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Notorious b.s.d. posted:ok this is a fair point. 15% is a lot more than nothing. i wouldn't want to see the mta give up on express buses because the improvements are more modest than hoped for. a person like shaggar is irrelevant, because shaggar lives in a semi-rural wasteland. saggar isn't being inconvenienced by rush hour ROWs because there aren't any where he lives.
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Dec 15, 2015 21:42
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infernal machines posted:a person like shaggar is irrelevant, because shaggar lives in a semi-rural wasteland. saggar isn't being inconvenienced by rush hour ROWs because there aren't any where he lives. there are shaggars everywhere modestly wealthy people with cars who would sooner slit their own throats than ride a transit bus to work (solution: tax cars until the shaggars slit their throats or ride)
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Dec 15, 2015 21:50
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would still rather slit my own throat along with everyone else.
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Dec 15, 2015 21:52
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or more likely just get rid of the people mandating the taxes, not that they'd ever get into office in the first place.
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Dec 15, 2015 21:52
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:there are shaggars everywhere  and no doubt, we have plenty of suburban shaggars up here. hilariously their constant stonewalling of transit expansion (NO NEW TAXES!!) is the whole reason many of these lines are still buses on the street instead of higher order transit that's not in their way.
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Dec 15, 2015 22:01
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Shaggar posted:would still rather slit my own throat along with everyone else. traffic problem solved then
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Dec 15, 2015 22:05
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like most americans, i don't actually ride buses ever i just want all the cars the gently caress out of my way http://www.theonion.com/article/report-98-percent-of-us-commuters-favor-public-tra-1434 the onion, as ever, is 100% true http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/09/if-so-many-people-support-mass-transit-why-do-so-few-ride/380570/
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Dec 15, 2015 22:46
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a reminder that buses were implemented in many cities as a literal conspiracy to destroy streetcar lines and sell buses
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Dec 15, 2015 22:53
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yard salad posted:a reminder that buses were implemented in many cities as a literal conspiracy to destroy streetcar lines and sell buses this is sort of true streetcars were both expensive and inflexible, and since ridership patterns were changing rapidly, city authorities were incredibly enthusiastic about the flexibility offered by buses yes there was a conspiracy, but the conspiracy was to sell specifically Firestone® brand tires and General Motors® buses as opposed to other brands. streetcars were dead either way. it was just a matter of who was gonna be the big winner in the new market for motorized buses.
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Dec 15, 2015 22:58
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:like most americans, i don't actually ride buses ever the problem is every time they vote to expand or continue transit its always the worst kinds like buses.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:10
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unfortunately, buses are the cheapest, the better kinds cost more, which means more of those dreaded taxes, tolls, and fees
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Dec 15, 2015 23:15
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im fine w/ taxes and fees and tolls for good transit but buses are very bad transit.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:22
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like if you're a big enough city that you need public transit you can afford subway or etrains. otherwise you're kidding yourself about your size and everyone can just walk.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:22
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Shaggar posted:im fine w/ taxes and fees and tolls for good transit but buses are very bad transit. the problem is that we still need very bad transit. buses are bad, and you will never ride one, but we still need that service to be provided to people who are not you
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Dec 15, 2015 23:23
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Shaggar posted:like if you're a big enough city that you need public transit you can afford subway or etrains. otherwise you're kidding yourself about your size and everyone can just walk. smaller cities still need transit, and they're not gonna levy billions in bonds to build subways. on top of that, subways will never be enough on their own. it is not remotely practical to get a subway stop within walking distance of every destination in a city. not even close. you will always need other transit systems on top of the subway
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Dec 15, 2015 23:25
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Shaggar posted:like if you're a big enough city that you need public transit you can afford subway or etrains. otherwise you're kidding yourself about your size and everyone can just walk. no, that's some bullshit from someone who has never lived in an actual city in reality there are routes you need to service to have a proper network that will never have the ridership to justify an LRT or subway. people still take transit, but not enough of them to offset the massive capital and operational costs of dedicated infrastructure. unless you really want to be paying taxes, tolls, and fees high enough to cover $50+ subsidy per fare so that people in low density semi-urban areas can ride underground too.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:27
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for the record, the last time the nyc subway companies built a line speculatively in a "low-density semi-urban area," a subway fare could buy you both a beer and a dinner to go with it and they still lost money hand over fist
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Dec 15, 2015 23:29
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we have a joke of a subway line up here, built as a gift from a former suburban mayor to his old constituents. it has ridership in line with our busiest bus routes. the per fare subsidy for the line is ~$8, or more than double the actual fare i.e. the TTC loses $8 every time someone takes it
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Dec 15, 2015 23:31
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and well soon have another courtesy of our most recently former mayor & the spineless council who was too chicken to remind him that he couldn't unilaterally make change to the transit deal
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Dec 15, 2015 23:38
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Chris Knight posted:and well soon have another courtesy of our most recently former mayor & the spineless council who was too chicken to remind him that he couldn't unilaterally make change to the transit deal *actually* our former mayor had nothing to do with that one. he supported it, but it's not his project either. the trans scarberian railway is thanks entirely to a vote buying exercise on the part of the provincial Liberals during the by-election. long after it was dead an burried the first time, they started talking about how they'd pitch in to fund it, and got then TTC chair Karen Stintz to float it around council. that led to the grudge-match debate that ended in it tentatively being approved (but not actually planned or funded). it's still in that state today, it it likely will be long after the wheels fall off the SRT it's meant to replace
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Dec 15, 2015 23:45
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Grandmaster.flv posted:they do this already gently caress yes
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Dec 15, 2015 23:52
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there is usually at least 1 hot chick on the bud/train to leer at so that is good.. imo
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Dec 15, 2015 23:54
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You can get around Boston fine walking and riding the t. Maybe live in better cities?
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Dec 15, 2015 23:57
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Shaggar posted:You can get around Boston fine walking and riding the t. Maybe live in better cities? go ahead
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Dec 15, 2015 23:59
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Shaggar posted:I once went to a big city. The three places I went to were all on the train. So all places must be right on the train in big cities.
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Dec 16, 2015 00:04
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also, boston is loving tiny. of course you could get around it just fine by walking, you could walk across it in like two hours tops
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Dec 16, 2015 00:06
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people will take transit/cabs/uber pathetically short distances in sf it's like just walk some damnit a mile only takes 20 minutes and the city is tiny
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Dec 16, 2015 00:22
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Chicago has a well built elevated/subway system but Chicago is huge geographically and the hub-and-spoke design leaves a lot of the city unserved and depending heavily on buses there's been a lot of talk on the behalf of the Active Transportation Alliance and similar lobbying groups trying to link some stuff north/south including a line from MDW to ORD but I think that's p. much not going to happen, especially with a republican in the governor's mansion and rahm busy justifying the police emptying two clips into an unarmed teenager
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Dec 16, 2015 00:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65ok77gPdXo the 300 metre long concreting pipeline is actually my dick !!!
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Dec 16, 2015 00:40
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infernal machines posted:also, boston is loving tiny. of course you could get around it just fine by walking, you could walk across it in like two hours tops qirex posted:people will take transit/cabs/uber pathetically short distances in sf it's like just walk some damnit a mile only takes 20 minutes and the city is tiny parents with children, old folks, and people with temporary disabilities fall through the slots on these sorts of plans the distances you can walk comfortably are not the only distances that matter. there are lots and lots and lots of people who are not going to take paratransit, but are not adequately served by the combination of walking + trains.
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Dec 16, 2015 01:01
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yeah, if my earlier network effect post didn't make it clear, it's very important to have transit stops within~250m of any given residence. that will always mandate the use of buses in anything but the highest density ubran core areas, but it's critical to making the system usable for the people who need it most. i was just making fun of shaggar for saying everything is in walking distance of the boston subway
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Dec 16, 2015 01:06
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is the new york transit museum worth going to? i'm going to new york city soon and it looked like something that might tickle the yospos part of my brain
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Dec 16, 2015 01:32
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The Leck posted:is the new york transit museum worth going to? i'm going to new york city soon and it looked like something that might tickle the yospos part of my brain if you like trains at all, yes, it is amazing. you don't have to be a window licking transit nerd to enjoy it, but it helps. the transit museum is an entire abandoned subway station, with many of the original fittings. the upper floor (mezzanine) is a normal museum with exhibits about buses and power supplies and signals and stuff the lower floor (track level) has one of just about every subway car ever used, in close to original condition, with period ads. like the 1920s cars have 1920s ads on the walls. it's really neato
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Dec 16, 2015 01:38
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someone should go to tokyo and come back and be like "gentlemen...BEHOLD" and show the new mandatory, fully funded mass transit plans for the largest 20 american cities. obama's troops can march into the city councils of each city and hold guns to their heads until it is done.
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Dec 16, 2015 01:45
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Beast of Bourbon posted:someone should go to tokyo and come back and be like "gentlemen...BEHOLD" and show the new mandatory, fully funded mass transit plans for the largest 20 american cities. tokyo's transit is funded by the national government.
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Dec 16, 2015 01:47
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if we're gonna steal something urban from japan let's steal their zoning laws instead http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html
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Dec 16, 2015 01:48
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Shaggar posted:in this mythological universe where a bus that doesn't suck exists then yes im sure people use buses instead of sitting in traffic. 
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Dec 16, 2015 01:49
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:tokyo's transit is funded by the national government. yea, and so was my mandatory sterilization and lobotomy. failing to see the relevance...
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Dec 16, 2015 01:49
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shaggar i recently went hiking in hong kong. they have a pretty good subway system that takes you a lot of places, but the trailhead to the mountain we were hiking is about 12 km or so from the nearest subway stop. there's a few people that live out there, and a public park with a family walking area as well as some pretty good mountain trails and a public campsite etc, but that place is literally never going to be serviced by a train. so we took one of these to get from / to the subway station  explain to me how this is bad? im willing to learn
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Dec 16, 2015 01:58
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infernal machines posted:yeah, if my earlier network effect post didn't make it clear, it's very important to have transit stops within~250m of any given residence. that will always mandate the use of buses in anything but the highest density ubran core areas, but it's critical to making the system usable for the people who need it most. everywhere worth going is
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Dec 16, 2015 01:59
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