|
Who is the man?? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Goku |
|
202 | 7.09% |
| Vegeta |
|
279 | 9.79% |
| Krillin |
|
208 | 7.30% |
| Piccolo or his nameks |
|
212 | 7.44% |
| Gohan or Cool Gohan |
|
135 | 4.74% |
| Yamcha |
|
90 | 3.16% |
| Tien |
|
120 | 4.21% |
| Muten Roshi |
|
89 | 3.12% |
| Tao Pai Pai |
|
71 | 2.49% |
| Frieza |
|
69 | 2.42% |
| Cell or an android |
|
86 | 3.02% |
| Buu |
|
62 | 2.18% |
| Hercule "Mark" Satan |
|
327 | 11.48% |
| Videl |
|
90 | 3.16% |
| Bulma |
|
104 | 3.65% |
| Yajirobe |
|
99 | 3.47% |
| Ginyu or other Frieza squad guy |
|
68 | 2.39% |
| King kai or another kai |
|
53 | 1.86% |
| Chi-Chi |
|
83 | 2.91% |
| Goten |
|
43 | 1.51% |
| Trunks or Cool Trunks |
|
112 | 3.93% |
| Bardock |
|
48 | 1.68% |
| Other villain of DB,Z, or GT(please post about it!) |
|
41 | 1.44% |
| Uub |
|
42 | 1.47% |
| Oolong |
|
90 | 3.16% |
| Zamasu |
|
26 | 0.91% |
| Total: | 1326 votes | ||
|
I mean we already know from the Manga spoilers exactly how important Son Gohan is going forward, plus I'm not sure even Zenkais can overcome the large amount of Chump that they have saddled him with, but all I'm saying is he should be stronger and we should get an arc where he starts taking performance enhancing drugs to get that way. Maybe inject himself with Buu cells or something.
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 16:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
Gildiss posted:Vegeta and Goku eating pizza while floating in a featureless void. projecthalaxy posted:Maybe inject himself with Buu cells or something. see this is the kind of hilarious madness i expect from my drgons ball
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Baal posted:Let me tell you how well told I felt the story was told when Freeza pulled a 100% mode out of his butt or when Cell explains how he came back from self-destructing and that not only used a zenkai to push him back into Perfect Form but also give his perfect form a super saiyan boost. This is ignoring his core cell apparently wasn't blown out of his skull when Goku vaporized his entire upper half. "Out of his butt". Freeza spent the whole goddamn fight since he hit Final Form saying how he was fighting at X% of his power. Hell, I'm pretty sure he pointed out his current percentage of power more than Vegeta said he had become A SUPER SAIYAN. The Cell thing did come out of nowhere though (plus it was a retcon considering how Namekian regen needs you to keep your head...which Cell ignores, twice). That said, saying it was no point to it...I'd say that "villain self-destructs" would be a really boring way to end a fight and it would make the entire plot about Gohan having a ridiculous hidden power in him totally pointless if Cell just killed himself instead. And this is basically the only time in the series in which Toriyama actually went the whole way with that instead of pointing it out then having Gohan rely on someone else anyways.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
Trunks and Goten on Namek
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:03
|
|
|
Baal posted:Let me tell you how well told I felt the story was told when Freeza pulled a 100% mode out of his butt or when Cell explains how he came back from self-destructing and that not only used a zenkai to push him back into Perfect Form but also give his perfect form a super saiyan boost. This is ignoring his core cell apparently wasn't blown out of his skull when Goku vaporized his entire upper half. Uh, yes they were both good stories? Frieza's 100% form let him stay around long enough for Super Saiyan Goku to have an actual fight before he was finally defeated and Cell's Zenkai boost put the ball back in his court for the final high stakes beam struggle. The 'protagonist nearly beats the antagonist, but has victory snatched from them by an 11th hour powerup for a seemingly hopeless final bout' is the one of the most well-worn shounen storytelling tropes around, it's even practically identical to how the iconic Jotaro-Dio fight plays out in JJBA, or was Dio's max power form 'wasted' by his soul exploding five minutes later? Kild posted:I think it's cool to have established rules in your world that are used and abused by the characters and Author in interesting ways like in HxH. It's a different way of doing things but it's never really appealed to me. In any case, it's interesting how the founders of the genre were alot more happy to play loosely with the rules of their worlds whereas modern series tend to have more hard-and-fast fleshed out power systems, I wonder if it's in part a reaction of younger mangakas to the percieved shortcomings of fighting in the older, iconic series like Dragonball? No Dignity fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Dec 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:04
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:it even practically identical to how the iconic Jotaro-Dio fight plays out in JJBA, or was Dio's max power form 'wasted' by his soul exploding five minutes later? if cell had become that fabulous when he came back you might have a point. beauty like that justifies its own existence however ephemeral.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:07
|
|
|
Squallege posted:Trunks and Goten on Namek What? When were they on Namek?
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
What's great about how DBZ handles power levels even if it makes no sense is that we get situations like Piccolo getting a single power up and suddenly being able to take on Cell and Android 17, which is fun and cool. More side characters need to get inexplicable power-ups that put them on par with the current villains, it will make the show more fun.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:31
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:It's a different way of doing things but it's never really appealed to me. In any case, it's interesting how the founders of the genre were alot more happy to play loosely with the rules of their worlds whereas modern series tend to have more hard-and-fast fleshed out power systems, I wonder if it's in part a reaction of younger mangakas to the percieved shortcomings of fighting in the older, iconic series like Dragonball? Honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that, to my knowledge, a lot of the people who wrote things like Dragonball weren't nerds. Or, at least, weren't fans of these kinds of comics growing up. IIRC, Toriyama worked in marketing before doing a very successful comedy series called Dr. Slump. Afterwards, he decided to try his hands at what was supposed to be an 8 issue adventure series. Compare that to Oda who was a big fan of Dragonball growing up and wanted to make a big series like it. It just feels like that difference in background can lead to a shift in priorities from "just have fun with the powers and have them serve the story" to "have fun with the powers, but have them rigidly defined." Of course, both series are great which just shows both viewpoints work since what makes or breaks a comic series isn't, generally, this single factor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
Augus posted:What's great about how DBZ handles power levels even if it makes no sense is that we get situations like Piccolo getting a single power up and suddenly being able to take on Cell and Android 17, which is fun and cool. More side characters need to get inexplicable power-ups that put them on par with the current villains, it will make the show more fun. Or Piccolo deciding he can go to Namek and help in the fight against Freeza after dying to Nappa and then spending 3 whole days training/meditating on Kai's planet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 17:44
|
|
|
The simplest answer I ever heard for "why don't they zenkai" is that you stop getting them once you reach Super Saiyan. It fits with every Saiyan character we see in the series and for cell you just make the argument that he is a weird biological nightmare so who the gently caress knows what happens with him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Augus posted:What's great about how DBZ handles power levels even if it makes no sense is that we get situations like Piccolo getting a single power up and suddenly being able to take on Cell and Android 17, which is fun and cool. More side characters need to get inexplicable power-ups that put them on par with the current villains, it will make the show more fun. Didn't Guru say something about Piccolo being stronger than Freeza when fused? Pretty sure that was before he got the Nail powerup too. It's still a big powerup, but its not like it came out of nowhere
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
When did Senzu beans go from being "here's a bunch of energy, like a bean full of food and rest" and switch over to being miraculous healing things?
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
Covok posted:Honestly, I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that, to my knowledge, a lot of the people who wrote things like Dragonball weren't nerds. Or, at least, weren't fans of these kinds of comics growing up. IIRC, Toriyama worked in marketing before doing a very successful comedy series called Dr. Slump. Afterwards, he decided to try his hands at what was supposed to be an 8 issue adventure series. Compare that to Oda who was a big fan of Dragonball growing up and wanted to make a big series like it. Yeah, this is what I was trying to (politely) get at. Even if series like HunterXHunter do use internally consistent universes well, it seems like you're kinda missing the point of Dragonball if you're mad Goku didn't spend all day having Gohan kicking him in the dick until his power level was 9x10[1000000], that's never the tone the story went for No Dignity fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
jivjov posted:When did Senzu beans go from being "here's a bunch of energy, like a bean full of food and rest" and switch over to being miraculous healing things? End of the Piccolo Jr. fight, I think. A Steampunk Gent posted:Yeah, this is what I was trying to (politely) get at. Even if series like HunterXHunter do use internally consistent universes well, it seems like you're kinda missing the point of Dragonball if you're mad Goku didn't spend all day having Gohan kicking him in the dick until his power level was 9x10[1000000], that's never the tone the satory went for Yeah, I kind of agree. Honestly, I feel people take cartoons, comics, and other such things too seriously on the Internet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:13
|
|
|
Covok posted:Yeah, I kind of agree. Honestly, I feel people take cartoons, comics, and other such things too seriously on the Internet. It's the same kind of criticism born from people being obsessed with plot holes and the like.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
jivjov posted:When did Senzu beans go from being "here's a bunch of energy, like a bean full of food and rest" and switch over to being miraculous healing things? After Goku's loss against Piccolo Sr.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
Raxivace posted:It's the same kind of criticism born from people being obsessed with plot holes and the like. Yeah, like that game theorist guy on YouTube that I saw once or those "Everything Wronh With X in 5 minute" videos. It's like, yeah, they have some plot holes (though some are you being dumb), but who cares? It was a good flick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:Uh, yes they were both good stories? Frieza's 100% form let him stay around long enough for Super Saiyan Goku to have an actual fight before he was finally defeated and Cell's Zenkai boost put the ball back in his court for the final high stakes beam struggle. The 'protagonist nearly beats the antagonist, but has victory snatched from them by an 11th hour powerup for a seemingly hopeless final bout' is the one of the most well-worn shounen storytelling tropes around, it's even practically identical to how the iconic Jotaro-Dio fight plays out in JJBA, or was Dio's max power form 'wasted' by his soul exploding five minutes later? That's not even a little comparable. There is still a fight that happens after the power up and everything about the conclusion makes loving sense from a character and pacing perspective with the exception of the random bouts of flying. It is a well constructed fight that does not just have things happen for no reason and it is cool. Cell popping the gently caress up, negating everything that made that character even a little bit unique and then having a beam duel with Gohan is so loving boring. It's not even comparable to literally every other DBZ villain who doesn't have to do that at the end of their fights and all of those fights end in cool ways or with fun fights, at least. Saying that you can just do things because it's dramatic is loving stupid. I don't even care about internal consistency in DBZ, because it's DBZ and my favorite part of the series is the Buu stuff, but it's not a well told story. Especially when Cell is just allowed to do things he shouldn't be able to when the crux of his character was always that he has to follow rules. It is boring if he just died at the self-destruction, yes, but it is just as equally tiresome for him to act like nothing happened and the drama to shift in his favor because Toriyama can't find an appropriate middle man like he could with literally every other villain. Covok posted:Yeah, like that game theorist guy on YouTube that I saw once or those "Everything Wronh With X in 5 minute" videos. It's like, yeah, they have some plot holes (though some are you being dumb), but who cares? It was a good flick. Why would you ever watch one of those
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
Baal posted:Why would you ever watch one of those Boredom and curiosity. Same reason people watch anything.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
fair enough
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:02
|
|
|
Also, IIRC, the one I saw was one linked here earlier about the guy trying to prove the Kamehameha wave was plasma. It was a really dumb, really long pseudo-scientific argument that could only be written by someone with more ego than sense. So, ya know, standard affair for a Dragonball Z fan theory video.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:04
|
|
|
You're arguing about consistency in a series where Goku ascended to God-level and got OHKO'd by a ring laser.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
That poo poo was stupid too
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:08
|
|
|
Baal do you like DBZ
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
I love DBZ, yes
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:25
|
|
|
Big Authentic Anime Lad loves DBZ, hates your poo poo
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
I liked cell popping back up, btw, because it allowed Gohan's character arc to finish.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
I mean it's cool in the sense that Super Perfect Cell is more fun to play in most games than regular Perfect Cell
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
Baal posted:That's not even a little comparable. There is still a fight that happens after the power up and everything about the conclusion makes loving sense from a character and pacing perspective with the exception of the random bouts of flying. It is a well constructed fight that does not just have things happen for no reason and it is cool. Cell popping the gently caress up, negating everything that made that character even a little bit unique and then having a beam duel with Gohan is so loving boring. It's not even comparable to literally every other DBZ villain who doesn't have to do that at the end of their fights and all of those fights end in cool ways or with fun fights, at least. Cell's central gimmick is having other peoples bullshit abilities and the climax is him abusing the poo poo out of his regeneration abilities alongside the Saiyans' Zenkai ability to reach peak cheesy powergame character form, it's not my favourite fight and I'd agree it doesn't hold a candle to Jotaro vs Dio but it's set up perfectly well by prior events and is a fitting conclusion to a villain who spends the entire arc grinding out humans for exp and boasting about his unbeatable mutli-class build. The only thing which is really an asspull is pinching Instant Transmission but all that really achieves is bringing Cell back to the arena, otherwise there's nothing which isn't set up by Cell's ridiculous swiss-army powerset and him being high on power Also Namtab posted:I liked cell popping back up, btw, because it allowed Gohan's character arc to finish.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Well like, it'd have been a lovely end to the cell games if it's just Gohan gets arrogant and cell is gonna blow up earth, Goku teleports cell away and they both die. In bringing cell back stronger than ever Gohan gets to properly save the day and redeem himself and thus be a true successor to his father (for 7 years)
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
A Steampunk Gent posted:Yeah, this is what I was trying to (politely) get at. Even if series like HunterXHunter do use internally consistent universes well, it seems like you're kinda missing the point of Dragonball if you're mad Goku didn't spend all day having Gohan kicking him in the dick until his power level was 9x10[1000000], that's never the tone the story went for It doesn't even matter since anyone he has to fight would match that strength anyway. I mean, Goku and Vegeta attained a power that is only seen once in a thousand years, and Dr. Gero still made multiple people that were stronger then that just because.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Namtab posted:Well like, it'd have been a lovely end to the cell games if it's just Gohan gets arrogant and cell is gonna blow up earth, Goku teleports cell away and they both die. I agree, I'm not disagreeing that is also a boring ending. I don't even dislike Super Perfect Cell as a concept, it's cool that Cell can kinda do the saiyan power up thing. What I don't like is how it just all happens at once in the span of a few minutes and Gohan and Cell never really even get like a proper fight as equals. A Steampunk Gent posted:Cell's central gimmick is having other peoples bullshit abilities and the climax is him abusing the poo poo out of his regeneration abilities alongside the Saiyans' Zenkai ability to reach peak cheesy powergame character form, it's not my favourite fight and I'd agree it doesn't hold a candle to Jotaro vs Dio but it's set up perfectly well by prior events and is a fitting conclusion to a villain who spends the entire arc grinding out humans for exp and boasting about his unbeatable mutli-class build. The only thing which is really an asspull is pinching Instant Transmission but all that really achieves is bringing Cell back to the arena, otherwise there's nothing which isn't set up by Cell's ridiculous swiss-army powerset and him being high on power Except for the fact that he completely ignored how those abilities work and not only gains the form he wasn't in and had to eat another person to obtain, but he gets even stronger than that. It is not set up well, it is not paced well, and it is not an interesting final encounter either. It does what it needs to do, but it is ultimately a wet fart of a conclusion compared to every DBZ villain's final fight. This is ignoring that he explains he needs the core cell in his head to do this poo poo and he loving had his entire head exploded twice. I'm not asking why it happened, not even saying it didn't need to happen, I'm saying there is a better paced and story appropriate thematic conclusion in there and the one we got sucked wet farts and Toriyama did not tell a good story with it. Momomo posted:It doesn't even matter since anyone he has to fight would match that strength anyway. I mean, Goku and Vegeta attained a power that is only seen once in a thousand years, and Dr. Gero still made multiple people that were stronger then that just because. I don't care for this either, but like this is like the bottom in the list of complaints I have about the Cell Saga.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:44
|
|
|
I like Semi-Perfect Cell's giant fat waddly "I'm about to blow up" form and wish it had been used more. It's funny looking.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:47
|
|
|
projecthalaxy posted:I like Semi-Perfect Cell's giant fat waddly "I'm about to blow up" form and wish it had been used more. It's funny looking. Fat cell vs. Veku & Fat Gotenks (Gunks? Truten?) would be fun
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
Enourmo posted:5 seconds? the loving beam struggle lasted like 3 episodes It was resolved in the same chapter or the next chapter in the manga. Blaze Dragon posted:The Cell thing did come out of nowhere though (plus it was a retcon considering how Namekian regen needs you to keep your head...which Cell ignores, twice). Seems like a combo of Freeza's survival and Namek regen to some highly increased degree.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
Kild posted:It was resolved in the same chapter or the next chapter in the manga. Doesn't it go for like an episode too? I know it's just goofy hyperbole, but it's really easy to forget how many times a key point in a fight takes more than 1 episode because of stretching out for time. I think Super Buu after absorbing Gotenks lasted several episodes in the anime while he did stuff for about 4 chapters in the manga.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 00:52
|
|
|
Baal posted:Doesn't it go for like an episode too? I know it's just goofy hyperbole, but it's really easy to forget how many times a key point in a fight takes more than 1 episode because of stretching out for time. I think Super Buu after absorbing Gotenks lasted several episodes in the anime while he did stuff for about 4 chapters in the manga. I think it was 1 and a half episodes. (190 + 191)
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
Enourmo posted:5 seconds? the loving beam struggle lasted like 3 episodes Weekly reminder that this was eight pages in the manga
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 11:47 |
|
|
I'm looking forward to reading the Dragonball manga when I've finished my current backlog of books, experiencing the epic story of Goku and his friends without the glacial pacing and painful filler of the anime sounds like a real blast!
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2015 01:48
|
|