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Zoom is Dr. Cox. drat it, it was right in front of me all along.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:12
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Wonder what they'll do with Wally West, they usually shitcan characters they don't want to deal with like Flash dad and hopefully soon Earth-2 Flash so curious where they'll go with this. The family drama side doesn't seen like it'll have much oophm and having 4 speedsters on the roster would be pretty cluttered.
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Dec 10, 2015 07:54
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RIP in peace, Brendan Fraser on Scrubs 
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Dec 10, 2015 08:00
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Bad Moon posted:RIP in peace, Brendan Fraser on Scrubs The king of gay chicken.
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Dec 10, 2015 08:05
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Draw your conclusions. Er, spoilers I guess.
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Dec 10, 2015 08:26
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At least the promo for the next episode looks like it will solve the patty problem one way or another.
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Dec 10, 2015 09:05
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I find what they are doing with Zoom and Wells to be quite lacking inspiration. Obviously they are retreading the whole "make Flash faster" with the (dumb) twist of "so that I can steal as much as I can". But also, wasn't that already the plan? Before Zoom came to talk to Wells, wasn't that Wells' outspoken intention? Also, Wells' daughter is kidnapped for quite some time now and everyone in the group knows that, in addition to Zoom's end goal to steal the Flash's speed (and kill him). And, even if they are not constantly suspecting that Wells's is being blackmailed (which they should totally be doing, and honestly it took Zoom way too long) for something that would hurt Barry (or all of them), there should be at least less stupid "is everything okay?" interactions with him. I mean they ask him this twice in the episode, and he responds "why wouldn't it be?" both times. First time (by Cisco) he is promptly ignored and second time the first reaction is... "Holyday blues?" (by Caitlyn) before remembering that, oh that's right, his daughter is chained in some hellish dungeon in another world so that can't be easy for him.
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Dec 10, 2015 09:47
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Aquasnake posted:At least the promo for the next episode looks like it will solve the patty problem one way or another. I wouldn't believe it until she's in the STAR labs gang and helping talk Barry through a fight because the show constantly set Iris up to learn the secret all through last season and then held off on it until the finale and I'm fully expecting the same thing to happen here. I wouldn't even be surprised if Patty died in some manner to kill Zoom. AbstractNapper posted:I find what they are doing with Zoom and Wells to be quite lacking inspiration. What really bugs me about Zoom after thinking about him and how much more charismatic the Rogues were as villains last night is that Zoom's a complete non-entity villain for the moment. We don't really know anything about him or see him on any level, even by the mid-season finale. Last year we all suspected Wells was Reverse Flash pretty early on and we were able to get some glimpses in to his mind and reasons and stuff through Well's character. This season we have nothing. It's presumably supposed to set him up as this really scary guy, but the fact we know he's just sitting back and throwing villains at Barry and has no interest in really doing anything makes the fact he's so much faster rather toothless when put in conjunction with the fact we never see the character.
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Dec 10, 2015 11:41
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Why does patty say 'of course' instead of 'you're welcome' ? It bugged me. Is it an American thing?
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Dec 10, 2015 12:59
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Woden posted:Wonder what they'll do with Wally West, they usually shitcan characters they don't want to deal with like Flash dad and hopefully soon Earth-2 Flash so curious where they'll go with this. Just because his name is Wally. Wally West doesn't mean he's going to get any powers. He didn't in the comics.
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Dec 10, 2015 14:32
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Aphrodite posted:It's not hard, this season is not good. That's probably partly responsible for the ratings drop. What ratings drop?
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Dec 10, 2015 15:01
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There was a ratings spike the previous week (for some weird reason) then they dropped this week (back to about the season average, and still above the episode from 2 weeks ago). No idea what could have caused it, it must be because the show is terrible now!
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Dec 10, 2015 15:18
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zoux posted:What ratings drop? I don't know, some guy said it was a series low and everyone was speculating why. Read the thread zoux, it helps with context.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:27
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:Fringe. You should watch Fringe. I'm doing a rewatch now for the first time and it's so much better than I remembered. It's been long enough that I not only forgot MotW storylines, but also big plot twists in the season long arcs. Also, I kind of forgot how big of an emotional punch the show packed. Walter has me misty-eyed like every other episode.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:27
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Aphrodite posted:I don't know, some guy said it was a series low and everyone was speculating why. Oh, well I can assure you they have nothing to do with each other, unless everyone hated the season-high of the crossover from last week.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:31
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BrianWilly posted:Draw your conclusions. That's E2 Barry right? Hmmm. Flashback? Could be huge.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:31
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Aphrodite posted:I don't know, some guy said it was a series low and everyone was speculating why. BrianWilly said there was a season low to prove whatever dumb point he was trying to make. He was wrong/lying. Read actual facts Aphrodite, they help you not look foolish and condescending.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:38
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Probably the ratings dip is due to holiday stuff and people thinking the crossover was the midseason finale.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:40
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In case I wasn't clear, the ratings "dip" is due to it being the week after a highly promoted crossover with another popular show. It still had higher ratings than the previous week (Gorilla Warfare) and is right in the middle of the ratings for the whole season.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:51
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Are people moving away from the "theory" that Zoom is Barry's dad from Earth-2? I mean its so obvious I'm not sure how we can still call it a theory. You can see very clearly that Zoom's eyes are the same as Barry's dad's. They probably shouldn't have thrown in those little mentions of superhero dads on Earth-2, that was the real tip-off.
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Dec 10, 2015 15:57
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PaganGoatPants posted:That's E2 Barry right? Hmmm. Flashback? Could be huge. Spoiler for speculation E2 Barry is a reporter/writer and E2 Iris is a forensic scientist (who got into the work because of her cop dad). Basebf555 posted:Are people moving away from the "theory" that Zoom is Barry's dad from Earth-2? I mean its so obvious I'm not sure how we can still call it a theory. You can see very clearly that Zoom's eyes are the same as Barry's dad's. They probably shouldn't have thrown in those little mentions of superhero dads on Earth-2, that was the real tip-off. Fairly certain that Zoom is Eobard Thawne from E2's future. Though I do hope that your theory is right because it would be way better. My only reasoning for this is because canonically Zoom is Thawne. I mean poo poo it's the first sentence on any Zoom Wikipedia/Comic Vine type page. Windows 98 fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 15:59
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Basebf555 posted:Are people moving away from the "theory" that Zoom is Barry's dad from Earth-2? I mean its so obvious I'm not sure how we can still call it a theory. You can see very clearly that Zoom's eyes are the same as Barry's dad's. They probably shouldn't have thrown in those little mentions of superhero dads on Earth-2, that was the real tip-off. Red herring, it's Barry's other dad, Joe. That watch will be the key to defeating Zoom - it never kept good time because it's actually a magical anti-speedster artifact.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:02
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I think the problem with this show (and, to a lesser extent, Arrow) is that the characters serve the plot too much. It's always been this way in the Flarrowverse; people doing things that are really stupid or out of character simply to move the plot where the writers want it to go. The dialogue and character relationships are usually great, but as soon as the plot demands it, everything takes a trip to Moronville. Rather than try to fix this, it looks like it's getting worse in Flash.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:02
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Basebf555 posted:Are people moving away from the "theory" that Zoom is Barry's dad from Earth-2? I mean its so obvious I'm not sure how we can still call it a theory. You can see very clearly that Zoom's eyes are the same as Barry's dad's. They probably shouldn't have thrown in those little mentions of superhero dads on Earth-2, that was the real tip-off. It s absolutely not 60 year old John Wesley Shipp in that costume.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:04
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Aphrodite posted:It s absolutely not 60 year old John Wesley Shipp in that costume. Not when its a wider shot, but the close-ups of Zoom's face definitely are.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:06
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The problems with this season have been, imo, the lack of Tom Cavanaugh, which has been remedied, and all the setting up they've had to do for LoT, which should be over now.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:11
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lotus circle posted:Well they acknowledged in episode 5 that Thawne wasn't actually Wells, but I imagine it's easier for them to keep calling him Wells because that's how they all knew him as. Also if they start calling him Thawne, then there's also Eddie to consider. Referring to him as Thawne every time is bringing up the fact that Eddie died every time they have a conversation. Drifter posted:Just accept Wally's black and Eobard was known to everybody for YEARS before as Wells so that's what they refer to him as, you big comic nerds. Holy crap. This. Thawne had been Wells for 15 years. All of his achievements and advances that they knew him for were Thawne acting on Wells' knowledge. Even his autobiography was written by Thawne-as-Wells. Also, what's the over-under on Wally finding out before Patty does?
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Dec 10, 2015 16:16
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Guy A. Person posted:BrianWilly said there was a season low to prove whatever dumb point he was trying to make. He was wrong/lying. Deadline posted:Winning was not on the track for the winter finale of The Flash (1.2/4) last night. Coming off the success of last year’s second annual crossover with Arrow, the Scarlet Speedster series stumbled 14% in the demo to a season low in fast nationals. cinemablend posted:The midseason finale of The CW’s The Flash saw some huge twists and turns, but the number of viewers who tuned in was much lower than usual. In fact, The Flash hit a Season 2 low in the ratings with “Running To Stand Still.” Read actual facts Guy A. Person, they help you not look foolish and condescending.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:16
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Basebf555 posted:Not when its a wider shot, but the close-ups of Zoom's face definitely are. I don't really understand how you can say they "definitely" are, or why you think they would ever put John Wesley Shipp in the costume before the reveal even if he was Zoom. Regardless, it's really not obvious.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:17
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mikeraskol posted:I don't really understand how you can say they "definitely" are, or why you think they would ever put John Wesley Shipp in the costume before the reveal even if he was Zoom. I'm very confident they are, but yes I was using hyperbole when I used the word definitely. If I'm wrong then they set up a really effective red herring, so kudos to them.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:20
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BrianWilly posted:http://deadline.com/2015/12/victoria-secret-fashion-show-ratings-hit-low-scream-queens-the-flash-chicago-med-nbc-1201662423/ This has nothing to do with not calling Wells Thawne. Also Flash was adjusted up a tenth so it's more like a couple of tenths. Not exactly a viewer exodus.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:22
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Basebf555 posted:Not when its a wider shot, but the close-ups of Zoom's face definitely are. I really doubt they would do it that way. If Zoom turns out to be Barry's dad, what do they gain from having Shipp be in the mask for close-ups? Nothing really. Why risk blowing your surprise for no gain? it's probably just coincidence with whoever the stuntman is. zoux posted:The problems with this season have been, imo, the lack of Tom Cavanaugh, which has been remedied, and all the setting up they've had to do for LoT, which should be over now. That was only one episode though. Arrow did just fine setting up LoT on its side, though granted Sara and Ray were much more prominent in the series than Firestorm was on Flash, so bringing them back felt like something that would have happened anyway.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:23
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Aphrodite posted:I really doubt they would do it that way. If Zoom turns out to be Barry's dad, what do they gain from having Shipp be in the mask for close-ups? Nothing really. Why risk blowing your surprise for no gain? Its because they think its clever, in this case a little too clever for their own good. So the audience can go back and see that it was his dad's face the whole time behind that mask.
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Dec 10, 2015 16:25
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My Q-Face posted:Also, what's the over-under on Wally finding out before Patty does? 6.5
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Dec 10, 2015 16:28
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BrianWilly posted:Read actual facts Guy A. Person, they help you not look foolish and condescending. Welp, I was looking at millions of viewers, not audience share. You're right I'm the dummy here. Sorry about that! (Flash did adjust up from 1.2/4 to 1.3/4 in final ratings, which was also what I was looking at, but you're correct that it is still a season low)
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Dec 10, 2015 16:29
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Some of the criticism of this season and last episode in particular sounds like it's coming from the mouths of impatient toddlers. "This is boring people are talking why isn't the Flash just fighting people the whole time "
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Dec 10, 2015 16:52
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Basebf555 posted:Its because they think its clever, in this case a little too clever for their own good. So the audience can go back and see that it was his dad's face the whole time behind that mask. 
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Dec 10, 2015 16:56
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Did you see True Detective? Why have a scene where Cole interacts with a weird, offputting dude that you find out later is actually the killer?. Writers like to set up these kind of puzzles where the solution can be seen after the fact if you go back and watch the episodes again, in this case its just so obvious that it ruins the surprise.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:14
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Basebf555 posted:Did you see True Detective? Why have a scene where Cole interacts with a weird, offputting dude that you find out later is actually the killer?. Obvious to you maybe. I've looked at the closeups of Zoom's face and it could be anyone behind the mask. The makeup and mask prosthetics cover up 99% of his face, what is left of the eyes could match any number of random people. Yes there are some similarities with the actor who plays Barry's dad, but they also have similarities to other random people too. I'm not saying that Zoom isn't Earth 2 Barry's dad, I'm just not convinced that theory is any more valid than any of the other half dozen theories floating about.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:19
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zoux posted:This has nothing to do with not calling Wells Thawne. Also Flash was adjusted up a tenth so it's more like a couple of tenths. Not exactly a viewer exodus. The characters not bothering to make distinctions between Thawne and Wells is a silly little nitpick that's emblematic of larger writer laziness that's always been a problem but just seems to keep building on itself this year. I mean, the Thawne thing's probably not as bad as, say, Henry Allen getting on a bus and leaving town in a decision so strange that half the the thread still thinks it's because he's the big evil. A step above that, you have Patty completely disregarding the fact that she shot a murder suspect last week and that her partner's been covering it up...like, literally makes it a non-issue because the writers didn't wanna deal with it til later. Go another step, and Evil Firestorm's locked up in their Pipeline until he somehow forgets that they locked him up in their Pipeline. Just a bit further, and Barry flat-out kills two people -- well, three if we count Savage -- with absolutely no repercussions whatsoever. People notice this stuff. We can say "It's a comic book show, don't think about it too much" 'til the cows come home, but at the end of the day, it's just more fun to watch shows that have stronger writing than shows where you're basically forced to make peace with lazy writing week after week after week. And that's before we get to more abstract problems, like Zoom feeling like a copy of last year's villain, but not coming across as strongly. The battered decrepit corpse of "Don't tell Iris" rising from its own ashes as "Don't tell Patty." Them taking half a season to set up Wally West, and then having us wait another month before he actually does anything. Jay's...everything. It's not any one specific problem, it's all this stuff as a whole. Of course Flash is still doing fine, but I don't think anyone can deny that it's far from the red-hot crowd-pleasing It Boy comic book show it was last year. ...Ugh, man, I even annoyed myself with this post, and that's gotta be saying something.
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Dec 10, 2015 17:20
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