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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:Cool, that's a relief. I'll still be gazing at it forlornly, I bet, but the game as it exists right now was worth the price of admission anyway. Knowing there's more coming down the line is both tantalizing and excruciating. The game is mostly finished, but the things still coming are town events and the final dungeon itself known as the darkest dungeon. Still we're only a month before release now  so you've probably got some time to learn the game basics, try the 4 main dungeons out and learn the classes. You have to get your party up to high level before you can even enter the Darkest Dungeon.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:29
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Zaphod42 posted:The game is mostly finished, but the things still coming are town events and the final dungeon itself known as the darkest dungeon. Mostly did that already! Well, getting my toes wet in the first four dungeons, getting a grip on the basics and trying out the classes, anyway. Haven't gotten too deep into Veteran content yet, got wrecked by a swine cart contraption of sorts that left my entire A-Team afflicted before giving up the ghost and I was like gently caress that noise, we out. It's cool to know that the Darkest Dungeon itself is high level content but I think at this point I'd rather just play the entire game through with all of the content including the last class and the town events. Or maybe I'll go back to the seat of my ancestral line tonight, who can say.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:37
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:Cool, that's a relief. I'll still be gazing at it forlornly, I bet, but the game as it exists right now was worth the price of admission anyway. Knowing there's more coming down the line is both tantalizing and excruciating. The game already has a pretty great modding community who have added in a ton of workable class variants. It's probably not worth it to mod right now because everything breaks every patch, but I'm pretty sure we're gonna have that poo poo modded in for everyone soon after release
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Dec 7, 2015 17:39
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I tried my first foray into the Cove today, and I've got to say, thank god I packed medicinal herbs. I'm wondering if there are any debuffs that herbs won't fix, other than the ones that don't use the orange debuff icon. I might try keeping them around when I have a Hellion in my roster again, to counteract the self-debuffs that come with her badassery.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:26
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PD isn't mandatory for cove if you're willing to give up your trinket slots and spend extra money. You're giving up quite a bit just to not bring someone that perfectly fits that entire dungeon. I'll have to go play some until I find out the exact damage rates on the blight attacks, but even at 2 for 3 rounds you're taking 7 dmg (dot+hit, something like 12 on a crit) on 2 guys that have low 20s for hp. The mushroom fight isn't going to clean you out I agree, but if you get a mushroom fight and a 4-dog fight there is a pretty good chance your run is done. After you get a few levels you have better dodge, hp, heals, more likely to be able to slot a cure effect, etc so it gets a ton easier. I guess I would be less annoyed if deeds weren't the #1 thing you need for town upgrading. The cove and the warrens have other things that make running them very good, so slightly higher difficulty there isn't a bad thing. I'll go try out a different start plan to see if that changes how I feel. Pittsburgh: the herbs healing debuffs is new this patch! However, if you save them to use on glowing corral you'll get something nice.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:46
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:I tried my first foray into the Cove today, and I've got to say, thank god I packed medicinal herbs. I'm wondering if there are any debuffs that herbs won't fix, other than the ones that don't use the orange debuff icon. Anything that's marked by the two orange arrows is fixable. They fix 'until camp' debuffs, Jester/Hellion self-debuffs, trap debuffs, etc. It's very expensive to use them on a Hellion, but sometimes very worth it
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Dec 7, 2015 21:48
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ZypherIM posted:PD isn't mandatory for cove if you're willing to give up your trinket slots and spend extra money. You're giving up quite a bit just to not bring someone that perfectly fits that entire dungeon. I haven't been playing this game for very long but I think you're talking about the Weald, not the Cove. Mushrooms, dogs and Deed quest rewards are all Weald things.
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Dec 7, 2015 21:59
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I was replying to 2 different posts, I'm pretty lazy about actually quoting people though. 3 posts actually, counting the last line. You're right though, the first bit is about cove, the main part is about the weald.
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Dec 7, 2015 22:10
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ZypherIM posted:PD isn't mandatory for cove if you're willing to give up your trinket slots and spend extra money. You're giving up quite a bit just to not bring someone that perfectly fits that entire dungeon. Yeah, a stack of bandages generally does just fine. You wind up 1000-2500 gold poorer (between buying the bandages and losing a loot slot), but just consider that part of the cost of all of the free quirk treatment the Cove offers 
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Dec 7, 2015 22:16
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Well technically it isn't free quirk removal, but cheaper (200 per, it is a great deal). And bringing a PD purely for removal is the same as just saying you're making 1000-2500 over not bringing her. The rest of her kit works really nicely for the place too. I mean once you're in a situation where you feel that you don't mind giving that up it is one thing, but until you get there that is a pretty big tax to not bring her. Depending on turn order that you get a lot of times you can avoid the damage completely too. I guess its a view I'm taking of an estate that isn't capped out, with heroes that aren't all capped out. Does anyone have a setup they really like for the warrens? I tend to almost never go there, mostly from back in the days of vomit pigs dishing out diseases constantly. Also a lot of the annoying enemies don't lose their attacks based on position, so everything feels sort of like you just need to apply max damage all the time. Compared to the other places, where you can often muck with enemy party order to prevent a lot of damage/stress, or clever plays like that.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:10
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Hmmm, OK after playing a bit with the new settings I would say the game is pretty unbalanced atm, you can't expect everyone to have grinded up a poo poo ton of wealth to have a buffer in case they wipe a few times. Can't believe I'm saying this, but Jim Sterling's arguments about the game and EA are basically right.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:14
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FourLeaf posted:Hmmm, OK after playing a bit with the new settings I would say the game is pretty unbalanced atm, you can't expect everyone to have grinded up a poo poo ton of wealth to have a buffer in case they wipe a few times. You can always hire level 0s for free, send them on a mission, and then sack them right afterwards for zero cost and free income. Buy a few food and torches and its easy to make a couple thousand.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:21
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FourLeaf posted:Hmmm, OK after playing a bit with the new settings I would say the game is pretty unbalanced atm, you can't expect everyone to have grinded up a poo poo ton of wealth to have a buffer in case they wipe a few times. You have infinite money in this game, the only finite resource is resolve levels.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:23
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Early on heroes are disposable and later on you'll hopefully have learned when to bail and shouldn't really be blindsided by any boss gimmicks. It's pretty hard to wipe unexpectedly unless you're wandering in the dark and get eaten by a
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Dec 7, 2015 23:30
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You're gonna have to start a new game to even enter the Darkest Dungeon once that is released right?
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Dec 7, 2015 23:33
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Internet Kraken posted:You're gonna have to start a new game to even enter the Darkest Dungeon once that is released right? I haven't seen any mention of such a thing but good lord the butthurt that would generate would be glorious.
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Dec 7, 2015 23:40
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Gabriel Pope posted:Yeah, a stack of bandages generally does just fine. You wind up 1000-2500 gold poorer (between buying the bandages and losing a loot slot), but just consider that part of the cost of all of the free quirk treatment the Cove offers The Cove is so amazing for curios which is the sole reason I tolerate going there FourLeaf posted:Hmmm, OK after playing a bit with the new settings I would say the game is pretty unbalanced atm, you can't expect everyone to have grinded up a poo poo ton of wealth to have a buffer in case they wipe a few times. I just started a fresh, ungrinded estate and I'm doing just fine. Also you can recover from any wipe.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:26
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Soothing Vapors posted:I just started a fresh, ungrinded estate and I'm doing just fine. Also you can recover from any wipe. Same here, my body count is slightly higher than it was before the patch, but it's nothing unmanageable. Granted I had about 100 hours of experience beforehand, so I knew what I was doing. If someone were to just start, I can see it feeling like getting thrown in the deep end. However, once you get a grasp on the mechanics the early levels shouldn't be too much of an issue baring unlucky streaks.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:45
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Zaphod42 posted:You can always hire level 0s for free, send them on a mission, and then sack them right afterwards for zero cost and free income. Buy a few food and torches and its easy to make a couple thousand. Normal Adult Human posted:You have infinite money in this game, the only finite resource is resolve levels. Dudes, you don't need to tell me this, I posted earlier in the thread about how I used disposable teams until I had grinded up over ~150,000 gold. I think I'll just play something else until the final release in January; it's a bit disconcerting now to have the difficulty constantly fluctuating. Zombie Samurai posted:It's pretty clear they want the game to be a tooth-and-nail struggle the whole way through. Every time they identify a "safe" or at least reliable strategy, they seem to stamp it out. They want your characters to die, and they want your victories to be narrowly won. Which is really exactly what they've promised the whole time. It's just that two issues have developed that are in the way of that goal. Overall I agree with this, as someone who's been playing since July. Can't imagine how backers feel.
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Dec 8, 2015 01:16
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Running disposable teams to grind up a huge amount of gold, or badly running level 0s through dungeons are both really bad ways to generate wealth. I pretty much completely disagree with what you agree with in that quote. The game isn't close to a tooth-and-nail struggle all the way through, but it is hard and requires smart play all the time. It is hard to make up lost ground during a dungeon in general, and most of the stuff that gets outright nerfed are things people are doing to try to recover (chain stun to heal, etc). The current tools are enough if you're managing fights well, and are good enough that some bad crit luck is still manageable. I mean, as long as you're able to actually completely dark runs then you know full light isn't nearly as hard. Most of the changes are nerfs to exploitative/boring strategies and/or additions that make things more interesting. Anti-stalling mechanic, corpses, and new skill riders for interaction. Those are the big changes I can think of off-hand that aren't skill tweaks and stuff, and none of them are designed around making the game straight up harder, but more interesting. If there are more big ones I'm not remembering feel free to remind me. Outside of a really unlucky string of events, you only really risk losing someone if you keep pushing. If you're more willing to fail dungeons then you have very little risk to actually losing a hero. Maybe the darkest dungeon will be different, but even at that point you still have your town developed. One addition I'd like to see is after you kill all the level 1 bosses, if you could build something in town for money+heirlooms that makes all new guys be +1 resolve level. After beating all the level 3 bosses, another +1 so new guys are level 2, and after all the veteran bosses a third +1. That way you save some time, losing a guy still sucks from needing replacement and buying him skills/equipment, but you have an easier time working them up.
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Dec 8, 2015 02:58
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Gabriel Pope posted:You wind up 1000-2500 gold poorer (between buying the bandages and losing a loot slot), You know you can shift-click to discard stuff during a run right? Even if you don't use all your bandages you can discard any left over towards the end of a mission to pick up more loot. All you lose is the initial cost. ZypherIM posted:PD isn't mandatory for cove if you're willing to give up your trinket slots and spend extra money. You're giving up quite a bit just to not bring someone that perfectly fits that entire dungeon. I dunno maybe I need to try her again after this latest patch, but she's never been one of my favourite classes. She has some nice utility but at the end of the day I'd rather just have more upfront DPS in most situations. By ditching her in favour of trinks/bandages I can bring whatever classes I want and not have to fit PD into my party makeup.
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Dec 8, 2015 11:48
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Wafflecopper posted:You know you can shift-click to discard stuff during a run right? Even if you don't use all your bandages you can discard any left over towards the end of a mission to pick up more loot. All you lose is the initial cost. You can also use stuff real quick while you're in the middle of looting. I often go to loot, realize I can only pick up 2 of the 3 items, and then I either toss something or use a bandage or antidote real quick.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:24
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Wafflecopper posted:You know you can shift-click to discard stuff during a run right? Even if you don't use all your bandages you can discard any left over towards the end of a mission to pick up more loot. All you lose is the initial cost. Sure, but this is only true if you get a huge haul at the end of the run/only have 1 or 2 stacks of supplies left. Say you're on an exploration run, fairly low on health, and the last hallway and room is unscouted--you're going to want to hold onto your last 4 food in case of starvation, your last shovel in case there's a barricade, and you're probably still going to want to hold onto your bandages in case of crab. If the end of the hall/last room is empty... welp, there goes 75% of your potential profit. Even if there's a fight and/or treasure, there's no guarantee you're going to get enough loot to fill up 3 slots, and it probably won't be full stacks if you do. You can jettison supplies earlier, of course, but then a bad starvation event/barricade can jeopardize the mission and/or risk peoples' lives.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:33
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Gabriel Pope posted:Say you're on an exploration run, fairly low on health, and the last hallway and room is unscouted--you're going to want to hold onto your last 4 food in case of starvation, your last shovel in case there's a barricade, and you're probably still going to want to hold onto your bandages in case of crab. If the end of the hall/last room is empty... welp, there goes 75% of your potential profit. Even if there's a fight and/or treasure, there's no guarantee you're going to get enough loot to fill up 3 slots, and it probably won't be full stacks if you do. True, but in my mind this is part of the risk/reward that makes the game exciting. The whole game is basically resource management and press-your-luck risk taking In the scenario. you describe I ditch the food and the shovel every time, stagger down that last hallway, and commend the fate of my squad of assholes into the hands of an uncaring god.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:50
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ZypherIM posted:
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Dec 8, 2015 17:28
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So I haven't played in a while and the collector is new  So is the Shambler but I managed to kill it, got an ancestral heirloom out of it, which was nice, but it euthanized the rest of that dungeon run.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:36
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Coolguye posted:They've already said that retreat is not an option in the Darkest Dungeon. So yes, it will be different in that respect. I would have to imagine that a dungeon with a no retreat aspect is going to have to be a single big expedition: You go there to beat the game rather than to collect loot and treasure. You can throw a party in there and lose them, but once they're in they're not coming out until the game is over, so you just fill your inventory with all the stuff you might need and don't bother collecting treasure.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:21
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Lotish posted:I would have to imagine that a dungeon with a no retreat aspect is going to have to be a single big expedition: You go there to beat the game rather than to collect loot and treasure. You can throw a party in there and lose them, but once they're in they're not coming out until the game is over, so you just fill your inventory with all the stuff you might need and don't bother collecting treasure. Actually, no, the devs have said the plan is for there to be several missions into the Darkest Dungeon and you get your guys back if they win.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:25
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Is the Ancestor's Map just not available from a long champion reward? I have everything else, I think.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:34
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Lotish posted:I would have to imagine that a dungeon with a no retreat aspect is going to have to be a single big expedition: You go there to beat the game rather than to collect loot and treasure. You can throw a party in there and lose them, but once they're in they're not coming out until the game is over, so you just fill your inventory with all the stuff you might need and don't bother collecting treasure. Gabriel Pope posted:Actually, no, the devs have said the plan is for there to be several missions into the Darkest Dungeon and you get your guys back if they win. Yeah, this was actually a big miscommunication back when they said what was up with the final dungeon. The initial release said it was going to be 'a one-way trip', which naturally led people to believe that the parties you sent in there were gone for good. People got mad because throwing a bunch of max-resolve dudes into a black hole sounds massively unfun, and they clarified later and said "no we just meant that the little retreat flag is disabled." People were substantially more OK with that.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:36
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Heroes losing random trinkets during gambling or other means is kind of annoying. From a design perspective I can't see how careful item micro-management that requires you to unload your heroes after every mission is a positive addition to the game.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:46
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Good news, no need to unequip them, they will gamble away your poo poo whether or not it is actually in their possession 
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Dec 8, 2015 20:53
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Yea unless you absolutely need the cash, don't actually sell the bullshit trinkets you know you'll never use. If you've got 1 good trinket and 5 bullshit ones, there is a much lower chance of actually losing the good one. PD fits in nicely as a slot 3 or 4 person. I personally take the stun, two blight skills, and dot removal. For some bosses you might want to switch some of that up. If you're running an occultist you can stick him in slot 3 so he can still dagger poo poo (usually dagger, heal, back-aoe, 4th wild card). Front two is basically whatever flavor of front line you like, since you've got decent damage potential already. Personally I've started liking man-at-arms over crusader or leper. His guard is obviously really nice for a lot of situations, but the main thing is his attacks and poo poo hit the front 3 ranks. Hellion in slot 1 with MAA in slot 2, or MAA in slot 1 with abomination in slot 2 are really nice. He does less straight up damage, but it is easier to put that damage where it matters, and with his stun having a knockback you can often get an enemy out of position and using lovely skills in addition to the stun. Also, he is the only tanky guy that will go with the abomination, both the crusader and the leper refuse. So try out a PD-Occ-MAA-Hell group in cove. You can basically choose any enemy slot to murderize, and PD's dot removal straight counters the crab and gives you the "need to remove from DD 100% gently caress you occultist". Vestal works as well, though I feel occultist has better damage potential and you don't really need another guy with a stun (you've already got 3!). I find myself not using a lot of bounty hunter or grave robbers these days, I think mainly off of how low their base damage is. They're nice in how they can hit tons of spots with skills, but other options either can do as well, or offer something else.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:40
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ZypherIM posted:I find myself not using a lot of bounty hunter or grave robbers these days, I think mainly off of how low their base damage is. They're nice in how they can hit tons of spots with skills, but other options either can do as well, or offer something else. Grave robber has always been a bit shabby, but she's getting there. She's got super high speed and crit, Flashing Daggers is ok damage, Lunge is perfectly acceptable single target damage even before the crazy crits, and her darts suck but they turn ok against really high prot enemies. Still weak, but usable. Camp skills suck though. Bounty Hunter has one of the strongest and most flexible stuns in the game and it also has a shuffle rider! He's basically Flashbang: The Class, although it was also a huge help when they added the bonus damage vs. humans to his main attack. It's situational, but being able to bust out big damage against random cultists 
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Dec 8, 2015 23:05
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Yeah GR and BH are my least used classes, but they're also the most versatile. They may not fit as well into your perfect party composition as other classes, but when poo poo hits the fan and all your guys get their marching order mixed up, they're amazing.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:08
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It's been several months since I last played since I'm waiting for the full release to jump back in. Did they ever get the jester to a good place? Last I played his camping skills were good, his buff weren't worth using, and passable bleed skills were his only half decent options in combat.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:27
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BHs dominate so hard in a marking team that it'd be hard to buff them without completely changing how marks work. Which is fine by me, because they are dumb.I dont know posted:It's been several months since I last played since I'm waiting for the full release to jump back in. Did they ever get the jester to a good place? Last I played his camping skills were good, his buff weren't worth using, and passable bleed skills were his only half decent options in combat.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:34
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah GR and BH are my least used classes... I use both of those pretty frequently, my least used classes are Highwayman and Jester by far.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:39
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Kly posted:I use both of those pretty frequently, my least used classes are Highwayman and Jester by far. Yeah I left out Jester. He's cool but not powerful enough. Highwayman can be pretty solid although he feels a little weaker than he used to. I try to vary up my party compositions, so if I'm using 4 specific classes on my A-team I'll go out of my way to use a different composition for my B-team. Add losing some people here in there into the mix and I end up playing with most of the classes at least a little. Jester and Graverobber the least though for sure.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:50
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The Jester's bleed attacks are actually pretty legit, but the rest of his skillset is garbage outside of a situational buff (the stress recovery would be decent to have except it's incompatible with any decent attacks.)
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Dec 9, 2015 00:01
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