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Batham posted:But nope, can't snipe Killgrave because we need to save this one girl while we let him murder 50 otherpeople, because JUSTICE Jessica let Killgrave go on for a drat long time, but at least she changes heart eventually. How many lives does [joker/luthor/kingpin] have to ruin before [batman/superman/daredevil] takes him out? I forsee Kingpin breaking out of a lot more stupid prisons.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:31
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So what is their plan with Defenders, exactly? I remember reading an article last year that said DD, JJ, IF and LC would have one season each, and then come together in a Defenders "mini-series". With DD season 2 coming in the spring, is that not the plan anymore? Not that I'm complaining. I just want to better understand the big picture. At the end of the day though, crossovers make me jizz my pants. I want more of them.
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Dec 15, 2015 05:41
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HIJK posted:Iron Fist casting stuff: http://ikwiz.com/watch.asp?id=19823&name=BREAKING+NEWS%3A+Marvel%27s+Netflix+IRON+FIST+Series+Character+Breakdowns+%7C+That+Hashtag+Show But does their first Asian dude have to be the Kung Fu guy?
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Dec 15, 2015 06:03
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It's the lesser of two evils. Do you make the first Asian guy a magic kung fu man or do you make the magic kung fu man a white guy? Personally I'm in the former camp, because I don't expect another opportunity for the next few years. Except Wong, I guess? It all depends on who auditions for the role, in the end. I maintain what I said during Daredevil that a young Johnny Yong-Bosch as a better actor would have been perfect. Raserys fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 06:53
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At this point I don't think Wong's even gonna be in the Dr. Strange movie. The whole cast's been announced and there's not a hint of him. If it's a choice between "Asian dude doing Asian-influenced thing in Asian-influenced setting" vs "Literally no Asian dudes, doing nothing, virtually nowhere in the entire MCU*" then yeah, the first choice is vastly preferable. It seems like some kinda complex unenviable Sophie's Choice on the surface but it's...really not. One of these options is clearly worse than the other. *I exaggerate for effect, but you get the point. We have May and "Daisy" on AoS but they were pretty much created wholesale for the show. Also, not dudes.
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Dec 15, 2015 07:07
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Raserys posted:It's the lesser of two evils. Do you make the first Asian guy a magic Personally I'm hoping for Indian, like from India. Like a rich American/British Indian. You miss out on a lot of the negatives from both sides, but you still get the positives. He's still Asian instead of just another white dude, but not "racist caricature Kung Fu Asian". But by making him both Indian & also culturally western European, you also get to keep the "Stranger in a Strange Land" origin in a way that feels authentic. I think it'd really work well. I don't know much about Indian actors (other than the dude that plays Ravi on iZombie), but I bet there are actually a bunch of really good people just dying to get work. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 08:09
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That would be neat, and it would fit the cultural melting pot aesthetic of New York really well.
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Dec 15, 2015 08:32
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What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? gently caress you. That's actually worse than just reprising American Ninja.
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Dec 15, 2015 10:07
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? lol
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Dec 15, 2015 10:29
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? Nah Southeast Asian would be pretty great too. Also, if Daniel Rand is American born then whether he's Indian, Caucasian, or Thai, you're still gonna have some element of the westerner being the savior of the "savages". I don't see how you get around that unless they just set the entire show in the Kunlun mountains in China itself, make all the actors Chinese, and make them speak Chinese with subtitles the entire time. (I also disagree that just because they're not portrayed as western & modern, the society of K'un Lun would automatically classify as "savages", though I understand how it evokes those kinds of stories and racist coding and why you bring it up)
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Dec 15, 2015 10:40
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? Do you wanna kung fu fight about it?
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Dec 15, 2015 11:33
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? 
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Dec 15, 2015 13:16
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XboxPants posted:I don't know much about Indian actors (other than the dude that plays Ravi on iZombie), but I bet there are actually a bunch of really good people just dying to get work. What about that Aziz Ansari? He seems pretty popular with the kids these days.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:09
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Batham posted:Not a bad show, but I liked Dare Devil a lot more. This show went a bit too many times into stupid-overdrive with insisting that the good thing is the right thing when it's clearly the wrong thing and going to gently caress things up. But it feels like the show just wants us to go along with it and eventually see that she's just flawed but right in the end! Sorry, but by the end she just felt like a retard to me. Will Simpson was way more level headed and had an actual good loving plan before he took the pills. Nobody said that focusing on Hope was "the right thing." Jessica isn't Daredevil, or Captain America. She doesn't get out of bed thinking "What is the best way to help the people of my city" and then spend the day doing that. She barely gets out of bed at all, and if she thought she had to spend the day saving an entire city she wouldn't; she'd reach for a bottle and pull the covers back up. But instead she thinks "Okay, I have to help this one person. I kind of owe her. It's just one case, I can do this, and maybe at the end of the day I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror." So she gets up and that's what she does. Which is a lot more realistic, when you think about it. You could spend every day figuring out how best to maximize your good deeds and help the most people through community service, but if you're like most people, you come out looking terrible when judged by this standard. If you're ahead of the curve then maybe you volunteer occasionally and give to some charities. And that probably includes some things like say Toys for Tots: well-intentioned and laudable enterprises that are by no means the optimal solution to minimizing human suffering; but you feel good about them, and that motivates you to do something better than you would otherwise be doing. That's humanity for you. Maybe we should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but that's for another show to explore (for instance, we have every other superhero show for that). McNerd fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 14:23
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? Well... that escalated quickly.
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Dec 15, 2015 14:33
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raditts posted:Well... that escalated quickly. He has a point in that most Goon suggestions for avoiding race controversy are kinda terrible. I remember people seriously suggesting Black Panther be part British too.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:14
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Make Daisy Johnson Iron Fist, then everyone is happy.
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Dec 15, 2015 17:42
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McNerd posted:Nobody said that focusing on Hope was "the right thing." Jessica isn't Daredevil, or Captain America. She doesn't get out of bed thinking "What is the best way to help the people of my city" and then spend the day doing that. She barely gets out of bed at all, and if she thought she had to spend the day saving an entire city she wouldn't; she'd reach for a bottle and pull the covers back up. But instead she thinks "Okay, I have to help this one person. I kind of owe her. It's just one case, I can do this, and maybe at the end of the day I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror." So she gets up and that's what she does. I think this is an excellent point about Jessica Jones. It's part of what made the show appealing to me. She's a very flawed superhero in a more realistic real world setting than what we see with Star City or Central City or Gotham.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:24
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Yeah, a lot of criticism levelled at JJ seems to be about how she doesn't fight the bad guy in the optimum way, totally ignoring the fact that JJ doesn't even consider fighting the bad guy to be one of her goals until halfway through the show.
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Dec 15, 2015 18:31
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A white Mandarin?
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Dec 15, 2015 19:05
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mycot posted:He has a point in that most Goon suggestions for avoiding race controversy are kinda terrible. I remember people seriously suggesting Black Panther be part British too. Idris Elba playing Black Panther would be good.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:23
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Idris Elba playing Black Panther would be good. Dude's already Heimdall.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:25
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I started watching Luther and it's not really what I expected it to be. They should have made the second episode the first, because the first episode was kind of stupid and the second was kind of awesome. Sorry, that's not MCU, I was thinking of Idris Elba. Anyway, they should definitely have an Asian play Iron Fist. They should also film it and Luke Cage in crappy 70's style film grain effects and have really cheesy soundtracks of loud, brassy kung fu tunes and funky soul music respectively.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:27
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Snak posted:Yeah, a lot of criticism levelled at JJ seems to be about how she doesn't fight the bad guy in the optimum way, totally ignoring the fact that JJ doesn't even consider fighting the bad guy to be one of her goals until halfway through the show. Wrong, she explicitly states she doesn't want to kill him yet because this one magic person almost from the start.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:33
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broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? First time I've seen American Ninja used in a negative context. What the hell is next? Is nothing sacred? I say we cast Michael Dudikoff in a supporting role of some kind, as a mea culpa.
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Dec 15, 2015 19:49
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Batham posted:Wrong, she explicitly states she doesn't want to kill him yet because this one magic person almost from the start. The one magic person named Hope. Probably only because Redemption would have been a weird name.
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Dec 15, 2015 20:22
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Snak posted:Yeah, a lot of criticism levelled at JJ seems to be about how she doesn't fight the bad guy in the optimum way, totally ignoring the fact that JJ doesn't even consider fighting the bad guy to be one of her goals until halfway through the show. Batham posted:Wrong, she explicitly states she doesn't want to kill him yet because this one magic person almost from the start. Right, exactly. Because as Snak said, fighting him is not her goal. Helping Hope is her goal, so she doesn't want to kill him. Where's the contradiction?
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Dec 15, 2015 20:32
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McNerd posted:Right, exactly. Because as Snak said, fighting him is not her goal. Helping Hope is her goal, so she doesn't want to kill him. Where's the contradiction? Yet and not imply 2 different things.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:05
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At the beginning of the show, before Hope's parents hire Jessica, Jessica is not planning to do anything at all about Kilgrave. She is avoiding him, hiding from him and thinks the best way to keep people safe from him is also for them to avoid drawing his attention. When Jessica recognizes that Hope is another victim of Kilgrave, she wants to save her. She still doesn't want to confront Kilgrave at all. It's Trish who throws down the gauntlet.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:26
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Snak posted:At the beginning of the show, before Hope's parents hire Jessica, Jessica is not planning to do anything at all about Kilgrave. She is avoiding him, hiding from him and thinks the best way to keep people safe from him is also for them to avoid drawing his attention. When Jessica recognizes that Hope is another victim of Kilgrave, she wants to save her. She still doesn't want to confront Kilgrave at all. It's Trish who throws down the gauntlet. Well, Jessica was under the impression that Kilgrave was dead after getting hit by that bus and part of her investigation is figuring out that he survived. She was suspicious but trying not to give in to paranoia. Encountering Hope was her first confirmation that Kilgrave was still alive. And then at the end of the same episode she decides to go back and help Hope, which the narration points out with the "you can avoid it or you can deal with it." Jessica wants to avoid a direct confrontation with Kilgrave because she knows how disastrous that is. She's not actively running from Kilgrave though. She wants him under control and lassoed.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:31
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HIJK posted:Well, Jessica was under the impression that Kilgrave was dead after getting hit by that bus and part of her investigation is figuring out that he survived. She was suspicious but trying not to give in to paranoia. Encountering Hope was her first confirmation that Kilgrave was still alive. And then at the end of the same episode she decides to go back and help Hope, which the narration points out with the "you can avoid it or you can deal with it." Yeah I wouldn't say she's running, and I agree that she's trying to avoid a direct confrontation. My point is though, that a lot of people seem to be view the story as "jessica finds out that Kilgrave is still alive and then tries all the worst ways to stop him before eventually agreeing that killing him is the only way" when in fact the story is much more like "Jessica finds out that Kilgrave is alive by encountering one of his victims, and tries to help her while keeping herself and her friends safe." One of the steps in helping his victims involves confronting and capturing Kilgrave, so she does that. It doesn't work out, and it becomes clear that he will continue to victimize people way faster than she can keep people safe. She then accepts that confronting and eliminating the source is what she needs to do. This somewhat mirrors the process of bringing your abuser to justice. When someone has been abused, they often want to focus on their own poo poo and not go out and confront their abuser. They want it to just be done and in the past. When Jessica decides to kill Kilgrave, it's when she's no longer allowing herself to be afraid of him.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:42
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HIJK posted:Iron Fist casting stuff: http://ikwiz.com/watch.asp?id=19823&name=BREAKING+NEWS%3A+Marvel%27s+Netflix+IRON+FIST+Series+Character+Breakdowns+%7C+That+Hashtag+Show I know the website is speculating on this being a secret casting call for the villain, but I'm going to pretend it's actually a secret casting call for Orson Randal. broken clock opsec posted:What, southeast Asians still not good enough for the white man? Gotta mix it up a little with the British white man too because God forbid we get somebody who's not coded as lily white European savior of savages right? gently caress it, Danny Rand is 100% Pueblo and K'un-Lun appears in the Alaskan Range of mountains. Each of the 7 Heavenly Cities now are an amalgam of a single continent's cultures instead of being 7 different versions of vague Asia. Gyges fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 23:49
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Those of you who think you just snipe Kilgrave, how does that work as a show? Also, let's not ignore the thematic reasons why JJ just doesn't let The Big Strong Man snipe her nemesis in episode four, like the way Hope mirrors her own plight, how she can save Hope when she couldn't save herself, how no one believes Hope or her (which closely resembles the way society won't believe abuse victims). The relastionship, narratively, symbolically and thematically, between Jessica and Kilgrave is the strongest part of the show, but apparently some people think that tactical realism is job number one. Do y'all think the Iliad is bullshit because Achilles didn't wear armor on his heel at all times? zoux fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:06
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zoux posted:Those of you who think you just snipe Kilgrave, how does that work as a show? Makes the show about 4 episodes long for one.  zoux posted:Also, let's not ignore the thematic reasons why JJ just doesn't let The Big Strong Man snipe her nemesis in episode four, like the way Hope mirrors her own plight, how she can save Hope when she couldn't save herself, how no one believes Hope or her (which closely resembles the way society won't believe abuse victims). The relastionship, narratively, symbolically and thematically, between Jessica and Kilgrave is the strongest part of the show, but apparently some people think that tactical realism is job number one. Do y'all think the Iliad is bullshit because Achilles didn't wear armor on his heel at all times? I mean there is a difference between tactilol realism and not being loving retarded. She knows how much damage Kilgrave can do. She has seen some of the lives he has ruined thanks to the support group. Everytime he escaped was just painful because of her futile effort to capture him again while trying to get his confession / win for Hope. You would think that after the first few escapes she would change her mind, but nope. Thank god Hope was the smartest person on the show and did what needed to be done. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:11
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There are real life people who wield huge amounts of power that they use only for personal gain and destroy the lives of others. Everyone who says that Jessica Jones was foolish not to murder Kilgrave should be out committing murders of real life terrible people if it's so much the right thing to do. That's how stupid this loving logic is. That's not how you solve problems in a society.
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Dec 16, 2015 02:46
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Snak posted:There are real life people who wield huge amounts of power that they use only for personal gain and destroy the lives of others. Everyone who says that Jessica Jones was foolish not to murder Kilgrave should be out committing murders of real life terrible people if it's so much the right thing to do. That's how stupid this loving logic is. That's not how you solve problems in a society. But... that's what she wound up doing in the end anyway. So I guess if there's a message, it's "try to solve your problems by using the system until that inevitably fails catastrophically, then resort to murder." Seriously though, I don't think it's wrong to criticize the plot, it did really feel like Kilgrave had some serious plot armor and things got really stupid at points to work around that. Are we still doing spoiler tags at this point? I'll spoiler tag if I need to. raditts fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 02:50
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She wasn't trying to kill him until Hope died.
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Dec 16, 2015 02:59
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zoux posted:Those of you who think you just snipe Kilgrave, how does that work as a show? I mean they managed to stretch 10 episodes of material to 13 so it wouldn't be impossible.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:01
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At the end Kilgrave had dozens of people beating each other to death and was abducting Jessica's foster sister into a life of sex slavery so she acting in the direct defense of others, even then. It's not wrong to criticize, it's just that the criticisms are bad.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:02
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I did feel like, after a certain point, enough people had been brainwashed and could remember being brainwashed and could corroborate each other being brainwashed that the whole "We need to capture him and get evidence!!!" plot started to feel a bit thin. I mean, sure, in real life that kind of poo poo wouldn't fly, but we're talking about a world where a literal god came down and brainwashed a bunch of people into opening a portal for an alien army to invade through.
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Dec 16, 2015 03:02
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