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I think my favourite actual conspiracy theory is the fact that Turkey is probably being run by a 'Deep State' who take unilateral action to make sure that Turkey stays safe in the face of some kind of omnipresent danger. Former Prime Ministers have acknowledged that something like that exists, and that it is a remnant of anti-communist guerrilla program left in the country by NATO after the end of WWII. It's basically the closest you can get to the actual Illuminati as possible while staying in the real world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Guerrilla I wonder what would happen if you showed this to a conspiracy nut. Would they start nodding along furiously or go "That's interesting I guess, but here let me tell you about Building 7 of the WTC"
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Dec 3, 2015 17:00
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I really don't think prosopagnosia is a major driving force behind crisis actor theories. When the disgruntled news anchor shot the reporter on camera in Roanoke, VA there were IMMEDIATELY crisis actor theories popping up. Same with the Charlie Hebdo shooting and the Boston bombing. The "this woman looks kind of like that woman!" stuff comes long after the immediate "this has to be fake" reaction that some people seem to have.
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Dec 3, 2015 17:48
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MikeCrotch posted:I think my favourite actual conspiracy theory is the fact that Turkey is probably being run by a 'Deep State' who take unilateral action to make sure that Turkey stays safe in the face of some kind of omnipresent danger. Former Prime Ministers have acknowledged that something like that exists, and that it is a remnant of anti-communist guerrilla program left in the country by NATO after the end of WWII. It's basically the closest you can get to the actual Illuminati as possible while staying in the real world. I was watching a video on Youtube that was about secret Rooms. Most were about hidden safes and shelters, but one was about a room found in Turkey that was operated by their Intelligence service that the police raided after they were found spying on their deputy PM. Inside the room was literally every conspiracy theory you could imagine, including shadow governments, false flags, vaccines and GMOs. It was weird because everything else in the video was pretty mundane, while secret.
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Dec 4, 2015 00:58
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Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:I really don't think prosopagnosia is a major driving force behind crisis actor theories. When the disgruntled news anchor shot the reporter on camera in Roanoke, VA there were IMMEDIATELY crisis actor theories popping up. Same with the Charlie Hebdo shooting and the Boston bombing. The "this woman looks kind of like that woman!" stuff comes long after the immediate "this has to be fake" reaction that some people seem to have. It is though - it was a completely fringe idea that was only taken seriously by the mentally ill. After Sandy Hook it became a mainstream thing because OBAMA and MY GUNS.
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Dec 4, 2015 14:11
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McDowell posted:It is though - it was a completely fringe idea that was only taken seriously by the mentally ill. After Sandy Hook it became a mainstream thing because OBAMA and MY GUNS. I don't think prosopagnoisa is a MAJOR driving force, the images used in these conspiracies are usually so lovely that its easy to willfully project similarities onto them. We could all agree that the girls in these pics resemble each other, but its another sort of mental illness or willful density to turn that observation into some nefarious plot.  I think another part of the rise of popularity in these theories is the proliferation of media pics and ease of image gathering on the internet. Two decades ago gathering hundreds of images from different world disasters and comparing them would require days at the library sifting through newspapers, and spreading the "pattern" you see would involve publishing a kooky book nobody would promote. Today it takes several minutes on the net and posting it on a few social media sites.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:17
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God. I blame that on the technical inexpertise to jam those pictures together and think it's not murdering detail. The first two faces are visibly probably ten years apart as well.
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Dec 6, 2015 06:42
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xthetenth posted:God. I blame that on the technical inexpertise to jam those pictures together and think it's not murdering detail. The first two faces are visibly probably ten years apart as well. She just has a very stressful job.
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Dec 7, 2015 03:14
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The human mind is amazingly good at creating and recognizing patterns, particularly when it comes to faces. There are many, many examples of people who independently look quite like each other, and many people when they see people usually recognize certain "types". Many of these "types" are quite universal and usually make up the basis of certain fictional representation of characters. It's quite a leap to make that these people are literally the same person and you just happen to be viewing them playing different characters. That's a straight up two-legged dive into mental illness.
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Dec 7, 2015 05:45
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There's actually only a few dozen people in the entire world, all government employees, all gang stalking crisis actors here to harass me.
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Dec 7, 2015 06:00
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Okay, so I sort of get being dumb enough to believe that Paris was a false flag - but being dumb enough to believe that no one actually knew or cared about the dead, in spite of people telling them so? That's just cold, and why their stupid "just asking questions" attitude really get under my skin.
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Dec 7, 2015 08:07
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Prosopagnoisa is not a reason for people believing in crisis actor crap. 'These two people look the same' is the most reasonable part of the entire thing, in order to believe it you would have to believe that 1) there is an entire industry of people involved in staging tragedies; 2) that this whole industry (which apparently involves regular celebrities and normal film makers) is somehow not readily apparent - like Stephen Spielberg is going to state the Boston Bombing and this enormous project would remain a secret; 3) that this industry is vast and complicated enough to pull off something like a stage bomb at an event with tens of thousands of people, but lazy/dumb enough to reuse the same handful of actors in key positions. There is no way to swallow all that unless you are seriously crazy in other ways. People with prosopagnoisa deal with their problem all the time, it's a natural part of their life. The fact that two victims at different tragedies look the same shouldn't be remarkable, because every day they see dozens of people who look interchangeable to them. They don't think that their supermarket cashier is also secretly their doorman and also their coworker and also their neighbor down the hall, they know these are different people that just look the same to them. Showing them these pictures and expecting them to react would be like showing someone a picture of twins and expecting them to assume that it's evidence of a secret government cloning project to breed super soldiers.
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Dec 7, 2015 15:54
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crowoutofcontext posted:I don't think prosopagnoisa is a MAJOR driving force, the images used in these conspiracies are usually so lovely that its easy to willfully project similarities onto them. We could all agree that the girls in these pics resemble each other, but its another sort of mental illness or willful density to turn that observation into some nefarious plot. What I'm seeing is a bunch of women with one of the most common complexions and hair colors wearing their hair in one of the most common women's styles making distressed faces. Whoever is making these pictures has like the reverse version of that thing that makes your racist grandpa think all black actors are the same guy.
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Dec 7, 2015 17:01
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crowoutofcontext posted:I don't think prosopagnoisa is a MAJOR driving force, the images used in these conspiracies are usually so lovely that its easy to willfully project similarities onto them. We could all agree that the girls in these pics resemble each other, but its another sort of mental illness or willful density to turn that observation into some nefarious plot. No those people really don't look similar other than that: a) they look like they're women (though one of them could just be a chunky dude with long hair) b) they're white. Ashcans posted:Prosopagnoisa is not a reason for people believing in crisis actor crap. 'These two people look the same' is the most reasonable part of the entire thing, It's not, because they usually don't look the same at all. The rest of the stuff in crisis actor is standard issue conspiracy theory false flag stuff, it's the "these are actually exactly thee same people" is what's different, and what's usually only believable at all if your ability to recognize faces is severely broken - or presumably if you're just regularly visually impaired, like beyond the point where glasses can really help.
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Dec 8, 2015 00:54
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Well maybe I do have some face blindness issues but the women in the pictures do look similar enough that I'd believe they could be the same woman. But then I also realize that, with 7 billion people in the world, it's highly likely that they're just women that look similar. Even so after looking closer they have different colored hair that they part in different places and I see differences in the nose. Of course that leads to "well she just gets plastic surgery between each crisis!" Which then leads to the question of why put that much effort into one woman when you could probably just hire a different batch of actors each time?
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Dec 8, 2015 13:14
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Yeah, is the crisis actor union really bad or something? Why would they keep hiring the same people?
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Dec 8, 2015 13:20
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Keep the crisis actor group small so word doesn't get out / you can easily off them at a later time  What is actually with the concept of fake shootings and crisis actors? Wouldn't it be easier to you know, actually shoot up these places?  Instead of going through the hassle of hiring fake grieving people, falsify police records, etc.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:58
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^^ But then you'd have real blood on your hands!Jack Gladney posted:Yeah, is the crisis actor union really bad or something? Why would they keep hiring the same people? Less people too keep track of and silence if necessary. II mean, if you assume a giant conspiracy bullshit thing then that is a fairly obvious conclusion to draw. A better question might be which they don't make more extensive use of makeup, wigs etc... But of course it is pointless to debate that since it is all bullshit anyway so. 
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Dec 8, 2015 14:02
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Logikv9 posted:Keep the crisis actor group small so word doesn't get out / you can easily off them at a later time It's just the "one step further" version of the people who cry false flag constantly. Even though the false flag theory just requires that the actual attacker and maybe his commander in the shadow government knows whats going on, while, transforming them from false flags to completely fake requires letting a lot more people in.
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Dec 8, 2015 15:38
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Logikv9 posted:Keep the crisis actor group small so word doesn't get out / you can easily off them at a later time I've tried to explain this so many times. Usually they just ignore it, but if one does chance an answer it's usually along the line of "They put these clues in there to taunt those of us who can see them". I think it plays into their plucky rebel alliance fantasy. Like the illuminati give a flying gently caress about the commentators on a conspiracy forum!
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Dec 8, 2015 18:57
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I have prosopagnosia and before I knew what it was I had felt like there were only a few dozen "styles" of human that everyone is a slight, imperceptible variation on. I never thought that people of the same "style" actually were the same person though; I think you need to have prosopagnosia combined with legit crazy to make the jump to crisis actor poo poo.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Well maybe I do have some face blindness issues but the women in the pictures do look similar enough that I'd believe they could be the same woman. But then I also realize that, with 7 billion people in the world, it's highly likely that they're just women that look similar. Crisis actor plots require the person to already be willing to believe that in the first place. Once that's believed, any similarities are proof (look at the videos that try to compare exact ear shapes or the placement of freckles) and any lack of similarity can be brushed off as makeup, plastic surgery, or the camera.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:14
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BattleMaster posted:I have prosopagnosia and before I knew what it was I had felt like there were only a few dozen "styles" of human that everyone is a slight, imperceptible variation on. I never thought that people of the same "style" actually were the same person though; I think you need to have prosopagnosia combined with legit crazy to make the jump to crisis actor poo poo. Well yeah; all of these conspiracy theories require you to be mentally ill and/or stupid first, any additional personality features beyond that will just shape one's perception of the various theories.
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Dec 8, 2015 19:36
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I originally posted this in the idiots on imgur thread, but the crisis actor/shooting hoax thing hit me personally once.GWBBQ posted:I once found a familiar photo on a truther blog while searching for something completely unrelated and felt compelled to read the comments. I've always found conspiracy theories fascinating so I've heard a lot of out-there stuff, but nothing could have prepared me for the full immersion mindfuck of reading the comments and seeing people arguing passionately that the people in that picture, myself included, do not exist.
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Dec 8, 2015 22:37
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The fake shooting thing has the same flaw as the JEWS DID 9/11 thing. It'd be much easier to keep secret and way simpler to just get some true believers in the police state/gun control or brainwash some people with Reptilian tech retrieved from Groom Lake to actually go and do those things. Supplying them with sensitive information and equipment to complete the job is a snap then too! But then there'd be no way to spot it as a false flag and thus feel superior to everyone else, eh? Wait a minute. What if conspiracy theorists are themselves crisis actors, discrediting real investigative work into--  *falls into black hole*
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Dec 8, 2015 23:51
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:The fake shooting thing has the same flaw as the JEWS DID 9/11 thing. It'd be much easier to keep secret and way simpler to just get some true believers in the police state/gun control or brainwash some people with Reptilian tech retrieved from Groom Lake to actually go and do those things. Supplying them with sensitive information and equipment to complete the job is a snap then too! Nah, they are just people who want to believe they understand something better than 'everyone else'. Some may be legitimately crazy, others may just only have such people around them (And with the internet, there's a boatload). Actually sitting down and thinking about everything logically takes effort. A lot of time, theories just sound good unless you know the more complex parts of the equation (Steel beams, yo). In way, even when shown direct evidence against, they recoil and double down as a defense. Normally, they'd have to deal with the fact most people think they are stupid, but see the end of line one. It feels kind of like a cop-out when I say "It's complicated", but people are complicated and have a range of emotions and needs that sometimes are fulfilled by conspiracy. I'm a materials scientist. I know a lot about metals. I know exactly how steel interacts in a high carbon fire. I can (and have) explain to a theorist that I spent a large portion of my life devoted to this literal one thing... and that they are wrong, show them exactly why, show them experiments detailing exactly why, how if it wasn't this way phones and computers wouldn't work.... ... And they'd think I'm stupid for believing the government story.
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Dec 11, 2015 00:15
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Tias posted:Okay, so I sort of get being dumb enough to believe that Paris was a false flag - but being dumb enough to believe that no one actually knew or cared about the dead, in spite of people telling them so? That's just cold, and why their stupid "just asking questions" attitude really get under my skin. I saw a crazy youtube from some conspiracy weirdo and he kept repeating, "nobody was hurt nobody was killed" about some school shooting. It really seemed like it was all a reaction to the random horror of life. They also took a break in the middle to smoke a bong.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWIkqEnVG8I
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Dec 11, 2015 04:34
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People do occasionally come back to reality. My brother-in-law has a new baby and that has snapped him out of the fringe. Which is good, because I was pretty certain it was going to be a Thing when my sister vaccinated the kid. All the stuff was linked too, so he changed his mind on a lot of whoo all at once.
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Dec 11, 2015 12:33
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katlington posted:I saw a crazy youtube from some conspiracy weirdo and he kept repeating, "nobody was hurt nobody was killed" about some school shooting. It really seemed like it was all a reaction to the random horror of life. They also took a break in the middle to smoke a bong. probably the most accurate interpretation of conspiracy weirdness millenials and anyone younger in the developed world have never experienced true misery, by which i mean the illuminati need to start ww3 to straighten everyone out
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Dec 11, 2015 12:33
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Armani posted:My beef is showing conspiracy theorists true blue, decades long plots and they just don't give a gently caress because it's - my guess- not sexy or fantastical enough. A lot seem to cling to poo poo you can't prove 100%, even in their favor. It's backwards, but many act (and have acted) like their life, self-worth, and self-esteem depends on it. So you have conspiracy theories or something similar, yet these other people are designated conspiracy theorists? What are you, the person trying to pass them off, if not a conspiracy theorist? A conspiracy propagandist? blowfish posted:millenials and anyone younger in the developed world have never experienced true misery, by which i mean the illuminati need to start ww3 to straighten everyone out Easy grandad. Sure millenial conspiracy nuts are soft and have never known the horrors you personally went through as a two-year old, but the illumaughty are working with the undead presidents at the round table in camelot and they said they'll bring them back, just for you. Rest easy. Deep Thought fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 14:34
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The thing is, there are conspiracies. Stuff that conspiracy theorists want to believe in (like manipulation of governments and blaming other nations for stuff they didn't do, or false flag attacks) happens all the time, and is fairly well-documented. The problem is that real conspiracies tend to be pretty boring unless you get someone to jazz it up in an article and a lot of them fall apart and get exposed. Watergate is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream, but it was blown wide open in fairly short order and reading about it is mostly a trail of "And then this reporter/agent found strange banking activity trying to take advantage of obscure laws that made them suspicious." You can try as hard as you can to make Watergate sound like an exciting action movie, but the fact of the matter is that most of it was just old white guys reading papers in their offices and meeting with informants. The second Gulf of Tonkin incident was blown out of proportion and had details covered up to turn a false alarm into a North Vietnamese attack on an American vessel as an excuse to start blowing up North Vietnam. But none of the real conspiracies are clear-cut stuff that looks like it came out of a movie. Instead of a room full of men in perpetual shadow deciding on how best to take over the world, it's stuff like details being left out of a report or fake details added in to provide an easy excuse to push legislation through, or concealing bombings from Congressional oversight. It's not exciting.
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Dec 11, 2015 18:20
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chitoryu12 posted:The thing is, there are conspiracies. Stuff that conspiracy theorists want to believe in (like manipulation of governments and blaming other nations for stuff they didn't do, or false flag attacks) happens all the time, and is fairly well-documented. The problem is that real conspiracies tend to be pretty boring unless you get someone to jazz it up in an article and a lot of them fall apart and get exposed. Watergate is a conspiracy theorist's wet dream, but it was blown wide open in fairly short order and reading about it is mostly a trail of "And then this reporter/agent found strange banking activity trying to take advantage of obscure laws that made them suspicious." You can try as hard as you can to make Watergate sound like an exciting action movie, but the fact of the matter is that most of it was just old white guys reading papers in their offices and meeting with informants. The second Gulf of Tonkin incident was blown out of proportion and had details covered up to turn a false alarm into a North Vietnamese attack on an American vessel as an excuse to start blowing up North Vietnam. The other thing is that actual, real world conspiracies aren't nearly as nasty as they are in fiction. The super, extremely competent people playing 11th dimensional chess and repeatedly saying "just as planned" don't really exist. Actual conspiracies are must smaller, probably not planned very well, and usually exist to answer the question "how do I get more money?"
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Dec 11, 2015 21:53
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I've had very little real world interaction with conspiracy theorists barring one uncle-in law's nephew who was full on crazy. His main thing seemed to be about money being a government conspiracy to control you (also energy being some sort of fiction and wind turbines potentially using up all the wind by evening out pressure/temperature imbalances to the point where they no longer occurred in the atmosphere, money was the main one). Based on what he said about them though it seemed more like some sort of reaction to the idea that the value of money is determined by the semi-mindless act of the market collective. He seemed to clearly feel the US dollar was some tool of the illuminati (he was British so I'm thinking he contracted most/all of it from American sites because his only argument for currency in general being a tool of the illuminati was 'just like the US dollar!'). I think that's just an easier thing to come to terms with, yes some shadowy force has designed and uses currency to control society but you've seen through it, you know what's happening and you can adapt yourself to it. There's a plan and you know about it. Somehow that's more comforting than 'there's a random unstable mess we all pretend makes sense and there's currently no way to possibly predict or understand it. Good luck!'
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Dec 12, 2015 03:22
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The other thing is that actual, real world conspiracies aren't nearly as nasty as they are in fiction. The super, extremely competent people playing 11th dimensional chess and repeatedly saying "just as planned" don't really exist. Actual conspiracies are must smaller, probably not planned very well, and usually exist to answer the question "how do I get more money?" Like Gulf of Tonkin was a conspiracy in some ways, as it was all about exploiting a situation with limited facts to create a narrative that best justified upping the scale of conflict in Vietnam. But as far as we know, none of it was actually planned. The people responsible just got a report that was really easy to distort and went with the flow. Watergate is the best example of how real American political conspiracies go: someone fucks up and gets caught actually working for the conspiracy, Nixon's government goes "Oh poo poo" and decides to try and hassle the investigation to keep their connections hidden instead of doing the smart thing and hanging the burglars out to dry, and that creates a paper trail and one very willing informant that provides the avenue to blow it wide open. Most conspiracies are really obvious and there's just little to no legal avenue toward reparations, whether due to corruption or loopholes.
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Dec 12, 2015 04:17
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Here's an article about Sandy Hook hoaxers that left me feeling sad and angry: What Kind of Person Calls a Mass Shooting a Hoax?
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Dec 12, 2015 19:01
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Why do those people harass the families? I can understand just accepting a conspiracy theory for peace of mind or to feel smart, but if they really believed that the shooting was faked then they wouldn't even believe that the families were real. I could see some good-faith loon following survivors around trying to catch them meeting with the CIA, but this seems to accept that the survivors are who they say they are and that they are to blame for something. This has to be diagnosable.
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Dec 12, 2015 20:19
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Jack Gladney posted:Why do those people harass the families? I can understand just accepting a conspiracy theory for peace of mind or to feel smart, but if they really believed that the shooting was faked then they wouldn't even believe that the families were real. I could see some good-faith loon following survivors around trying to catch them meeting with the CIA, but this seems to accept that the survivors are who they say they are and that they are to blame for something. This has to be diagnosable. For the same reason that a schizophrenic might scream at a television set after Oprah threatened to kill them on-air.
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Dec 12, 2015 20:24
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Jack Gladney posted:Why do those people harass the families? I can understand just accepting a conspiracy theory for peace of mind or to feel smart, but if they really believed that the shooting was faked then they wouldn't even believe that the families were real. I could see some good-faith loon following survivors around trying to catch them meeting with the CIA, but this seems to accept that the survivors are who they say they are and that they are to blame for something. This has to be diagnosable. The short answer is because the US ignores mental illness instead of treating it.
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Dec 12, 2015 21:06
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Evil Fluffy posted:The short answer is because the US ignores mental illness instead of treating it. This is wrong because they do this bullshit all over the anglosphere at least. I mean you do understand that no matter how free mental health stuff is, a lot of crazy people don't think they need treatment, right?
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Dec 12, 2015 22:06
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My favorite new theory is the san bernardino couple were actually a false flag assault squad, you know how people always report 3 or more shooters, well that's not because of confusion, it's because it's the false flag units. These guys got caught in the act and Obama is just using the Muslim story as cover.
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Dec 12, 2015 22:17
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