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Vicissitude posted:Right, right, and it would also foil tracking spells, but something with a more potent connection would probably leap the veil and get him anyway. Isn't blood magic the most potent there is? And that curse was a BLOODline curse. It's been pretty much established if someone can work with your blood, you're pretty hosed. They were able to track Molly to Arctis Tor using Charity's blood. So I would think a bloodline curse would be similarly powerful, especially fueled by an ancient ritual at a place of power. I mean, even Fix was concerned about his blood laying around in the last book, and he's the Summer Knight.
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Dec 12, 2015 22:39
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Vicissitude posted:Actually, wasn't there a situation where Harry said he actually could dodge a curse by hiding in the Nevernever? I seem to recall that. This is mentioned in Storm Front when Harry goes to Mac's to borrow his car, the magic crowd is there taking Shelter. Harry says that the place wouldn't protect him from a direct attack, and that he would have to go to the Nevernever for that. The concept wasn't fully fleshed out in the first book, though (I think it also said that Bianca had "major Influence" in the Nevernever, and that a vampire could only employ powerful magic there). Regarding the Eebs (Changes spoiler): https://twitter.com/longshotauthor/status/480824029943955456
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Dec 12, 2015 23:31
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Targeted thaumaturgy can't cross the veil. This is mentioned a lot, pretty clearly. In PG, they tracked them to where they crossed over, only discovering the location on the other side later.
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Dec 12, 2015 23:53
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Khizan posted:All that stuff is why I don't think it's that interesting that Catholicism is the 'default fantasy Christianity'. It has the pageantry and the history and the story. What else are they going to use? Generic American Protestantism? Anglican stuff? That weird Pentecostal tongue-speaker poo poo? None of that would play half as well as Catholicism does. I've always wanted to have Mormon themes in my urban fantasy ideas. If you set a story in Utah or Arizona, it can fit fairly well.
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Dec 12, 2015 23:55
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Gygaxian posted:I've always wanted to have Mormon themes in my urban fantasy ideas. If you set a story in Utah or Arizona, it can fit fairly well. Yeah, who doesn't love Plates in the Woods, magic undies, and your own slice of the multiverse when you bite it! I'd read that book. I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic anymore either.
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Dec 12, 2015 23:57
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Rygar201 posted:Yeah, who doesn't love Plates in the Woods, magic undies, and your own slice of the multiverse when you bite it! Eh, that's not all there is to it, and there's actually quite a few supernatural legends Mormons have or used to have of various areas in the American Southwest. For example, an old Mormon folk tale had a Mormon bishop encountering Bigfoot, and it turns out that Bigfoot is Cain. Cain and Abel Cain, to be precise. Or Mormon-themed ghost stories, and so forth. And Mormons can match Catholics in the whole "objects involved in religious history are really important" thing. I'm actually planning on writing a Dresden Files-esque story set mostly in Utah, Arizona, Nevada, California and all that, featuring both Catholic and Mormon monster hunter types. Essentially, the Mormons have their own Knights of the Cross, but they're more J Edgar Hoover FBI or Men in Black than holy knight types. And perhaps the pioneer LARPing that Mormon youth do (no seriously, I took part in that, we re-enact a couple miles of the pioneer trek) has some faith-based power in this setting. Basically I want to steal Jim Butcher's basic idea, give the monsters my own spin, and set it in the Southwest.
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Dec 13, 2015 00:07
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Gygaxian posted:Eh, that's not all there is to it, and there's actually quite a few supernatural legends Mormons have or used to have of various areas in the American Southwest. For example, an old Mormon folk tale had a Mormon bishop encountering Bigfoot, and it turns out that Bigfoot is Cain. Cain and Abel Cain, to be precise. Or Mormon-themed ghost stories, and so forth. And Mormons can match Catholics in the whole "objects involved in religious history are really important" thing. Please don't steal butcher's basic idea of women or minorities or gay people.
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Dec 13, 2015 01:45
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How is the Dresden TV series? I know it's pretty different (Butcher, I believe, actually told fans to wise up when there were a lot of complaints about how different it was) but how does it fare as its own thing? As far as urban fantasy stuff on the telly goes, I think I've seen most of the big ones except Supernatural (which is, I grant, probably the biggest one of all).
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Dec 13, 2015 01:53
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Wheat Loaf posted:How is the Dresden TV series? I know it's pretty different (Butcher, I believe, actually told fans to wise up when there were a lot of complaints about how different it was) but how does it fare as its own thing? It was decent. I don't think it was serialized at all, so each episode is more or less stand alone. They made Storm Front into the pilot, and I don't think any of the other books factor in there at all.
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Dec 13, 2015 01:56
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It will be interesting to see if the Rook TV series comes to anything. I wonder who could play Myfanwy? I sort of pictured her as Emilia Fox, actually.
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Dec 13, 2015 01:59
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computer parts posted:It was decent. I don't think it was serialized at all, so each episode is more or less stand alone. They made Storm Front into the pilot, and I don't think any of the other books factor in there at all. It was originally serialized, but then they put a guy from Charmed in control, who immediately deserialized all the episodes.
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Dec 13, 2015 02:01
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Gygaxian posted:Eh, that's not all there is to it, and there's actually quite a few supernatural legends Mormons have or used to have of various areas in the American Southwest. For example, an old Mormon folk tale had a Mormon bishop encountering Bigfoot, and it turns out that Bigfoot is Cain. Cain and Abel Cain, to be precise. Or Mormon-themed ghost stories, and so forth. And Mormons can match Catholics in the whole "objects involved in religious history are really important" thing. The problem is that the only background information people have on Mormons is, well, kind of ridiculous even by the standards of urban fantasy. Magic underwear, Native Americans have dark skin as a punishment for evil, baptizing dead people, gold plates in a hat, etc, etc, etc. The only people who know the kind of stuff you're talking about are other Mormons. That makes a Mormon urban fantasy a hard sell, I think.
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Dec 13, 2015 02:42
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Khizan posted:The problem is that the only background information people have on Mormons is, well, kind of ridiculous even by the standards of urban fantasy. Magic underwear, Native Americans have dark skin as a punishment for evil, baptizing dead people, gold plates in a hat, etc, etc, etc. The only people who know the kind of stuff you're talking about are other Mormons. Worked for the Doom novels!
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Dec 13, 2015 03:34
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Khizan posted:The problem is that the only background information people have on Mormons is, well, kind of ridiculous even by the standards of urban fantasy. Magic underwear, Native Americans have dark skin as a punishment for evil, baptizing dead people, gold plates in a hat, etc, etc, etc. The only people who know the kind of stuff you're talking about are other Mormons. That's fair enough, though I do live in Utah, and there's definitely a market for fiction involving Mormons. And I think I could pretty easily explain Mormon issues relevant in such a setting. At least I wouldn't be like Larry Correia and be obnoxious about real-life issues because of feeling persecuted over being Mormon. Honestly, my biggest problem with writing a Utah/Arizona Dresden Files homage is that nowhere in Utah or Arizona can I replicate anything close to the "it's a bad city, but it's MY city" feel that Chicago does. A crime lord or a vampire court in Salt Lake City or Tucson would be silly. Vegas at least could be used as the equivalent to Chicago in Nevada. And apart from Vegas, it's a bit hard to make anything as "pulpy" or Tropey as the Dresden Files is. I'm actually not sure where to go on Something Awful for advice on writing, Creative Convention? In any case, going back to the Dresden Files, I have a question, which is a bit spoilerish: Since it's strongly implied that you have to be the descendant of a king to wield the Swords of the Cross, who is Butters probably descended from? King Solomon or David? One of the Maccabees? Also, about Nicodemus, Is there any details beyond the Coins and the noose that imply that he's Judas Iscariot? Because I feel like the story implies he is Judas.
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Dec 13, 2015 07:06
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Gygaxian posted:In any case, going back to the Dresden Files, I have a question, which is a bit spoilerish: Since it's strongly implied that you have to be the descendant of a king to wield the Swords of the Cross, who is Butters probably descended from? King Solomon or David? One of the Maccabees? Eh, It's not as big of deal as Butcher tries to make out. If you are of European descent, you're directly related to Charlemagne. The same way that Eurasians can link their lineage to Genghis Kahn.
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Dec 13, 2015 07:15
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Gygaxian posted:A crime lord or a vampire court in Salt Lake City or Tucson would be silly. You could totally do a vampire court in SLC. The catch here is that the Mormon church would be fronting for them. Think about it. It started out as a geographically isolated religion. It emphasizes the importance of popping out kids and the members ignore and cut off people who leave the Church. So right here you have a perfect private feeding ground with strong population growth, and a built in mechanism to handle people killed by feeding. The genealogy focus and ancestor baptism stuff is a front for bloodline research of some sort. Vampire mind control explains how they sold the gold tablets stuff. The whole 'temple recommend' system is limiting access to their sanctuaries.
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Dec 13, 2015 08:19
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Khizan posted:The problem is that the only background information people have on Mormons is, well, kind of ridiculous even by the standards of urban fantasy. Magic underwear, Native Americans have dark skin as a punishment for evil, baptizing dead people, gold plates in a hat, etc, etc, etc. The only people who know the kind of stuff you're talking about are other Mormons. He could always go the Abe Lincoln, Vampire Hunter route and do revisionist history that explains away all the weird poo poo. Mormons stock two years of food because they survived the first zombie attack, the gold plates are actually the ones mankind sent to aliens on the Voyager (before the aliens sent them back to earth and inadvertently back in time), the genocide they committed against the native americans was... um ok, maybe don't touch that one. On the risk/reward front, there's a decent chance he could get excommunicated if it became popular  e: dude above me gets it.
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Dec 13, 2015 08:29
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Khizan posted:Think about it. It started out as a geographically isolated religion. It emphasizes the importance of popping out kids and the members ignore and cut off people who leave the Church. So right here you have a perfect private feeding ground with strong population growth, and a built in mechanism to handle people killed by feeding. The genealogy focus and ancestor baptism stuff is a front for bloodline research of some sort. Vampire mind control explains how they sold the gold tablets stuff. The whole 'temple recommend' system is limiting access to their sanctuaries. Love the idea, though.
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Dec 13, 2015 10:19
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Tunicate posted:It was originally serialized, but then they put a guy from Charmed in control, who immediately deserialized all the episodes. In case anyone wants to here Jim talk about this: youtube link edit:apparently the autoformatting of youtube links into the video tag strips out the time tag Slanderer fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 16:51
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Gygaxian posted:
Elvis
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Dec 13, 2015 17:10
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computer parts posted:It was decent. I don't think it was serialized at all, so each episode is more or less stand alone. They made Storm Front into the pilot, and I don't think any of the other books factor in there at all. Worth checking out, then?
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Dec 13, 2015 21:42
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If you treat it as a very much Alt. universe, Dresden files themed show, on a low budget and someone up top obviously trying to screw with it, and 10 year old SFX, it's okay. I wouldn't hold it up as a beacon of good watching or anything, but it was an entertaining enough way to spend a couple of evenings.
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Dec 13, 2015 22:04
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Fair enough. One of my favourite series is Forever Knight.
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Dec 13, 2015 22:54
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Gygaxian posted:That's fair enough, though I do live in Utah, and there's definitely a market for fiction involving Mormons. And I think I could pretty easily explain Mormon issues relevant in such a setting. At least I wouldn't be like Larry Correia and be obnoxious about real-life issues because of feeling persecuted over being Mormon. I think you can't really mimic Butcher's stuff exactly in the southwest, but then you really shouldn't try. You should take advantage of the unique features of the area. I'd recommend taking some hints from Tony Hillerman's Navajo mystery novels. Obviously, a lot of the details won't be useful, but the feel that Hillerman achieves, the heat, the dust, the wide open spaces? That's what the southwest brings. Don't try to fit Johnny Marcone into Utah, find something unique to Utah and bring it to your story. That'll work a lot better for you in the long run.
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Dec 13, 2015 23:05
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jng2058 posted:I think you can't really mimic Butcher's stuff exactly in the southwest, but then you really shouldn't try. You should take advantage of the unique features of the area. I'd recommend taking some hints from Tony Hillerman's Navajo mystery novels. Obviously, a lot of the details won't be useful, but the feel that Hillerman achieves, the heat, the dust, the wide open spaces? That's what the southwest brings. Don't try to fit Johnny Marcone into Utah, find something unique to Utah and bring it to your story. That'll work a lot better for you in the long run. No country for old men meets Dresden files. Sanya's eyes danced, though his face was sober. "You are a drug dealer. To tiny faeries. Shame. I shrugged. People complain about the bad things that happen to em that they don't deserve but they seldom mention the good. About what they done to deserve them things I reckon I knew what I'd done. Toot spun in a dizzy, delighted circle on one heel, and fell onto his back with perfectly unself-conscious enthusiasm, his tummy sticking out as far as it could. He lay there for a moment, making happy, gurgling sounds.
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Dec 14, 2015 03:06
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Shanakin posted:If you treat it as a very much Alt. universe, Dresden files themed show, on a low budget and someone up top obviously trying to screw with it, and 10 year old SFX, it's okay. I wouldn't hold it up as a beacon of good watching or anything, but it was an entertaining enough way to spend a couple of evenings. Also if you like the Harry Dresden as Detective bits you can then check out Arrow.
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Dec 14, 2015 07:23
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jng2058 posted:I think you can't really mimic Butcher's stuff exactly in the southwest, but then you really shouldn't try. You should take advantage of the unique features of the area. I'd recommend taking some hints from Tony Hillerman's Navajo mystery novels. Obviously, a lot of the details won't be useful, but the feel that Hillerman achieves, the heat, the dust, the wide open spaces? That's what the southwest brings. Don't try to fit Johnny Marcone into Utah, find something unique to Utah and bring it to your story. That'll work a lot better for you in the long run. That's fair enough. I do have a few ideas based around mostly Utah (since I've never been to the rest of the Southwest), like a trans-dimensional railroad as the Southwest's version of the ways (and also to complement the trans-continental railroad), the Great Salt Lake having some sort of protective property since it's a kind of like a giant circle of salt, etc. Maybe make it ambiguous or not on whether Brigham Young had sorcererous powers (the implication of which WOULD make a lot of Mormons uncomfortable). Perhaps I could have some sort of ley line at Four Corners, where Utah, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico meet. Possibly something in Utah to do with Norse mythology, since many people here are descended from Danish pioneers. I kind of feel like I need to be careful with Mormon issues in a few ways though, for one thing, I'm a member in good standing (though not that active as a member) and I don't want to jeopardize that. For another I don't want to make my story all Mormon, all the time. I want to show off all of Utah's cultural history, including parts non-Utahns don't really know about; like the fact that we have a strong Greek Orthodox community. Or the fact that we were the location of one of the Japanese interment camps. Neither of those cultural tidbits really have to do with Mormons, though Mormons were involved simply because they were and are the dominant religion. It's like having a story set in modern day Italy, you kind of can't avoid Catholicism there. And my main concern is that any kind of supernatural stuff set in Utah just seems a little absurd. I mean, Chicago, yeah, I could easily suspend my disbelief and take it for granted that Odin, the Faerie Queens, and others could be located there. But as nice as Salt Lake City is, I have trouble suspending my disbelief and going "yeah, I could see Loki or a demon running around there". I've thought of connecting the Donner Party to the wendigos (gold rushers who committed cannibalism becoming twisted creatures of cannibalism makes sense), but those are supposed to be way over in eastern Canada. And as someone else talked about wide open spaces, I don't generally get out of the suburbs, though of course I can utilize the experiences of half the population that has gone camping. Thanks for the advice in any case, guys. And it makes me think, Ramirez is the West Coast Warden, right? And presumably his area covers not just California, but a lot of the Western states, including Nevada (and Vegas, of course), Utah, Arizona, Oregon and Washington, etc. He must have had some interesting off-screen adventures there. Gygaxian fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 08:04
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Gygaxian posted:Eh, that's not all there is to it, and there's actually quite a few supernatural legends Mormons have or used to have of various areas in the American Southwest. For example, an old Mormon folk tale had a Mormon bishop encountering Bigfoot, and it turns out that Bigfoot is Cain. Cain and Abel Cain, to be precise. Or Mormon-themed ghost stories, and so forth. And Mormons can match Catholics in the whole "objects involved in religious history are really important" thing. Have you heard of Dogs in the Vineyard? Because this sounds exactly like the setting for Dogs in the Vineyard, one of the pioneer narrative-driven games that founded modern pencil-and-paper RPG game design.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:45
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computer parts posted:Also if you like the Harry Dresden as Detective bits you can then check out Arrow. Yeah, one good thing you can say about the series is the casting of Paul Blackthorne as Dresden. He's a lot of fun, and is now the face and voice of Dresden for me while reading. I can't help it, I read everything with his dry delivery, and picture him with Blackthorne's sarcastic smirk.  This, to me, is Harry Dresden, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 16:33
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Yeah it sucks for Paul that they hosed up that show badly.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:54
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SKIN GAME SPOILERGygaxian posted:In any case, going back to the Dresden Files, I have a question, which is a bit spoilerish: Since it's strongly implied that you have to be the descendant of a king to wield the Swords of the Cross, who is Butters probably descended from? King Solomon or David? One of the Maccabees? Easy: Walter Ostanek
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Dec 14, 2015 20:18
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Oh, if you want Southwest culture, I suggest you read Death Comes for the Archbishop by Willa Cather. It doesn't really go that much into supernatural mythologies but you get this amazing picture of Spanish invaders and of a time long past. It'll at least give you the same sort of "poo poo happened a long time ago but is still seen today" theme that's prevalent in fantasy books. Plus you can always do something like "a demon hitched a ride with the conquistadors and has been terrorizing the natives ever since."
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Dec 15, 2015 14:28
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just finished Skin Game man Heist movies and Denarians that poo poo is my jam
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Dec 16, 2015 05:09
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bowmore posted:just finished Skin Game Yeah, I loved it. I totally agree with some of the criticism that it could/should have been more Oceans 11 and less Train Job, but it was pretty great nonetheless. Murphy needs to get her poo poo together, though. Blasphemeral fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 20:51
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None of them are slick enough to pull off Oceans 11
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Dec 16, 2015 22:05
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bowmore posted:None of them are slick enough to pull off Oceans 11 It would also be a lot more boring told from only Harry's perspective.
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Dec 16, 2015 22:07
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Man I'm glad someone caught Marsters inbetween recording Summer Knight and Death Masks to let him know sigil isn't actually pronounced 'siggle'. I have no idea if Maeve is pronounced 'Mav' or 'Mayve' but if it's the latter, that's fixed too!
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Dec 18, 2015 21:10
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Illuyankas posted:Man I'm glad someone caught Marsters inbetween recording Summer Knight and Death Masks to let him know sigil isn't actually pronounced 'siggle'. I have no idea if Maeve is pronounced 'Mav' or 'Mayve' but if it's the latter, that's fixed too! I want to know who told him to change his Marcone voice so drastically and punch them in the face.
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Dec 18, 2015 21:12
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I wish he'd go back and re-record the ones where he sounds bored at the start of the novel.
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Dec 18, 2015 23:59
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Gygaxian posted:I've always wanted to have Mormon themes in my urban fantasy ideas. If you set a story in Utah or Arizona, it can fit fairly well. Clive Barker's The Great and Secret Show is definitely a read. Whether it's a good read or not, I'm not entirely sure, but it features a lot of Mormon Stuff. It's the first in a trilogy, but the second one came out in the 90s and the third will probably never be written. 14 year old me enjoyed it though!  e: Trigger warnings for literally everything though. Saith fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 13:43
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