduction of Galifrey just felt like a real let down. It should have been absolutely its own thing, the whole revival series in its own way has been building to that you could argue and it became just a thing. If they wanted Karn in there so bad then why not go to them instead and work that in and save Galifrey for its own separate story? And the whole Me thing just didn't really go anywhere and the interactions with her all seemed to follow the same pattern with no real pay off.. Me: I'm going to say something which can be construed as me being evil Doctor: You are evil and i hate you and will make your life hell Me: But I am actually not evil and although I may appear hardened I'm actually ok and good Doctor: ok
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Dec 5, 2015 22:32
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Cerv posted:with two contradictory explanations presented, i'll chose to ignore the nonsensical & overly melodramatic version that actually probably is what Moffat loving meant isn't it. That's why he's an orphan. Clara had an affair with a male Timelord, dropped the Doctor off on Gallifrey in that hut and then went to her death. Also, Dalton was a way better Rassilon than this dude. Presumably they couldn't get him back?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:32
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I still can't wrap my head around the entire Gallifrey plot. The Doctor shows up after a few billion years in a personal hell. He promptly leads a military coup and exiles/maroons the High Council of Time Lords, last seen trying to end time itself to ascend to a higher plane of existence, including Rassilon, godlike creator of time lord society and technology. He then becomes Lord President (again), but this was basically just a scheme to get the authority needed to time extract Clara and gently caress off again in a new tardis. Rassilon should have been a worthy adversary for the doctor, not a chump.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:38
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Wait, I don't remember Missy causing Clara and the Doctor to meet. Is that what happened? Good things: - Old Tardis interior (where did the BBC dig that up from?) - Sonic screwdriver is back! - The trailer for the christmas episode Bad things: - Gallifrey is still underwhelming and nonsensical - Way too much sappy Clara stuff. We did that two episode ago. Just leave her dead and be done with it. - Oh god no please don't make a Clara&Ashildr spin-off that's gonna be terrible. - The rest of the rather confusing plot.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:39
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My least favorite new Who season had my favorite Capaldi ep and favorite companion exit So I guess it was still memorable, but boy was there nothing else to write home about this year
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Dec 5, 2015 22:39
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Jerusalem posted:All season I felt like Clara being too Doctor-like was building to an ending where she'd realize that it wasn't emotionally healthy for her to be in this relationship, and it was time to move on, properly grieve for Danny and start a new life. In the end she did grasp that she and the Doctor needed to part ways, but managed to still continue to live the life of wild sci-fi adventure she craved - so she never really faced up to the grief of losing Danny, so it does make it feel to me like her character never got the healthy emotional closure she needed. I never got the feeling at any point this season that Danny was ever going to get mentioned again. Clara seemed to just completely forget about him. Also, what was that with Missy being mentioned? As I say my stream was choppy at that point and I didn't quite get why she was being brought up? And the whole thing with Missy giving Clara the Doctor's number and essentially pairing the two of them together. Do we know why she even bothered to do that? Are we to believe that Missy knew what sort of bond they would form and that they together were the hybrid and would destroy the universe/Galifrey and the entire thing is just a Missy plan to ruin everyone's poo poo? Seems stretching ridiculously even for Doctor Who
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Dec 5, 2015 22:40
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PriorMarcus posted:Also, Dalton was a way better Rassilon than this dude. Presumably they couldn't get him back? Donald Sumpter is a pretty good actor...but they just didn't do anything with him. Rassilon in this episode was just the equivalent of "Old Man Yells at Cloud".
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Dec 5, 2015 22:40
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I liked the episode. It wasn't as good as last week's story but that was a very difficult one to follow. I did not feel bored watching it. There's only really been a couple of episodes I didn't really enjoy this season, so I think it has been pretty good on the whole. My dad didn't like it because he doesn't understand it when it goes back and forward and around about and so forth in time. He says he likes it better when it's just things getting zapped. I suppose Clara and Ashildr have gone wherever Jenny ended up now. It was Moffat's idea to keep Jenny alive, or so I've heard. I also remember that one interview he did before it came out (for Radio Times?) where he said he was going back and changing part of the mythology in the finale. I didn't really notice what it was. What did he change?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:40
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MrL_JaKiri posted:There was no reason why any of it was there. "Look, it's thing I know the name of! Yay!" appears to be the target reaction, unless I missed some (sub)text. She's his mum PriorMarcus posted:Also, Dalton was a way better Rassilon than this dude. Presumably they couldn't get him back? Dalton would way overshadow the rest of the episode (and series).
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Dec 5, 2015 22:41
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Carbon dioxide posted:Wait, I don't remember Missy causing Clara and the Doctor to meet. Is that what happened? Clara met the Doctor by phoning the Tardis thinking it was a tech support line for her broadband. She was given the number by "the woman in the shop" and it was a bit of a mystery who that was until the show just forgot about it for a few years. until today.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:42
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thepokey posted:I never got the feeling at any point this season that Danny was ever going to get mentioned again. Clara seemed to just completely forget about him. he was mentioned two weeks ago. clara telling herself to face death bravely like Danny Pink did. and it is a bit weird that she refers to her dead bf by his full name like that.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:44
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Pesky Splinter posted:Donald Sumpter is a pretty good actor...but they just didn't do anything with him. Rassilon in this episode was just the equivalent of "Old Man Yells at Cloud". Presumable putting the entire high council of time lords on a rocketship to dispose of them forever isn't such a sound idea. I hope they show up next season or simply come right back to Gallifrey once the Doctor leaves.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:45
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Cerv posted:Clara met the Doctor by phoning the Tardis thinking it was a tech support line for her broadband. She was given the number by "the woman in the shop" and it was a bit of a mystery who that was until the show just forgot about it for a few years. until today. It was mentioned in last season's finale by Missy, I think
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Dec 5, 2015 22:47
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Wheat Loaf posted:I liked the episode. It wasn't as good as last week's story but that was a very difficult one to follow. I did not feel bored watching it. There's only really been a couple of episodes I didn't really enjoy this season, so I think it has been pretty good on the whole. He made it so the reason the Doctor left Gallifrey wasn't because he was bored and felt held down by the rot of their lovely society but because he was afraid of a silly prophecy he heard while in a silly prophecy tunnel. This is especially dumb as a change when he has the best actor ever for playing the rebellious, punk rock version of the Doctor who would run away because he was bored. It's a massive retcon, and at this point means that Moffat has written the entire Doctor's past as fact, whereas before he was in charge we only had brief hints.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:47
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Fair enough. I guess it didn't really jump out at me. I don't tend to be terribly bothered about that sort of thing.* I mean, the Master's evil because Rassilon put evil drums in his head, yeah? * Should I be?
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Dec 5, 2015 22:52
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I liked that episode. Series 9 is easily the best so far imo.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:52
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Bring on the Toxx
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Dec 5, 2015 22:59
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cargohills posted:I liked that episode. Series 9 is easily the best so far imo. I like series 8 more so long as you count Last Christmas as the finale. Plus the actual finale felt more cohesive, this one was way too messy. The whole thing with Rassilon was like 20 minutes of blubber that would almost certainly have been cut if Moffat had had time for a second draft.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:59
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I wasn't keen on this season as a whole and thought about stopping outright but last episode was really good and this one was all right. I think it would have been better if we hadn't had some key ideas used before in (weak(er)) stories like the mindwipe thing or "the final final end of time" or "all of time and space collapsing because of love". Similarly I would have liked Clara's goodbye more if we hadn't already had one two episodes before and it hadn't been interminably melodramatic. Also "hybrid" is an inherently ugly, clumsy word. Whatever you do with it, it'll always sound bad to the ear. Well, that's my opinions.
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Dec 5, 2015 22:59
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The one thing I'm still unsure about is whether the season was linear or not. I still think there was something going on with the Doctor jumping back and fitting in new adventures with Clara around the ones he'd already had with her, as a way of still getting to hang out with her after her death (and later memory-wiped departure) but the finale didn't bear that out at all. They made such a big deal out of that predestination paradox episode that I was convinced he was going to end up sending the Confession Dial to the Master so that she could track down Clara for him (since he could only remember the fact he knew her, but not recognize/remember her if he saw her) which in turn would mean he got the Confession Dial on Skaro which would eventually lead into him being teleported into the Confession Dial on Trap Street. Instead it all seems to have been very much straightforward and linear, which oddly enough to me makes the season feel less straightforward, if that makes any sense 
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Dec 5, 2015 23:02
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Wheat Loaf posted:where he said he was going back and changing part of the mythology in the finale. I didn't really notice what it was. What did he change? PriorMarcus posted:He made it so the reason the Doctor left Gallifrey wasn't because he was bored and felt held down by the rot of their lovely society He made it so Susan was the President's daughter, not the Doctor's grand daughter
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Dec 5, 2015 23:05
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There were some awesome little moments in that episode. But yeah....10 years the revival has been going and since day 1 it's all been building to the Doctor being back on Gallifrey. 10 years. And in the end It felt like just another planet.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:10
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Thats probably because the doctor cared more about Clara at this point dont get the western hat outfits for Gallifreyans either
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Dec 5, 2015 23:32
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The_Master posted:There were some awesome little moments in that episode. But yeah....10 years the revival has been going and since day 1 it's all been building to the Doctor being back on Gallifrey. 10 years. And in the end It felt like just another planet. I felt more like it was building for five years to the Time Lords coming back in "The End of Time".
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Dec 5, 2015 23:38
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After five years, revival show runners have to have a nonsensical episode where Gallifrey comes back and it turns out that Rassilon is a jerk. It's a contractual obligation.
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Dec 5, 2015 23:43
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MrL_JaKiri posted:After five years, revival show runners have to have a nonsensical episode where Gallifrey comes back and it turns out that Rassilon is a jerk. It's a contractual obligation. And he must have a Nintendo Power Glove (possibly "of Rassilon" - we can only assume).
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Dec 5, 2015 23:46
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how is rassilon back anyway, we all know that he was stuck in the divergent universe for the rest of time 
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Dec 5, 2015 23:55
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IceAgeComing posted:how is rassilon back anyway, we all know that he was stuck in the divergent universe for the rest of time He waved his magic glove and freed himself, or something.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:04
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Well that was... Well, that was. I'm not sure what it was, when it was on it was properly on, but a lot of it felt flat, dull, or just outright confused. Capaldi feels like he's really getting into his stride with the character which is nice. Overall, though, a HUGE letdown after last week. Also, was the guitar something from Capaldi's contract? It's seemed really extraneous every time it's come up. Christmas ep looks like it should be fun though.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:04
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That was awesome. Series 9 has loving owned.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:09
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Goodbye smug girl, and good riddance. I feel like most of the overarching arcs with Clara all involve how magic she is, and man I'm happy for that to be done. It could be personal preference, but I enjoy these stories more when the main characters are observational actors in the situation vs. vital components of the prophecy that will doom us all. It's also still just a bit off putting how far the doctor goes to keep this one human alive. In context, sure, she's great, and I'm happy the Doctor cares so much for his friend. But this obsession becomes eyebrow raising when he let's so. many. of his other friends just kick the bucket time and time again. If they did this kind of poo poo with River, that'd be neat. Doctor's going after the woman he loves. Forsaking your (at least I thought it was) goal to get back home to save the life of a friend? Seemed a bit forced. I will say tho, that was a solid ending for the character.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:28
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I don't get the negative reactions in this thread, I loved it. Clara's exit in Face the Raven was great, but this was even better, especially in how it not-so-subtly burned RTD's handling of Donna. It is pretty sad that the Doctor won't remember Clara, but it's all for the best, I suppose. He need someone to tamp down his worst instincts. I think it also pays off Missy getting Clara and the Doctor to meet very well. Like, she entirely chose Clara to potentially bring out the worst in the Doctor and drive him into Crazytown. AND IT ALMOST WORKED. also kinda like that Clara's now a sorta immortal (well, she'll have to go back to Gallifrey and die EVENTUALLY) in a TARDIS that looks like a 50's American diner. c'mon guys that is COOL, that is VERY COOL. and Rachel Talalay remains one of the show's very best directors. 
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Dec 6, 2015 00:28
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The handling of Donna was great, I don't see why it had to be burned?
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Dec 6, 2015 00:34
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Just occurred to me - I might have misheard what Capaldi was saying but did they imply that Pop Tate's Choklit TARDIS was the same one the Doctor visited with Amy, Rory and River in "The Impossible Astronaut"?
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Dec 6, 2015 00:36
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Spatula City posted:
Never would've expected that from the person who made Tank Girl, Ghost in the Machine, and Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:36
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MrL_JaKiri posted:The handling of Donna was great, I don't see why it had to be burned? It was just kinda cruel for no good reason, which is fine, but not really something Who does too often.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:37
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Watching the jackasses melt down about The General's regeneration is hilarious...although I would have been happier if the newly regenerated character hadn't had to make a snarky comment about it.
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Dec 6, 2015 00:39
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