Additional considerations for this thread during the current conflict:
Somebody fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 24, 2024 |
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# ? Dec 7, 2015 03:34 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:06 |
Uhh, why do Palestinians keep attacking Israeli soldiers?
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# ? Dec 7, 2015 03:41 |
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A pro read from the latest New Left Review. http://newleftreview.org/II/96/perry-anderson-the-house-of-zion Perry Anderson "The House of Zion" posted:
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# ? Dec 7, 2015 03:48 |
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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/hebron-kids-numbers-151203091934395.html Waiting till they issue yellow crescents
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 08:11 |
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So isn't that just a repost of A.A's communique from the previous thread? Implying that you've decided on your own "authority" to restart the I/P thread? Just askin' questions here. Because if that's the case...quote:And here's some of my rules:
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 09:30 |
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The Insect Court posted:So isn't that just a repost of A.A's communique from the previous thread? Implying that you've decided on your own "authority" to restart the I/P thread? Just askin' questions here. Because if that's the case... Exclamation Marx said in the M/E thread that it was time to post a new I/P thread. I asked for takers to be the new OP, because this thread is garbage, and Effectronica dutifully volunteered. His thread rules/guidelines are very similar to the ones I had. Also eat a dick you are the single worst poster in I/P you twat.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 09:55 |
The Insect Court posted:So isn't that just a repost of A.A's communique from the previous thread? Implying that you've decided on your own "authority" to restart the I/P thread? Just askin' questions here. Because if that's the case... Please leave my thread you antisemitic sack of poo poo.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 13:10 |
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I noticed an article floating around on facebook that the EU are takin steps against certain Israeli imports. It's rather about time.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 14:28 |
Yeah, I'm disheartened with lack of hummus in Latvian stores.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:15 |
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Demiurge4 posted:I noticed an article floating around on facebook that the EU are takin steps against certain Israeli imports. It's rather about time. If there is any organ with a finger on the pulse of the various tragedies intersecting in the Israel / Palestine conflict its facebook. That said I've done some cursory research relating to the end of the British mandatory government and the start of the Israeli/Arab war. I'm curious if there are any papers or books that present an effective if condensed narrative of the ensuing half century? I'm familiar with events after 2008 or so but everything between 1948 and 2008 is still something of a mystery for me outside of cursory googling.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:39 |
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Israel isn't committing a genocide of any kind. If they wanted to they could have done so at any time a long time ago, and probably saved themselves a lot of problems in having done it. Instead they spend extraordinary amounts of money trying to minimise casualties. The Iron dome didn't come about through staging a genocide it is a state of the art defensive system. Staging a genocide would involve manufacturing a PR campaign against your enemy first and foremost, it would probably involve scaling up casualties on your own side. You wouldn't build an Iron dome. You would put people in the way of targets, such as what "Palestine" and their majority elected government absolutely provably has. That's a war crime. It has been said before that if Palestine 'put down their guns' the conflict would be over. If Israel 'put down their guns' there would be no more Israel, and that's the truth. Palestine is and has always been a region, not a country. Nobody declared themselves a state until 1988, more than 20 years after Israel was there. Didn't apply for international recognition until 2011. There are many muslims and arabs living in Israel. There are no israelis or jews living in Gaza. There are mosques in Israel. After the 6 day war, yet another war started by its neighbours, Israel granted permanent Israeli residency to all people living in East Jerusalem. There is today a large muslim population because of that. Before the campaign in Gaza Israel evacuated a huge area closest to the Israeli border, and the best places to launch rockets from. What did Hamas do, they moved back with everyone else. Into schools, into hospitals, and launched their rockets from there. Israel isn't new in the area, they underwent an incredible amount of restraint before ever doing anything other than diplomatic about the terrorism problem. Now it seems like whenever this country does anything everyone is willing to jump down their throats. They are surrounded on all sides by internationally recognised terrorist organisations, which ideologically and theologically demand the extinction of jews. Not Israel, but rather literally the extinction of jews, the ethnoreligious demographic. Israel has a comprehensive set of rules that they follow in their dealings with terrorist threats. One of those rules involves the demolition of terrorist homes. That incentivises others who live in the home to turn terrorists in, to save the home. Israel has successfully reduced the threat to its citizens dramatically. Yet they still are attacked just about daily by what else, knives now, and stones. Still they haven't gone all Donald Trump about the situation, this should be a story of virtue.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:48 |
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https://parlanceprovince.wordpress.com/ I put together this site when I was reading the I/P thread a year or two ago, it has a ton of links from the third intifada.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:53 |
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Nolgthorn posted:Israel isn't committing a genocide of any kind. If they wanted to they could have done so at any time a long time ago, and probably saved themselves a lot of problems in having done it. Instead they spend extraordinary amounts of money trying to minimize casualties. .....I'm sorry what?
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:56 |
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CommieGIR posted:.....I'm sorry what? It's an old argument, if [Oppressor] was bad then they would've killed all of the [oppressed] a long time ago. You also sometimes see it with accusations of police brutality versus the black population in the US.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:59 |
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Nolgthorn posted:Israel isn't committing a genocide of any kind. If they wanted to they could have done so at any time a long time ago, and probably saved themselves a lot of problems in having done it. Instead they spend extraordinary amounts of money trying to minimise casualties. Just gonna quote some stuff that talks about this: You talk about how Israel is trying really hard to not kill civilians. https://parlanceprovince.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/7-things-to-consider-twice-part-3/ quote:3) “Why would Israel deliberately want to kill civilians?” And you accuse Palestinians of using human shields. https://parlanceprovince.wordpress.com/2014/08/07/7-things-to-consider-twice-part-4/ quote:4) “Does Hamas really use its own civilians as human shields?” More fun stuff about Israel using human shields: https://parlanceprovince.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/israel-using-human-shields/ quote:
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 15:59 |
Nolgthorn posted:Israel isn't committing a genocide of any kind. If they wanted to they could have done so at any time a long time ago, and probably saved themselves a lot of problems in having done it. Instead they spend extraordinary amounts of money trying to minimise casualties. Collective punishment of populations in occupied territories is a war crime.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:02 |
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computer parts posted:It's an old argument, if [Oppressor] was bad then they would've killed all of the [oppressed] a long time ago. I know, it was more rhetorical than anything. There was just too much bullshit in that entire post to quote the entire thing.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:18 |
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Gaza belonged to Israel. Israel after not being able to push a deal for a two state solution, took it in winning a war others started. Then decided "you know what, here, now you are your own state regardless of what you say." Gave Gaza back to its residents, along with its own government and left. Those residents then elected a terrorist theocracy, which immediately spent all available resources to start a new war with Israel. That resulted in the current situation, where Israel has set up a blockade for the purposes of having to babysit terrorists. Meanwhile do you realise that Gaza depends on Israel for everything it has? What is that, something Israel wanted? If at any point Israel doesn't reserve the right to re-enter Gaza, that poses a threat to Israeli citizens. If at any point Israel were to let down the blockade, that poses a threat to Israeli citizens. So what is the solution exactly that you propose, where one side is completely unreasonable. Two state solution? Gaza says no. Ok have your own state anyway. Gaza elects terrorists.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:21 |
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Nolgthorn posted:Gaza belonged to Israel. Israel after not being able to push a deal for a two state solution, took it in winning a war others started. Then decided "you know what, here, now you are your own state regardless of what you say." Gave Gaza back to its residents, along with its own government and left. Golda Meir? Is that you? So the illegal settlements, endless blockades, using Palestinian children as human shields, bombing a city....all Palestinians fault. Got it.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:28 |
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Nolgthorn posted:Gaza belonged to Israel. Israel after not being able to push a deal for a two state solution, took it in winning a war others started. Then decided "you know what, here, now you are your own state regardless of what you say." Gave Gaza back to its residents, along with its own government and left. Do I really have to post that one Menachem Begin speech about who actually started the Six-Day War again or what?
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:29 |
Israeli territorial annexations are all illegal under international law, both formally through the UN, and informally through lack of general recognition.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:40 |
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Cerebral Bore posted:Do I really have to post that one Menachem Begin speech about who actually started the Six-Day War again or what? Nasser declared war and then Iraq moved troops into Jordan, was it something like that? That seems approximately or exactly what happened. I feel bothered that I have to actually write that here or else people who don't do any research will just sit and assume that maybe Israel started the 6 day war, because that guy on the internet insinuated it. Effectronica posted:Israeli territorial annexations are all illegal under international law, both formally through the UN, and informally through lack of general recognition. Are you talking about east jerusalem, because other than that I don't know what you're talking about. Why not instead of being vague just talk about what you're talking about, for my benefit and everyone else. The situation with jerusalem is so ridiculous, it was being contested between Jordan and Israel in 1948. Then in 1988 the PLO decided that it was the capital of the state of palestine, the same time it decided palestine was a state. Dunno why you'd be talking about jerusalem in a response to a post which specifically only talked about Gaza. Other than the fact that you for some reason think Gaza is annexed by Israel.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 16:59 |
Nolgthorn posted:Nasser declared war and then Iraq moved troops into Jordan, was it something like that? That seems approximately or exactly what happened. I feel bothered that I have to actually write that here or else people who don't do any research will just sit and assume that maybe Israel started the 6 day war, because that guy on the internet insinuated it. You said that Gaza was Israel's, which is false because any territorial annexation would have been illegal, and false because it wasn't part of the Israeli part of the partition agreement, and false because, by the logic where Palestine isn't a real nation, Gaza is Philistine territory. Similarly, most of Israel is illegally-occupied Judean and Edomite territory.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:02 |
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Effectronica posted:You said that Gaza was Israel's, which is false because any territorial annexation would have been illegal, and false because it wasn't part of the Israeli part of the partition agreement, and false because, by the logic where Palestine isn't a real nation, Gaza is Philistine territory. Similarly, most of Israel is illegally-occupied Judean and Edomite territory. According to who, Hamas? Which one of the other terrorist groups said that. How do you get them to send their newsletter so far, so like do you have to pay for postage on that or do they cover it for you. Do you use a PO box, so that you aren't suspected of being a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser or how do you do it. There's a Golan Heights occupied territory. After a war there is always a period of occupation, to ensure safety. The territory was taken from Syria and Israel offered to resolve the occupation as quickly as possible with Syria, in exchange for a peace agreement. Which seems utterly reasonable to me. But not to Syria so it remains occupied. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:20 |
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Nolgthorn posted:According to who, Hamas? Which one of the other terrorist groups said that. How do you get them to send their newsletter so far, so like do you have to pay for postage on that or do they cover it for you. Do you use a PO box, so that you aren't suspected of being a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser or how do you do it. So tell us, do you view all Palestinians as terrorists undeserving of rights or land? Look hare careful the IDF is, they don't want to cause unnecessary causalities I suppose...
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:26 |
Nolgthorn posted:According to who, Hamas? Which one of the other terrorist groups said that. How do you get them to send their newsletter so far, so like do you have to pay for postage on that or do they cover it for you. Do you use a PO box, so that you aren't suspected of being a terrorist or terrorist sympathiser or how do you do it. If Palestine isn't a real nation, and Israel is, on the grounds you have copy-pasted out, then Israel's legitimacy derives from the existence of the historical Kingdom of Israel. Nevertheless, modern Israel has also illegally incorporated territories of the Kingdom of Judah, the Philistine city-states, and the Edomite peoples into its borders, by these standards. I don't hold with these standards, but you seem to.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 17:42 |
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Not even one page and we've already got "are you getting the HAMAS newsletter you terrorist / terrorist sympathizer", good job goons.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:40 |
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CommieGIR posted:So tell us, do you view all Palestinians as terrorists undeserving of rights or land? Look at how careless Hamas are, provoking Israel to respond in self defence against foreign attack. If Palestinians do not halt these attacks wherever and whenever they occur, then they are guilty of participating in those attacks and will be treated as enemy combatants without consideration for any other factors. There are no shades of grey in enemy combatant status; it is a binary issue. Just look at the current antisemitic knifing epidemic in Israel and the response of Israelis when a knifing occurs: that is the response necessary of Palestinians whenever a terrorist attack occurs in order to halt those attacks. Until such a time as Palestinians are able to stop terrorist attacks without Israeli intervention, Palestine will never develop.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:46 |
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Nolgthorn posted:Israel isn't committing a genocide of any kind. If they wanted to they could have done so at any time a long time ago, and probably saved themselves a lot of problems in having done it. Instead they spend extraordinary amounts of money trying to minimise casualties. israel is an ethnic supremacist apartheid state founded on ethnic cleansing, and if the best defense of them you can come up with is "but their neighbors are worse!!!!!!!" that's pretty pathetic, both for israel and for you
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:54 |
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icantfindaname posted:israel is an ethnic supremacist apartheid state founded on ethnic cleansing, and if the best defense of them you can come up with is "but their neighbors are worse!!!!!!!" that's pretty pathetic, both for israel and for you Obviously you support terrorism (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:57 |
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icantfindaname posted:israel is an ethnic supremacist apartheid state founded on ethnic cleansing, and if the best defense of them you can come up with is "but their neighbors are worse!!!!!!!" that's pretty pathetic, both for israel and for you Their neighbors are much worse, and yet you don't see Palestinians criticizing them for their crimes. Gee, maybe the terrorist actions of Hamas and Palestinians are rooted in antisemitism? Certainly this whole wave of knifings in Israel is.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:57 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Their neighbors are much worse, and yet you don't see Palestinians criticizing them for their crimes. Gee, maybe the terrorist actions of Hamas and Palestinians are rooted in antisemitism? Certainly this whole wave of knifings in Israel is. settle down rahm *holds MIGF back by his forehead, which is at arm-height, as he wildly flails his arms without reaching me* (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 18:59 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Their neighbors are much worse, and yet you don't see Palestinians criticizing them for their crimes. Gee, maybe the terrorist actions of Hamas and Palestinians are rooted in antisemitism? Certainly this whole wave of knifings in Israel is. People are most likely to criticize crimes they're the victim of. Israel complaining that nobody seems to care about how awful things are in the rest of the Middle East (as though people aren't also concerned about that too) is international-grade concern trolling. If anything, Palestinians could be commended for their history of expressing solidarity with other oppressed peoples, like the Irish or the Ferguson protesters. Although engaging you at all is counterproductive, as from your posting history I almost get the feeling you're engaged in an elaborate troll to make Israel look bad by saying whatever it takes to keep arguments spinning and the status quo in place while the Palestinians gradually get ground down in the meantime. The current situation being what it is, all of our debating is especially useless since unless something major changes Israel will continue to make a Palestinian state impossible one settlement at a time. It makes it hard to believe the sincerity of strong pro-zionists when all they really need to do is stall for time. Dolash fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 17, 2015 |
# ? Dec 17, 2015 19:08 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Their neighbors are much worse, and yet you don't see Palestinians criticizing them for their crimes. Gee, maybe the terrorist actions of Hamas and Palestinians are rooted in antisemitism? Certainly this whole wave of knifings in Israel is. Can someone post that article about an israeli stabbing another israeli because the first guy was literally wandering around looking for targets and thought the second guy was a filthy palestinian I mean it won't slow migf's roll or nothing I just want to have it at hand
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 20:26 |
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Suitaru posted:Can someone post that article about an israeli stabbing another israeli because the first guy was literally wandering around looking for targets and thought the second guy was a filthy palestinian Better yet: Post the article about the arson case where settlers they burned two parents and a baby alive, and while the Israeli's will rush a Palestinian to court and bulldoze his house in a heartbeat, they are dragging their feet and billing the Palestinian government for the baby's healthcare. Sucks to be a second class citizens in Israel.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 20:28 |
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CommieGIR posted:Better yet: Post the article about the arson case where settlers they burned two parents and a baby alive, and while the Israeli's will rush a Palestinian to court and bulldoze his house in a heartbeat, they are dragging their feet and billing the Palestinian government for the baby's healthcare. Palestinians are not second class citizens of Israel; they are alien to Israel. Israel is billing the representative government of an alien for healthcare provided. If that government does not want healthcare provided to their national on foreign soil, then they are free to evacuate that national.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 20:30 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Palestinians are not second class citizens of Israel; they are alien to Israel. Israel is billing the representative government of an alien for healthcare provided. If that government does not want healthcare provided to their national on foreign soil, then they are free to evacuate that national. "Israelis" are aliens in Palestine. Nothing they do is legal, except packing up and leaving.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 20:53 |
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My Imaginary GF posted:Palestinians are not second class citizens of Israel; they are alien to Israel. Israel is billing the representative government of an alien for healthcare provided. If that government does not want healthcare provided to their national on foreign soil, then they are free to evacuate that national. Yeeeeahhhhh. Except for that whole slow march of expansion of Israeli Settlements where you live in Palestinian territory one day, but Israeli the next. Nice try though.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 20:54 |
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Jagchosis posted:Also eat a dick you are the single worst poster in I/P you twat. Effectronica posted:Please leave my thread you antisemitic sack of poo poo. icantfindaname posted:settle down rahm SedanChair posted:"Israelis" are aliens in Palestine. Nothing they do is legal, except packing up and leaving. Off to a great start with the new I/P thread. Aren't there like three different offsite LF refugee forums you could go post in, instead of trying to resurrect it? In actual news, Erdogan seems to be practicing a 'one in, one out' enemies list. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.692478 quote:Israel and Turkey have reached understanding on the outlines of a reconciliation agreement that would put an end to the long crisis in relations between the two countries and normalize ties.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 23:34 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 04:06 |
The Insect Court posted:Off to a great start with the new I/P thread. Aren't there like three different offsite LF refugee forums you could go post in, instead of trying to resurrect it? Memes like "LF refugee" are banned in this thread.
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# ? Dec 17, 2015 23:40 |