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Mel Mudkiper posted:I once was roommates for a year with three philosophy majors. I have a theory all degrees produce arseholery of different kinds particular to the character of that degree, but the kind of arseholery I can't stomach is the philosopher. Doesn't matter whether you're analytic or continental. Every one of them could do with 'Praise of Folly' shoved down their throats. e: Not a nice note to start the new page - I've been reading Herta Müller's 'The Appointment'. She won the 2009 Nobel Prize. Even in translation I'm finding her prose really elegant. It's about the dictatorship of Ceaucescu but it's also an exploration of this woman's inner life. Poetic in parts but never obtuse. Jrbg fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 20:10
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Was that ending loving obnoxious or what Yeah, that entire last chapter was so aggressively bad that it kinda ruined all the good will the book had built up until then. I think the book runs out of steam in the back half and I was pretty surprised when it picked up the Pulitzer that year. Then again I don't remember what else came out in 2011 so maybe it was just a fallow year for fiction.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:41
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Yeah, that entire last chapter was so aggressively bad that it kinda ruined all the good will the book had built up until then. I think the book runs out of steam in the back half and I was pretty surprised when it picked up the Pulitzer that year. Then again I don't remember what else came out in 2011 so maybe it was just a fallow year for fiction. Freedom by Franzen had come out and I feel like giving it to Egan was an aggressive message to Franzen to go gently caress himself. The fact they refused to give an award to anyone the next year was also weird. All three of those books were deserving, probably Swamplandia the most.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:44
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Looking back 2011 really was a weak year. The only notable books were Room, Freedom, and A Visit from the Goon Squad.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:51
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Freedom by Franzen had come out and I feel like giving it to Egan was an aggressive message to Franzen to go gently caress himself. The 2012 pulitzergate was so loving bizarre. Like to just give to Karen Russell, who gives a poo poo if it's her first book. Also I'm v. glad that other people think that the last chapter of Goon Squad was an egregious pile of poo poo.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:10
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Re: Goon Squad, the 100 pages or whatever of powerpoints was stupid, but what came after even worse. What kind of book closes out by introducing some new POV character that the reader doesn't give a poo poo about and leaves everything else hanging? God drat. Also, I'm really annoyed that the Suicide Tour just never got brought up again. What the gently caress? As soon as I read that, I was excited to keep going through the book, because I think that's such an interesting idea that. But it's never even mentioned again. Next up is one of: Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk Book 2 of My Struggle Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius Orphan Master's Son Autograph Man by Zadie Smith (I loved White Teeth).
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Dec 10, 2015 21:37
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I just love the assertion a bunch of parents taking their kids to a children's concert would be cool with the musician just expressing his soul on stage for two hours and that it would be a major cultural milestone and not a bunch of people demanding their money back
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Dec 10, 2015 21:43
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blue squares posted:Next up is one of: Billy Lynn is really good but I think it suffers from its central conceit of taking course over four hours. He has these relationships and character developments over a very unrealistic period of time. It would have been better to give Billy and the other characters more time to develop. I do appreciate any novel that consciously makes Jerry Jones the antagonist however. Orphan Master's Son was hurt I think by winning the Pulitzer. Its good, but I don't think it was the best novel of the year by far. It really captured the existential horror of North Korea very well, but I think making Kim Jong Il an actual character made it a little too cartoonish.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:09
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blue squares posted:Re: Goon Squad, the 100 pages or whatever of powerpoints was stupid, but what came after even worse. What kind of book closes out by introducing some new POV character that the reader doesn't give a poo poo about and leaves everything else hanging? God drat. Yah, she does the same in Look At Me. She even creates a character whose job it is to basically come in and say some interesting poo poo while the plot goes on about some like 'ooh but what if social media is, like, not the real you?' And the interesting poo poo is dropped.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I just love the assertion a bunch of parents taking their kids to a children's concert would be cool with the musician just expressing his soul on stage for two hours and that it would be a major cultural milestone and not a bunch of people demanding their money back It was so weird and out of touch. Yeah alright, the washed-up baby boomer musician is just gonna show everyone he's still got it and save the collective souls of the next generation while he's at it.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:22
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:It was so weird and out of touch. Yeah alright, the washed-up baby boomer musician is just gonna show everyone he's still got it and save the collective souls of the next generation while he's at it. It's the literary equivalent of "listen to this shins song, it will save your life"
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Dec 10, 2015 22:30
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am seriously considering dedicating next year to giant loving books I have never read. This is funny because I was going to do the same lol
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Dec 10, 2015 23:56
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Pierson posted:Italian futurists were the best because they thought war was the height of technology and art and they loved war, then war happened and they all joined up and went to war, and now there are no more Italian futurists. lol remember the novecento
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Dec 10, 2015 23:59
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If I should read a vollmann book or two which ones should I? The rifles, the ice shirt, and Imperial all seem interesting. Or should I read his travel writing/ stuff like the atlas?
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Dec 11, 2015 03:07
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whatevz fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Apr 25, 2022 |
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Dec 11, 2015 05:25
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Read Rising Up and Rising Down, IMO
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Dec 11, 2015 05:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am seriously considering dedicating next year to giant loving books I have never read. have ytou read Life a user's manual? because if not you should read Life a user's manual
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Dec 11, 2015 09:46
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my plan is to read War and Peace next year
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Dec 11, 2015 09:47
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also My struggle (not the hitler one)
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Dec 11, 2015 09:48
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Add a Suitable Boy. And Gargantua and Pantagruel. I liked Visit from the Goon Squad but also liked the idea that the Shins could save your life so maybe I'm a loser.
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Dec 11, 2015 14:10
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Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:Add a Suitable Boy. And Gargantua and Pantagruel. I think I also have a lingering structuralist problem with fiction talking about music. I feel like there needs to be a synthesis of form between topic and medium, and I do not frankly feel that prose is capable of conveying music in any meaningful way. So, instead of being able to use prose to adequately create the sensation of music, the best a writer can usually do is go "the music is really good and everyone likes it."
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Dec 11, 2015 14:56
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think I also have a lingering structuralist problem with fiction talking about music. I feel like there needs to be a synthesis of form between topic and medium, and I do not frankly feel that prose is capable of conveying music in any meaningful way. So, instead of being able to use prose to adequately create the sensation of music, the best a writer can usually do is go "the music is really good and everyone likes it." Granted, most of that book had me hearing some sort of music, so maybe it is completely dependent on the writer.
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Dec 11, 2015 15:25
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Why don't more books come with soundtracks
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Dec 11, 2015 15:51
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I think it works better if you fit your own music to a book. Like for me all of Moby-Dick is thoroughly connected to Physical Graffiti, Dio, and Art Blakey. It would be cool if authors put a list of music they listened to (if any) while writing the book.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:23
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blue squares posted:Why don't more books come with soundtracks i've written a whole bunch of soundtracks for scenes in books it's a lot of fun. Mel Mudkiper posted:I think I also have a lingering structuralist problem with fiction talking about music. I feel like there needs to be a synthesis of form between topic and medium, and I do not frankly feel that prose is capable of conveying music in any meaningful way. So, instead of being able to use prose to adequately create the sensation of music, the best a writer can usually do is go "the music is really good and everyone likes it." I think Vollman did a really good job of describing some of the themes in Shostakovich's music and how they related to events and political ideas at that time. Also I really like the way JP Manchette includes music in his crime novels.
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Dec 11, 2015 16:28
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City on Fire made Michiko Kakutani's top 10 list. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/11/books/the-top-books-of-2015.html?_r=0
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Dec 11, 2015 16:59
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The more Cosmicomics I readm the more I think part of the reason Invisible Cities is written as it is is because it is an attempt to portray Venice in the negative, ie. only by describing everything that Venice is not can you ever get to what Venice is. It's an idea Calvino seems to play with a fair amount, and I think Invisible Cities is a culmination of a lot of the thinking that went into the later Cosmicomics. Calvino's the best.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:50
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I read Doctor Faustus. The copy I had included the English Faust book as well. I didn't dislike it, but I didn't particularly like it. I think the problem is I'm not a very visual person so reading plays doesn't do much for me. I still plan to read Goethe's Faust at a later date though. Maybe I should read some more contemporary stuff, but I think I'm on a classic kick right now.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:25
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pleasecallmechrist posted:If reading the Bible in English and you're not reading the good ol KJV I don't know what you're doing with your life. Supposed to be a bad translation but it is absolutely the most poetic. it's a crap translation for idiots
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Dec 11, 2015 22:27
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CestMoi posted:The more Cosmicomics I readm the more I think part of the reason Invisible Cities is written as it is is because it is an attempt to portray Venice in the negative, ie. only by describing everything that Venice is not can you ever get to what Venice is. It's an idea Calvino seems to play with a fair amount, and I think Invisible Cities is a culmination of a lot of the thinking that went into the later Cosmicomics. Calvino's the best. hey CestMoi do you read anything other than Calvino, ever? Also I know this isn't the recommend me thread but this thread knows whats up. I'll finish Billy Lynn in a couple days and I want to start in on my next Big Book. I own Gass's The Tunnel, which is quite a slog judging by the 40 or so pages I have read so far. I also have Against the Day by Pynchon, whom I love. Are there any contemporary Big Books that are must-reads? By big book I mean long, obviously, but with a big cast, big plot, big ideas. Like Gravity's Rainbow, Infinite Jest, etc. Don't care if it's "Pomo" or not. edit: I guess I'll read Europe Central. blue squares fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 23:14
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blue squares posted:hey CestMoi do you read anything other than Calvino, ever? Not if I can help it.
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Dec 11, 2015 23:17
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Basically my fav writer ever is Borges by some distance and Calvino when he;s on point strikes exactly the tone of Borges that I love so much, trhe dude with a sloth avatar nailed exactly what this is in the big "Calvino is really good" "no he isn't" argument that was cool and fun for everyone involved. Edit: zesty mordant Edit 2 he said this Invisible cities hits me right in the same spot that derives pleasure from maps, maps of fictional worlds, and making up fantastic maps and landscapes, only more surreal and obviously less visual. Words on a page elicit this feeling from me and that's why it's literature. CestMoi fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 23:21
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CestMoi posted:Basically my fav writer ever is Borges by some distance and Calvino when he;s on point strikes exactly the tone of Borges that I love so much, trhe dude with a sloth avatar nailed exactly what this is in the big "Calvino is really good" "no he isn't" argument that was cool and fun for everyone involved. I really enjoyed that argument because I unquestionably won it
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Dec 12, 2015 00:09
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think I also have a lingering structuralist problem with fiction talking about music. I feel like there needs to be a synthesis of form between topic and medium, and I do not frankly feel that prose is capable of conveying music in any meaningful way. So, instead of being able to use prose to adequately create the sensation of music, the best a writer can usually do is go "the music is really good and everyone likes it." The Sirens episode of Ulysses tho
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Dec 12, 2015 00:31
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CestMoi posted:Basically my fav writer ever is Borges by some distance and Calvino when he;s on point strikes exactly the tone of Borges that I love so much, trhe dude with a sloth avatar nailed exactly what this is in the big "Calvino is really good" "no he isn't" argument that was cool and fun for everyone involved. I picked up vollmann's The Atlas today, the note on the inside mentions: quote:This book was inspired by Yasunari Kawabata's "palm-of-the-hand-stories," which I enjoy rereading at bedtime, in the five minutes between lying down and turning off the light. It is equally pleasurable for me to page through a certain great atlas that I have, idling over unknown countries..." and that reminded me of this conversation. It also reminded me to pick up Kawabata's stories at some point, has anyone read them? or Snow Country? Micofiction appeals to my incredibly stunted, toddler-like inability to maintain focus on any one thing.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:17
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think I also have a lingering structuralist problem with fiction talking about music. I feel like there needs to be a synthesis of form between topic and medium, and I do not frankly feel that prose is capable of conveying music in any meaningful way. So, instead of being able to use prose to adequately create the sensation of music, the best a writer can usually do is go "the music is really good and everyone likes it." Gee buddy, I dunno, Swann's Way seemed to capture the emotions of listening to a concert pretty well.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:09
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Zesty Mordant posted:I picked up vollmann's The Atlas today, the note on the inside mentions: Snow Country is a short novel, but it demands undivided attention to the smallest details throughout the book. I haven't read his microfiction, though. If you're interested in the genre,I can recommend Peter Handke, Lydia Davies or Eduardo Galeano. I'm sure some of their microfiction work had appeared online, so you can see if it appeals to you.
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Dec 12, 2015 07:25
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Zesty Mordant posted:I picked up vollmann's The Atlas today, the note on the inside mentions: I read Palm-of-the-Hand Stories like 3 years ago and they're great. Really nice short stories that don't bullshit around and pack a nice punch; I recommend them to everyone There's a great movie adaptation of a bunch of the stories called Arigatou-San, it's on hulu atm
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Dec 12, 2015 09:42
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I tried Invisible Cities but couldn't get into it. I totally see the appeal, just not in that amount.
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Dec 12, 2015 13:38
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pleasecallmechrist posted:If reading the Bible in English and you're not reading the good ol KJV I don't know what you're doing with your life. Supposed to be a bad translation but it is absolutely the most poetic. Which makes me wonder will there be religion based on Coelhos Alchemist one day? Is there already? mallamp fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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