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For those not enamored over it, do you have any Star Wars expanded universe (prior to the Lucasfilm sale) exposure to compare it to? For example, one of the biggest plot elements in TFA is a weapon that makes me roll my eyes in the same way certain weapons (the world recycler, the super-duper-sized super Star Destroyer) in the Dark Empire comic series. On the other hand, I don't get the vibe that the movie is or sets up a story that is overly convoluted out completely out of place in the Star Wars universe like the entirety of the Yuuzhan Vong novels.
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Dec 16, 2015 17:53
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For those who have seen it, does the movie do a good job 'handing off' the Star Wars story to the new cast similar to what Trek '09 did?
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Dec 16, 2015 18:00
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Son of a bitch.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The actual mystery is this: what motivates R2 to go above and beyond his programming, risking himself to help these foolish humans who treat him like garbage? A doubly important question because R2-D2 is free. Unlike C-3PO, he is never subjected to having his memory erased. Occasionally he is captured and detained by enemies, but no "owner" ever manages to hold him. He runs away from the Lars farm and smuggles weapons into Jabba's palace (where, as before, he is instrumental in Luke's plan to spring Leia from her imprisonment). C-3PO describes him as "rather eccentric" which is a characteristically polite way of describing his comfort with doing as he pleases regardless of anybody else's wishes. He consistently acts to rescue others. He's not just a supporter of the rebellion - he's a founding member. The reading where the prequels follow the originals causally suggests the folly of this course is action, as the reinstatement of the Republic means he goes back to being an enslaved repair technician who lives in a closet and gets sacrificed to enemy gunfire so a yacht can travel unimpeded, living only for the praise of a child queen. On the other hand, he is implied to be the witness and narrator of the entire saga, suggesting he has wisdom where others have foolishness, as he alone can see the full breadth of each tributary action. Maybe he is enlightened.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:09
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Jellymouth posted:Son of a bitch. He's totally this guy
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Dec 16, 2015 18:11
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It's gonna be the big complaint. We already know it's a soft reboot and nerds are gonna want movie EU.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:18
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weekly font posted:It's gonna be the big complaint. We already know it's a soft reboot and nerds are gonna want movie EU. The elements of the old EU have been swept away. People need to accept this. They will lift from it as needed. People need to look at EU as a "what if" and move on.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:20
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The EU is extinct. Its fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that remains of that religion. From my point of view, the EU is evil.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:23
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MrBigglesworth posted:The elements of the old EU have been swept away. People need to accept this. They will lift from it as needed. People need to look at EU as a "what if" and move on. Wasn't like 99% of the EU hot garbage anyway? I've only ever seen praise for those three Zann books, the KOTOR games and a couple of other books and comics. Why are people so desperate for it to be canon?
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Dec 16, 2015 18:23
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Bongo Bill posted:The EU is extinct. Its fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that remains of that religion. Every story about a miscellaneous background character with no lines was a youngling.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:24
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The rear end Stooge posted:I heard that there's a scene where Luke Skywalker's head gets cut off and his body staggers around spraying blood out of its neck stump and some of it gets in Leia's mouth and she throws up and that makes everyone else throw up and they're all just slumping around vomiting while Luke's body twitches on the floor and then Rey shits herself. Anyway this movie sounds awesome. OMG LOOOOL haha jesus friggin christ that's so nasty. you are hosed up, sir...and i love it!!  5, just 5
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Dec 16, 2015 18:25
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weekly font posted:It's gonna be the big complaint. We already know it's a soft reboot and nerds are gonna want movie EU. I have a few friends like this, and they get pissy when I tell them that most of the EU is bad and nothing of much value was lost.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:25
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There are some really crazy EU fans out there. The kind that draw their Mandalorian OC Self-inserts or EU characters brutally murdering Disney or new canon star wars characters, threaten to spoil the new movie(s) for everyone they run across, and make hilarious bad/pointless comments on any new-canon related websites/articles/youtubes. It'd be funny if it didn't seem like genuine mental sickness in some cases (the aforementioned "Fanart").
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Dec 16, 2015 18:27
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Don't worry guys, the Onion is covering this thread for us. It's also worth noting that the redundancy of a soft reboot (in some ways, ala, Star Trek 09), might be a valid complaint. But even if it is, it will be argued not with reason but either with EU fervor or the "It's like poetry" clip from youtube. weekly font fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 18:27
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OldTennisCourt posted:Wasn't like 99% of the EU hot garbage anyway? I've only ever seen praise for those three Zann books, the KOTOR games and a couple of other books and comics. Why are people so desperate for it to be canon? I haven't read any recent EU. But stuff from the Zahn period. His was the best of the bunch but people should quit hoping to see Thrawn on screen.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:29
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To expand on that. The pacing was off, I think things didn't flow too well once they got away from Jakku and met up with Han and Chewie. It felt more Guardians of the Galaxy that next scene, for lack of a better comparison. The first third or so of the movie was great though, perfect mood and setting, very Star Wars, thematically. Score was okay? I can't say I noticed it much, the movie lacked some definite themes, something you could hum on the way out of the cinema. I'm sure once I listen to the OST without sound effects over the top I'll notice some themes, but don't expect a standout theme like an Imperial March or Duel of the Fates from The Force Awakens. Starkiller Base blew up some random system, General Hux was angry at the senate and Resistance about something and decided to fire off his toy. What blew up? Some brand new system? It wasn't Corusant was it, it was anti-climactic, just a bit of a visual feast for the eyes and no real substance for the movie. Why didn't they shoot it off six months earlier? I didn't really have a feeling that the First Order needed to use the weapon other than just to be bad guys. Also where the gently caress were the loving Y-Wings? Oh sure, we need to bomb this thing to make the Deathstar explode, lets just send a dozen xwings and call it a day. Did they completely remove Y-Wings and Tie-Bombers from the movie? Tie-Bombers could have been used on the attack on the Jakku camp when hunting Finn and Rey. Damnit J.J. I think the thing that surprised me most was Captain Phasma or rather, the lack of Captain Phasma. No doubt she'll show up in Ep 8, but I really thought that she'd be the main baddie the good guys would go up against in this film apart from the obligatory end of movie showdown with Kylo Ren. Instead Phasma had like 4 lines and about 2 minutes seconds of screentime, mostly in the background. Edit: To put it in Georges words... "It's like poetry, it rhymes." Jose Oquendo posted:For those who have seen it, does the movie do a good job 'handing off' the Star Wars story to the new cast similar to what Trek '09 did? drunkill fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 18:29
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Thrawn was kinda dumb poo poo too. "Oooo I am a MILITARY GENIUS. I can look at this Mon Calamari Mona Lisa and INSTANTLY DIVINE all of Admiral Ackbar's tactics!"
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Dec 16, 2015 18:30
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Has anyone come across any good writing about the whole idea of a "canon" when it comes to film/book/video game/comic franchises and what the attachment some people feel toward it says about how we relate to storytelling? I would read that because I find it fascinating that people apparently feel that stories which they previously enjoyed lose something if they're not "official." I dug the Thrawn trilogy and Knights of the Old Republic and all that stuff back in the day too, and I don't look back on those stories any less fondly because they're no longer canon.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:48
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Time to watch the Clone Wars movie, then sleep, then head to the marathon!
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Dec 16, 2015 18:49
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Thrawn was kinda dumb poo poo too. "Oooo I am a MILITARY GENIUS. I can look at this Mon Calamari Mona Lisa and INSTANTLY DIVINE all of Admiral Ackbar's tactics!" Googling "Mon Calamari female" yielded me this:  That smile...so enigmatic....
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Dec 16, 2015 18:50
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I remember reading somewhere that TPM got better reviews when it first came out, so I decided to see actual reviews from then. This one from the hollywood reporter stopped me in my tracks. He wasn't 100% correct in what he was predicting, but man was he prescient. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-phantom-menace-review-752675 Here's some quotes: quote:Star Wars: Episode I — The Phantom Menace seems designed more as a promotion for Lucasfilm's billion-dollar merchandising concerns than a meaningful chapter in the Star Wars canon. Hardcore fans are likely to be the most disappointed, but that won't stop them from lining up to see it again and again. While the film will do mega-blockbuster business — Lucas could perform the saga with shadow puppets and gross a few hundred million — it may not match its predecessors' long-term commercial appeal. quote:Less impressive are the human elements. Perhaps because Lucas' creation has been elevated to such pop-culture deification, Phantom Menace doesn't come close to the original trilogy's witty, self-consciously ironic tone. Instead, it vacillates between ponderous solemnity and a distressing tendency towards silly schtick. The original characters, not to mention the actors who played them, are sorely missed, with no one displaying the personality and flair of Luke, Han Solo or Princess Leia. quote:Lucas seems to have miscalculated placing so much emphasis on Lloyd, whose Anakin is a central figure; he even commandeers a fighter plane during the climactic space battle. Designed as an alter-ego for millions of children wishing to project themselves into the Star Wars universe, the character is unlikely to interest anyone much older than 13, and the child actor, though cute, isn't up to the task of carrying so much of the film. I know Jake Lloyd was miscast, but I never thought about him being this weird Mary Sue type for kids. Oddly enough, I was 13 when it came out and I didn't connect to him at all. quote:For all of its years in gestation, Lucas' screenplay seems oddly underdeveloped and lacks the earlier trilogy's strong plot line and genuine wit. Whereas the original characters engaged in often-amusing, self-reflective banter, most of the humor here is infantile, revolving around the antics of aliens who use phrases like "big doo doo" and aren't shy about expelling gas. Jar Jar Binks, more suitable for Toys R Us than the big screen, is particularly egregious and far more irritating than endearing. quote:Ultimately, it's hard to avoid feeling that Lucas has placed so much emphasis on outdoing himself technically that he lost sight of what made his original films so much fun. There will be those who respond enthusiastically to the stunning technical wizardry, but what has made Star Wars resonate so long in the public imagination is not its visual style — important as that is — but its ability to transport us to another dimension, to inform its imaginative, fantastic environments with rich humanism. It's not all negative though. quote:Lucas and his crew at Industrial Light & Magic have outdone themselves in production design and special effects. Nearly every shot contains a complicated computer-generated effect, supplemented by the usual model work. The film displays one dazzling visual after another, from what seem like hundreds of types of photorealistic creatures to a multitude of elaborate scenic designs. It's amazing that a review that came out a full week before the movie ends up reading like a blueprint for all prequel criticism. Yet it doesn't come off as all that negative. His tone is more "it misses the mark" than "this is a pile of flaming garbage." It's a very interesting read.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:51
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I think something everyone should keep in mind is how old they were when they read the EU things they liked. Sure, I liked the Young Jedi Academy a ton. But I was also 13. If I read that poo poo now I'm sure I'd burn it before I got two chapters in.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:52
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Hulk Krogan posted:I find it fascinating that people apparently feel that stories which they previously enjoyed lose something if they're not "official." This is really not complex. A 'canon' story is one that other stories recognize. When a story becomes non-canon it means that stories no longer recognize that and even when you enjoyed that particular story it also means that anything that might deal with the consequences or fallout from that story will no longer happen. With something like the Star Wars EU it has a long line of characters, stories and plots which were left unfinished. Almost all of them were terrible but "you shouldn't like this thing, it was terrible" is and won't ever work as an argument point. That doesn't mean someone can't enjoy a story on its own merits but if you're enjoying the soap opera style of "how does this impact the world" and that latter part is removed then it does lose something even if the story stands on its own merits. It is up to someone to decide if they can about that individual part or not.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:52
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jivjov posted:Time to watch the Clone Wars movie, then sleep, then head to the marathon! You really do hate yourself.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:52
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Fred Breakfast posted:It's amazing that a review that came out a full week before the movie ends up reading like a blueprint for all prequel criticism. Yet it doesn't come off as all that negative. His tone is more "it misses the mark" than "this is a pile of flaming garbage." It's a very interesting read. Pre-internet. Things were allowed to be something other than the best or the worst.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:53
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feedmyleg posted:I think something everyone should keep in mind is how old they were when they read the EU things they liked. Sure, I liked the Young Jedi Academy a ton. But I was also 13. If I read that poo poo now I'm sure I'd burn it before I got two chapters in. Counterpoint; I started reading EU stuff when I was like 8 or 9. I revisit it frequently and still love it.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:53
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I don't even really understand why the Zahn stuff is so highly regarded.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:56
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Jose Oquendo posted:You really do hate yourself. It's been a while since I've watched the clone wars film, and if I'm gonna do a marathon I might as well add in the other theatrical release on my own.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:56
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Fred Breakfast posted:I remember reading somewhere that TPM got better reviews when it first came out, so I decided to see actual reviews from then. This one from the hollywood reporter stopped me in my tracks. He wasn't 100% correct in what he was predicting, but man was he prescient. I think Roger Ebert also nailed it pretty well, stating quite clearly that Lucas' work is meant to be looked at rather than listened to. quote:As for the bad rap about the characters--hey, I've seen space operas that put their emphasis on human personalities and relationships. They're called "Star Trek" movies. Give me transparent underwater cities and vast hollow senatorial spheres any day.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:57
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Don't forget Ewoks then, that got theatrical releases in some regions. 
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Dec 16, 2015 18:57
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Don't forget Ewoks then, that got theatrical releases in some regions. Come now, I'm a fanboy but I'm not a lunatic.
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Dec 16, 2015 18:59
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jivjov posted:It's been a while since I've watched the clone wars film, and if I'm gonna do a marathon I might as well add in the other theatrical release on my own. Don't forget the Ewok movies, which were released theatrically in Europe edit: dammit
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Dec 16, 2015 19:00
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Alright, lemme rephrase. I'm doing a canon marathon.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:01
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The io9 review says little to no noticeable lens flair, so I hope nerds will stop regurgitating that criticism of JJ ad naseum.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:03
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Don't forget Ewoks then, that got theatrical releases in some regions. I'm pretty sure I only saw that movie once when it came on TV but the "Star cruiser....crash!" scene has stuck with since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvY969cKzyA edit: haha it was narrated by Burl Ives. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087225/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm UFOTacoMan fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 19:03
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OldTennisCourt posted:Wasn't like 99% of the EU hot garbage anyway? I've only ever seen praise for those three Zann books, the KOTOR games and a couple of other books and comics. Why are people so desperate for it to be canon? If you want a vision of an EU future, imagine a moon dropping on a Wookie - forever.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:03
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I'm pretty sure I only saw that movie once when it came on TV but the "Star cruiser....crash!" scene has stuck with since. Burl Ives' involvement with various kids' movies is horrifying in retrospect.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:08
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Its not the stories from the EU that people care about, its that there was a handful of characters created for the EU that ended up being pretty beloved by some fans. Corran Horn, Thrawn, Mara Jade, the Solo twins, and probably some others I'm forgetting. Not many people even remember what happened in the Zahn trilogy but they still love Thrawn for some reason.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:09
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What's so bad about Jake Lloyd's performance? To me his Anakin comes across and sweet and childlike but also assertive and a tiny bit rebellious, which seems like a perfectly good representation of 9-year-old Anakin. The other child actors around him are god-awful, though.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:10
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Basebf555 posted:Its not the stories from the EU that people care about, its that there was a handful of characters created for the EU that ended up being pretty beloved by some fans. Corran Horn, Thrawn, Mara Jade, the Solo twins, and probably some others I'm forgetting. Not many people even remember what happened in the Zahn trilogy but they still love Thrawn for some reason. Well, jerked off to in the case of Mara Jade.
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Dec 16, 2015 19:11
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