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what's a tank even good for besides being a deathtrap? helicopters are already good enough at that
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Dec 14, 2015 06:28
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TheWhiteNightmare posted:what's a tank even good for besides being a deathtrap? helicopters are already good enough at that
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Dec 14, 2015 06:37
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Thump! posted:Holy hell, I'm guessing that smacked right into the fuel tanks? Ammunition cooked off.
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Dec 14, 2015 06:48
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TheWhiteNightmare posted:what's a tank even good for besides being a deathtrap? helicopters are already good enough at that They normally aren't.....when used right. The Syrians love to drive lone tanks into open fields or down tight roads with little to no infantry support, so anyone with a dollar store RPG-29 or one of the 500,000,000 TOWs dropped off in the country can plink them.
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Dec 14, 2015 07:14
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Is it like a rule that TOW gunners need to lazily drive the missile in drunk circles before finally dropping it into whatever armored shitbox happens to be trundling past? I never see any shots where it just kind of goes straight, but my only real frame of reference is Battlefield since our D. Co hogged all the TOWs.
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Dec 14, 2015 09:16
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Could be a javelin http://youtu.be/a4qpTgfJNJ0
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Dec 14, 2015 09:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:These uniforms, too clean for Ukrainian separatists. Only airsofters are so immaculate. 
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Dec 14, 2015 09:55
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chitoryu12 posted:They normally aren't.....when used right. The Syrians love to drive lone tanks into open fields or down tight roads with little to no infantry support, so anyone with a dollar store RPG-29 or one of the 500,000,000 TOWs dropped off in the country can plink them. I"m genuinely curious, what is it about Western tank tactics that would allow us to use them effectively in urban combat? I get that Syrians just sending tanks down the road alone is a recipe for disaster, but if the answer is infantry support then that infantry is going to have to go building-to-building to clear half the city ahead of the drat thing just so those dollar store RPGs and TOWs don't have a shot at it. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 14:51
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TheWhiteNightmare posted:I"m genuinely curious, what is it about Western tank tactics that would allow us to use them effectively in urban combat? I get that Syrians just sending tanks down the road alone is a recipe for disaster, but if the answer is infantry support then that infantry is going to have to go building-to-building to clear half the city ahead of the drat thing just so those dollar store RPGs and TOWs don't have a shot at it. Pretty much that, ya.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:09
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TheWhiteNightmare posted:I"m genuinely curious, what is it about Western tank tactics that would allow us to use them effectively in urban combat? I get that Syrians just sending tanks down the road alone is a recipe for disaster, but if the answer is infantry support then that infantry is going to have to go building-to-building to clear half the city ahead of the drat thing just so those dollar store RPGs and TOWs don't have a shot at it. 
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Dec 14, 2015 15:30
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lmao
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Dec 14, 2015 15:33
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There is something insanely funny about clearing mud huts with 120 mm of fury
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Dec 14, 2015 15:34
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Don't they carry Canister shot for it as well? So it's just a giant high velocity shotgun.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:43
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Stanley Goodspeed posted:Is it like a rule that TOW gunners need to lazily drive the missile in drunk circles before finally dropping it into whatever armored shitbox happens to be trundling past? I never see any shots where it just kind of goes straight, but my only real frame of reference is Battlefield since our D. Co hogged all the TOWs. Isn't that inflight maneuvering a built in countermeasure? I thought they flew erratically so they were harder to shoot down. I wouldn't be surprised if all TOW gunners were drunk though. Brown Moses/anyone, have you dug up any footage of a dragon or super dragon in iraq/syria? I need to get my weird rear end popcorn atgm on.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:46
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:Don't they carry Canister shot for it as well? So it's just a giant high velocity shotgun. There are similar type rounds for pretty much every size gun we have. There are 5" rounds that are basically big shotguns rounds after they explode as well. Here's a 5" in action. The gunners here certainly pissed off their boatswain mates, though. The black area on deck is a big rubber mat. They put that down so that the powder shells don't dent the deck. All 21 miss the mat and will have hosed up the non-skid on the deck pretty badly where they hit. Within a few days those spots are going to start rusting and there isn't a whole lot that can be done until they re-skid the deck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpXjshw_eT8
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Dec 14, 2015 15:52
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Bernard McFacknutah posted:Don't they carry Canister shot for it as well? So it's just a giant high velocity shotgun. An old TC of mine showed me a few pics of when an RPG team in an alley way shot the side of his tank. He called for a can round and lit up the alley way. Turns out 1200 tungsten balls moving at probably half a click a second shreds the walls of the alley, leaves a dark red smear and some tattered clothing, and turns the mud hut back stop into crazy swiss cheese.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:20
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Mr. Nice! posted:There are similar type rounds for pretty much every size gun we have. There are 5" rounds that are basically big shotguns rounds after they explode as well. That seems like a pretty small target for the empty shells... Are they supposed to turn the whole ship just so that the gun is at the right angle to vomit brass onto the rubber? Why not just make the mates bigger?
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Dec 14, 2015 16:27
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CAN rounds are made of magic and anger.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:54
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Munnin The Crab posted:That seems like a pretty small target for the empty shells... Are they supposed to turn the whole ship just so that the gun is at the right angle to vomit brass onto the rubber? Why not just make the mates bigger? The shells will land in almost the exact same spot every time. I've been on both sides of that situation and it isn't hard to put the mats in the right spot. There are more mats that they should have put out. Like they should have put the ones on the starboard side there around the ones on the left.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:00
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This answer is acceptable
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Dec 14, 2015 17:09
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TheWhiteNightmare posted:This answer is acceptable I like the Igloo cooler up top.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:14
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Booblord Zagats posted:I like the Igloo cooler up top. Yeah, that really completes the look.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:20
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Mr. Nice! posted:The shells will land in almost the exact same spot every time. I've been on both sides of that situation and it isn't hard to put the mats in the right spot. There are more mats that they should have put out. Like they should have put the ones on the starboard side there around the ones on the left. Ahh I was under the impression that the mats were immobile, like slotted into an indent in the deck or something. Wait, now that I think about it more, why doesn't the Navy use combustible cases like tanks do? Having a bunch of cylinders rolling around a deck during a potential engagement seems like a hazard that someone would have nixed somewhere along the line. That, or some kind of reflective tape dispenser that slaps a PT belt onto every spent round as it exits the turret. Safety first, sailor! Edit: Combustible cases + ship makes less sense now that I think about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMs4IJQVRYM Diabeesting fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 17:21
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Booblord Zagats posted:I like the Igloo cooler up top. gotta keep the Rockstars cold, brah e- you just know Drowning Pool or Static-X is blaring over that tanks comms, too
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Dec 14, 2015 17:28
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It'd probably just eat a TOW and burn out in an open field because that's how armor works in the Arab world but I always liked the BMPT Terminator. You don't need a 120mm cannon to shred muds and their huts so gently caress it, double Shipunovs and grenade launchers!   They actually sold a few and IIRC there was some controversy cause it is basically a tin pot dictator's democracy repression dream machine.
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Dec 14, 2015 18:32
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Yeah, but look at how cool that thing is! I want one!
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Dec 14, 2015 18:52
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The Russians learned all these lessons in Grozny. I have no idea why the Syrians are wasting their tank park day after day. It's pretty hosed up to see them make the same mistakes constantly.
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Dec 14, 2015 19:41
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Potential BFF posted:It'd probably just eat a TOW and burn out in an open field because that's how armor works in the Arab world but I always liked the BMPT Terminator. You don't need a 120mm cannon to shred muds and their huts so gently caress it, double Shipunovs and grenade launchers! This vehicle is really fun to play in armored warfare
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Dec 14, 2015 19:44
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Frosted Flake posted:The Russians learned all these lessons in Grozny. I have no idea why the Syrians are wasting their tank park day after day. It's pretty hosed up to see them make the same mistakes constantly. This is the bit for me. Why the gently caress aren't they learning and adapting their tactics??
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Dec 14, 2015 20:01
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Frosted Flake posted:The Russians learned all these lessons in Grozny. I have no idea why the Syrians are wasting their tank park day after day. It's pretty hosed up to see them make the same mistakes constantly. Because learning doctrine takes time, money, and intelligence. There's a reason actual professional national militaries took so long to catch on: they're not easy.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:06
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monkeytennis posted:This is the bit for me. Why the gently caress aren't they learning and adapting their tactics?? I can't imagine the Syrians having great training standards.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:07
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Some nice F-18 footage https://vimeo.com/147887013
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Dec 14, 2015 20:26
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monkeytennis posted:This is the bit for me. Why the gently caress aren't they learning and adapting their tactics?? Probably incompetent tankers paired with incompetent, badly-trained conscripts who are led by NCOs that have their jobs based more on being Alawite than competent. The latest effort by the SAA to retake areas in the south was bloody as gently caress and resulted in fairly marginal gains.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:38
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This makes me happy
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Dec 14, 2015 21:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4MhKShZ0SU Okey-Dokey.  Might as well let the Russians do it.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:08
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Dilettante. posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4MhKShZ0SU I think this group is called White Wolf or something like that. They're a private military training company based out of Kiev, kinda like the Ukrainian Chris Costa analogue.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:10
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Zeroisanumber posted:Probably incompetent tankers paired with incompetent, badly-trained conscripts who are led by NCOs that have their jobs based more on being Alawite than competent. The latest effort by the SAA to retake areas in the south was bloody as gently caress and resulted in fairly marginal gains. lol if you think any arab army has NCOs that are allowed to do absolutely anything without the officer's say-so.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:14
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monkeytennis posted:This is the bit for me. Why the gently caress aren't they learning and adapting their tactics?? It is rather difficult to "learn from your mistakes" when doing it the wrong way is usually fatal.
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Dec 15, 2015 00:42
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MRC48B posted:It is rather difficult to "learn from your mistakes" when doing it the wrong way is usually fatal. There's gotta be Syrian intelligence people browsing youtube vids of their own army getting owned.
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Dec 15, 2015 01:10
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brains posted:lol if you think any arab army has NCOs that are allowed to do absolutely anything without the officer's say-so. It's probably actually this. As much as I hate to use the word, the work "culture" in these militaries is very, very much "gently caress you do what I tell you because I'm a member of the ruling family/right tribal affiliation/sunni or shia/paid the right bribes/whatever and you are beneath me in everything. Exactly which one of those applies varies from place to place but whatever is chosen the guys on top loving stay there and everyone else god drat well does what they say. No feedback allowed, they're right you're loving wrong do it. Training/technical manuals, for example, are hoarded like treasure to officers only because letting the enlisted guys know more than the officers about anything at all is undermining how things are arranged. If the officers aren't the ones getting hurt/killed by these problems then zero fucks are given and nothing will change.
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Dec 15, 2015 03:30
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