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What wonderful television. I love that Kevin is whole again, including his sleepwalking memories. I hope this gets renewed and I hope Kevin is the solution Tom and Laurie were looking for. He's practically got an acolyte in John already. He has something real to offer people. I'd love to see Kevin destroy the GR in its entirety.
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Dec 7, 2015 10:14
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Yeah, the whole "you can come to my house" line seems almost set up like a biblical line.
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Dec 7, 2015 12:01
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If Justin Thoroux doesn't get at least nominated for an Emmy there's no justice in this world. The singing scene alone should convince any committee members.
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Dec 7, 2015 14:04
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Josh Lyman posted:I agree that this finale felt a bit weak, but I think that's in part due to how happy the ending was. The Leftovers is about pain, misery, catharsis, and we veered off that path toward the end. See it didn't feel very happy to me. I mean on the surface Kevin walks into a house full of people, but that's all in the midst of absolute chaos, earthquakes, GR has infiltrated, being shot and possibly ACTUALLY being dead ("I live here now" sounded very "I'm dead now" to me).
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Dec 7, 2015 14:14
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BonoMan posted:See it didn't feel very happy to me. I mean on the surface Kevin walks into a house full of people, but that's all in the midst of absolute chaos, earthquakes, GR has infiltrated, being shot and possibly ACTUALLY being dead ("I live here now" sounded very "I'm dead now" to me). Wait he might just be dead and never woke up? What the gently caress man. The show might never come back on and now I have this thought in my head?!?
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Dec 7, 2015 14:28
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That was great. John got some great character growth. He gave up on the dogmatic secular point of view that doesn't work so well in that world even though its probably on point most of the time and he's kind of accepting that maybe his family doesn't love him because he's been violent, controlling and obsessive. I kind of get what the remnant wanted now. Miracle like the show told us was this oasis outside of the worldwide tragedy and they didn't want to kill the population they just wanted chaos and despair up in their faces and for them to know that the tragedy had affected them all along. I feel like if the story continues Kevin will have an answer to their, well basically nihilism. I don't know what that is but clearly magical things have happened to him. He was poisoned, buried for hours and he got up and then he was shot and he bled out and then he got up. I don't expect the show to explain what exactly happened but I do expect major consequences. As in he won't be just trying to live a quiet life with family anymore. Obviously they'll be there but I don't think Kevin gets to retire from the world like he wanted. Was really happy for Matt that Mary woke up again and other people saw it. The guilty remnant are great. I kind of hate them and think they're the worst but they are really compelling.
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Dec 7, 2015 14:43
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Pot Pie posted:What wonderful television. I love that Kevin is whole again, including his sleepwalking memories. I hope this gets renewed and I hope Kevin is the solution Tom and Laurie were looking for. He's practically got an acolyte in John already. He has something real to offer people. I'd love to see Kevin destroy the GR in its entirety. This would make an awesome season 3.
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Dec 7, 2015 14:49
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Webbeh posted:This would make an awesome season 3. If this is what they do for season 3, and then end it, I would be super pleased. Don't get me wrong, I want more Leftovers, all day, every day, but I also don't want a Seinfeldian ending to this show.
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Dec 7, 2015 14:58
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If anyone deserves a happy ending there it's Kevin. Dude died twice in a day.
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Dec 7, 2015 15:22
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lifts cats over head posted:If Justin Thoroux doesn't get at least nominated for an Emmy there's no justice in this world. The singing scene alone should convince any committee members. Kevin Carrol too. That "I don't understand what's going on" scene is loving phenomenal. Unfortunately the new emmy rules (where voters don't have to have watched all nominees anymore) probably will hurt the leftovers, since apparently viewership has been abysmal.
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Dec 7, 2015 15:36
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smashtcrusht posted:Wait he might just be dead and never woke up? What the gently caress man. The show might never come back on and now I have this thought in my head?!? Yeah essentially he woke up to a hellscape (I won't use the term "hell" because I think heaven and hell don't really have definitions in this universe) that felt very afterlife-y to me. Especially being reunited with his loved ones (his "Cave"). Matt's smile really said something to me... I mean he walks in bloody from a gun shot wound, a massive Earthquake has just taken place literally moments before and Matt just kind of gives him this "welcome home" smile. Given that interview with Lindelof, and I don't say this snarkily, I feel like he's leaving it a bit open to if they get a third season or not. If they get a third season he'll most likely try to ground the scenario in something more real world, if not it could indeed be some sort of afterlife (or at the very least very open to interpretation).
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Dec 7, 2015 15:40
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The ending was definitely happy, but it didn't seem artificial or forced at all. It's not like the ending was "and all of Kevin's problems are solved for ever and ever amen." The town that he moved to looking for safety has fallen into chaos, whatever hope of starting fresh they brought here has been shattered by Meg and the GR. But, because of all that, coming home to his family, all of the people who he cares about and who care about him, is a moment of relief. In that moment, he can forget that the world makes no sense and is falling apart and just be with the people he loves, and it's good enough. Prior to watching the finale, I watched the fourth episode "Orange Sticker". When Patti is pestering Kevin in that episode, she's says something like "What you and Nora have isn't love, it's damage control. Your family blew up, her family blew up, and now you're just trying to pick up the pieces." or something to that effect. I think what Kevin has come to accept is that "Damage Control" is all love has ever been, regardless of the Departure. Love is having someone you can rely on to help you pick up the pieces after things blow up. It's having someone to come home to even when your world is falling apart.
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Dec 7, 2015 15:50
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Also Kevin singing Homeward Bound was the Kevin reading Job moment of this season and it was great.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:31
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BonoMan posted:See it didn't feel very happy to me. I mean on the surface Kevin walks into a house full of people, but that's all in the midst of absolute chaos, earthquakes, GR has infiltrated, being shot and possibly ACTUALLY being dead ("I live here now" sounded very "I'm dead now" to me). Yeah, until we got the final shot inside the house I thought that Bridge Man/Hotel Bar Mephistopheles had played Kevin for a chump. He warned him that "killing" Patti would change him forever, then he goads him into singing to return, so Kevin does what he says and gets to come back to a hellish, ruined version of the world he knew. I thought when Kevin opened the door to his house he would find it empty, and realize his afterlife was being trapped in GR-occupied, pagan orgy-rave Jarden for eternity. Great, great, great finale. Perfectly happy if that's the end of the series, but I truly hope HBO gives them another season. I don't know where they would take the story after this, but then again that's how I felt after the end of the first season, and I was pleasantly surprised (to say the least) at how things turned out.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:47
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BonoMan posted:See it didn't feel very happy to me. I mean on the surface Kevin walks into a house full of people, but that's all in the midst of absolute chaos, earthquakes, GR has infiltrated, being shot and possibly ACTUALLY being dead ("I live here now" sounded very "I'm dead now" to me). After all the poo poo his family has been through they are all there- alive and pretty well. For the first time. And he's alive. That's much more important than earthquakes and GR
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Dec 7, 2015 17:52
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4 RING SHRIMP posted:After all the poo poo his family has been through they are all there- alive and pretty well. For the first time. And he's alive. That's much more important than earthquakes and GR I get that, I'm talking bigger picture.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:00
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I was worried pastor's wife would go back to her coma after the 2nd earthquake, happy to see her smiling at the end
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Dec 7, 2015 19:04
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Holy poo poo that was amazing! Where is my. god. damned. mind. I'm with everyone who stopped breathing for a moment when Kevin got shot then double whammy oh poo poo! when he woke up in that hotel bathtub again. Moments that stuck out: Tom recognizing the Holy Wayne baby in Nora's arms and coming to his senses to save them both from being trampled. Nora recognizing that she loved HER baby as much as she ever loved her own kids despite the radio saying that people like her have their love abilities broken. When the radio said the only solution is Jesus and she smashes it, that was just perfect! Erika trying to make her daughter talk in sign language since she won't talk. Evie being a stone cold bitch just like her mentor Meg. The Garvey dog seeing the mess in town and going the other way. Ciao crazies! The next shot is of two partiers doing it doggy style in the smoke. Kevin finally realizing that family and found family (including the dude that shot him!) matter more than making sense of anything. Took him long enough and man is he unkillable. Choosing police chief again means he's back in his element. He protects people and that's who he is. Mary not having the slightest distress about being pregnant, just happiness. Her and Matt are too precious for this dirty world. John ma'fuckin Murphy, most intense man alive. That's two dudes he's tried to kill only to have them come back to life. "We are not spared" So much in this episode was perfectly timed, set up, written in. LOVE when a show has a game plan and really sticks to it. THIS is how you do TV, no adding junk along the way, having to retcon or go out of character. I imagine twitter is full of justin theroux gifs where he's angrily dancing around the hotel room buttnaked, yelling for his dad at the TV.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:05
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I think one of my favorite touches was when Kevin was back in Purgatory/Hotel Afterlife they played the same classical music stinger as episode 8 while he was there. (I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head even though it sounds like one I should  )
Stealthed Zombie fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Dec 7, 2015 |
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Dec 7, 2015 19:32
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Stealthed Zombie posted:I think one of my favorite touches was when Kevin was back in Purgatory/Hotel Afterlife they played the same classical music stinger as episode 8 while he was there. (I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head even though it sounds like one I should Verdi's Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves. They brought back a ton of the musical stings in this in really great ways. The Where is My Mind piano rendition really stood out as well.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:37
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What do you all think of the Guilty Remnant get-up that was in the closet. There was the suit (International Assassin), uniform (Police Chief), and the white (Cult Member). I was trying to figure out if this was a sign that he had 3 "missions" to go through in this afterlife OR If he had 3 chances to come back to life and he used up 2 of them. I also agree that while a happy ending, it seems strange that everyone in the house would just be calmly sitting, waiting, and greeting him immediately following an earthquake. This show can't be done... there's more going on here. I also want to know what John walked into at his house.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:41
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SLOSifl posted:If anyone deserves a happy ending there it's Kevin. Dude died twice in a day. Oh yeah, that first time was just earlier today for him. Talk about a day.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:56
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Good Show
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Dec 7, 2015 20:26
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Is the dog somehow connected to Patti? Both were captured by sleepwalking Kevin. The dog comes back after the guilty remnant stunt in mapleton, and Kevin says that Patti first appeared later that day. Then the dog left Kevin the same day Kevin claims Patti is gone.
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Dec 7, 2015 20:33
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Shadow posted:What do you all think of the Guilty Remnant get-up that was in the closet. There was the suit (International Assassin), uniform (Police Chief), and the white (Cult Member). I think all the outfits represented some subconscious desire from his real life. As Virgil pointed out last time, the Assassin outfit reflected a wish for a life without his family and without attachments. This time, he puts on the Mapleton Cop uniform - representing the life he ran away from at the start of this season - and his trial just required him to sing/reflect on how much the people from that life actually mean to him. I think the GR outfit was a sign that maybe, deep down, Kevin had considered simply giving in to that nihilistic mindset at some point. Likewise, the priest's robes were some passing wish for enlightenment and belief in a higher power, that he could achieve the kind of understanding that Reverend Jamison and his father seemingly had.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:18
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That was some season of TV. Really glad I decided to watch Season 1 on a whim and continue to watch it at the start of Season 2. Any news on a Season 3? joepinetree posted:Unfortunately the new emmy rules (where voters don't have to have watched all nominees anymore) probably will hurt the leftovers, since apparently viewership has been abysmal. That's depressing.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:20
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JethroMcB posted:I think all the outfits represented some subconscious desire from his real life. As Virgil pointed out last time, the Assassin outfit reflected a wish for a life without his family and without attachments. This time, he puts on the Mapleton Cop uniform - representing the life he ran away from at the start of this season - and his trial just required him to sing/reflect on how much the people from that life actually mean to him. I can buy that being the meaning behind those clothing/identity options. BUT What I was asking before was more about what they indicate with regards to his path and journey. Does he have a finite number of lives to come back to and is that all it means or does he still have pending missions left in this afterlife? Is the true end (understanding, answers, bliss) going to come after he plays the remaining parts in the hotel? Is that what season 3 is? PLEASE?! I mean... what's up with his dad? I'm glad you all seem to love this ending and I do too, but not for a series ending. I need more!
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Dec 7, 2015 21:27
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I wanna see more of his dad too, he's just so loving crazy... But maybe not that crazy?? Loved his cameo in International Assassin. That was hilarious..
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Dec 7, 2015 21:44
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Last Chance posted:I wanna see more of his dad too, he's just so loving crazy... But maybe not that crazy?? Loved his cameo in International Assassin. That was hilarious.. Well this last question and answer from a Damon interview that came out today should make you happy. quote:TVLINE | I imagine you probably have some ideas in your head about what a potential third season looks like. Throw me a scoop?
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Dec 7, 2015 22:02
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So Nora blasphemed the sweet baby Jesus and then God's all like "nuh uh" and causes the miracle earthquake that makes Mary wake up, am I reading that correctly?
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Dec 7, 2015 22:06
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Kevin Garvey Sr. centric flashback episode for Season 3 confirmed. 
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Dec 7, 2015 22:07
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the leftovers was never going to be nominated for emmys, old emmy rules or not
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Dec 7, 2015 22:08
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Cacator posted:So Nora blasphemed the sweet baby Jesus and then God's all like "nuh uh" and causes the miracle earthquake that makes Mary wake up, am I reading that correctly? Yeah I felt the same way. I was admittedly tired and laying in bed while watching, but I think I need a cheat sheet of explanations.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:08
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joepinetree posted:Unfortunately the new emmy rules (where voters don't have to have watched all nominees anymore) probably will hurt the leftovers, since apparently viewership has been abysmal. also this isn't the rule change. all voters still have to watch (or, ahem, "watch", they're sent screeners and most of the old-timers just pick whatever they know and all the actively-working voters are far too busy to actually watch the screeners, so they inevitably assign their assistants to watch and pick for them) all the entries in whatever category they're voting in, it's just as previously established about 10% of the emmy voting pool voted for any particular category the emmys loosened that restriction so more of the voting pool votes in each category. From the one year where the rules have been placed, the nominations have skewed "younger" as result (with more Netflix shows than ever getting nommed) but the wins have been more "populous" (with Game of Thrones winning Best Drama against Mad Men, BCS, and OITNB all having greatly critically acclaimed seasons) in either case Leftovers has little chance of getting nominated for an astounding second season or collection of performances in 2016, and zero chance of winning
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Dec 7, 2015 22:17
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I think it's pretty much a given that the Emmy's are meaningless in an era where it's not just cable TV competing with broadcast, but premium cable, Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Prime originals, and loving Crackle and other Web only options. The rules for how shows get watched has changed dramatically so Nielsen ratings are losing their value. I have faith in Premium channels like HBO and Showtime "getting it" and not arbitrarily canceling shows for "low TV ratings" because they'd be retarded. HBO Now subscriptions should help tremendously with that. Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu are built on platforms that understand how to quantify these things, so they should be good. It's really just normal Cable TV and Broadcast that don't seem to get it. I may not watch a show on Cable (because gently caress cable), but I might watch it on Hulu, and chances are I will watch it on Netflix or Amazon if it gets there. It makes understanding what shows get watched harder but not impossible. If they were smart (lol) they'd figure out a model to quantify popular TV and not overly promote bullshit people hate due to live TV ratings. But since advertising still speaks volume and broadcast TV is still the most premium ad space you can buy (lol btw), it'll take a while. Um... Leftovers is a good show.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:45
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Shadow posted:What I was asking before was more about what they indicate with regards to his path and journey. Does he have a finite number of lives to come back to and is that all it means or does he still have pending missions left in this afterlife? Is the true end (understanding, answers, bliss) going to come after he plays the remaining parts in the hotel? I don't think he's got a finite number of resurrections, because the Assassin outfit was still hanging in the closet. But here's a relevant bit from one of Lindelof's interviews with Variety: quote:We had been identifying Kevin as suffering from the prophet’s dilemma, which is [mentioned in “Guest” in season one]. In a post-Departure world, if you have a weird dream, you wake up wondering, “Is God talking to me?” Reza [Aslan, consulting producer] said, “Oh, Kevin’s not a prophet. He’s a shaman.” He talked about what a shaman is and how a shaman can commune between the world of the living and the world of the dead. And the way that he does this is he has to find an Axis Mundi. All of these ideas that Reza was putting on us informed the storytelling of the entire season and most particularly that first episode, and the introduction of Jarden as an Axis Mundi. So I guess as long as Kevin is in Jarden, he has access to The Hotel. But I don't think he's in a rush to go back, given that he seems to be at peace now. (Also, Kevin's "Motherfucker! I am not doing this again!" when he realized where he was may be the funniest moment of the entire season - not that it has a ton of competition, but when this show goes for a laugh they tend to be good ones..) Or, Season 3, Kevin teams up with Erika to form a Flatliners-style death and resurrection holistic spiritual healing company.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:59
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Just finished the finale, and despite the poo poo that is the Guilty Remanent, I was very happy with it. This show has got to be the most dramatic turn from "meh" to "amazing!" for a television series. Screw the Emmy's, this show was my favorite of 2015, and that's coming from someone who was very, very dismissive of Season 1! Man I hope Season 3 gets the green light. Kevin is the closest thing to a God on Earth right now, and John is an amazing character that deserves more.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:03
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Toxxupation posted:also this isn't the rule change. all voters still have to watch (or, ahem, "watch", they're sent screeners and most of the old-timers just pick whatever they know and all the actively-working voters are far too busy to actually watch the screeners, so they inevitably assign their assistants to watch and pick for them) all the entries in whatever category they're voting in, it's just as previously established about 10% of the emmy voting pool voted for any particular category I don't think you are disagreeing with what I said. Its just that the basic consequence of the changes is that people can vote without watching. While voters still technically have to watch all submissions, it went from being "Blue Ribbon panels" which had to be vetted, could only serve on 4 panels, and would watch nominees as a group in hotels (or later would receive DVD screeners at home), to one where screeners are available online, and they just have to check a box saying they watched all of them and have no conflict of interest. This leads to many changes, some of which you cover, but it also undeniably works against shows with abysmally small viewerships.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:15
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Shadow posted:Yeah I felt the same way. I was admittedly tired and laying in bed while watching, but I think I need a cheat sheet of explanations. There's something there but not quite as cut and dry as we'd want I think. Remember in S1 when Kevin gets super angry and yells out "GODDAMNIT" and his car just up and quits? I think they're both a kind of lens that have found each other and have some sort of super lensing effect when together.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:28
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"Thanks for waiting for me!  " is possibly the best thing this show has ever done, and is driven home by the fact that once the dog is certain Kevin is safe it bolts the gently caress out of JardinThen the police baton set against the fire This show is amazing, if it doesn't get renewed I don't think I'll be angry it was so good.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:39
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