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Was Vornheim actually worth reading? The author aside I've heard the actual ideas in it for a citycrawl seem to be fairly well thought out (but I cannot vet any of the sources that go one way or the other on it with a critical review). The other stuff in both OSR bundles seem neat though.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:34
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Gogmagog PLANET OF GIANT ROBOT BATTLES is amazing.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:39
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Kai Tave posted:Gogmagog PLANET OF GIANT ROBOT BATTLES is amazing. There's a bunch of stuff like that. It's got a planet that's got a collapsing reputation-based economy, a race that's fighting a war against an internal faction that's trying to devolve to mindlessness, and a world that's literally D&D.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:59
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aldantefax posted:Was Vornheim actually worth reading? The author aside I've heard the actual ideas in it for a citycrawl seem to be fairly well thought out (but I cannot vet any of the sources that go one way or the other on it with a critical review). The other stuff in both OSR bundles seem neat though. I like everything about Vornhiem as a product and wish there were more like it.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:03
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Holy poo poo, Strange Stars looks amazing. The base collection is enough for me, because I have everything from the expanded collection that I'm interested in (namely, Beyond the Wall) and those pictures enough were enough to sell me on it. Even better, it's apparently system neutral, which is great because I just got the vehicles expansion for Strike! (a good game although beyond the scope of this thread) and I was looking for a good excuse to run a campaign where vehicles figure in prominently.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:16
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There's a Kickstarter for a 4th printing of the DCC RPG core book wrapping up in a few days. $40 gets you an updated book (errata, corrections) with more artwork got added to blank spaces and margins, and I think 6 free adventures modules. They've cleared other stretch goals too for "swag" and supplies. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1409961192/dcc-rpg-4th-printing
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Nov 20, 2015 22:49
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Okay, so somebody just directed me to this: Monsterparts. Basically, it's a statless hack of D&D where the PCs are little kids investigating weird stuff going on in their neighborhood. I really want to remix this with something like Into the Odd.
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Nov 20, 2015 22:58
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Final shill for the DCC RPG Kickstarter I mentioned 2 posts up. 6 hours left, all stretch goals have been met. The amount of free stuff you get with a $40 book is a really awesome value.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:43
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obeyasia posted:Final shill for the DCC RPG Kickstarter I mentioned 2 posts up. 6 hours left, all stretch goals have been met. The amount of free stuff you get with a $40 book is a really awesome value. $52 post-shipping, and you get the book, 6 or 7 adventures, a GM screen, dice bag, dice, etc.
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Nov 25, 2015 04:19
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Is more G than TG, but for old nostalgic people GoG is having a big thing that includes some new-fangled "actually runs right" versions of Pool of Radiance etc...: http://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_one http://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_two http://www.gog.com/game/forgotten_realms_the_archives_collection_three http://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_dark_sun_series http://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_krynn_series http://www.gog.com/game/dungeons_dragons_ravenloft_series http://www.gog.com/game/alqadim_the_genies_curse
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Nov 25, 2015 05:29
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I had an idea for my "may someday get finished" retroclone based on TAAC (in turn based on B/X), although it's mutated to the point that calling it a clone isn't really valid any more - and this idea moves it even further away from the systems of D&D. (The reason I want to keep compatibility with B/X and 1e is simply that it lets me use all the old monsters and even adventures with a minimum of conversion, rather than having to come up with everything from scratch.) Anyway, here's the thing: I hate combat in RPGs. Specifically, I hate "My turn. I roll to hit... and miss." [Spends next 5-10 minutes twiddling thumbs while everyone else has their turn.] The way D&D has always worked is slow, boring and at low levels very frustrating. So the idea is... get rid of to-hit rolls entirely.  The new game only has six classes, and the damage each class inflicts in any kind of physical combat is set by the class's Hit Die. Sorcerers use a d4, Outlaws and Elves d6, Priests and Dwarves d8 and Warriors d10. There are no weapons lists, no differentiation between armed, ranged and unarmed combat; when you hit a bad guy with a physical attack, you roll your Hit Die to find out how many, er, hits you deliver. Similarly, monsters go from d4 to d20 damage based on their (B/X or 1e) Hit Dice. So a 1HD orc rolls a d6, while a 9+HD dragon rolls a d20. What I'm thinking is that PCs have two kinds of attack. With a standard attack, they pick a target, roll their Hit Die (and add any bonuses), and deliver that many hits automatically. No rolling to hit; they can't miss. (Think of it as Gygax's idea that each round really consists of multiple strikes, except that in this case at least one will always hit.) Monsters do the same to PCs. The special attack (which I need a good name for), they roll two Hit Dice, add bonuses, then deliver that as damage to their target. A chance to double the impact, but with a catch - if the roll doesn't beat the enemy's AC, they still inflict the rolled damage, but the enemy gets a 'free' counterattack even if the PC kills them. This would be used with a modified version of TAAC's In Melee/Not In Melee system, now called Melee and Support, so the bad guys can't just pig-pile the wizard as he tries to hide at the back. (An enemy who tries to attack someone in Support can be intercepted by a PC in Melee as long as they didn't use a super-attack.) I wanted there to be a bit of tactical play, but without having to start measuring things or using a grid. Do you intercept the monster charging your squishies and risk taking extra hits for your trouble? I've run a few tests, and it seems to work okay even though it's a bit swingy - but it's no more a game of rocket tag than 5e at low levels, and it certainly plays faster! Besides, the new game is intended for one-shot tournament-style adventures with quick character creation, so if your guy dies a replacement turns up as soon as you finish a new character sheet, which hopefully should take under two minutes. (There's some HP recovery after each encounter, so death by sheer attrition isn't inevitable after several fights.) Just wondering if anyone can see any obvious problems, or at least ones that would cause trouble with the intended play style. (Things like "100 peasants with bows can kill a black dragon in one round" aren't an issue, because the PCs won't have the option to round up 100 peasants; it's very much about mission-based scenarios rather than sandboxing.) Also if anyone has questions about how the new system works, I'll try to answer them. Most of the mechanics are already in place, just without the fluff to make the rules as they stand properly readable. One thing I'm already wondering is how to use the PCs' AC, because at the moment it doesn't do anything! Maybe some monsters might also have the option to use super-attacks (with the same risk of failure); I dunno. I don't want to use it as damage soak, because that would make some classes invincible against low-HD enemies. Tl;dr - you don't roll to hit, just damage. Every attack causes some damage, no matter what.
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Dec 1, 2015 23:23
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Payndz posted:Just wondering if anyone can see any obvious problems, or at least ones that would cause trouble with the intended play style. (Things like "100 peasants with bows can kill a black dragon in one round" aren't an issue, because the PCs won't have the option to round up 100 peasants; it's very much about mission-based scenarios rather than sandboxing.) Also if anyone has questions about how the new system works, I'll try to answer them. Most of the mechanics are already in place, just without the fluff to make the rules as they stand properly readable. One thing I'm already wondering is how to use the PCs' AC, because at the moment it doesn't do anything! Maybe some monsters might also have the option to use super-attacks (with the same risk of failure); I dunno. I don't want to use it as damage soak, because that would make some classes invincible against low-HD enemies. Yes. Please keep smashing together good ideas from my favorite RPGs until you have finished your frankenstein-like super RPG. I am excited for this. Re: Player AC, I think the way I would go about it is have the player's armor provide a proportional reduction of monster damage. So, if a monster would do d8 it only rolls d6 against light armor, or d4 against heavy armor. (This is just a modification of having it be flat damage reduction like Into The Odd, of course.) In this case, I would rename monster AC to something that makes more sense like "Riposte Class" or something. Alternately, you could have some sort of rule where monsters that have Special Attacks have to roll against AC to use them and if they miss the target gets to preform a stunt as a counter. So, the good at combat guys get to do this more often (because in B/X the good at combat guys are the ones wearing the heavy armor)
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Dec 2, 2015 06:27
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Payndz posted:Tl;dr - you don't roll to hit, just damage. Every attack causes some damage, no matter what. Sure its technically the same in a way (add damage until dead), but you are removing a step that has reward/imagination value, even though it is not relevant mathematically to the "kill monster" process. (This is a real thing, before some idiot starts harping about tummys and grognards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement#Intermittent_reinforcement.3B_schedules Think slot machines as an easy example.)
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Dec 2, 2015 10:08
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I really like the idea of dismantling the process behind the fight as you do, but I have to agree with FRINGE, as I myself had to find out a in the hard way, there is a core number of players that really like the idea of rollign for hit/miss and need the reinforcement of rolling a dice by themselves because it helps their own perception of the situation. Even worse, even though the situation won´t change, they will claim, to have no real influence on he fight. And another group will claim, that they miss the fun of the additional dice roll. People can be strange.
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Dec 2, 2015 11:45
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Never underestimate the draw of rolling weird dice.
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Dec 2, 2015 11:48
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This is more a general game design commentary than with regards to Payndz's game in particular, since "don't roll to hit" is a big enough central conceit that you couldn't throw it out that easily, but I think a way to revamp the traditional roll to hit mechanic would be to make a 100% hit rate something that you can aim for and achieve, rather than something that's automatically built into the game. Assume a character has something like a 70% base chance to hit, then can improve it by another 10% via gear, then can improve it by another 10% via character progression choices (i.e. feats, class abilities), then can improve it by another 10% via circumstantial bonuses (i.e. flanking).
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Dec 2, 2015 11:52
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Payndz posted:Tl;dr - you don't roll to hit, just damage. Every attack causes some damage, no matter what. Honestly i like the idea and have had simmilar ones but if you're going to remove to hit rolls then really you have to accept that you're playing chess and should format the game more appropriately.
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Dec 2, 2015 12:24
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Incidentally, the new game currently uses the same d20 roll-under-stat for attacks as TAAC; I was considering the new idea as a replacement system, or possibly an alternate one for people (like me) who really want to get through the drudge of combat as quickly as possible. I like DalaranJ's idea for player AC to ensmallen the enemy's Hit Die when they attack, so I might test that. I'll have to rethink the way AC is initially determined, but that should be fairly straightforward.
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Dec 2, 2015 15:46
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Payndz posted:Anyway, here's the thing: I hate combat in RPGs. Specifically, I hate "My turn. I roll to hit... and miss." [Spends next 5-10 minutes twiddling thumbs while everyone else has their turn.] The way D&D has always worked is slow, boring and at low levels very frustrating. 2. Unless compatibility with all old/retro D&D stuff is your goal, I don't see a reason to have "Hit Dice" that mean multiple things, depending, instead of just "Here's your HP, here's your Attack Die." 3. This approach seems to me to be begging for tactical add-ons, like Warriors having some damage resistance that encourages them to sling super-attacks at the risk of not guarding the backline, or Outlaws getting bonuses to them because guarding the backline isn't their job, etc. Or getting bonuses when you roll a specific number/range. Depends on how much you want to add on to a really simple system like TAAC.
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Dec 2, 2015 17:08
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Payndz posted:Tl;dr - you don't roll to hit, just damage. Every attack causes some damage, no matter what. I love rolling dice. Anything that removes dice rolls makes me sad. Also appropriate their was a game called Metascape where that kind of system was implemented but only for the GM. Players still rolled, but the GM NPCs used a formula (an easy one to calculate too!) to determine whether they hit of missed. It made mook swarms a breeze to run and the PCs could roll all the dice.
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Dec 2, 2015 19:57
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FRINGE posted:Some people will love this, but to me it makes battle a direct counting-grind and loses some of the psychological reinforcement of hit/miss/miss/hit... In a dungeon crawling game, I don't want my players to be eager to fight 'because it will be fun', because combat isn't what's fun about dungeon crawling. I want them to know that getting into a fight, at least a fair fight, is a situation where they are choosing to lose a specific resource (one or more character's HP) to solve a problem.
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Dec 3, 2015 03:49
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For some of us, fighting is the fun part.
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Dec 3, 2015 04:18
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I tested the "AC reduces the enemy's damage die" idea, but it just made warriors way too powerful - they start with at least 20hp, so can shrug off multiple attacks from even monsters that would normally use a d20 for damage. Shame, because I liked the idea. So instead I tried making AC work the same for PCs and monsters; if the enemy's damage roll is below it, the PC gets a free counterattack. This worked better, but warriors (who start at AC5 on an ascending scale) still feel overpowered. Oh well, it's still a work in progress.
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Dec 3, 2015 09:29
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Payndz posted:I tested the "AC reduces the enemy's damage die" idea, but it just made warriors way too powerful - they start with at least 20hp, so can shrug off multiple attacks from even monsters that would normally use a d20 for damage. Shame, because I liked the idea. The interesting thing you should always look out for is "overpowered" in relation to what? The other classes? Your own feeling of balance? How BECMI/ADND/3.X/4/? balanced it? I bring this up because it has happened to me, that I nerfed something equal to a warrior class due to their perceived overpoweredness only to learn the hard way, how upsetting game balance in one way can throw you a curveball in another. Suddenly all the other classes feel way more powerful. Or all monster encounters are overpowering death-trips to Create-New-Charactertown. It is only in hindsight and thorough analysis that we can find even that to which we might be blind otherwise.
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Dec 3, 2015 18:12
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Mr.Misfit posted:The interesting thing you should always look out for is "overpowered" in relation to what? The other classes? New idea is to power special attacks with Hero Points, so players can't just go "I special attack" every round and get double damage. They stack, so if a warrior fancied combining max damage, double damage, cleaving and a two-dice boost to a d20 damage die (or whatever) he can, but that'll be everything gone in one go, and he only regains one per successful encounter. Spells, miracles, backstabs, etc will also be powered by Hero Points. Hmm, maybe they should be called something else to avoid confusion with Hit Points?
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Dec 3, 2015 20:12
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I had a dream where your AC dilemma was solved by having it equal the number of rounds until that monster gets off a special attack. Then I woke up, thought about it, and realized it doesn't map well for all B/X monsters and obviously doesn't do anything helpful when there's a negative AC.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:18
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Payndz posted:Compared to the monsters. The test characters were only the equivalent of B/X level 2, but the warrior absolutely annihilated everything, to the point where I put him 10-1 against orcs and he still came out with half his HP intact. Also, you could have special attacks be powered by the results on the monster attack rolls (which the players could roll, if it's important to give the players dice). Fighters could power up by filling in certain patterns, rogues get a vital strike in on attacks that miss by a certain number, clerics could do specials when their holy number or numbers come up.
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Dec 4, 2015 21:20
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Hey, remember when Kevin Crawford was working on an Exalted-ish game? He chagned the name to Godbound and released the latest version of it today.
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Dec 7, 2015 19:58
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Only gave it a quick read, but that looks pretty awesome.
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Dec 8, 2015 02:28
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He's also doing a game set in Tekumel / Empire of the Petal Throne
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Dec 8, 2015 03:24
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Crawford is officially GOAT.
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Dec 8, 2015 04:49
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Evil Mastermind posted:Hey, remember when Kevin Crawford was working on an Exalted-ish game? It's his next Kickstarter AFAIK, and I'm very much looking forward to it.
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Dec 8, 2015 05:12
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I don't know if non D&D games count in here...but I got my copy of Star Wars REUP from the Lulu black friday sale.   The book is standard Lulu fare. The game has relatively few changes. Mostly more examples and a LOT more stats. Excited to get into it.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:34
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I was tinkering with an OSR-inspired game at a couple years or so ago and eventually reached the decision that it actually made sense to do away with attack rolls because of what it was about (fighting giant monsters). Then I found out Into the Odd came to that decision independently and I started thinking maybe I should just use Into the Odd for my game. Considering HP in that game basically amounts to a fatigue threshold rather than meat points (one of your other stats is your meat points), and it was built as a survival horror game, it really felt like it had a similar ethos. But I was also looking at Dungeon World because I wanted to have cinematic stuff in there as well. Hadn't figured out how to reconcile those two things. I might give that one a shot again when things quiet down some.
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Dec 9, 2015 14:40
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DW is also capable of such a thing. A "miss" in that game doesn't necessarily mean you failed to hit/failed to cause any damage, it means you suffer some kind of drawback/hindrance.
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Dec 9, 2015 14:50
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alg posted:I don't know if non D&D games count in here...but I got my copy of Star Wars REUP from the Lulu black friday sale. About how much did that run you?
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Dec 9, 2015 14:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:DW is also capable of such a thing. A "miss" in that game doesn't necessarily mean you failed to hit/failed to cause any damage, it means you suffer some kind of drawback/hindrance. Yeah, I considered doing it in a build based on each game but then I realized I had better just try making one game/hack before trying to get fancy like that. Truth be told, I haven't gotten to run/play Into the Odd yet, but I have long figured that I would probably slip into some Dungeon World-isms when doing so, before I even noticed.
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Dec 9, 2015 14:56
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WaywardWoodwose posted:About how much did that run you? I think it was about $23 with the coupon code.
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Dec 9, 2015 15:09
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Can i get a link? You can e-mail it to me if you'd like. leatherfacexx @ hotmail.com
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Dec 9, 2015 19:11
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This is a thing: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168306/A-Brief-Study-of-TSR-Book-Design quote:This document comes with the original InDesign .IDD source file so that other publishers can load it up and strip it for parts and styles. All of the book styles described have been recreated in InDesign paragraph styles that other publishers can use in their own personal or commercial products, as well as the blank tables and other page objects. An .IDML file is also provided for people using the free Scribus layout software or recent earlier versions of InDesign. I have no indesign skills, but I assume some of you do.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:13
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