Star Trek: This one is about drinkin' kanar with Damar and Gull Dukat

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Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

What the gently caress is "the culture"?

# ? Dec 16, 2015 10:41

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# ? May 15, 2024 18:49

Freemason Rush Week: Apr 22, 2006

p sure it's the guys who edit memory alpha

# ? Dec 16, 2015 10:54

Drunken Baker: Feb 3, 2015; VODKA STYLE DRINK

poor life choice posted:

It would have been fantastic if, upon traveling back in time, Michael Dorn was wearing original series Klingon makeup with nobody remarking about the difference.

Hahah that cracked me up in work.

# ? Dec 16, 2015 11:04

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Kitchner posted:

What the gently caress is "the culture"?

A bunch of really good scifi books written by a scifi writer who was also a pretty respected literary writer and they're all really good

# ? Dec 16, 2015 11:06

egon_beeblebrox: Mar 1, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

counterfeitsaint posted:

This kind of poo poo is inevitable when you decide to make a prequel. This is why prequel are universally garbage.

The prequel part of Godfather II was better than the sequel part.

# ? Dec 16, 2015 14:17

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

MikeJF posted:

A bunch of really good scifi books written by a scifi writer who was also a pretty respected literary writer and they're all really good

Is that the series that begins with a man locked in a basement chamber while the ruling class of elderly gorge themselves and fill the lower chamber with poo poo as a method of execution in their gerontocracy?

If so, I can see its appeal as goon catnip.

# ? Dec 16, 2015 14:46

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

counterfeitsaint posted:

This kind of poo poo is inevitable when you decide to make a prequel. This is why prequel are universally garbage.

This kind of poo poo is inevitable when your writing panders to grown-up babies who are more concerned with made-up "universe building" than compelling storytelling.

# ? Dec 16, 2015 20:47

Freemason Rush Week: Apr 22, 2006

You can have both, though! Some of my favorite Enterprise episodes are the ones about how the UFP came into existence. Granted, at least 50% of that is Shran, but it was also interesting to see the history get fleshed out.

The Klingon forehead ridges stuff wasn't just badly written, it was also aimed at answering a question that no one really cared about. Besides, Worf already gave the best possible answer. Why keep digging when you've already struck dilithium?

# ? Dec 16, 2015 21:07

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

Yeah, that's true, I guess it just takes a skilled writer to make that work. I'm not against a nice tidy "canon," but if the writers are ever at a crossroads between that and a more interesting canon-violating idea, I'd rather go with the latter personally.

I think I'm in the minority of people that liked Enterprise better when it was just being its own show rather than trying to connect with the later series. I thought the temporal cold war was alright, I thought the Suliban were cool, I thought the Xindi arc had its moments. I had a lot of fun with season four, too, but I was kind of sad to see them giving up on some of their original premises rather than improving on them.

Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 16, 2015

# ? Dec 16, 2015 21:26

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

E: double-post thing

# ? Dec 16, 2015 21:48

Hard Clumping: Mar 19, 2008; Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS

Snatch Duster posted:

It depends a lot on who is on the offensive, the interpretation of their technology, and which era we are talking about.

The Galactic Empire spanned a large portion of their Galaxy with hundreds of thousands of worlds, not counting the rebel worlds, while the Federation is split between two quadrants of the Milky Way controlling less than a single quadrant with only 150 planets.

Going over some technological fields we can see which one is the more advanced in each area:

1) Artificial Intelligence

Star Trek, as of the 24th century, has only one highly advanced android in existence Data. They are still grappling with the issues of robot intelligence/sentience as of the TNG. On the other hand, they have highly advanced AIs which run most of their ships systems from the bridge and main engineering. They also have the ability to weaponize nanytes.

Star Wars has had robots for various functions, from repairs, to mining/hard labor, to assassinations and bounty hunting, for thousands of years. Their robots are largely sentient, have been for thousands of years, and they have had past terminator-style conflicts with their robots according to the expanded universe. Despite having very advanced robotics, the ship systems in Star Wars are manually operated. You can see people assigned at every turret shooting manually in Episode III, and Episode IV on the Death Star. Nanytes do seem to be available in the Star Wars expanded universe as well.

My bets are on Star Wars robotics

2) Shields:
Star Trek uses energy shields which operate on a particular modulation. They are effective against both kinetic and energy damage, but if an enemy ship knows the modulation they can bypass the shields. As shields weaken the likelihood of weapon fire penetrating them increases.

Star Wars shields seem to be a bit of a mystery, and effective ones are certainly are not portable. In episodes IV-VI, and III, fighters seemed to be able to fly right up to capital class ships and take out their systems. The shield generator for the Death Star, which did repel fighters and other ships, was emplaced on the surface of a planet. During the battle of Endor the Imperial Ships, under orders not to fire, seemed helpless against rebel fighters and capital ships who destroyed significant numbers of their ships, including their flag ship. The shield generators seemed to somehow be outside the shield or something because a wing of fighters were able to fly right up to the shields and destroy them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_hGOFukMQ

Moreover in episode V their shields seemed utterly ineffective against asteroids, meaning they might not be able to stop kinetic damage in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nZx5BFwPCI

Of course it may also be that shields in Star Wars, which they always call "Deflector Shields" are not the same as shields in the Star Trek sense, and in fact, can only attempt to deflect damage. The shields on Star Wars fighters seem even more useless, as every shot seems to always penetrate them, even energy blasts. In many space engagements rebel and imperial fighters are taken out in one hit.
My bets are on 100% on Star Trek in a battle of shields.

3) Size
Capital ships in Star Wars are much larger than most alpha quadrant ships. An Imperial Star Destroyer has a minimum crew of over 5,000 which is twice as high as the Enterprise's compliment counting civilian passengers.
This does create an interesting situation however in regards to maneuverability. A Star Trek ship can successfully meneuver through an asteroid belt, while a Star Wars capital ship has much more problems.

4) Firepower
One source Star Wars vs Star Trek in Five Minutes claims Star Wars firepower is so much more powerful that even the Slave 1 could easily destroy the enterprise D. The source claims even an Acclamator cruiser has 300 million GW of firepower, while the enterprise has 3.6 gigawatts. This number seems to be contested by Star Trek canon sources which put the firepower of the Enterprise's phaser arrays at 50,000 terawatts or 50,000,000 gigawatts. It is still less firepower, but not millions of times less.

The defiant, a much smaller Federation ship than the Enterprise, built specifically for war, has over 70,000 terawatts of firepower or 70,000,000 gigawatts Defiant Class - Specs

Again though, Star Wars ships are many times larger than Star Trek ships in the first place.

In terms of sheer firepower, not taking anything else into effect, Star Wars still outguns the Federation 6 to 1 against the Enterprise, and 4 to 1 against the Defiant, but not so handedly as some sources claim.

5) Accuracy

In Star Wars capital ships seem to be very inaccurate. Fighters are able to fly right up to them in every movie and game and inflict massive damage. They can only be countered by other fighters, or in some games, by smaller turrets. Even on the ground their accuracy for their blasters seems very inaccurate compared to Star Trek phasers, or even modern kinetic weaponry we use in real life.

In Star Trek fighters don't even exist anymore except for pilot training. A Federation ship can easily hit a smaller fighter with precision accuracy. Runabout shuttles (in DS9) do have fairly good firepower and can do damage to a bigger ship but they still are mostly only used for research and transportation. The ships seem to hit with very high accuracy. Misses are less common than hits, while in a typical Star Wars battle stray shots are constantly flying everywhere.

I would place my bets on Star Trek over Star Wars any day for accuracy.

6) Sensors

As another answer noted, in Star Wars the Imperials could not detect droids in an "unmanned" escape pod, that did not turn out to be so unmanned, in Episode IV. A team of Imperial technicians doing a sensor sweep also failed to detect Luke, Obi Wan, Han Solo, and Chewbacca, and again two droids, hiding inside the Millennium Falcon's floorboards. In Episode V Imperial Tie Bombers dropped spatial charges into asteroids in an attempt at locating the millennium falcon through echo-location, Hunt for Red October style. After that incident in Episode V, the Millennium Falcon successfully hid atop an Imperial Star Destroyer for half a day while the fleet continued searching for them in vain.

In Star Trek the sensors, even on a shuttle craft, can tell the molecular makeup of an uncloaked object on the ground through kilometers of atmosphere. Ships go through massive efforts to mask sensors, and some civilizations have developed cloaking technology. Star Trek wins handedly in sensors. A handheld tricorder can probably do a better job than the sensors on a Star Destroyer. Sensors can usually detect exactly how many lifeforms are aboard an enemy ship, unless their shields are up or they are jamming the sensors in some other way.

7) Maneuverability:

Star Wars fighters seem to be highly maneuverable, but their capital ships are very un-maneuverable. Ships like the Millennium Falcon get away from Star Destroyers inaccurate blasts all the time. In Star Wars games, and from what we can see a little bit of on screen, their corvette class ships 150 m long, seem to be very good at flying in a straight line, outrunning capital class ships, but not so good at turning.

In Star Wars big ships are much more maneuverable than Star Wars ships, but I would imagine their fighters could outmaneuver a shuttlecraft fairly easily. Then again however, shuttles have working shields. The Defiant, 170.68 m long, seems much more adept at turning than a corvette class ship.

I cannot decide who would win here. It depends a lot on the ship in question. I would say Federation ships would outperform most Imperial ships, but not at the fighter level. Then again however, shuttles have working shields while Tie Fighters do not.

8) Faster than Light Travel:

In Star Wars ships can travel at Hyperspeed through hyperspace across the galaxy, in a matter of months or weeks (as evident from the Rebel Alliance moving from Yavin IV to Hoth in less than a year). They make mention of "Hyperspace routes" a lot, and ships seem to follow a path. They rely on Hyperspace Beacons to determine their exact location see Hyperspace beacon. It is unclear exactly how hyperspace works, and if it would be utilizable outside of their plotted Hyperspace Routes. In Star Wars RTS games such as Empire at War, one may only travel from one planet to a more distant one if there is a hyperspace route. They travel to neighboring systems much more slowly than travel along a designated route. They also have technological drawbacks, as people in Star Wars do not know exactly how hyperspace works because they reverse engineered the technology from the Rakata see Hyperspace

In Star Trek they use a warp field to travel through subspace. It warps space around the vessels distorting the space around the ship and allowing the ship to accelerate faster than light through subspace. Ships traveling at warp are able to fire at other ships traveling faster than light and even maneuver slightly. This is however, much slower than in Star Wars. It takes 70 years to go from the corner of the Delta Quadrant back to the Alpha quadrant. Some civilizations such as the Borg, can travel from one end of the Galaxy to the other using Transwarp conduits, but they lost this capability (at least in the Delta Quadrant) at the end of Voyager. It takes 1 year for a Federation ship to travel 1,000 light years.

Star Wars wins handedly. Their ships' propulsion capabilities are much faster than Star Trek's warp travel. At the same time they don't even understand how to travel faster than light. They reverse-engineered the technology. It is not certain if Hyperspace corridors could be established in a different galaxy, and it is unclear if those corridors could not be easily exploited by a Star Trek civilization.

9) Size of their civilizations+politics

The Empire in Star Wars spans most of its Galaxy at the time of 0ABY. Their are planets outside of its immediate control, but most are vassal states who allow Imperial ships to travel freely through their territory and submit to their demands. At the same time, their political situation is highly unstable. There is a growing rebel alliance and a Galactic Civil War which intensified immediately after the Emperor abolished the Imperial Senate and destroyed Alderaan. Within a few years the Emperor was toppled, and the second Death Star was destroyed.

The Federation is very small compared to the Galactic Empire. It has 150 member planets and spans an estimated 1,000-8,000 light years. The situation in Star Trek is tenuous, but as of the end of the Dominion war, is much more peaceful than in previous generations. The Romulan Empire and Klingon Empire allied with the Federation to stop the Dominion from the Gamma Quadrant, along with their Cardassian and Breen allies. In Star Trek Insurrection, the entire Romulan government was decapitated by rogue Remans. I doubt any of the surrounding civilizations would side with an incursion from a distant enemy, as the last civilization to do that, the Cardassians, wound up in ruins succumbing to an invasion by almost every other alpha quadrant power.

In terms of size the Empire wins handedly. In terms of stability the Empire loses handedly.

10) Technological advancement

Technology in Star Wars is very stagnant. Often in video games, the dark side re-uses some ancient weapon built 10,000+years ago. They have been space faring for thousands of years, and their capabilities from 3,000 years ago are barely improved to their capabilities as of 0 ABY. The only thing that really has improved since then is their knowledge of the Galaxy. By the time of the Galactic Empire more planets had been explored than in the time of the Sith Empire, and new settlements were made on planets like Tatooine. The structures however, are very similar. Very little improvement can be seen between the time of the Old Republic/Sith Empire seen in KOTOR and SWTOR and the Star Wars movies, and even less between episodes I-III and episodes IV-VI. Their civilization seems to have reached a point of technological stagnation long ago. Their most advanced technologies, such as hyperdrive, they reverse engineer from extinct civilizations.

Technology in Star Trek has vastly improved in the last 300 years, and even in the last 50-100 years. In TOS (80-100 years before TNG) they had no holodecks, and matter to energy conversion was limited to transporters. Things were less portable, and there was much less room for living quarters and almost the entire crew had to sleep in bunks like on a navy ship. By TNG they had developed holodeck technology, which combines holography with energy to matter conversion, and forcefields. It can replicate almost any real life environment within a chamber of defined dimensions. 5 years later during DS9 and Voyager they combined this technology with subspace communication allowing holograms, and holographic projections of personnel, to be projected onto other ships. By the 28th and 29th centuries, they have regular time travel, time travel rules, and are able to scan through time using sensors as we scan space today.

Technological improvement is much better in Star Trek. This makes any attempt to compare the to to importantly be tied to a particular era.

10) Misc

Star Trek has had the ability to convert matter to energy, transmit it, and then rematerialize it for centuries. They now use this regularly on people as a quick mode for transportation. Accidents used to be frequent but by the 2300s it was very safe.

Because matter energy conversions are so widespread, the economy of the Alpha Quadrant is largely energy based. Mines mostly exist to extract materials which can generate high amounts of energy, but most matter can simply be replicated. In Star Wars they have a high-tech material economy, which can be more easily disrupted as it is based on things which must be crafted from existing matter.

Ground combat... In Star Wars they still use mechanized equipment to wage ground war similar to advanced tanks, and in the time of the Galactic Empire with giant walkers called AT-STs and AT-ATs; there are also very fast speeders and other vehicles. Armies are equipped for war. In Star Trek they generally beam from one part of a planet to another, or take a shuttle. If beaming technology is disrupted Starfleet personnel wind up stranded. Armies are also less equipped for war, but more for peacekeeping. However the accuracy of Starfleet personnel, or really any weapon in Star Trek, is much higher than the general accuracy of Stormtroopers, Clone Troopers, Battledroids, or really any Star Wars army ever seen. I would definitely say AT-STs and AT-ATs would cause the Federation a lot of trouble in a ground fight if transporter technology was unavailable. If it is available, I imagine Federation personnel could simply beam into an AT-AT.

The Force... Star Wars has a mysterious, somewhat biologically defined component to it that many religions in the series focus on. It gives some humanoids telekinetic and otherwise super-human abilities. There is nothing like this in Star Trek except for telepathic species, and cloning/genetic tampering. The Force definitely could cause the Federation problems, and make up for some of the Empire's inability to build proper sensors.

Gravity Well Generators... In Star Wars they have Gravity Well Generators which can stop a ship from entering Hyperspace. In Star Trek however, the only thing that can block warp fields is damage to subspace, such as damage caused by an Omega 13 explosion. I am uncertain if Gravity Wells would effect subspace travel in the same dramatic way they do Hyperspace Travel.

Conclusions:

In a 1 v 1 situation I would guess that a Federation ship, be it Galaxy Class, Intrepid Class, or Defiant Class would handedly outmaneuver and easily cripple a Star Destroyer by causing kinetic damage through the use of proton or quantum torpedoes. The fighters from a Star Destroyer would be easily shot down as well.

The sheer size of the Empire however makes it a formidable adversary. I doubt the Federation could take on the entire Galactic Empire, in the Empire's galaxy, and win. Especially if they were unable to procure hyperdrive technology. They could cause significant damage and possibly disrupt their entire economy through attrition however, and probably get many planets on their side. With the Rebels help, and hyperdrives, a Federation Rebel Alliance could probably crush the Empire.

An Imperial invasion of the Alpha Quadrant could be a significant threat if the Empire could get enough ships into the Alpha Quadrant in the first place. It is unclear if Star Wars hyperdrive technology would work outside of their own galaxy. If they rely on beacons already established for navigation, it would make navigation nearly impossible for hyperspace in the first place. If the hyperspace corridors were merely discovered, then unless those corridors also exist in our galaxy, it is impossible for the Empire to go anywhere using hyperdrive technology.

So basically, it depends on a lot of things. You cannot come to a conclusion for sure because the realities of each franchise are so different. It would depend a lot on how physics of one fictional franchise interacted with another, or even how their physics works outside of the Empire's well-explored space.

are you okay?

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:10

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Hard Clumping posted:

are you okay?

Was really expecting this to be a "same".

What a surprise twist.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:11

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Hard Clumping posted:

are you okay?

i read every word of it it was p deec

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:12

Hard Clumping: Mar 19, 2008; Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS

Chomp8645 posted:

Was really expecting this to be a "same".

What a surprise twist.

i hope snatch duster is okay

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:24

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

Snatch Duster please write or find one for Babylon 5 vs. Star Trek presuming heavy, but not direct, Vorlon support of an all-races B5 alliance, excepting of course the Makab, Shadow and Drakh peoples.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:31

My Q-Face: Jul 8, 2002; A dumb racist who need to kill themselves

Yup, this is why I read the TVIV Star Trek thread, my daily dose of :spergin:

Star Trek info!

# ? Dec 17, 2015 00:31

khwarezm: Oct 26, 2010; Deal with it.

Hard Clumping posted:

i hope snatch duster is okay

I think he got that post from Quora.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 01:11

Delsaber: Oct 1, 2013; This may or may not be correct.

shadow puppet of a posted:

Snatch Duster please write or find one for Babylon 5 vs. Star Trek presuming heavy, but not direct, Vorlon support of an all-races B5 alliance, excepting of course the Makab, Shadow and Drakh peoples.

Star Wreck exists so this is probably unnecessary.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 01:59

chaosbreather: Dec 9, 2001; Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.

Snatch Duster posted:

according to the expanded universe
available in the Star Wars expanded universe as well.
One source fan fiction
They rely on fan fiction to determine their exact location see fan fiction In non-canon such as Empire at War
The Empire in Star Wars is a some guys in a ball and like a dozen ships
Very little improvement can be seen between the time of the non canon/non canon seen in non canon
they non canon from expanded universe
The Force... is midiclorians

well according to star trek fan fiction wesley is picard's gently caress slave?

# ? Dec 17, 2015 01:59

Tujague: May 8, 2007; by LadyAmbien

I googled "unicron" from the previous page and found a wiki that might just be more autistic than Memory Alpha

# ? Dec 17, 2015 03:25

BottledBodhisvata: Jul 26, 2013; by Lowtax

The best scene in all of Trek is Quark reciting Picard's "The line must be drawn here" speech.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 04:08

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

Man we've been Snatch Dusted again!

This is the same dude who in the Vermintide thread said all the loot you get for your characters was useless but you needed it to play on the hardest difficulty setting which was the "true difficulty setting" for the game as the devs intended it to be played.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 06:40

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

Also I don't know why Enterprise felt it needed to explain the forehead ridges thing when they didn't even explain why they went from touch screens to buttons, knobs, and dials, and then back to touchscreens.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 06:42

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

Kitchner posted:

Also I don't know why Enterprise felt it needed to explain the forehead ridges thing when they didn't even explain why they went from touch screens to buttons, knobs, and dials, and then back to touchscreens.

Federation HQ went through an audiophile phase. Early Excelsior-class ships were packed with external banks of mpingo vibration-absorbing discs and the dlithium was loaded on a solid granite plinth with brass spike feet, every Jeffries tube was thick with needless power conditioners and cloth braided cable sleeves. The costs of construction were astronomical even for a post-monetary civilization.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 06:47

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

shadow puppet of a posted:

Federation HQ went through an audiophile phase. Early Excelsior-class ships were packed with external banks of mpingo vibration-absorbing discs and the dlithium was loaded on a solid granite plinth with brass spike feet, every Jeffries tube was thick with needless power conditioners and cloth braided cable sleeves. The costs of construction were astronomical even for a post-monetary civilization.

I mean that all sounds very technical and I didn't understand any of it so it's the perfect star trek tech explanation.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 07:04

JediTalentAgent: Jun 5, 2005; Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!

Probably some handwaving about how they discovered some security flaw with the touchscreen devices that could allow remote hacking of Starfleet ships or corrupting Okudagrams to give inaccurate labels. Moving to buttons and levers for an era hardwired everything to to serve more single use duty to prevent that.

Starfleet got hit with adware that they thought was a real control PADD menu. They eventually patch it and move back to touchscreens a generation later.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 08:04

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

I don't know what y'all are talking about, the NX-01 was all buttons and knobs and levers.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 08:45

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

MikeJF posted:

I don't know what y'all are talking about, the NX-01 was all buttons and knobs and levers.

Looking at the photos on the bridge there are a lot of screens that I swear I remember being touch screens but maybe they weren't.

We still have touch screens in the modern day though and then they've decided to go back to buttons and knobs :colbert:

EDIT: I guess unless the Enterprise is based in an alternative universe where touchscreens are invented after light speed travel somehow...

# ? Dec 17, 2015 09:48

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Kitchner posted:

Looking at the photos on the bridge there are a lot of screens that I swear I remember being touch screens but maybe they weren't.

We still have touch screens in the modern day though and then they've decided to go back to buttons and knobs

EDIT: I guess unless the Enterprise is based in an alternative universe where touchscreens are invented after light speed travel somehow...

Oh they did touch them, but the main controlling was the buttons.

You can't prove the screens on TOS couldn't sense touch too! They certainly wrote on those giant tablets with styluses.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 10:02

My Q-Face: Jul 8, 2002; A dumb racist who need to kill themselves

Kitchner posted:

Looking at the photos on the bridge there are a lot of screens that I swear I remember being touch screens but maybe they weren't.

We still have touch screens in the modern day though and then they've decided to go back to buttons and knobs

EDIT: I guess unless the Enterprise is based in an alternative universe where touchscreens are invented after light speed travel somehow...

Touch screens are awesome until the lights go out or you have to look up while using them. That's one of the biggest complaints I've heard about the Tesla, it's impossible to navigate the screen if you're not looking directly at it.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 10:21

chaosbreather: Dec 9, 2001; Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.

since the universal translator works by constantly scanning your brain all the time and figuring out what you mean to say

and the comms system makes use of the computer's ftl shunt it literally reads the future to connect you to who you're calling by the time you say their name -
so troi hears 'picard to troi' as he says it

it's been theorised that the ui of the enterprise similarly makes use of cyberpsychic powers to give you a contextual interface where the thing you're thinking about is the button that you're about to press. so you're just pressing any button (the button you were always, predestined, going to press), to authorise the action. thats why they don't need readable labels, they're just for debugging purposes.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 12:38

Drunken Baker: Feb 3, 2015; VODKA STYLE DRINK

chaosbreather posted:

it's been theorised that the ui of the enterprise similarly makes use of cyberpsychic powers to give you a contextual interface where the thing you're thinking about is the button that you're about to press. so you're just pressing any button (the button you were always, predestined, going to press), to authorise the action. thats why they don't need readable labels, they're just for debugging purposes.

Hahha so why even have a screen at all? Why arent they all in green goo like the matirx?

Nerds are the worst. Just accept that these future people are super smart and know their job/ui inside out so they can mash whatever the hell they like. If you(Not you, Chaosbreather, the nerds) want to complain that in Episode 24359 Wesley uses the same terminal and presses his fingers slightly left to where Worf pressed them then just imagine you can re-configure the buttons like icons on a desktops.

You don't have to pretend the Enterprise is psychic. Jeeeesus.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 13:02

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

ChogsEnhour posted:

Hahha so why even have a screen at all? Why arent they all in green goo like the matirx?

Nerds are the worst. Just accept that these future people are super smart and know their job/ui inside out so they can mash whatever the hell they like. If you(Not you, Chaosbreather, the nerds) want to complain that in Episode 24359 Wesley uses the same terminal and presses his fingers slightly left to where Worf pressed them then just imagine you can re-configure the buttons like icons on a desktops.

You don't have to pretend the Enterprise is psychic. Jeeeesus.

actually wil wheaton was the only guy who was enough of a dork to think about the particular sequence of buttons he was pushing even when his console wasnt visible

# ? Dec 17, 2015 13:18

chaosbreather: Dec 9, 2001; Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.

ChogsEnhour posted:

Hahha so why even have a screen at all? Why arent they all in green goo like the matirx?

Nerds are the worst. Just accept that these future people are super smart and know their job/ui inside out so they can mash whatever the hell they like. If you(Not you, Chaosbreather, the nerds) want to complain that in Episode 24359 Wesley uses the same terminal and presses his fingers slightly left to where Worf pressed them then just imagine you can re-configure the buttons like icons on a desktops.

You don't have to pretend the Enterprise is psychic. Jeeeesus.

but then there's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKFMWhxJask&t=15s

yeah that's a two button combo right from what appears to be a stock helm panel to bring up a track list for bouncy ball karaoke HMS Pinafore, with no intermediate menus at all

so there's that.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 13:29

CharlieWhiskey: Aug 18, 2005; everything, all the time

this is the world

Or the panel can detect your comm badge and can fetch your preferred LCARS layout. That's also the Captain's Yacht, right?

# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:17

Kitchner: Nov 9, 2012; IT CAN'T BE BARGAINED WITH.
IT CAN'T BE REASONED WITH.
IT DOESN'T FEEL PITY, OR REMORSE, OR FEAR.
AND IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP, EVER, UNTIL YOU ADMIT YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT WARHAMMER; Clapping Larry

Where has it ever shown that the badge communicates "Picard to troi" at the same time Picard says it?

Google listens when I say "Hey Google" but it must have been always listening right?

So "Picard to" is just like "Hey google" it means "Start getting ready to transmit the bitching message" and then really it just starts transmitting as soon as you say "Troi" so it's like a second out if that. The reason it transmits "Picard to" is because it obviously stores the sound of Picard to and then transmits that.

The enterprise is not psychic.

The reason the consoles never changed was because they couldn't afford expensive props. That's it.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:25

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

There's that one episode where you can kind of see the guys opening and closing the doors so now it is 100% verified nerd canon that most of the crew members actually live inside the walls and have no job other than to open and close doors for Picard and the other senior staff.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:43

Drunken Baker: Feb 3, 2015; VODKA STYLE DRINK

Clark Nova posted:

There's that one episode where you can kind of see the guys opening and closing the doors so now it is 100% verified nerd canon that most of the crew members actually live inside the walls and have no job other than to open and close doors for Picard and the other senior staff.

Are Trek nerds as autistic about this as Star Wars nerds?

I don't know how much of a cross over there is, but on Wookipedia they take everything said in the films literally TO A FAULT.

For example when Leia tells Moff Tarkin "I could smell your stench as soon as I arrived" the nerds took that to mean he has a disease that actually makes him stink so badly that Leia could smell him from across the planet or whatever.

Or I imagine because there's so much Star Trek compared to Wars it'd be harder to adhere to that level of lunacy.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:00

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

I think most of the poo poo like that in wookiepedia is just slavishly documenting dumb, awful Expanded Universe garbage where the authors had weird restrictions imposed on them by Lucas and had to refer back to the movies constantly. A boundless universe of adventure with millions of worlds that are all populated mostly by smugglers in cantinas and there are like twelve people out of trillions who can ever do anything that matters.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:34

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# ? May 15, 2024 18:49

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

shadow puppet of a posted:

Federation HQ went through an audiophile phase.

I guess that explains why the helm controls in Star Trek VI had all those sound board sliders. It's to give the impulse engines that lovely warm, analog feel.

Clark Nova posted:

I think most of the poo poo like that in wookiepedia is just slavishly documenting dumb, awful Expanded Universe garbage where the authors had weird restrictions imposed on them by Lucas and had to refer back to the movies constantly. A boundless universe of adventure with millions of worlds that are all populated mostly by smugglers in cantinas and there are like twelve people out of trillions who can ever do anything that matters.

From what I've heard, this was because only part of the sales of the Star Wars novels were to hardcore fans who actually followed the EU. A substantial fraction was just people in bookshops going "Oh hey look, Star Wars. I loved that as a kid, this book ought to be fun." Those people are expecting to read about the adventures of Luke and Leia and Han, not about some character invented by Karen Traviss who's still trying to help a planet invented by Timothy Zahn recover from a disaster that happened in a novel by Kevin J. Anderson.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:25

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Trek: This one is about drinkin' kanar with Damar and Gull Dukat

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