Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Sorry CI, this time it's different.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 14:08

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:10

jet sanchEz: Oct 24, 2001; Lousy Manipulative Dog

In the summer I told a co-worker that the dollar would be at 72 cents by the end of the year and he guffawed. I'll have to track him down today and bask in my triumph.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 14:18

Seat Safety Switch: May 27, 2008; MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.; Pillbug

Apparently Poloz was surprised yesterday that even though he totes mcgrotes said that they aren't going to negative interest rates unless things get super bad for reals you guys nobody in the media believed him and instead had the audacity to write headlines based on the most interesting part of his speech.

As soon as he said the words "negative interest rates" and caused a media and market panic. But it's not his fault. It's the media. They're just so negative.

Maybe the bigger problem is that the international business and financial media instinctively goes short on the Canadian economy every time Poloz opens his mouth in public?

At least this time he didn't ask the assembled journalists for fiscal policy advice.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/business/poloz-negative-rates-1.3355878

Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 9, 2015

# ? Dec 9, 2015 15:11

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Apparently Poloz was surprised yesterday that even though he totes mcgrotes

# ? Dec 9, 2015 15:27

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

I don't think anyone in Alberta gave a poo poo about anyone other than themselves in the last oil boom.

So why should I?

And I should, how would this be quantified? Should I bail out every Albertan that gets their douche truck, mcmansion and atv repo'd?

And what do I get in return?

Oh I get it, it's different this time, have mercy

# ? Dec 9, 2015 15:48

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Baronjutter posted:

It's almost like the private sector's short term and myopic focus and inability to cooperate or see the big picture is a loving disaster for society. It's almost like taking the complex and deeply interwoven things that support a society, compartmentalizing them, then saying they have to individually make a profit or they don't have value is going to destroy the society those things were supporting.

That makes no sense? Hydro One and OPG were government run or 100% government owned crown corporations until a month ago. It isn't uncommon for utility companies, public or private, to be compartmentalized. This is the Ontario problem in one paragraph

quote:

Ontarians have paid $37-billion more than market price for electricity over eight years and will pay another $133-billion extra by 2032 as a result of haphazard planning and political meddling, a report from the Auditor-General says. The Liberal government has repeatedly overruled expert advice � and even tore up two long-term plans from the Ontario Power Authority for the electricity system � in favour of political decisions that drove up power costs for consumers

Our electricity system used to be designed by government employed experts, it's now designed by government employed politicians who've got to win a popularity contest every 4 or less years.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 16:42

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Cultural Imperial posted:

I don't think anyone in Alberta gave a poo poo about anyone other than themselves in the last oil boom.

So why should I?

And I should, how would this be quantified? Should I bail out every Albertan that gets their douche truck, mcmansion and atv repo'd?

And what do I get in return?

Oh I get it, it's different this time, have mercy

I can confirm this is the right opinion.

"Waahhh, I can't afford my $400,000 house and all my cool stuff because I'm now making only slightly above the median Canadian salary instead of double or triple."

# ? Dec 9, 2015 16:54

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

Soaring levels of mortgage debt have left one in 10 Canadian homeowners vulnerable to an economic shock. But with much of the risk concentrated among a small group of borrowers, policy makers are in a difficult spot of having to cool an increasingly niche segment of the housing market.

Canada’s household-debt-to-income ratio neared a record 165 per cent in the second quarter. Total household debt has increased since then, rising at an annualized 5 per cent in October, the fastest pace of growth in more than three years, Royal Bank of Canada reported.

But in a new study for the C.D. Howe Institute, economist Paul Jacobson and former Toronto-Dominion Bank chief economist Craig Alexander argue that most Canadians have handled their debts responsibly and that much of the risk from rising household debt comes from the core group of homeowners whose debts have soared in the wake of rising home prices and falling interest rates. “I don’t think the data naturally argue that the bulk of Canadians are in trouble,” Mr. Alexander said in an interview. “What it’s telling you is that there’s a segment that are taking significant risk.”

Debt rose across all ages and income levels between 1999 and 2012, the economists found, but has risen the most among those at the bottom of the income ladder, the youngest homeowners and those in the most expensive housing markets.

Since 1999, the share of Canadian homeowners who have mortgage debts worth 500 per cent of their after-tax income jumped from little more than 3 per cent to nearly 11 per cent. An equal proportion of homeowners report having fewer than $1,500 in liquid financial assets that could be used to pay bills in a crunch.

The largest jump in deeply indebted households was in British Columbia, where skyrocketing home prices helped push up the average mortgage debt to 375 per cent of after-tax income and the share of households with debts worth 500 per cent of their income has nearly doubled to 20 per cent. Ontario has seen a similar rise in debt, with the average debt-to-income ratio rising to 350 per cent in 2012.

The shift was driven by more low-income Canadians taking on large mortgages. The share of Canadians in the lowest income bracket who had mortgages of more than $300,000 jumped nearly 11 per cent since 1999, compared to an increase of about 7 per cent among middle-income earners. Much of that increase came from Canadians under the age of 35, which Mr. Alexander suspects is likely first-time buyers in expensive cities such as Toronto stretching their ability to pay to get into the market. “There are a lot of young people who feel that if they don’t get in now, they won’t be able to afford it down the road,” he said. “It’s contributing to the burden of debt we’re seeing in the economy and you worry about the amount of leverage they take on.”

Federal regulators have steadily tightened lending standards and mortgage insurance rules in the wake of the global financial crisis, leaving Ottawa with few options to curb the pockets of risk that still exist in the housing market.

Mr. Alexander argues that regulators should look at policies such as raising the minimum down payment for mortgage insurance over a certain price point that would target expensive markets such as Toronto and Vancouver, or consider requiring lenders to test borrowers’ incomes against interest rates two percentage points higher than the banks’ posted mortgage rates to prepare homeowners for rising interest rates in the future. Ottawa could also follow the lead of the Bank of England, which last year restricted the number of mortgages lenders could make for more than 450 per cent of a borrower’s income.

He likens the choices faced by Canada’s new Liberal federal government to a car driving on the highway and hitting a patch of ice. “If you slam on the brakes, you actually cause the thing you fear and you likely end up having an accident,” he says. “The first thing you do is you stop pushing on the gas pedal. The second thing you do is very gently tap the brakes. Gently leaning against the tendency to take on large amounts of debt is probably a healthy thing to do.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle27649443/

Just tap the brakes u guys

# ? Dec 9, 2015 17:02

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://business.financialpost.com/n...-omers-ventures

Oh no u guys tech juggernaut hootsuite delaying ipo.

“These companies are really high-quality companies and I think the window could open quickly again,” he said. “Where else are you going to invest right now?”

Oh ya so high quality

# ? Dec 9, 2015 17:24

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-property-assessments-increase-1.3357024

quote:

BC Assessment is sending out warning letters to about 37,000 property owners — mostly in Greater Vancouver — to brace themselves for a sharp rise in their property assessments in the new year.

"Increases of 15 to 25 per cent will be typical for single-family homes in Vancouver, the North Shore, Burnaby, Tri-Cities, New Westminster, Richmond and Surrey," says B.C. Assessor Jason Grant.

And some of the increases will be even more, according a list of examples released on Wednesday morning.

For example one house in East Vancouver built in 1983, which was assessed under $1 million last year, is now assessed at nearly $1.3 million, for a total increase of 28 per cent.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 18:26

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Wow now the government is punishing people for wise investments and equity building?

# ? Dec 9, 2015 18:27

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Baronjutter posted:

Wow now the government is punishing people for wise investments and equity building?

Literally what every baby boomer rear end in a top hat living in the Vancouver west side thinks

# ? Dec 9, 2015 18:34

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Ikantski posted:

That makes no sense? Hydro One and OPG were government run or 100% government owned crown corporations until a month ago. It isn't uncommon for utility companies, public or private, to be compartmentalized. This is the Ontario problem in one paragraph

Our electricity system used to be designed by government employed experts, it's now designed by government employed politicians who've got to win a popularity contest every 4 or less years.

I think he has a point. The "market knows best!" mantra that swept Canadian governments in the 1990s was part of what caused successive Ontario government administrations to stop treating artificially cheap energy for manufacturing as an industrial strategy.

Part of why the Liberals can get away with their manifestly corrupt and incompetent handling of the power Grid is because the entire issue is de-politicized by decades of market fundamentalism. The single worst cause of our problems is the Liberal party itself, but the fact that all three major political parties have mostly abandoned the common sense view that energy should be an expert run utility designed to give our manufacturers and edge is also part of the problem.

In an ideal world we'd be upgrading our public grid to be 100% nuclear and running it with arms-length experts, not selling it off for chump change. The Liberals aren't the only thing standing in the way of that: ideological opposition to government intervention in markets is part of what gives Liberals the screen they need to mismanage the grid without being held properly accountable.

Though, admittedly, it's bizarre that somehow neither the NDP nor the PCs have been able to turn this issue to their advantage.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 18:52

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

By the way, USD to cad is 1.36 today.

loving lol

How low can it go following the current oil price trajectory?

# ? Dec 9, 2015 18:56

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Helsing posted:

I think he has a point. The "market knows best!" mantra that swept Canadian governments in the 1990s was part of what caused successive Ontario government administrations to stop treating artificially cheap energy for manufacturing as an industrial strategy.

Part of why the Liberals can get away with their manifestly corrupt and incompetent handling of the power Grid is because the entire issue is de-politicized by decades of market fundamentalism. The single worst cause of our problems is the Liberal party itself, but the fact that all three major political parties have mostly abandoned the common sense view that energy should be an expert run utility designed to give our manufacturers and edge is also part of the problem.

In an ideal world we'd be upgrading our public grid to be 100% nuclear and running it with arms-length experts, not selling it off for chump change. The Liberals aren't the only thing standing in the way of that: ideological opposition to government intervention in markets is part of what gives Liberals the screen they need to mismanage the grid without being held properly accountable.

Though, admittedly, it's bizarre that somehow neither the NDP nor the PCs have been able to turn this issue to their advantage.

The public is so sold on this "market fundamentalism" angle that no other party can run with it. Privatized or not, services have to be run at some sort of a profit but that profit has to come without looking at any of the service's effects on society.

I mean look at poverty issues and homelessness. Study after study shows that just providing the housing and services needed is cheaper for society, it saves money on policing, prisons, and prevents a ton of property crime. But the police and courts don't (yet) need to show they're turning a profit to justify their existence while social housing does. A thing that costs money but doesn't on it's own make money is an evil wasteful thing that should not exist. The same with utilities. You could do the math and prove that the government running power at a slight loss (or at least just not a huge profit) actually ends up enriching society far more than it costs by giving electricity using activities an economic edge, but people will be against it because "drat wasteful subsidized power". It's the same with healthcare, education, infrastructure. People loving expect transit to make a profit from fares otherwise it shouldn't exist.

We're too stupid to look at the big picture, the whole system, when it comes to basic economic things that make us richer, let alone "social issues". The current economic ideology hasn't just poisoned our society, it's objectively trashing our economy. Which goes back to how the gently caress "economic conservatives" are at all taken seriously by serious people who are "worried about the economy" when their cargo cult school of economics time and time again hurts the very economy they claim to be the sole experts at running. They're a cult of markets who don't actually care about the results.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:24

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

etalian posted:

How low can it go following the current oil price trajectory?

Manufacturing will boom again! :v:

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:32

yippee cahier: Mar 28, 2005

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-property-assessments-increase-1.3357024

Saw this on the newsstand last night:

quote:

Homeowners living on Musqueam reserve land in one of Vancouver�s poshest neighbourhoods are again taking the band to court to fight an increase in lease payments, a hike this time of 700 per cent.

The band is ordering the owners of the 75 sprawling mid-century homes on spacious lots near the exclusive Shaughnessy Golf and Country Club in Vancouver to pay on average $80,000 a year, up from the $10,000 a year on average they pay now.

http://www.theprovince.com/news/musqueam+homeowners+again+take+band+court+over+lease/11572386/story.html

:qq:

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:39

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

etalian posted:

How low can it go following the current oil price trajectory?

I am not sure how much room oil has left to decline before they stop bothering to pump it, but the dollar still has plenty of room to fall.

The CDN$ was 62 cents as recently at 2002, which is much closer to where it has been for my life outside the last decade. (Moving all my money to USD investments a few years ago is looking better and better every day.)

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:43

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

sund posted:

Saw this on the newsstand last night:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/musqueam+homeowners+again+take+band+court+over+lease/11572386/story.html

Hahahah that owns. Read the comments, you can smell the fear :owned:

Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Dec 9, 2015

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:43

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

sund posted:

Saw this on the newsstand last night:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/musqueam+homeowners+again+take+band+court+over+lease/11572386/story.html

I'm surprised that anyone still lives there after the last time that happened in 1995.

I guess it really is different this time.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:46

Filthee Fingas: Jan 5, 2004; It's great being left handed..you can jerk off and still keep the mouse on the right side of the keyboard

As an ex-pat living in the UK and visiting home (Vancouver + Whistler) for Christmas, I finally get to be on the good end of the exchange rate: GBP/CAD close:2.06057

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:46

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Hmm you make a good point sir, perhaps the Indians are the real racists

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:51

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

El Scotch posted:

Manufacturing will boom again!

Entire economic sectors can stop and start on a dime, so we'll be just fine!!!

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:52

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

ocrumsprug posted:

I am not sure how much room oil has left to decline before they stop bothering to pump it, but the dollar still has plenty of room to fall.

The CDN$ was 62 cents as recently at 2002, which is much closer to where it has been for my life outside the last decade. (Moving all my money to USD investments a few years ago is looking better and better every day.)

My Canadian holdings took a beating, but I'm making large gains through foreign ~~equity~~ exchange rates thank god.

vyelkin posted:

Entire economic sectors can stop and start on a dime, so we'll be just fine!!!

Let Bombardier know this so they can actually build the streetcars for the TTC.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:55

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Helsing posted:

I think he has a point. The "market knows best!" mantra that swept Canadian governments in the 1990s was part of what caused successive Ontario government administrations to stop treating artificially cheap energy for manufacturing as an industrial strategy.

Part of why the Liberals can get away with their manifestly corrupt and incompetent handling of the power Grid is because the entire issue is de-politicized by decades of market fundamentalism. The single worst cause of our problems is the Liberal party itself, but the fact that all three major political parties have mostly abandoned the common sense view that energy should be an expert run utility designed to give our manufacturers and edge is also part of the problem.

In an ideal world we'd be upgrading our public grid to be 100% nuclear and running it with arms-length experts, not selling it off for chump change. The Liberals aren't the only thing standing in the way of that: ideological opposition to government intervention in markets is part of what gives Liberals the screen they need to mismanage the grid without being held properly accountable.

Though, admittedly, it's bizarre that somehow neither the NDP nor the PCs have been able to turn this issue to their advantage.

Blaming the nebulous private sector lets the OLP off the hook too much. Maybe things would be better under full communism but it's a red herring. Every other province and state was also operating alongside a private sector for the last 25 years. It's not that bizarre that ONDP and OPC haven't been able to capitalize, you still see a lot of people saying it can't be that bad, their power bills haven't gone up much or quickly reframe any criticism as global warming denial from rich rural nimbys slash mike harris.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:56

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Private land owners setting market rates on their own land to maximize their profits: socialism!!!

# ? Dec 9, 2015 19:58

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

lmao

# ? Dec 9, 2015 20:12

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

ocrumsprug posted:

Moving all my money to USD investments a few years ago is looking better and better every day.

Shorting Canada is making me very rich.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 20:20

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

Cultural Imperial posted:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle27649443/

Just tap the brakes u guys

quote:

Much of that increase came from Canadians under the age of 35, which Mr. Alexander suspects is likely first-time buyers in expensive cities such as Toronto stretching their ability to pay to get into the market. �There are a lot of young people who feel that if they don�t get in now, they won�t be able to afford it down the road,� he said. �It�s contributing to the burden of debt we�re seeing in the economy and you worry about the amount of leverage they take on.�

Good lord.

I know this is par for the course, but why the gently caress not just keep renting?

# ? Dec 9, 2015 20:38

Deep Dish Fuckfest: Sep 6, 2006; Advanced
Computer Touching; Toilet Rascal

Count Roland posted:

I know this is par for the course, but why the gently caress not just keep renting?

Sure. And next you'll suggest that I take public transit like some loving animal. Maybe I should eat garbage and drink my own piss too while I'm at it???

# ? Dec 9, 2015 20:43

Mederlock: Jun 23, 2012; You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it; Grimey Drawer

This has come up before, but seriously, people have this absurd notion in their head that renting is just throwing your money away, whereas getting a mortgage means your building equity.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 20:44

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Oh to have had money to put in USD when back at parity...

Such is life.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 21:15

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

Mederlock posted:

This has come up before, but seriously, people have this absurd notion in their head that renting is just throwing your money away, whereas getting a mortgage means your building equity.

I'm glad my dad spent the last decade ranting against this sort of thinking. This thread would like him. Well except that he's a gold bug.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 21:17

Crowbite: Apr 9, 2015

Today on Facebook

quote:

FRIENDS OF FACEBOOK! I NEED YOUR ADVICE! I have a big decision to make. I found a house that I want to put an offer on in *random Calgary community* but in order to make it work I need to charge 700 per room. This would include utilities. The link to the property is here: *4 bedroom house*

My question is, is there a market for rooms like this. Each had its own living room next to it and it's own bathroom. Or at 700 would people just jump to suites or apartments?

I don't want to make the wrong choice.

Umm what? Do you not read the news?

# ? Dec 9, 2015 21:19

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

jm20 posted:

My Canadian holdings took a beating, but I'm making large gains through foreign ~~equity~~ exchange rates thank god.

It's other reason why every smart disciplined investor should have some foreign stock ETF holdings.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 21:26

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

I exchanged a few hundred thousand of CAD into USD (basically my entire net worth at the time) in late 2013 at around 94c to the dollar. By far the best financial decision of my life.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 22:11

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I wanted to go 100% USD and drop canadian funds 2 years ago but our "finance guy" recommended against it saying having too many foreign investments was complicated and risky

I've been doing as much as I can on my own with my e-trade stuff but wife still isn't 100% convinced it's better than our manulife leech. Also because I can't prove how the e-series are doing because they don't give you reports that actually meaningfully tell you how your poo poo is doing.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 22:19

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

I only had enough money to start investing this year! gently caress me :v:

# ? Dec 9, 2015 22:24

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

You guys realize you've gained a big fat loving zero unless you convert your us dollars into cad right?

Cmon all y'all loving forex Gordon gekkos. Who's going to blink first?

# ? Dec 9, 2015 22:25

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# ? May 25, 2024 21:10

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

The only moral capital flight is my capital flight.

# ? Dec 9, 2015 22:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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