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Pellisworth posted:I'm not really thrilled with the new diplomatic system. It doesn't seem to solve what was the most glaring issue (imo), which is nations deciding all of a sudden they want all your poo poo and breaking a mutually beneficial alliance out of the blue. In my For Odin game, I was max trust allies with Mega Brandenburg for about 120 years, then they got called in against me through a third party colonial war. Trust dropped to 55, once the war was over we re-allied. 2 months later they decided all my territory in Scandinavia was desired and they broke the new alliance and became hostile. I guess the new system is okay but trust seems to be irrelevant and you can't trust (no pun intended) any alliance to stay stable. But I guess highlighting provinces is nice? Palleon fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 11:54
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Guildencrantz posted:Does forming countries prevent you from getting CN achievements? (For Odin, specifically) Doesn't For Odin require you to form Scandinavia
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Dec 17, 2015 12:28
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No you just have to own all the provinces in the Scandinavian region.
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Dec 17, 2015 12:31
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VDay posted:No you just have to own all the provinces in the Scandinavian region. And British Isles. And convert them all to Norse religion. Thinking about alliances more, to the Paradox people here, is there any way to make allies (or very recent ex allies as happened in my case) be much less likely to want your provinces or take missions that would cause the alliance to break if trust is past a threshold? It seems a lot of the problems people have had is the AI seemingly ignoring trust and making you a rival/enemy as soon as you fit in a slot or they want something, but it seems like if you're best buds, they should be far more willing to abstain. I would go so far as to say that if relations/trust is particularly high between nations, they shouldn't even be eligible to be selected as a rival. And if that is how it works, well, some additional insight would be appreciated.
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Dec 17, 2015 14:55
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The AI should only declare things of vital interest if it's like Russia declaring all Russian provinces vital.
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Dec 17, 2015 14:58
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I think I'm just starting to feel like Eu4 is taking too many extra things on. Like the UI is running out of little nooks and crannies to effectively display all of this information and provide a meaningful way to interact with the new things. So I end up really liking the new features that are modifications to the core functions of eu4, like the new fort system came in and that was cool, war is a centerpiece of eu4. The new diplomatic interaction stuff from Cossack: cool, ok, diplomacy is a core function in eu4. But then estates is just this new thing off to the side. But it doesn't feel like it's a core part of the game while still being pretty important. I have to keep this tab on my country menu open off to be side more often than I have to look at any of the other tabs, or try to decipher he new map mode etc. I guess my favorite eu4 expansions are ones that are more along the lines of "here's a cool new way that we are dramatically changing up an existing feature" rather than "here's this entirely new thing", as nice as it may be.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:11
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estates are dumb, there, I said it
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Dec 17, 2015 16:18
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:estates are dumb, there, I said it you have autism estates are fine
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Dec 17, 2015 16:24
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Estates aren't good.
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Dec 17, 2015 16:40
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Kersch posted:I think I'm just starting to feel like Eu4 is taking too many extra things on. Like the UI is running out of little nooks and crannies to effectively display all of this information and provide a meaningful way to interact with the new things. I am pointing out the above because I was starting to feel the same way about EU4 and thats how I was looking at estates. It is really tough to balance so I'm not trying to be critical here. They do give you something to do in peacetime, much more than before, but at the same time they require work and the RNG can still gently caress you. I worry estates will take away from the fun of the game by giving me more to manage without adding too much meaningful actual gameplay. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 17:04
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I'm running a custom nation with a random new world (I'm in the old world) but for some reason Australia is not a colonial region anymore and a lot of the time when I'm searching for new world native countries or provinces the map centers in at the middle of the new world area at the upper map edge instead of the proper place.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:05
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^^ yup both of those happened for me too. Kersch posted:I think I'm just starting to feel like Eu4 is taking too many extra things on. Like the UI is running out of little nooks and crannies to effectively display all of this information and provide a meaningful way to interact with the new things. I pretty much feel the opposite. I think the UI clutter is a big growing problem but estates successfully buck the trend and manage to be a core feature that's fluidly integrated into everything and fills a huge hole in the game. needs some balancing though Koramei fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 17:05
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Poil posted:a lot of the time when I'm searching for new world native countries or provinces the map centers in at the middle of the new world area at the upper map edge instead of the proper place. once you're on the new world tile click the go-to again. yeah it's real dumb.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:09
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kharaa posted:once you're on the new world tile click the go-to again. yeah it's real dumb.
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Dec 17, 2015 17:21
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Project Qing is over the hump: It's now just a question of deciding when to push the button and lose my "cavalry stack of death" superpower and gain permanent claims on all of China.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:09
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Portuguese Mexico fought an independence war against Portugal. When Portugal won, they took provinces from Portuguese Mexico, which were immediately returned. The AI has gone insane this patch.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:20
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Antti posted:Project Qing is over the hump: The correct answer is never (or at least not until you tire of the game and want to pick up the cheevo). Just Tribal Conquest everyone, burn everything, and laugh your way to being way ahead in tech. Horde life best life. e: Although I guess you would get to be sweet orange buddies with Bukhara. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 19:35
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I do want the cheevo at some point, yeah.
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Dec 17, 2015 19:38
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Yashichi posted:Portuguese Mexico fought an independence war against Portugal. When Portugal won, they took provinces from Portuguese Mexico, which were immediately returned. The AI has gone insane this patch. I've seen AI Sweden demand provinces from Denmark in a war and then remain under PU.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:13
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Larry Parrish posted:I've seen AI Sweden demand provinces from Denmark in a war and then remain under PU. That makes sense, though. Demanding provinces from your own colonial nation means they just get the province back after the war.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:19
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Yashichi posted:Portuguese Mexico fought an independence war against Portugal. When Portugal won, they took provinces from Portuguese Mexico, which were immediately returned. The AI has gone insane this patch. The entire AI has gone insane... ooor the calculation of one variable in the really complex peace AI fails for one specific case. I just don't know which is more likely!
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Dec 17, 2015 20:24
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Koramei posted:I pretty much feel the opposite. I think the UI clutter is a big growing problem but estates successfully buck the trend and manage to be a core feature that's fluidly integrated into everything and fills a huge hole in the game. Yeah, the UI is getting cramped, not that that's easy to fix. UI design is almost always the hardest part. More upsetting is that parts of it just take forever to load; I'm in the late 1700s in my game, and I just don't deal with trade any more, because when I select the trade map mode, the game hangs up for like 5 seconds. What it's doing in 1700 that it's not doing in 1444 I have no idea. But Estates are useful and good.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:25
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Perhaps opinions on Estates might differ a bit depending on what you want out of the game, rather than there being an objectively correct Good or Nongood stance? Most people seem to like them, but they *are* a bit of a divergence from the earlier War focused theme of the game, so it's to be expected everyone won't love them.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:30
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah, the UI is getting cramped, not that that's easy to fix. UI design is almost always the hardest part. Calculating the effect of everyone dickering around in the new world when previously there was nothing I guess?
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Dec 17, 2015 20:31
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Yashichi posted:That makes sense, though. Demanding provinces from your own colonial nation means they just get the province back after the war. You could kind of say the peace treaty was actually "Okay you drat Americans can have independence but we get to keep concessions in New England and Georgia" or something? As with EU3 it's always kind of a glaring omission that you can't have peace deals where both sides give and take, so you could say make them accept a purchase of a province for a nominal fee (and get lower AE for it maybe?) or to say that yes, whilst we do get these three provinces, we accept that South Buttland is your territory and will cede it. But the War Score system would make that kind of thing really really really difficult to implement so I can't say I fault the game here. fake edit; hey I just re-read your post and found I had misread it the first time! Great job me. I'll leave this up though.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:40
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What happens if the HRE has no electors? I'm Sweden, and I've got five of the electors as vassals. If I snag the last two and then revoke them all, does the HRE vanish or do I become a forever Kaiser?
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Dec 17, 2015 20:46
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It's fun to stomp around somewhere where this won't cause a massive coalition on your rear end: 
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Dec 17, 2015 20:48
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Wiz posted:Perhaps opinions on Estates might differ a bit depending on what you want out of the game, rather than there being an objectively correct Good or Nongood stance? Most people seem to like them, but they *are* a bit of a divergence from the earlier War focused theme of the game, so it's to be expected everyone won't love them. I think a lot of it is teething troubles. Until you realise just how valuable gaining permanent loyalty is with an estate, it's very easy to pick badly on choices that involve them.
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Dec 17, 2015 20:53
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Wiz posted:Perhaps opinions on Estates might differ a bit depending on what you want out of the game, rather than there being an objectively correct Good or Nongood stance? Most people seem to like them, but they *are* a bit of a divergence from the earlier War focused theme of the game, so it's to be expected everyone won't love them. Perhaps. But even if you want to play this as a pure map painting game, Estates are pretty easy to ignore, but give sweet bonuses if you micromanage them even a little bit. Strange to me that people will happily micro their armies super hard, but would be upset at having to interact with Estates every few months. Gort posted:I think a lot of it is teething troubles. Until you realise just how valuable gaining permanent loyalty is with an estate, it's very easy to pick badly on choices that involve them. This is certainly true. I had no idea the event based 'lose/gain 10 loyalty' events were permanent until someone here pointed it out; my assumption was they'd expired like influence modifiers do. Once you know that it makes way more sense. Arrhythmia posted:Calculating the effect of everyone dickering around in the new world when previously there was nothing I guess? Well there's not really that many more provinces or nodes relative to the old world. I mean I'd sort of expect it to have a general slowing effect as the game went on, because there's just more of everything, but I don't understand why the trade map-mode takes so long to open, since all of those computations are being made every month anyway. And it takes my game way longer to open the trade map than to process a month turn over. Von Humboldt posted:What happens if the HRE has no electors? I'm Sweden, and I've got five of the electors as vassals. If I snag the last two and then revoke them all, does the HRE vanish or do I become a forever Kaiser? You become forever-Kaiser, barring the general conditions that prevent someone from being Emperor (non-Christian, female ruler with no pragmatic sanction, Republic without heriditary rule). PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 20:54
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Wiz posted:Perhaps opinions on Estates might differ a bit depending on what you want out of the game, rather than there being an objectively correct Good or Nongood stance? Most people seem to like them, but they *are* a bit of a divergence from the earlier War focused theme of the game, so it's to be expected everyone won't love them. Other non-war parts of the game such as colonizing, trade, HRE elector politics feel totally different from estates though. You can ignore those three and play the game without penalty. Obviously you miss out on great benefits from tariffs, trade income, and emperor bonuses, but you still get to go on your merry way just playing a map painting war game. My desire with estates is just that there's eventually an additional "completely ignore estates at a slight cost" strategy.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:01
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You pretty much can, can't you? Just revoke all their provinces. They don't give you something hugely painful like the legitimacy hit parliaments give you. Yeah you get the maluses, but if you're ignoring trade in the same way, you're practically taking a big malus from that too. e: I totally agree that loyalty being permanent should be a bit clearer, I think a lot of people have brought that up as something they were confused by. PittTheElder posted:Well there's not really that many more provinces or nodes relative to the old world. I mean I'd sort of expect it to have a general slowing effect as the game went on, because there's just more of everything, but I don't understand why the trade map-mode takes so long to open, since all of those computations are being made every month anyway. And it takes my game way longer to open the trade map than to process a month turn over. The money that gets pushed through the trade nodes in the early game compared to the late game is like night and day. Countries get ideas and modifiers, more merchants, the provinces get developed, they get manufactories and markets, trade ships are around in much higher numbers, Europeans get going and start pushing stuff all the way across the world from Asia. Even though there are way fewer tags by the end of the game, each one is interacting with it with the power of like a 10 tags from the early game. Koramei fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 17, 2015 |
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Dec 17, 2015 21:05
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Basically I want to set up a monthly direct deposit into wiz's bank account and then have him keep tweaking war/units/leaders/combat endlessly
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Dec 17, 2015 21:06
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Koramei posted:You pretty much can, can't you? Just revoke all their provinces. They don't give you something hugely painful like the legitimacy hit parliaments give you. Yeah you get the maluses, but if you're ignoring trade in the same way, you're practically taking a big malus from that too. It's possible I'm only seeing the extremes so far. I've only done two games since estates expansion. One was a disaster and the other was a cakewalk. I'm definitely not an expert on this expansion yet
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Dec 17, 2015 21:13
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I do like estates, but I also agree they feel a bit... jerry-rigged(?) and hidden away under sub-tab 9c. A lot of the new systems are like that. They're cool, but somehow they almost feel like they're modded on top of a base game and UI that doesn't quite fit. I really hope that in EUV they seriously consider adding in a basic pop system of some sort. It doesn't have to be crazy like V2 and would let the game do things in a more powerful and understandable way. But right now I feel like EU has all these weird mixed systems to represent the non-war populace stuff. You've got old stuff like stablity which I think is a holdover from the boardgame, provinces that have a unitary culture/religion that can flip to completely different ones in months, stuff like Estates balanced on top, etc etc. EUIV was very much built on and evolved from EUIII, and the DLC keeps piling more stuff in, and it's great... but I really do feel it could be vastly improved if for V they step back and rebuild/reenvision a lot of the core systems from scratch. Of course, I also want a basic character system for monarchs/generals/great figures in V. EU should steal all the best bits (pops/characters) from the more focused games.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:16
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In ~20 hours of play since Cossacks I've not once been unable to manage estates and avoid disaster. 60% of the time I am getting good bonuses from 2/3 estates and the rest of the time all three. And maybe once every few decades an estate will teeter near 30% loyalty or 80% influence but an event either comes along that let's me buy them back to friendly status, or I clip off one of their provinces and sit at low loyalty for a few years. Clergy and Nobles also give insane local bonuses to the provinces you give them so if you plan carefully you can get even more value out of them. This is all while I am regularly hitting up estates for goodies like ministers and monarch points and that sweet sweet cash
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Dec 17, 2015 21:31
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PittTheElder posted:Perhaps. But even if you want to play this as a pure map painting game, Estates are pretty easy to ignore, but give sweet bonuses if you micromanage them even a little bit. Strange to me that people will happily micro their armies super hard, but would be upset at having to interact with Estates every few months. I know you weren't talking to me directly but I hate microing my armies too lol. I was very happy when the locked movement thing happened because it meant the AI actually walked to predictable places instead of vibrating across the map until they sieged things. I used to have to carefully do earlygame wars at 1x speed just so I could actually fight a battle against a single other power and not get sieged. Even clicking +autonomy after a war annoys the gently caress out of me and I frequently forget to do it. The only micro I want to do outside of PVP war is colonists and diplomats.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:33
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I don't mind the new estate system, but for me it suffers from the same problem as the faction system; I basically set it to one group and forget about it forever. The new trust system, however, needs some work, especially in relation to alliances. I mean in my most recent game, I allied a country with ~25 trust, then increased it after accumulating enough favours, and then my ally cancelled the alliance for lack of trust. Also, I think there should be global gains or losses for trust; if your country reliably answers calls to war, other countries should take note and reward you, whereas if you are seen constantly ignoring them you should be globally punished. Maybe tie it to Defender of the Faith to start with; if you answer a DoF call, you gain trust with everyone of that religion, or vice versa if you don't. This would maybe make me think of taking DoF just for the morale and missionary only and just rebuying it everytime I ignore a call to arms. 
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Dec 17, 2015 21:34
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just managed my first ever vassal swarm game as Austria. Always gotten really frustrated with the constant internal warring to pop out HRE princes that I give up. The reform that disables internal HRE wars was so relaxing oh my god. Could finally stop beating up my squabbling children and go smash up Poland and Ottomans. Managed to revoke the privilegia by 1645. League wars never happened, only 3 reform centers popped up in HRE and I destroyed them by 1590~, converted everyone back thru forcing religion by like 1620 or so except Lubeck and Brandenburg. Very fun. Not sure what to play next.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:48
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Well my last Re-reconquista run ended in tears when everyone declared on me at the same time, this one though is actually not going horribly. Yet. By 1540 I had one province and was bankrupt, then I managed to get away from Portugal and Castile somehow and conquer a bunch of Indians. The plan is to expand North and South before Portugal figures out what's up, and then claw my way back. Just waiting for the next disaster to strike, and I still haven't managed to Westernize 
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Dec 17, 2015 21:54
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Wiz posted:The entire AI has gone insane... ooor the calculation of one variable in the really complex peace AI fails for one specific case. I just don't know which is more likely! That was clearly meant as a scathing critique of the game and not a weird thing I found funny. Real feedback, I think the AI is incorrectly assuming coalition members will join when not using the coalition CB. I had Austria declare a conquest war on me instead of coalition, and they had about a quarter of my army size and didn't call any allies.
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Dec 17, 2015 21:56
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