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Just got back and need time to process, but I think Kylo Ren might be the worst Star Wars villain of all time. Every time he went on an impotent lightsabering spree I was in stitches, and the fact that he gets punked by two people who have never used a lightsaber for more than five minutes was equally comical. And if you want a  I'm so conflicted make a prequel about the dude and put it there, because it sure as hell undermines how threatening he is. Plus, don't tell us that he's Han Solos son that early. Hell, reveal it during That Scene. Best character is, clearly, Finn. And Jesus Carrie Fisher loves them cigarettes. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 06:41
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The canon says that the New Republic and the Empire signed a peace treaty. So I'm guessing the Resistance is like a militant group the Republic is not officially endorsing but everyone knows they are?
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Dec 18, 2015 06:43
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Jewel Repetition posted:I am a fan of rhyming, it's just that there can be too much. How in the world would you resolve Rey's desire to reunite with her family otherwise? I guess you could just skate over the issue of who her parents were and why they left her behind and focus on her new adoptive family, but that seems like a really big aspect of her character to ignore. And if we do find out that her parents are both totally new characters, then what's the point of us finding out? We don't care about those people. No, Rey is Luke's daughter, and we'll learn more about who her mother is and what happened to her later on. For the guy who said it, I agree, there should be more politicking in this movie. e: Now that I think about it, maybe the insane fan theory that Rey's mom is the star of Rogue One might actually be right.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:43
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lelandjs posted:Movie was fantastic, my only real complaint were the conveniences of Han and Chewie showing up immediately (I mean, I get that they would rush over to hijack the Falcon as soon as the beacon activated or whatever but there really needed to be a bit of breathing room) and R2D2 reactivating right at the end (though their are two reasonable explanations that I've seen--one is that Luke didn't want to risk Han tracking down Luke because Kylo was probably monitoring Han through the Force but that risk was gone after his death; the other is that BB-8 was all "drat Rai is a super badass Jedi and she needs to get trained by Luke stat" (but, y'know, worded better)) Kylo Ren being a giant, goony rear end in a top hat is probably the best part of the movie for me. It felt like a Space Wizard version of Adam Driver's character from Girls and I hope that's what got him the part.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:45
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Thanks for the responses on Kylo Ren! Looks like two people really like him and one person thinks he's terrible. I'll take either of those over the bland and boring villain I was expecting.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:46
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Best response on the imdb forums so far: "Hayden gets bashed for his acting yet Fisher can't cry."
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Dec 18, 2015 06:46
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Cat4Tumbleweed posted:As someone who's planning on seeing the movie tomorrow night, reading this thread is like walking through a minefield. He's a big edgelord but he's not boring in the least. If you're expecting a cheap Vader knockoff then you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:47
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Vanderdeath posted:This sums up how I feel about it. I definitely liked parts of it, like Rey and Finn, but it felt like it was just checking off boxes. This is also the first time I wish a Star Wars movie had just a little more politicking going on. I have little to no idea how the First Order or Republic even operate. This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. No one wants senate scenes and trade tariffs but in the OT it's very clear you have the small ragtag Rebellion against the monolithic evil Empire that controls the galaxy. Now 30 years later we still have some star wars going on but I have no idea what the sides are or what they are fighting over. Does the Republic control most of the galaxy and the First Order are just the hangers-on of the Empire? Are things largely peaceful aside from scattered First Order activity or is the galaxy in shambles after 30 years of these factions pushing back and forth? I'm sure someone will refer me to a book or something but I wish the movie was more clear about the current state of the star war.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:52
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MoaM posted:Best response on the imdb forums so far: "Hayden gets bashed for his acting yet Fisher can't cry." his acting would have been fine if the movie around him didnt suck
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Dec 18, 2015 06:52
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I called it. Kyle Ren is Zuko.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:52
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I found Ren to be one of the best parts. Him being so obsessed with being the next Darth Vader, but ultimately being an ineffectual punk who literally throws temper tantrums and gets his rear end handed to him by two kids with no lightsaber combat training, was a nice twist on the villain formula and in the end made him more interesting than a lot of big movie villain's as of late. It'll be interesting to see where they take his character in the upcoming films.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:54
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Never been impressed with Abrams, had lost all faith in the series, sick to death of all the licensed bullshit everywhere for the last few months, etc. Movie owned. Only complaints were the dumb tentacle monsters, the way too on the nose Nazi scene, not enough Oscar Isaac and the big bad's name sucks (Snoke) and sounds like some Harry Potter poo poo. Seriously, it was great.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:54
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CJ posted:He's a big edgelord but he's not boring in the least. If you're expecting a cheap Vader knockoff then you'll be pleasantly surprised. That's explicitly what he is, though: a boring Vader knockoff. Thing is, I'm not sure if we're supposed to see that or not. There's no point where he feels menacing to Our Heroes. He tries to get BB8, can't, has hissy fit. He tries to get info out of Reys brain, can't, has hissy fit and runs to his boss. Tries to kill two folks in lightsaber combat, can't. Edit: vvv I don't think we're disagreeing, just saying it differently. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 06:55
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MisterBibs posted:That's explicitly what he is, though: a boring Vader knockoff. Not really. He wants to be a boring Vader knockoff but fails spectacularly at every aspect of it.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:57
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RBA Starblade posted:Oh gotcha, I misunderstood what Space Turbohitler was saying. There was definitely a line in there about how their fleet exploded and thus couldn't help out though. I'm pretty sure the line was that they couldn't get the fleet to show up in time before the countdown would finish.
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Dec 18, 2015 06:57
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Movie owned. Yeah it loving did
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Dec 18, 2015 06:57
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MisterBibs posted:That's explicitly what he is, though: a boring Vader knockoff. That's why he's interesting though. It plays on the audience's expectations because he's literally a Vader wannabe. He was fine when he could put on his mask and go round beating up old men and intimidate people with force tricks but when push came to shove he got shown up for what he really was. He can now go and train to be a real Sith while Rey trains to be a Jedi and their next encounter will be exciting. It's probably the most interesting way you can do the villain for a Star Wars movie that hasn't been done already. Also i was replying to a guy who hasn't seen the movie yet so didn't want to spoil anything for him so i was being a bit cryptic. He is a Vader wannabe but not in the way you would expect, so spoiler tag that stuff.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:02
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There's a badass shot during the one battle of Finn shooting at Stormtroopers, then it pans up to follow an X-Wing dogfighting with a TIE Fighter and then pans down again for more ground fighting. It was a "wow" moment for me.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:03
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Bran Loghair posted:I'm pretty sure the line was that they couldn't get the fleet to show up in time before the countdown would finish. That's strange because everyone else could get anywhere they wanted in under 5 seconds with the new hyperdrives.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:05
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I didn't actively hate this movie like ST09 but I didn't fall in love either. It was just ok. Marvel movie ok.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:06
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Mahoning posted:There's a badass shot during the one battle of Finn shooting at Stormtroopers, then it pans up to follow an X-Wing dogfighting with a TIE Fighter and then pans down again for more ground fighting. It was a "wow" moment for me. Yeah that was like the best scene in the movie and cemented the pilot as Extreme Badass for me.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:11
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Mahoning posted:There's a badass shot during the one battle of Finn shooting at Stormtroopers, then it pans up to follow an X-Wing dogfighting with a TIE Fighter and then pans down again for more ground fighting. It was a "wow" moment for me. That was a "wow" moment for Finn too - which I loved. He basically shouted "holy poo poo" at that point. I loved the hell out of this movie and want Episode VIII RIGHT GODDAMN NOW.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:15
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I was conflicted when I left the theater, but now that I've had time to digest, I'm satisfied. Movie is great, with a few issues. Kylo Ren is loving amazing. His wannabe Vader mentality and being incomplete and ineffective in the end was really great. I have a theory regarding the Resistance and the New Republic - I think that the New Republic is actually the remnants of the Empire proper, and the First Order is an offshoot of it. The "New Republic" is actually what the Resistance is resisting, unless I missed something about them being aligned. Leia references not having the "fleet" to pick them up and evacuate, but I didn't catch anything specifically about them being aligned. The First Order seems laughably small and incapable of protecting their superweapon from two dozen X-Wings. Snoke is stupid. My money is on ancient Sith alien or Emperor clone. Probably the head of the New Republic. Poe and Finn are bros for lyfe - and their whole relationship is loving awesome. A guy in our viewing said that he recognized the pilot helmet that Rey puts on while on Jakku, and that he thinks it is Wedge. I googled it when I got home and disagree, but I did think that the helmet was very familiar. Ok, here's a bunch of side notes in a stream of consciousness, I thought the ending was poo poo. Should have ended after they returned from Starkiller Base, or cut the scene with the tentacle monsters and give us 5 minutes of dialogue with Luke. That whole sequence with the tentacle monsters was garbage. Rey being super saiyan out of the gate was kind of dumb, but whatever. Rey is 100% Luke's daughter. The flashback with the lightsaber puts her in his shoes at the betrayal with the Knights of Ren, and she sees herself being deposited on Jakku presumably after Ren murders her mother and forces Luke into hiding. Max Von Sydow's character was pointless and should have been Wedge, Mon Mothma, Lando, Sio Bibble, whatever... That was the perfect opportunity for fan service, and they didn't take it. MIssed opportunity. Finn finding Luke's sparring droid in the Falcon was a neat easter egg. Chewie going apeshit after Han bites it was awesome. The lack of ships other than "fancy X-Wing" and "fancy Tie fighter" was glaring. Phasma was underused - and considering she is directly responsible for the destruction of yet another superweapon, if she's still aligned with the First Order in the next movie, and not on the run, it will be an enormous mistake. Finn resisting his programming is a really neat idea, and I think he was a great protagonist, though I found him to be the weakest among the new cast. BB8 is adorable, thumbs up. Some of the CGI was bad. The 3D was really extra bad (I normally like 3D, even when done shoddily, but I found it to be exceptionally jarring. Adam Driver is loving awesome, and I'm excited to see what he does in the next two films, though if it's a redemption arc, I will be bummed. I like the idea that he's actively suppressing the light-side feelings he has, it's a neat reversal. I didn't like that Luke sat this one out. Especially if he feels responsible in a way for Ren. In Empire, he leaves to save Han and Leia, even though Yoda warns him that he's playing right into the Emperor's hand, because Luke knows he HAS to go save Han and Leia. But he pulls a disappearing act (presumably abandoning his daughter) because he made a crappy apprentice? Something else has to be going on here, otherwise Luke going into hermitage makes no sense whatsoever. Even if he didn't have a premonition about his nephew destroying a half dozen planets in one swing, as soon as it happened, you get your rear end to Starkiller base and you gently caress that poo poo up. Crazy theory, what if Luke has lost his connection to the force? He's neutered, and now that Rey is around, he can train her to act as his proxy. I'm really tired. I got in line at 7:30am this morning and stood around all day. I had a great time in line, and a great time in the movie, even though it felt really rushed and a little too familiar. I don't feel the urgent need to see it again in theaters, though I definitely will soon. I don't know, good movie, but definitely some shortcomings. It's a JJ joint. I'm excited for the next chapter. Also, did we know that Arndt kept his writing credit? Did he create some of the characters or something? I thought it was going to be a purely Kasdan/Abrams credit. Score was underwhelming, though I liked Rey's theme when she discovered her powers. Also, Greg Grunberg doesn't die? What the gently caress, JJ? Consistency, dude.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:22
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Just got back from the theater, way too safe and straightforward a take on A New Hope (presumably to rebuild good will and faith in the brand) but well-made and a good time at the movies. I'm more excited than before to see what Rian Johnson does with these characters. I'm legitimately unsure if I want Phasma to be more developed, or to be this trilogy's Boba Fett, an armored supposed-badass who has like three lines of dialogue before being thrown in the garbage.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:25
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Dexo posted:I feel kinda like you. Only I like the dynamic and the characters they've introduced. Hopefully the next movie doesn't feel the need to "HEY GUYS REMEMBER THIS FROM THE OG TRILOGY, HEH MILLENNIUM FALCON RIGHT" I think that sums up my feelings pretty well. Also, the ending of the move felt clunky too me, like a Russian symphony with seven different endings. But who are we kidding, I'm just chapped that they actually killed Han.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:26
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This movie was basically the exact opposite of the prequels. The prequels were plotted well, but were missing dynamic direction and acting and dialogue to make them entertaining - this was missing a plot that made any sense at all, but was entertaining along the way. It's essentially Start Trek 09 all over again. It was entertaining, but I kept scratching my head at what was happening over and over again while watching. I also realized that I didn't want to see the old characters at all, and would rather just follow the new people around. Han got far too much of a focus for me - I would have rather just followed the new crew around with a couple of background cameos.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:30
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Darko posted:This movie was basically the exact opposite of the prequels. The prequels were plotted well, but were missing dynamic direction and acting and dialogue to make them entertaining - this was missing a plot that made any sense at all, but was entertaining along the way. It's essentially Start Trek 09 all over again. It was entertaining, but I kept scratching my head at what was happening over and over again while watching. I had the same feeling. I loved Finn and Rey just as much as I used to love the OT characters.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:32
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The whole movie was a series of "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick."
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Dec 18, 2015 07:35
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These wildly different responses are fun to read.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:36
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One thing I totally don't get: What's the historical relationship between the Republic, First Order, and Resistance? No explanation I can come up with makes sense.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:37
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Oh, and lastly, when the Resistance shows up at the Pirate base, I got loving goosebumps. that was a very, very cool moment.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:41
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Jewel Repetition posted:One thing I totally don't get: What's the historical relationship between the Republic, First Order, and Resistance? No explanation I can come up with makes sense. The best theory people have come up with is that The First Order still holds some territory and the New Republic signed a treaty with them, but they fund the Resistance to fight the New Order under the table.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:43
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Finn is R2-D2.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:46
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Credits are rolling now. That was definitely a JJ movie. Not a perfect movie by any means but still really loving great. Rey was great, Finn was the most amazing part of the movie, I loved the touches of humor ("It's hard to understand you with the mask.") I think they were too reverential to the wrong things and didn't spend enough time on the Force and why it matters. On the other hand, Luke and his goddamn robot arm!!!! Oh my god!!!!! And Han is finally dead! Ford must be so happy. All in all a good movie and a great installment in the series.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:49
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CJ posted:That's why he's interesting though. It plays on the audience's expectations because he's literally a Vader wannabe. He was fine when he could put on his mask and go round beating up old men and intimidate people with force tricks but when push came to shove he got shown up for what he really was. He can now go and train to be a real Sith while Rey trains to be a Jedi and their next encounter will be exciting. It's probably the most interesting way you can do the villain for a Star Wars movie that hasn't been done already. That's the thing for me; I legitimately have no idea if we're supposed to treat Kylo Ren as a joke or not. I don't care if its him having a lightsaber hissy fit, complaining to Vader's helmet, or crying to his dad about being torn, they were all intensely comedic scenes and I'm reasonably sure I wasn't supposed to be.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:49
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Surprisingly low amount of complaints about fan service. I have to give credit to JJ for what may be the most esoteric nod ever: "Have you seen the new BT-17?" Also not a lot of talk about Rey seemingly skirting the dark side by the end of the duel.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:51
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I liked it, but not as much as I should. I don't know if it is because GBS spoiled some plot points in a loving topic name (I don't know why I go into that subforum occasionally), or that it is the same basic plot as ANH, right down to a NotDeathstar. One thing that is done well are the characters. Everyone had great chemistry, including the old star wars crew. That ultimately made it worth it to me.
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Dec 18, 2015 07:56
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing for me; I legitimately have no idea if we're supposed to treat Kylo Ren as a joke or not. I don't care if its him having a lightsaber hissy fit, complaining to Vader's helmet, or crying to his dad about being torn, they were all intensely comedic scenes and I'm reasonably sure I wasn't supposed to be. You mean the scene where They literally had a comic relief moment of the stormtroopers hearing the tantrum and turning the other way You had a hard time understanding how you are supposed to take Kylo? I don't think you were paying attention. In a film with quite a few things I liked, Kylo and the way he is played is one of my favorites.
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Dec 18, 2015 08:01
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MisterBibs posted:That's the thing for me; I legitimately have no idea if we're supposed to treat Kylo Ren as a joke or not. I don't care if its him having a lightsaber hissy fit, complaining to Vader's helmet, or crying to his dad about being torn, they were all intensely comedic scenes and I'm reasonably sure I wasn't supposed to be. I think he's supposed to be pathetic and ridiculous on a lot of levels, which is why the first scene in which he's introduced features Poe making fun of his stupid helmet, but still a dangerous character to everybody around him including himself. Like a bratty toddler with a loaded gun. It worked for me, and at worst I'd describe it as better than Anakin in the prequels.
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Dec 18, 2015 08:04
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I liked it a lot. The new cast has great chemistry and it was a very fun and funny movie. If I had to complain about something the film didn't feel very 'epic'. Everything happens so fast and on a smaller scale. Also the villain CGI monster voldemort looking guy was terrible. I feel the movie wouldve been better without it. Just have Kylos motivation be some Vader envy or something.
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Dec 18, 2015 08:08
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