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shovelbum posted:The hero is a man 200 years out of time, maybe the only one in the world, ripped from the Old World and shoved into the wastelands without 200 years as a ghoul or having been only a baby or anything else. He's completely singular in the entire series as a pre-war human (not just a Vault Dweller) confronting the wasteland. The wife and baby seem almost secondary really, the protag in 4 lost his entire world (except his robot butler but again, the robots mostly got there the slow way, living through 200 years+ of emerging wastelands). You're not just some schmuck with a family, you're one of the most unique characters in the whole series. See, this is what I mean about FO4 having cool ideas that just don't do anything. Other than interview with Piper and some rare misc moments of dialogue you never get any points of like "I remember places like these, I remember this place in particular, I remember when this stuff wasn't dead to the world" and so on. I mean you might as well be just some vault dweller guy for as much as they use your pre-war life, past being mad/sad that your family is gone. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 23:56
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it really is cool to see poo poo from different angles tho
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Dec 8, 2015 23:59
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Yardbomb posted:See, this is what I mean about FO4 having cool ideas that just don't do anything. Other than interview with Piper and some rare misc moments of dialogue you never get any points of like "I remember places like these, I remember this place in particular, I remember when this stuff wasn't dead to the world" and so on. I mean you might as well be just some vault dweller guy for as much as they use your pre-war life, past being mad/sad that your family is gone.  important plot conversations might as well be cinematics with how railroaded you are in the conversations. In fact, I bet that would be received better than giving players this paper thin illusion of choice where you can ask about Shaun, ask about Shaun angrily or ask about Shaun sarcastically
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Dec 9, 2015 00:02
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Bholder posted:I still don't know why you guys have so much trouble "roleplaying" in Fallout 4. Is it the voice? You cannot immerse yourself when you hear someone else talking? I might agree with it, but from my experience you never speak unless you are prompted to and the worst are when your character starts thinking out loud but those cases are rare and Fallout 2 did it too. The problem really isn't with "roleplaying," it's that they wanted your character to be a very specific guy while teasing the appearance of creating anybody!* But ultimately you're just changing what your Gordon from Half-Life looks like. Everyone in the game treats him like Gordon, each of his dialogue options is something Gordon would say. It's just now Gordon's name is Fuckbat and haha what a dumb face he has! Fallout 1/2 were noteworthy in that they were incredibly accommodating for the time - you could play your character nearly any way you wanted, with the game world making allowances and reacting. IIRC, both games could be completed with only a handful of killing if you wanted to play a peaceful character. (Hell, you could even talk down the Master.) What you did in each settlement contributed to its endstate. FO4 gives you about one meaningful choice, and it's "which faction's scripted ending do you want to see?" *"Anybody" must include (but is not limited to): sounding like a white dork, heterosexually married, has a son named Shaun, wife named Nora / husband named Howard, robot butler named Codsworth, US Citizen, was a lawyer or soldier, etc etc.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:08
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moths posted:The problem really isn't with "roleplaying," it's that they wanted your character to be a very specific guy No, they didn't.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:12
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Bholder posted:No, they didn't. Come on dude, you come from a clear background in that you were a war man that fought in Alaska/lady that worked as a lawyer or has a law degree something or other, you and your wife/husband had a baby and they are Shaun, it feels like there's a bunch of situations where you basically have no option say "No" to people in need or otherwise, you do have "Violent" attitude options here and there but they're definitely a minority and usually pretty "Good" violence in the situations anyway, you have no choices when speaking to Kellogg that are anything but Seething/Frothing Rage, for a bunch of the game it seemingly expects you to be torn up over your wife you practically never knew. There's no need to try and deny a lot of railroading is present. NecroMonster posted:In fallout 1, fallout 2, and fallout: NV you are, with the exception of a non-descriptive bit of background information, whoever you want to be. This is even true, to a lesser extent, of fallout 3. Yeah pretty much this, thank you. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 00:18
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In fallout 1, fallout 2, and fallout: NV you are, with the exception of a non-descriptive bit of background information, whoever you want to be. This is even true, to a lesser extent, of fallout 3. This isn't true of fallout 4.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:20
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Yardbomb posted:Come on dude, you come from a clear background in that you were a war man that fought in Alaska, it feels like there's a bunch of situations where you basically have no option say "No" to people in need or otherwise, you do have "Violent" attitude options here and there but they're definitely a minority and usually pretty "Good" violence in the situations anyway, you have no choices when speaking to Kellogg that are anything but Seething/Frothing Rage, for a bunch of the game it seemingly expects you to be torn up over your wife you practically never knew. There's no need to try and deny a lot of railroading is present. everyone do this and then stop this endless circle of violence
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Dec 9, 2015 00:22
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There's some railroading but probably not to a particularly unusual extent for the genre. I agree the real issue, such as it is, is the fact that your background doesn't get used much. You were a very specific creature in Torment and they built the whole game around connecting with that. This guy barely does anything except correct people about the rules of baseball.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:22
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The worst part of Fallout 4 might be this thread
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Dec 9, 2015 00:25
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How do I continue using mods again? I tried running Fallout4.exe, but it ran the launcher anyway (which removed all my mods).
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Dec 9, 2015 00:25
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shovelbum posted:This guy barely does anything except correct people about the rules of baseball. I wish there was some more like that, that was actually one of the "rare misc moments of dialogue" I had in mind. Fereydun posted:click on his post history for this thread and understand why there is no point in responding to him I'm trying Fereydun. I struggle enough with MisterBibs but sometimes I can't help but 
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Dec 9, 2015 00:25
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shovelbum posted:There's some railroading but probably not to a particularly unusual extent for the genre. I agree the real issue, such as it is, is the fact that your background doesn't get used much. You were a very specific creature in Torment and they built the whole game around connecting with that. This guy barely does anything except correct people about the rules of baseball. Not for the genre, no. But for this game series? yes. Mind you, a game where you are playing a predefined character (often times the way you want to play that predefined character) and a game where you play a character (nearly) wholly of your own creation aren't really better than one or the other. The real issue is that fallout 4 both cannot decide itself which one of the two it is, and can't actually deliver on the requirements to make either of those concepts work. Hell, in many ways, this isn't even a writing failure, rather it's a design failure, of both focus and scope.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:27
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The robots on the Constitution were friendly to me because their scan showed I was in the army, how does that play out for the female lawyer protagonist
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Dec 9, 2015 00:28
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Dr. Abysmal posted:The robots on the Constitution were friendly to me because their scan showed I was in the army, how does that play out for the female lawyer protagonist I forget, I think someone mentioned that they throw the draft at you.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:29
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The Lone Badger posted:How do I continue using mods again? I tried running Fallout4.exe, but it ran the launcher anyway (which removed all my mods). You need to edit your plugins file (it's in %appdata%local/fallout4) and set it as read only. Not sure about running the game through a 3rd party launcher, I only use one mod as of yet so I haven't bothered to try.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:29
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Jay Rust posted:The worst part of Fallout 4 might be this thread It's a great game and I hope we see a refinement on the systems it's set up in this "generation", just like 2 and NV had such solid foundations to build really incredible games on. This series has spoiled us that way. Edit: the settlements are goofy but the system is a game changer.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:29
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I would argue that it's an absolutely loving excellent game, held back from being an instant and enduring classic thanks to a number of design and story telling flaws.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:31
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Jay Rust posted:The worst part of Fallout 4 might be this thread Yardbomb posted:I'm trying Fereydun. I struggle enough with MisterBibs but sometimes I can't help but war... war never changes.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:32
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Help I'm serious posting right now for some reason instead of slacking off and/or being an rear end and if someone posts another stupid argument I might actually attempt to engage them meaningfully I don't know what is wrong with me.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:33
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What I'm getting out of this thread is that some people lack the imagination to play a character as presented to them. I like to picture as people that flunked out of acting school. They gave my character a NAME?! And I commit suicide at the end?! What kind of poo poo travelling salesman is this anyway, if in fact my character is a salesman AT ALL, I pictured myself as more of an actuary
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Dec 9, 2015 00:34
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Yardbomb posted:I forget, I think someone mentioned that they throw the draft at you. They determine that she's a US citizen by cross-referencing her face with DMV records or something, which also includes the lawyer occupation. Then they throw a draft at her.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:34
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coyo7e posted:The thing is, that Fallout 3 is almost pitch-perfect "The Hero With A Thousand Faces" material. You know that you grew up slightly ostracized because *reasons* and you have no emotional baggage to stay because *mom's dead and dad's already outside - aka "reasons"*, and then you leave because something happened that pushed you over the edge and reminded you that you don't really belong in the vault with everybody else and have bigger things to accomplish, whereas the story of 99% of humanity would begin and end with "you grew up in this vault, you're normal, and you will live here your whole life and die here." The protagonist has to be singled out as different otherwise they cannot be set up to go on a big life/world-changing mission. That's been the standard for every fallout game and for all the TES games I can think of as well, just a "you're different - get to it!" and then you're left to pursue or ignore the story as you like. This is probably four pages back because of how fast this thread moves, but what a bunch of bullshit! You're basically describing two extremely similar scenarios (you have a good family life in spite of potential warning signs that not all is quite right, tragedy occurs, and you're soon trekking trough the wasteland in search of your last living family member) and saying that this one is a perfect setup for a hero's journey whereas this one isn't is you whitewashing the gently caress out of Fallout 3's garbage opening. If anything Fallout 4 is better about it because the entire world you once knew being consumed in nuclear fire is a hell of a lot more straightforward and engaging than "the Overseer is so mad that this guy left the vault that he decided to tell his security guards to kill his teenage son/daughter on sight."
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Dec 9, 2015 00:34
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Azhais posted:What I'm getting out of this thread is that some people lack the imagination to play a character as presented to them. I like to picture as people that flunked out of acting school. *starts grinding teeth together* must... fight... urge
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Dec 9, 2015 00:36
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NecroMonster posted:I would argue that it's an absolutely loving excellent game, held back from being an instant and enduring classic thanks to a number of design and story telling flaws. Agreed, and honestly New Vegas might not have been the enduring classic that it seems to be without some excellent DLC and a robust mod scene.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:36
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Yeah FO3 had an extremely garbage intro and an even worse ending (until the retcon in whatever expansion). edit: Except the Tunnel Snakes, they were cool and good wyoak fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 00:36
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As much as I nag the game, yeah I'm enjoying myself times more than I did with 3 though. Like 4 has a bunch of wasted potential on some bits, but there are at least other parts I've liked for one thing or another. 3 was just "Uuuuugh" for most of the run-time.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:38
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I didn't like how chopped up the overworld was in 3, roaming Boston is a lot more fun than the relatively dull and uninteresting Vegas outskirts or the smaller areas that made up DC. It's great how vertical things are, especially.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:40
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4 also has some neat companions that I'd like to know more about upon meeting them, as compared to 3 where I remember Dogmeat because Dog, a ghoul mercenary I think guy who refused to push the button at the end, a super mutant who refused to push the button at the end and that's honestly all I can name off without looking up the rest.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:43
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Yardbomb posted:4 also has some neat companions that I'd like to know more about upon meeting them, as compared to 3 where I remember Dogmeat because Dog, a ghoul mercenary I think guy who refused to push the button at the end, a super mutant who refused to push the button at the end and that's honestly all I can name off without looking up the rest. I think there was some chick you could buy from the slavers too
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Dec 9, 2015 00:45
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Is it only Bethesda games where you get promoted to the head of an organisation and get given missions to do without having any real say in the way the organisation is run, eg Preston Garvey/the Minutemen? Or do other RPGs from other developers do this?
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Dec 9, 2015 00:47
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What's worse writing, FO3's YOU MUST PRESS THE BUTTON THAT KILLS YOU even though Fawkes or Charon can do it just fine, and even that one slave girl refuses even though it should be literally impossible for her to, or FO4's LET'S NUKE THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED PLACE IN THE WORLD instead of taking its extremely advanced tech that we need or the endless supplies of clean food and water?Darth Ronson posted:Is it only Bethesda games where you get promoted to the head of an organisation and get given missions to do without having any real say in the way the organisation is run, eg Preston Garvey/the Minutemen? Or do other RPGs from other developers do this? Bethesda has a weird hard-on for giving the players enormous accolades for no reason (all the loving storylines in Skyrim ended up with you being the SUPER COOL MAGIC CHOSEN ONE and skyrocketing to the top of whatever guild it was), but obviously it would be impossible to program in that many choices so all the titles you get are entirely hollow. I don't get why they feel that the player needs to be so congratulated at every single step, especially if it means nothing at all. They also refuse to gate content behind anything ever. Kite Pride Worldwide fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 00:47
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NecroMonster posted:In fallout 1, fallout 2, and fallout: NV you are, with the exception of a non-descriptive bit of background information, whoever you want to be. This is even true, to a lesser extent, of fallout 3. It isn't true for the rest either. In case you missed it, you are either the vault Dweller, the descendant of said vault dweller or a package courier. New Vegas is the odd one out with a more flexible background meanwhile Fallout 1 literally forces you to do the main quest in time otherwise you lose and cannot continue. In all of these games there are dialogue options that tells you more about your character's background, be it your family, your first lover. Again, how is having a family with a named wife and son any different than having a named aunt, grandpa and whatever your Overseer is supposed to be to you. Heck, you are supposed to feel sad when they just excile you at the end of Fallout 1 even though they were always jerks. Your dialog choices were always pre-written and to progress sometimes you had to say certain things in one established way. This has been a thing since forever, not just with Fallout, but most other RPGs. Only exception in Fallout 4 is that you can hear your own voice. That's it. Railroading quests is not the same thing, it's a different issue altogether. Not to mention this whole "SO MANY CHOICES" thing is extremely romanticised when it comes to the classic games. Most of your choices ended up about whether you did a quest or not, or in some cases when you finished a quest by allying to a opposing party. Quests like this can be found even in Fallout 4 because they are not that big of a deal to make. There are a number of quests that can only be done in one certain way, like in Fallout 1 when somebody asks you to help get rid of all the raiders in his farm, your only option is to kill them all. The multiple paths are mostly in the main quest areas but even then the end case is the same, even if you decide to go full diplomacy, you are literally talking people to death.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:48
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Darth Ronson posted:Is it only Bethesda games where you get promoted to the head of an organisation and get given missions to do without having any real say in the way the organisation is run, eg Preston Garvey/the Minutemen? Or do other RPGs from other developers do this? Happens in Dragon Age a bit, with the Wardens and the Inquisition.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:50
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Alabaster White posted:What's worse writing, FO3's YOU MUST PRESS THE BUTTON THAT KILLS YOU even though Fawkes or Charon can do it just fine, and even that one slave girl refuses even though it should be literally impossible for her to, or FO4's LET'S NUKE THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY ADVANCED PLACE IN THE WORLD instead of taking its extremely advanced tech that we need or the endless supplies of clean food and water? I feel like 3's is dumber on plain old face value. Like I have two perfectly able men here (Charon and Fawkes there we go) who could roll around and smile in as much radiation as they'd like, but instead I get some "BUT THOU MUST, YOUR DESTINY" type excuse. 4's is dumber on a "Wait, are you serious? You're just throwing it all in a nuclear dumpster fire?" point.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:55
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i don't see the brotherhood being so hard-nosed about the institute as nonsensical. this bos seems super reactionary. even the mojave brotherhood led by mcnamarra who seems relatively mild won't adopt patently obvious beneficial technologies even at the cost of their own existence. the railroad maybe not so much, but maybe they just don't want to take any chances. either way i kind of like that you don't get to speech check any of the factions to compromise. they're all zealots in their own way, with their own agendas and they won't be steered from that. it's still bad that you don't get to investigate or contradict their stances, and the story is still pretty bad... but i like that the brotherhood went back to being jerks instead of saviors of the capital wasteland. never did trust them with the water purifier. probably would have enacted president eden's plan if they knew about it. by the time fo4 happens they're probably thirsting out the settlements that don't toe the line/aren't sufficiently human.
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Dec 9, 2015 00:55
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Cojawfee posted:No you can't. Your back story for New Vegas is "courier." That's exactly the same as the main character in this game being in the army or a lawyer. Yes you can. There is *no* indication as to what you did before being a courier. You could have been a scavenger, prospector, raider, a regular jack off, etc. Fallout 4 says YOU WERE A LAWYER or SOLDIER and that's that.
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Dec 9, 2015 01:03
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Also since I posted about it the other day, in regards to that database breach the nexus had: Pretty good news! "I am now in possession of the database dump, that was first reported on Reddit, via university security networks, and I can confirm several things. First, the database dump is "old", with the last member in the database having registered on July 22nd 2013. If you're one of the 4.2 million users who registered on Nexus Mods after this date, your details are not included in this database dump and are therefore considered "safe". Second, the database dump isn't a complete database rip. The dump contains user IDs, usernames, email addresses, hashes and salts, and that's it. It does not contain cracked passwords i.e. anyone with access to the dump would need to attempt to crack the hashes and salts themselves in order to get any sort of use out of them on the site. From this we can conclude a further two things. Firstly, that it's relatively safe to assume that whoever made this dump no longer has access to our database. Why? Because if they did, they'd have released a much more up-to-date dump of our member database. It would make sense they no longer have any access, considering we've patched up a lot of holes, applied countless security updates and switched to a far more secure database cluster system since July of 2013. Second, if you've updated your password since July 2013, your account on the Nexus sites should be safe and secure, as they will not have your new hashes/salts/password information. If you have not updated your password recently, please do so now as I am now personally confident that there have been no recent breaches of our network or databases. Similarly, if you still use the password you were using in July 2013, or before that date, on any other sites or services you should update them immediately." etc etc "To my knowledge, we have not seen any further suspicious activity in the file database at this time." Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 9, 2015 |
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Dec 9, 2015 01:04
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shovelbum posted:Agreed, and honestly New Vegas might not have been the enduring classic that it seems to be without some excellent DLC and a robust mod scene. I'm just glad they gave Obsidian the time to patch and fix poo poo. Remember KOTOR 2?
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Dec 9, 2015 01:04
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Magmarashi posted:I'm just glad they gave Obsidian the time to patch and fix poo poo. Remember KOTOR 2?
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