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Fred Breakfast posted:Plus they got the wrong kid: It really is bizarre to me that they didn't book that kid. He's so much more naturalistic. Even the third kid is leagues better than Lloyd's stilted, practiced reading.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:38
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RBA Starblade posted:He should have sounded as James Earl Jones as a 9 year old. No explanation why.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:38
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RBA Starblade posted:He should have sounded as James Earl Jones as a 9 year old. No explanation why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_H3_g9PhnM
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Dec 16, 2015 20:40
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RE: James Earl Jones, I rewatched the prequels last month, and it was so silly hearing him ask about Padme after the transformation. Like, it was so surreal. Real Darth Vader concerned about a person named Padme.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:41
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Fred Breakfast posted:Yeah, heaven forbid the audience actually ask for a good story. Jesus Christ that is the dumbest loving argument.... The story is that a sweet little munchkin child becomes a sadistic supervillain. That other kid didn't come across as a scrappy, happy-go-lucky Tom Sawyer type; he practically had a thousand-yard stare. Also he was putting the moves on Padme like some sort of prepubescent Casanova. Lloyd, on the other hand, was just innocently blurting stuff out like an actual kid. Actual kids don't pepper their casual conversations with pregnant pauses and studied looks betraying a deep wellspring of tortured emotion. The kid had too much training compared to Lloyd. Chances are he'd been dragged to so many acting classes and auditions by his parents that he didn't even know how to act like an actual kid anymore.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:41
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I should have played Anakin why didn't George ask me? Holy gently caress Jake Lloyd's older than me. Cnut the Great posted:Chances are he'd been dragged to so many acting classes and auditions by his parents that he didn't even know how to act like an actual kid anymore. That's a lot to put on a child based on 4 seconds of video footage.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:42
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no one wants to watch an actual child in a movie. They want to watch a movie child, who is just precocious enough. God Lloyd was poo poo. Shoulda made anakin a teen.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:43
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Bongo Bill posted:It's more productive to discuss the film that's in the projector than the film that's in your imagination. Okay: The film in the projector missed its target and failed to reach the heights of other movies in the saga, hence the low marks by critics. And with the behind the scenes of these movies being religiously documented, it opens up a window of speculation of what could have been. You know, a thing every human being ever has pondered about something. The movie I want vs the movie I saw isn't as different as you're suggesting. The biggest problem by far is execution.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:44
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Cnut the Great posted:The story is that a sweet little munchkin child becomes a sadistic supervillain. That other kid didn't come across as a scrappy, happy-go-lucky Tom Sawyer type; he practically had a thousand-yard stare. Let's be fair: Anakin was a slave without a father and had a proximity bomb in his head. Cnut the Great posted:Also he was putting the moves on Padme like some sort of prepubescent Casanova. Ha, that actually explains his actions in Attack of the Clones.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:47
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I'm kinda amazed you managed to conjure up a reply to that extremely stupid post by Bill
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Dec 16, 2015 20:48
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Fred Breakfast posted:Okay: "Execution" is the free space in prequel criticism bingo, and the rest of this post still just means that you were told a different story than the one you were expecting.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:51
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I can't decide what I want more: a. An incredible, timeless Star Wars film b. Schadenfreudgasm watching billions of nerds drown in rage-tears Help me SA. You're my only hope. e: I want the shadenfreude
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Dec 16, 2015 20:53
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Jerkface posted:no one wants to watch an actual child in a movie. Nah. A naturalistic child could be great in a movie if handled properly. There's a fine line between annoying and childlike. Jake Lloyd never really crosses it.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:53
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Toops posted:I can't decide what I want more: Apparently you can have both, provided it decimates the EU and proves to be accessible to people who aren't Star Wars obsessives. That's what I'm hoping for, personally.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:59
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Toops posted:I can't decide what I want more: The schadenfreude is tempting but I'm imagining how awesome it would be for a new Star Wars movie to surprise everyone and be a major critical success ala Fury Road.
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Dec 16, 2015 20:59
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Basebf555 posted:The schadenfreude is tempting but I'm imagining how awesome it would be for a new Star Wars movie to surprise everyone and be a major critical success ala Fury Road. Fury Road generally had low expectations though and was kind of a surprise hit commercially as well, so it won't be anything like that even if it is good.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:01
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Bongo Bill posted:"Execution" is the free space in prequel criticism bingo, and the rest of this post still just means that you were told a different story than the one you were expecting. Head canon is the free space in prequel defense bingo, and the rest of this post just still means that you can't accept the fact that the movies aren't as good as you want them to be. See what I did here?
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Dec 16, 2015 21:02
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Bongo Bill posted:"Execution" is the free space in prequel criticism bingo, and the rest of this post still just means that you were told a different story than the one you were expecting. Attention everybody: When attempting to phrase your dislike of the Star Wars prequels, you must refrain from mentioning: - Plot - Acting - Effects of any kind - Any ind of fix for perceived flaws in plot or story - Robots - Slaves - Sheev
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Dec 16, 2015 21:03
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Grendels Dad posted:Attention everybody: When attempting to phrase your dislike of the Star Wars prequels, you must refrain from mentioning: Don't talk poo poo on Sheev, bruh.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:04
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Just came home from seeing the movie. My spoiler-free analysis: way better than the start to the previous trilogy. Details: I felt like there was a bit too much action without a breather and maybe a bit too many one-liners. I honestly can't remember if there was this much comedy in the original Star Wars, I have to check it again. Finn honestly felt a lot like a comic relief character whereas Rey was the more stoic one. Despite this I enjoyed it very much and my rear end didn't start to squirm, even though we had like 15 minutes of commercials after the movie was marked to start.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:06
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Grendels Dad posted:Attention everybody: When attempting to phrase your dislike of the Star Wars prequels, you must refrain from mentioning: Please limit discussion of the prequel films to their filmic qualities. Thank you.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:08
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I'm just saying that the word "execution" by itself is not a convincing argument or useful summary, despite how often it is used verbatim.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:11
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the execution of the prequels? I'm for it
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Dec 16, 2015 21:13
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Fred Breakfast posted:Don't talk poo poo on Sheev, bruh. That's what I'm saying, Sheev is strictly off-limits. No complaints about Sheev.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:14
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The key thing is, unlike in the real world where you can assume most people will agree with you, here you need to assume someone may want to debate with you about the prequels. So you can't just say "the plot sucked, the acting sucked and the whole thing was bad execution" without someone asking just what you mean by that. Plenty of people have made very specific posts about what they find wrong with the prequels and those are always appreciated. Sometimes I think the initial disagreement is construed as some sort of insult when really its an invitation to what could be an interesting discussion. Certain posters have a tone that can be condescending though, which doesn't help matters.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:17
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Jerkface posted:no one wants to watch an actual child in a movie. They want to watch a movie child, who is just precocious enough. God Lloyd was poo poo. Shoulda made anakin a teen. They should have just *started* with Attack of the Clones in terms of age. By which I mean had Anakin already learning from Kenobi. Then you could have spent 2 entire movies actually building a real friendship between them. Anakin interacts with Ben essentially zero time at all in Phantom Menace (Qui-Gon gets all that relationship-building time for no good reason. He's a completely superfluous character and nothing was gained by not having Ben do all the stuff he did), and by Attack of the Clones he's already petulant and there's no indication other than being directly told in the dialog that they're friends in the slightest. We never saw the shift. Spend your first two films exploring that relationship so that it means something in Part 3 when it all crumbles to nothing.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:19
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The idea of starting with the "pure innocence" of a child is great. It assumes that it heightens empathy and connection and makes the audience struggle harder while watching someone grow up into the dictator of the galaxy. The prequels are completely full of good ideas like this. The execution of all these ideas is what causes the...varied...reactions to them.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:22
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ComposerGuy posted:They should have just *started* with Attack of the Clones in terms of age. By which I mean had Anakin already learning from Kenobi. Then you could have spent 2 entire movies actually building a real friendship between them. Anakin interacts with Ben essentially zero time at all in Phantom Menace (Qui-Gon gets all that relationship-building time for no good reason. He's a completely superfluous character and nothing was gained by not having Ben do all the stuff he did), and by Attack of the Clones he's already petulant and there's no indication other than being directly told in the dialog that they're friends in the slightest. We never saw the shift. Spend your first two films exploring that relationship so that it means something in Part 3 when it all crumbles to nothing. One reason to start where he did is to have Padme be his mother (and the loss of his mother) all over again.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:23
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Toops posted:I can't decide what I want more: It can be both, and probably will be.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:27
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Darko posted:The idea of starting with the "pure innocence" of a child is great. It assumes that it heightens empathy and connection and makes the audience struggle harder while watching someone grow up into the dictator of the galaxy. The prequels are completely full of good ideas like this. Solution: Episode 1 Anakin is a child, Obi Wan befriends him. Episode 2 Anakin is 15-16, he's still cool with Obi Wan and everything's good, and an exciting plot is happening and we see the two characters bond a lot. Maybe the film ends with some event that causes a rift between them. Episode 3 Anakin is 20 and starting to develop some legit grievances. Then spend a full 2 hours turning him (rather than the 25 minutes we got in RotS). Or make Anakin older from the start (ie 30 or so) and have at least all of Episode 1 involve him as a fully fledged Jedi who helps out with whatever the plot is. Then have Episode 3 be 99% about the Empire's rise, and Anakin's turn is a small piece of that puzzle.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:28
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Looking at the tomatometer, it looks all the critics are saying "Yea, it's pretty good..." They're not claiming to have been awed. Star Trek Into Darkness has a very high critical approval percentage as well and now that movie is derided.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:29
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You won't have a schadenfreudegasm like with the prequels because those that do will take great lengths to tell you that they weren't upset at the latest Star Wars movie that they didn't grow up with because they didn't grow up with it.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:31
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95% tomato meter is great news no matter how you slice it.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:31
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Toops posted:I can't decide what I want more: You can get b. with almost anything, even good things.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:32
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starry skies above posted:Star Trek Into Darkness has a very high critical approval percentage as well and now that movie is derided. It is?
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Dec 16, 2015 21:33
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cargohills posted:That doesn't apply to the Star Wars EU, given that they weren't mentioned beyond little nods in any of the 6 previous films. The Disney canon will be just the same, because only a very small proportion of the people who watch Star Wars read the comics or books. Beyond the fact that the prequel trilogy did actually acknowledge at least one part of the EU, there were also television shows, video games and other material which absolutely recognized the EU in fairly significant ways. If you liked Mara Jade there were two video games where you could play as her.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:33
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm just saying that the word "execution" by itself is not a convincing argument or useful summary, despite how often it is used verbatim. Dude, I posted an example of where they missed the mark. Darko posted:The idea of starting with the "pure innocence" of a child is great. It assumes that it heightens empathy and connection and makes the audience struggle harder while watching someone grow up into the dictator of the galaxy. The prequels are completely full of good ideas like this. Totally. There are good movies in there waiting to be chiseled out, and that's what makes it more frustrating. The problem isn't that Anakin is 9 or that Yoda is present etc. The movie(s) just needed a good punch-up and a sounding board for Ol' George. Honestly, if god-emperor himself Lawrence Kasdan had a hand in writing the PT, I doubt they would be that much different, at least character and location wise.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:36
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Darko posted:The idea of starting with the "pure innocence" of a child is great. It assumes that it heightens empathy and connection and makes the audience struggle harder while watching someone grow up into the dictator of the galaxy. The prequels are completely full of good ideas like this. This is a valid point. I think the biggest let-down of the prequels for me was the completely botched relationship between Anakin and Ben. Because Alec Guiness could act the poo poo out of literally anything, his delivery of the line "...and he was a good friend" in Hope, complete with his facial expressions really makes you believe that they were the best of friends and Ben is sad and melancholic about losing him. There was clear history there. So when they finally decided to show that history, the hosed it up big time. We're never given any real sense that the two of them were friends at all. The Kenobi of the prequels spends most of them highly annoyed by his "friend" and Anakin resents Kenobi almost from the jump. The 10-year skip from Phantom to Clones makes it worse, because they make all these references to events that you never see that supposedly cemented their bond, but it doesn't play. Maybe my real issue is with Qui-Gon, who, as I said, is completely superfluous. If you take his character and just have Ben do everything he did, he suddenly has at least SOME connection with child Anakin. There's literally no connection at all between them in Phantom. None. And Ben only takes on Anakin as his apprentice because it was Qui-Gon's dying wish. Make Ben the renegade (which is alluded to anyway by Yoda in the OT when he talks about Ben like "I've watched this one a long time and he's headstrong and always running off when he shouldn't be") who tends to defy the council and has a different way of looking at the Force. Give all that poo poo to him. Hell, having Ben find Anakin and push so hard to have him trained despite his age would even add something interesting to the scene in Empire when ghost-Ben and Yoda argue about whether Luke should be trained. Here's Yoda looking at yet another dangerous kid Kenobi has brought to him insisting he be trained because he's "the chosen one" or whatever.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:36
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The EU was clearly only allowed to run rampant with the whims of bad genre writers because they never intended to actually make any post-ROTJ movies. That changed when Disney bought the company and assets.
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Dec 16, 2015 21:37
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starry skies above posted:Looking at the tomatometer, it looks all the critics are saying "Yea, it's pretty good..." If you're unwilling to accept anything but complete and total satisfaction you're setting yourself up for disappointment morestuff fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Dec 16, 2015 21:37
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