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thetruegentleman posted:This is kind of ambiguous; I thought that meant some of the clan scientists are at the battlefield itself to get test results, which would mean they're at risk. Better yet, have the Clansairs and Carlos take them prisoner, because holy poo poo the clans are going to be pissed once they find out the truth behind Project Phoenix. And hey, Task Force Serpent is buddying up to Skye, right next to the Capellans, too, and they're in the middle of saving the FWL's heir.. This can't help but end in amazingness. e: I do sorta think the quotes around "Liu Bei's" name implies that it's a pseudonym like Mackenzie Bethe's "Xuan Wu." Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 20:57
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Scintilla posted:Or I could stay and help kill stuff. I dunno, what do my fellow players think? I think we kinda need to know what the crusaders are doing. (It does look like 0923 cuts loss to the blue hawk though, since it clips 1024, and its where I would have gone.) I think the gallowglas needs to jump behind the goldhammer and light it up. Do what the hawks are doing and threaten backshots. At this point its not a battle of getting away(enemy forces are faster, this was a given), its an in your face brawl to drop more than the other guy can. The more hubs drop, the less aces there are. The blue hawk transitioning to a hub while we ignore it is probably the worst thing that could happen if we just rush north. Aside from just straight losing two people to backshots and crippling engine hits. I think the grand titan may have to eject in a few turns if it gets rocked too hard - vs going down and dying. The effects of the baithammer are being seen. I'm not sure how feasable it is, the rampage and the grand titan may want to just back away, retreating and firing everything. Or just put walls to your back and stand and deliver. Its a question of move mods vs knocking damage sources out. The last thing you want is two gauss slugs and a snubbie to the back, though. My tentative orders are either to hobble-run up to 0923 and unload lrms at the green hammer(I'll get 11s), or reverse to 0628 and unload on the white hawk. We need to deal with them sometime, and I don't especially want to leave redbeard outnumbered alone vs em while we run north. Edit: who's finishing the marauder this turn? TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 20:58
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PTN mentioned that the two heavies are so crippled that they're not going to keep fighting if no one shoots them anymore- Probably best to leave them for sweet salvage if you guys manage to win the whole field. e: Unless he changed his orders, I think Voltic Surge was throwing an aimed shot at the Marauder and kicking the crippled Warhammer though. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 21:09
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On the other hand, they're Cappellans and they're driving fancy, hard to replace machines. Their mood might change if they think they can get a free shot at you after you disregarded them, and even if they escape, you're handing the Cappellans back a shitload of their fancy toys they'd be scared of losing. Even as the resident Cappellan supporter and head of the War Crimes Day Parade committee, I'd put them down given the chance.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:16
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Zaodai posted:On the other hand, they're Cappellans and they're driving fancy, hard to replace machines. Their mood might change if they think they can get a free shot at you after you disregarded them, and even if they escape, you're handing the Cappellans back a shitload of their fancy toys they'd be scared of losing. A Capellan supporter advocating for killing helpless, wounded Capellans? How out of character and unexpected for that faction.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:18
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Night10194 posted:A Capellan supporter advocating for killing helpless, wounded Capellans? If you don't want to die wounded and helpless, then fight better. If you're in a position where your strategy relies on your enemy being merciful, you've got a lovely plan. Nobody would understand that better than a bunch of Cappellan quasi-elite mechwarriors. [EDIT] Also, "helpless" might not be wholly accurate, which is my point.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:23
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PoptartsNinja posted:And it only gets one attempt per turn. This is why I'd say "leave Jiangshi and Lu Bu alone and focus on getting to the Crusaders." Focus on the mission. If they turn hostile again, they're both hosed up enough that it won't be hard to put them away. Cross that bridge when you reach it. Stick to the mission.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:26
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Or they might just light up the dropship
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Dec 10, 2015 21:29
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At the very least, I hope they suicide bomb your salvage techs if anyone honestly expects that the Cappellans would allow their super prototype bullshit to fall into anyone else's hands. "Passive" mindset or not, they're not just going to say "Oh, ok guys. You got us. Good fight, chaps!"
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Dec 10, 2015 21:31
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Ok we are killing them then?  Someone help Carlos!
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Dec 10, 2015 21:36
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Zaodai posted:At the very least, I hope they suicide bomb your salvage techs if anyone honestly expects that the Cappellans would allow their super prototype bullshit to fall into anyone else's hands. I sorta agree that this would be in character, heh. I'd probably take the aimed shot and blow that Marauder's RT out, still, but the Warhammer is so boned that it can't even escape the field without almost certainly dying.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:38
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Alright, I'm leaning towards going to 0924. I can torso twist and put my arm behind me to shoot Bai Hu with my ER Medium, right? Hit chance will be awful, but eh.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:57
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Okay, I'm looking at two separate move possibilities. 1. Run to 1712, face 1612, and help the Guillotine by blasting the Green Warhammer. I'll draw fire away from him in the process, and the Warhammer's already got 4 places where my Gauss Rifle (on a 6) could crack the shell so my LBX can get to the delicious crits inside. If I knock it out, that's one less possible Ace/Hub. The low move mod is a bit of a shame, but 1611 leaves me open to backshots and hurts my Gauss odds. This plan could get me shot to pieces since it makes me a slow target for up to 4 mechs, and the Pillager in particular could jump in and kick my already damaged left leg. But think of the glory!  2. Run to 2315 and turn to face 2215. From there I can kick and shoot the Pillager if it decides to run after us or jumps next to me, and I have 50/50 or no LOS from all the places it can reach behind me (it can't make it onto 2513 because of the height, correct?). If the Pillager isn't in view I can still threaten the Grey or Green Marauders depending on their moves. I'm thinking that Plan 2 is a much better idea from a tactical standpoint but it's really tempting to go for blood with #1.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:16
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For those thinking on shooting the Passive/Passive folks: From an entirely meta standpoint I'm pretty sure PTN won't have them shoot you in the back without provocation, and as far as I can tell, PTN has never reneged on an assurance given. The Capellan pilots (if there are any?  ) are playing with some pricey-rear end poo poo and they probably have orders not to damage their expensive prototype hardware more than they should. They're probably counting on If you do shoot the Passive ones, however, that might cause them to alter their orders to fight you until they literally can't anymore. That is probably bad for you, especially when the objective is "Break Through", not "Kill Them All". It's up to you on if you really want to kick the ones that are down, and it may be in-character for the lot we're playing so you can do that if you want to. But it's something to keep in mind from a meta standpoint.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:24
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Pooncha posted:For those thinking on shooting the Passive/Passive folks: From an equally meta standpoint, all PTN said is that a passive mindset won't shoot you first. He never said the mindset won't ever change. Additionally, they already got their rides shot out from under them. They already know the rest of their force has left the planet, and so there may not be a rescue or recovery team coming. You know what would be worse than damaging their ride? Giving it in-tact to a hated enemy! It would be the most Cappellan thing in the world for them to be "passive" for awhile to lull you into a false sense of security and then shoot you in the back if they think they can get away with it. And they DEFINITELY have some kind of plan to keep as much of their hardware as possible from falling in to enemy hands even if their machines are combat disabled. Their whole deal is being spiteful dicks. They don't play by normal expectations.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:32
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Maybe they have good reason to not be concerned
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Dec 10, 2015 22:39
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PTN is trying to help the players, by letting them know that they don't have to waste time finishing off mechs that are totally crippled and no longer combat effective. Storywise, if the players succeed completely, that's bad for the Capellans. Zaodai is undermining the players by encouraging them to linger and waste shots on combat-ineffective enemy units. Perhaps not intentionally, but if he succeeds, he's lowering their overall chances of winning the mission. To the extent that the players lose, Zaodai's favored faction wins. My advice? Do what you think will be coolest and the most fun. I think winning the scenario is cooler and more fun for the players than shooting basically helpless downed mechs, but that's just me.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:51
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Gwaihir posted:
I was. Is it too late to send different orders?
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Dec 10, 2015 22:53
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In the interests of complete transparency: I'm not backing the Capellans in this three mission mini-campaign. It's evident in my posting. I genuinely believe you're better off having dead Cappellans at your back rather than "passive"/"wounded" Cappellans at your back. If PTN changes it so they are mission killed and absolutely 100% no longer able to do anything, then I would rescind my recommendation to finish them off outside of fluff reasons. But right now, all we've got is a statement that if you don't shoot at them, they won't shoot at you. For this turn.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:55
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VolticSurge posted:I was. Is it too late to send different orders? No, you can revise them. But PTN did say to take a little more time to think and discuss since the deadline is a bit away to cut down on flooding the inbox. Taking the marauder down is probably still good if you can land that aimed shot. Any chance you can throw some pulses at that shadowhawk? Zaodai posted:But right now, all we've got is a statement that if you don't shoot at them, they won't shoot at you. For this turn.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:03
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VolticSurge posted:I was. Is it too late to send different orders? Not at all, orders aren't due until Saturday night! Something did occur to me though- If you leave the cripples technically alive, they'll still be blocking your movement I think? That'll make it harder to directly follow your buddies up that 0924/0923 canyon. You might want to move differently and focus on the still mobile Shadow Hawks instead. Maybe something like getting up on 1339 out of the water, and then facing 1228? You could torso twist and unload very heavily on the blue Shadow Hawk along with Baudin's Archer. You would need only 7s (5s for pulses) to hit with all your weapons, same as the Archer. Depending on what happens on the next turn you could help him finish it off, blow away the white Shadowhawk, or just move north to join everyone else. I think one of the guys moving up the 9 series canyon could still probably aim a final crippling shot at that Marauder since even though it's torn the hell up, it's still mobile once it restarts and he's right that it could get up to bad mischief or just escape. On the other hand, in the first Carlos mission, the very badly damage cripples did in fact stay down and we didn't have to finish them off (Instead their ostensible compatriots did  ). It's a coin flip, but I'd lean on the side of taking moves that focus on active threats/getting to Carlos at the moment.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:08
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Dachshundofdoom posted:Okay, I'm looking at two separate move possibilities. Admittedly I'm far from the best source for advice here - big warning, right there - but I think #2 is the best choice. If I can survive this long, well, I'm sure I can at least clobber one of the bastards without assistance. For Pooncha!
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Dec 10, 2015 23:17
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Dachshundofdoom posted:Okay, I'm looking at two separate move possibilities. Doublepost time! I think from a "Meeting up with the Corsairs" pov, heading to the canyon around 1719/1720 is probably your best bet, since the grey Marauder is still hobbled by the river, and Jade Girl is still out of position as well. That does leave the Guillotine hanging a bit however, and I'd totally go more aggressive too, because it's more fun!. You could make for the river area: Your move to 1712, Carlos could move to 1714 facing 1613, and the Gallowglas could move to 2114 facing 2014 to help cover you against the Pillager's movement. Carlos would have great shots on Jade Girl, the Pillager, or the Green Marauder if they pursue. You would have similarly good shots on probably any of 4 enemy mechs, but as you noted you're also the most exposed. (You're also still in quite good shape armor wise though, to be fair. Even your leg could take another pillager kick with 1 armor left. I suspect the poor Gallowglas is going to eat the most fire this turn as it's the lightest and will have the lowest move mod). Meanwhile the Guillotine can pop up to 1609 and help put that green warhammer out of action. These positions keep all of you totally out of LoS of the Gold Warhammer, too, which is nice. e: The 3 Clainsairs are about 2 turns away from being able to get up to your present location, and once that happens you guys should be able to clean up or break away really. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:23
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I think my best (still not great option) is to run to 2114 and face 2014. That protects my rear, and lets me twist to shoot wherever. It does, however, open me up to dual kicks from the Marauder and the Pillager. The  option is for us all just to turn our backs to the nearest wall and wreck one of the bad guys.Gwaihir posted:Carlos could move to 1714 facing 1613. Carlos would have great shots on Jade Girl, the Pillager, or the Green Marauder if they pursue. Would I have LOS on Jade Girl from there? This is starting to look like a good option. Devorum fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:38
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Zaodai posted:In the interests of complete transparency: There is a possibility the passive Capellans may change their mind; they are Capellans, after all. But if you shoot first, the Capellans will definitely change their mind. If anything it is impetus to meet the objective as quickly as possible before the passives decide to stop being passive. You can go all  on them once you're all together.And kick the Golden Boy's metal rear end for me.
Pooncha fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:48
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Devorum posted:I think my best (still not great option) is to run to 2114 and face 2014. That protects my rear, and lets me twist to shoot wherever. It does, however, open me up to dual kicks from the Marauder and the Pillager. Yea, you definitely have LOS, and I think 4s to hit with your large X-Pulse lasers and 8 with your SRM6. e: He can fire back with 7s, so it's not a no risk option, but you're still a 100 tonner with armor in good shape, and between you and Pooncha you have a great change of punching through those really thin left or right torsos. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Dec 10, 2015 |
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Dec 10, 2015 23:53
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Dachshundofdoom posted:Okay, I'm looking at two separate move possibilities. You also have the option of putting your back to the wall (facing se) and staying in place so the ace mad cannot get past you this turn and the pillager will have to jump if it wants to, and buying carlos time to escape. (and shooting the hell out of golden boy)
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Dec 10, 2015 23:54
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Leperflesh posted:
This, always and forever this. Unless you're not feeling sanguine about the thread.
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Dec 11, 2015 01:10
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TheParadigm posted:I'm not sure what you want to do, mister wolverine, but a jump to 0821 gives you 15 range on the green hammer if we wanted to get a head start on breaking through north. Wolverine II I was thinking of going to 1021 and firing at the green warhammer, why 0821?
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Dec 11, 2015 05:31
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Kirenski posted:Wolverine II That hex clips 1316. no shot. Also, going northeast to 1423/1424 might be able to let you fire on the enemies behind carlos - I'd ask PTN due to vertical LOS stuff, but it looks like a fairly clear shot for gauss also. Not ideal numbers due to jumping and glare, but it gets you into the fight faster. TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 08:24
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I guess if Carlos does go down, so long as it's not another lucky (or rather, really unlucky) headcap he might still be alive and rescuable so long as the other Crusaders can keep the northern Capellans busy. What are the rules concerning killing a downed pilot, again?
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Dec 11, 2015 08:30
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Dolash posted:I guess if Carlos does go down, so long as it's not another lucky (or rather, really unlucky) headcap he might still be alive and rescuable so long as the other Crusaders can keep the northern Capellans busy. What are the rules concerning killing a downed pilot, again? A downed pilot can distract the enemy just enough to let his buddy execute a DFA to headcap them. That's how the Death Commandos won on Jeronimo, it would be sweet irony if the reverse happened to them here.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:48
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Alright, here are the orders I've sent: -- Movement I move my King Cobra north one hex into hex 1025, then turn towards hex 0925 and move into it. I then move one hex north and end my movement in hex 0924. Shooting I torso twist as needed and fire my ER Medium Laser at Shadow Hawk 'Bai Hu'. -- After reading the other comments I now think we should probably ignore the two downed mechs. Time is of the essence and if we have to shoot at something it should be at the Shadow Hawks which are a more immediate threat. I'll be hitting my target on a 12 but it's still worth a shot. Scintilla fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 14:52
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TheParadigm posted:That hex clips 1316. no shot. It looks like the 14 options don't have LOS- They're not high enough. 1324 does, though:  However! Thanks to the glare penalty combined with the jumping penalty, the shots are impossible. You'd need 13 to hit the Golden Warhammer, and who knows if the other two will even stay in LoS. If you jump to 0921, the green Warhammer is in medium gauss range, and I think it only has a +1 move mod for 2base + 3 jumped + 2 range + 1 enemy movement + 2 glare = 10 -A much better (but still iffy) chance. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 16:28
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Look at all these people taking this scenario way too seriously by actually trying to play the game correctly. why back in my day we just submitted orders without even knowing if they were legal! Uphill in the snow both ways!
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Dec 11, 2015 17:40
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Psion posted:Look at all these people taking this scenario way too seriously by actually trying to play the game correctly. why back in my day we just submitted orders without even knowing if they were legal! Uphill in the snow both ways! People are actually invested in these characters though: sure, it's fun when you can fire a long-tom into a mech's crotch, or when the the round comes down to two burning husks desperately trying to kick each other to death because they both lost all their weapons, but we also like to see assholes get their geese cooked every once in a while! As a side not, never actually try to cook a goose: all that fat is a goddamn nightmare of smoke and scrubbing.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:24
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So what's the plan for the northern group? Squish against the wall and wait for the cavalry or make a break for it?
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Dec 11, 2015 18:43
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I'm just happy that this mission looks like it will go without any players missing orders.
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Dec 11, 2015 19:04
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thetruegentleman posted:As a side not, never actually try to cook a goose: all that fat is a goddamn nightmare of smoke and scrubbing. What you do is, you barbecue a goose in your outdoor grill. Set up a (deep, big!) aluminum foil catch pan, put a little water into it so the heat stays moist, and then cook your goose over indirect-heat charcoal for a few hours at medium heat. Be sure to add some water-soaked wood chips for smokey flavor - probably not mesquite, go for like applewood or similar. The goose will dump a gallon of grease into the pan, which you just throw away, and the rest of the greasy smoke lining your grill will just burn off the next time you use it.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:00
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This further supports my theory that geese are extreme motherfuckers at all hours and all places.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:05
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