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teagone posted:To anyone who would use the words "pathetic" and "useless" to describe Kylo Ren, are you invoking those descriptors of his character because you feel bad for him? Why am I reading him as tragic and brooding instead? His methods were mostly effective, and I found him to be terrifying and aggressive.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:04
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I'm likely just delirious at this point, but for some reason I equated calling him "pathetic" as like him being ineffective as a villain, which he clearly was not imo. When you relate it to his emotional state, then yeah, that makes sense and I totally agree. Despite being a petulant manchild, I still found him to be loving scary though. I suppose it's that unhinged unpredictability he has that makes him a hard rear end mother fucker to me. I also found it oddly satisfying how he would continually hit his blast wound during the final duel for some reason. [edit] Lunchmeat Larry posted:He takes longer to beat Finn - a non-Jedi - in a swordfight than baton trooper guy did, and as soon as Rey stops making GBS threads herself and embraces the force she casually kicks his rear end in about two minutes. He's minutes away from emotional breakdown in just about every scene. He's scary in a school-shooter kind of way - he has power through sheer violence and circumstances, but he's not powerful. I wouldn't say useless, but pathetic, absolutely. Really good character. I don't why I'm making a case for Kylo Ren but I am, haha. I still think it should be noted that he's still a student of the Force himself; Snoke has yet to complete his training. Give Finn some credit too. I mean, the guy is a soldier who was trained to fight since birth. He is also likely Force sensitive. Kylo Ren was also severely debilitated during his duel with Finn and Rey, so surely that was a factor to him getting beaten. teagone fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 13:08
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My take on Ren: He's a tool. To me its kind of clear that the First Order keeps him around mainly because he's bait for the leaders of the Resistance because he's Leia's son. The Admiral dude simply hated him and had no qualms about constantly calling him out on his poo poo. Further, aside from possessing impotent rage, the only thing he seems to have on everybody else is that he has the force. That's it. Once he comes up against Rey, even though she's untrained, his powers become worthless. He can't read her mind and she even schools him in combat. He's a lackey who's propped up by a few kind (not genuine) words from Snoke and his own sense of self importance. Also I liked that his dumb saber was used against him by Rey in the final fight (I think she pushed the cross-guard part into his knee at one point.) I also have a theory about Rey: I think she's Luke's kid. We know Luke hosed up with trying to restart the Jedi and then exiled himself in order to prevent the Jedi from coming back. It would make sense if he left his daughter in a similar exile on a junk planet so that she's never found or trained as well. Also I think there was a reason Han liked her so much. Plus the lightsaber calling to her, and R2-D2 reactivating when she comes to the base
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Dec 18, 2015 13:19
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teagone posted:Give Finn some credit too. I mean, the guy is a soldier who was trained to fight since birth. Yeah, I think a lot of people are taking Finn's line about being a "janitor" as "they never taught me how to fight." He clearly knows how to fight.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:21
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TFA utterly owned. Kylo Ren was spectaclar as a villain and as a whiny out of control man-child with a vicious temper. The tantrums were amazing and really defined how much lack of control he really has. When he does have control, he's doing poo poo we have never seen - freezing the blaster bolt and the mind fucks were amazing, let alone how well he can throw things around, in all honestly this is really an elevation we see just how bad rear end a Force user actually can be, rather than sabre fighting and a few tricks. Despite his tantrums, to me he felt like if he kept it together he would gently caress. Your. poo poo. Up. and his tantrums were fearsome to get in the way of. A skinny Darth Vader wannabe with Daddy issues. Rey HAS to be Luke's daughter May not have been an orginal story (It's like poetry, it rhythms) but hol gently caress so much of this was on a completely new and brilliant level. Except the music, it was.... meh I suppose, all Star Wars but nothing remarkable. I have to see it again. WOW, the 8 year old kid who was mindblown when he first saw Star Wars would have been in disbelief at this one. JJ Abrams, you sure as hell showed Lucas how to make a movie.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:22
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Just a couple of other little bits... The ambient design of the film seems like it's quite influenced by the Special Editions, just done 'better'. It's pretty dense in places, and I remember seeing a little creature pop out of the sand when Rey is travelling in the desert. Felt a very Lucas thing to do, but because it was designed from the start none of it really interfered. When JJ said in that interview there wouldn't be any intentional light flares that was pretty funny, as there were about 5 in the first ten minutes alone. Doesn't bother me, and at least the main one was because they were shooting directly into the sun, but I'm surprised that hasn't had people moaning
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Dec 18, 2015 13:28
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:TFA utterly owned. Kylo Ren was spectaclar as a villain and as a whiny out of control man-child with a vicious temper. The tantrums were amazing and really defined how much lack of control he really has. When he does have control, he's doing poo poo we have never seen - freezing the blaster bolt and the mind fucks were amazing, let alone how well he can throw things around, in all honestly this is really an elevation we see just how bad rear end a Force user actually can be, rather than sabre fighting and a few tricks. Despite his tantrums, to me he felt like if he kept it together he would gently caress. Your. poo poo. Up. and his tantrums were fearsome to get in the way of. A skinny Darth Vader wannabe with Daddy issues. More Kylo chat: I think that's sort of the point, what he does looks amazing but there's not much affect to it (outside of the mind reading). Like its force pushing and flashy stuff, and I think that's to show off. In the OT Jedi were some sought of myth to most people, and in this movie its established to be even more of the case. The rank-and file soldiers and Resistance fighters would no doubt be scared of Kylo, but again, the senior staff don't give a poo poo. And as soon as he comes up against somebody else who has the force in them, he's almost humorously ineffective. edit: For the record I really enjoyed the movie, and I feel that Kylo being sort of a dunce made him a great character. Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 13:28
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All plot holes can be explained by episode I Anikan. "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"
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Dec 18, 2015 13:35
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Carnaticum posted:Further, aside from possessing impotent rage, the only thing he seems to have on everybody else is that he has the force. That's it. Once he comes up against Rey, even though she's untrained, his powers become worthless. He can't read her mind and she even schools him in combat. Snoke clearly sees potential in Ren, otherwise why take him in as an apprentice? And as mentioned earlier, Rey being able to outclass (a wounded) Kylo Ren is a testament to her being set up as something greater. This episode's namesake even refers to her, after all. Namaste posted:Yeah, I think a lot of people are taking Finn's line about being a "janitor" as "they never taught me how to fight." He clearly knows how to fight. Yep. He was assigned the position of space janitor only on the Starkiller base. It's not like he was trained to be a janitor, heh. teagone fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 13:35
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Bongo Bill posted:I just want to mention, for the record, that the Star Wars prequels are good too. I'm going to see this later tonight probably, is it worth the extra money for the 3D? Sorry for not reading the thread before asking for probably the 20th time but I'm trying not to pick up any more spoilers.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:48
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Rey HAS to be Luke's daughter This theory seems to come up a lot, but I think it's mainly because it's star wars and people expect it to happen rather than it making any sort of sense I just can't see Luke abandoning his daughter to debilitating poverty/slavery on a lovely planet; not when he could've left her pretty much anywhere else and made sure she was taken care of, like he himself was on the Lars family's moisture farm. That's not to say that her heritage isn't gonna be important later on, I just don't think she's Luke's daughter.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:52
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I hope Rey's lineage is from an entirely different family to be honest. I had previously thought she and Kylo Ren would be siblings from rumors, but was pleasantly surprised that was not the case.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:55
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MeLKoR posted:I'm going to see this later tonight probably, is it worth the extra money for the 3D? Sorry for not reading the thread before asking for probably the 20th time but I'm trying not to pick up any more spoilers. I saw it in 2D and had a blast. I couldn't see any particularly irritating bits of 3D trickery though, like the old "insect flies direct into the camera" thing that every single film uses. If you find 3D makes your focus weird - I do, it always seems like only the centre of the screen is focused in - skip it for the first viewing.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:56
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teagone posted:Snoke clearly sees potential in Ren, otherwise why take him in as an apprentice? And as mentioned earlier, Rey being able to outclass (a wounded) Kylo Ren is a testament to her being set up as something greater. This episode's namesake even refers to her, after all. I thought it was because having him around and placating him 1) stopped him from going back the Resistance/Republic and 2) Used him as a lure for Han and Leia and maybe even Luke. He has a purpose because of his parents, in that he's being used against them. And he's too full of anger at them to really see that. I think this comes out where its implied Snoke won't allow him to complete his training until he kills his father; he's been fully manipulated. Plus, his flashy force powers work well as a shock and awe tactic on the battlefield. Also, I don't deny there's the potential for him to be something greater, its just that I thought in this movie he's not the ultimate badass you'd expect. And I actually really like that e: me code good Animal Friend fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 13:57
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Movie was awesome. R2d2 came back to life because Luke's saber was near him.
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Dec 18, 2015 14:09
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The Walrus posted:Movie was awesome. R2d2 came back to life because Luke's saber was near him.
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Dec 18, 2015 14:16
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teagone posted:I hope Rey's lineage is from an entirely different family to be honest. I had previously thought she and Kylo Ren would be siblings from rumors, but was pleasantly surprised that was not the case. No goddamn way is she Luke's daughter, it's way too obvious. That's not the kind of twist that you save for the sequel, even Ren's parentage was kind of thrown out there without much fanfare. Her being related to Obi-Wan is more likely, I think, but if they actually want to surprise people (and I think they do) she's going to be something else entirely like a clone or a force ghost or some poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2015 14:19
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MeLKoR posted:I'm going to see this later tonight probably, is it worth the extra money for the 3D? Sorry for not reading the thread before asking for probably the 20th time but I'm trying not to pick up any more spoilers. How do you feel about 3D? If it's between 'not offensive' and 'love', then sure - go see it. The title crawl looks great in 3D I think, most of the shots that utilise it simply add depth and scale, and there's only one scene where anything pops out of the screen (a shot of a star destroyer) and it looked great. Glasses and eyes felt comfortable the whole time, which isn't always the case. We saw a trailer for that poo poo looking batman/superman film, and one of the 3D scenes on this is atrocious. There's no way it can go to cinema looking like it does, my eyes was wincing the entire time.
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Dec 18, 2015 14:22
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Carnaticum posted:I thought it was because having him around and placating him 1) stopped him from going back the Resistance/Republic and 2) Used him as a lure for Han and Leia and maybe even Luke. The First Order was already looking for Luke in the beginning and Kylo Ren falling to the dark side is what prompted Han and Leia to split. Don't think Snoke was using him as a lure, per se. Could totally see it as a preventative measure to keep Ben from becoming a powerful Jedi though. quote:He has a purpose because of his parents, in that he's being used against them. And he's too full of anger at them to really see that. I think this comes out where its implied Snoke won't allow him to complete his training until he kills his father; he's been fully manipulated. Hmm, yeah that could be. I definitely took Kylo Ren killing Han as a full transition to the dark side. The lighting visual cues, and Poe's Starkiller forshadowing "As long as there is still light, we will still have hope" lend credence to that. quote:Also, I don't deny there's the potential for him to be something greater, its just that I thought in this movie he's not the ultimate badass you'd expect. And I actually really like that His character design is definitely up there in the badass department, but yeah he also has really good characterization that I guess does subvert the typical "badass villain" trope. Despite that, I still think he's rad as gently caress  [edit] gently caress it, just going to stay up. Way too hyped to see this movie again in 2 hours. teagone fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 14:25
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Hakkesshu posted:No goddamn way is she Luke's daughter, it's way too obvious. That's not the kind of twist that you save for the sequel, even Ren's parentage was kind of thrown out there without much fanfare. There's no way Monz doesn't say all that stuff about the lightsaber and its Skywalker heritage without Rey being a Skywalker. Luke hid her on Jakku to keep her safe from Snoke. E: and anyway, you seriously think these self-referential fuckers would pass up the chance to have Luke say "I am your father"? Alternately, what are the odds Rey is Ren's daughter? howe_sam fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 15:01
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howe_sam posted:Alternately, what are the odds Rey is Ren's daughter? None out of zero?
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Dec 18, 2015 15:06
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:It was near him the first time they went to the rebel base, though, Finn had it. yeah but rey didn't have it and hes a force sensitive droid edit: I actually forgot about that but I still kind of think it has something to do with the saber, it's too coincidental otherwise
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Dec 18, 2015 15:11
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BrianWilly posted:Agh I totally forgot about the spoiler thread. I think I worked so hard on avoiding spoilers that I blocked the existence of that thread from my brain for a few weeks..
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Dec 18, 2015 15:11
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The Walrus posted:yeah but rey didn't have it and hes a force sensitive droid
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Dec 18, 2015 15:14
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I thought it was a really interesting choice how 'small' the movie was. It reminds you of ANH a lot in that way. Despite this being a galactic scale conflict, it's still just a ragtag group of fighters in a small corner of the galaxy, just like an old serial. I'm actually really excited to see how the EU expands on the world because there is a *ton* there to explore. God help me I'm going to buy at least one star wars book for the first time since i was 14.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:17
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I must be in the minority of not liking Darth Emo. Anyway, so Snoke. I'm interested in theories onto who he actually is. My friend has a theory that he's Palpatine, on the basis that his theme is a rearranged version of the Emperor's Theme (in the opposite way that Augie's Great Municipal Band was). My theory is that he's Darth Plagueis, based on what we know about him in the old canon fits the description of him. Which leads to the whole thing of how economical with the truth Palpatine was in the Opera scene in III. Part of me thinks that the story was a little too perfect, especially as Palpatine was spinning a classic operatic tragedy at the Opera (in a space opera). And the way Plagueis is described as dying seems a little… unfulfilling. He knows that Sith apprentices always turn on their masters, and he has control over the life and death by manipulating the
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Dec 18, 2015 15:18
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I like how everyone in this movie is very bad with a lightsaber. No better than your average Star Wars nerd with too much time on his hands.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:21
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hhhat posted:None out of zero? Probably so, that would be a little too much poetry.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:31
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I hope they really surprise people and make someone Death Stick Elan's daughter or something.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:45
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I don't think finn and rey will be romantically involved. yeah han gives finn romantic advice and they definitely hint at it, but in ANH that same tension existed between luke and leia. they're gonna be space bros.
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Dec 18, 2015 15:53
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The Walrus posted:I don't think finn and rey will be romantically involved. yeah han gives finn romantic advice and they definitely hint at it, but in ANH that same tension existed between luke and leia. they're gonna be space bros. Star Wars Episode VIII : The Friend Zone Strikes Back
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Dec 18, 2015 15:55
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I hope the twist is that Rey is just some rando with no connection to anyone.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:00
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TinTower posted:I must be in the minority of not liking Darth Emo. The wound on his head looks a lot like the one anakin had when Luke took his mask off and he looks like a burn ward resident. So clearly he lost a fight at some point. But bringing back Palpy from the dead seems a little too obvious. Clearly he's Boba Fett. Sarlacc's have a high pH in their tummies.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:02
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The Walrus posted:I don't think finn and rey will be romantically involved. yeah han gives finn romantic advice and they definitely hint at it, but in ANH that same tension existed between luke and leia. they're gonna be space bros.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:02
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I'm not seeing TFA until Sunday so I watched ESB last night instead. One thing I'd never really noticed before is that the pacing/scope of the plot seems really weird? Like, the Falcon storyline could seemingly take place over the course of a day or so, but Luke's on Dagobah for what seems like weeks or months. Were Han, Leia, Chewie and 3PO hanging out in that space worm's stomach for a long, long time? Did they set up shop and live on the side of the Star Destroyer for ages? Them hanging out in Bespin for a long time would make sense but then when Lando betrays them, he says the Empire showed up right before they did, so I doubt they'd wait too long before springing the trap. Did Luke just learn everything in like six hours?
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Dec 18, 2015 16:05
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Soul Glo posted:I'm not seeing TFA until Sunday so I watched ESB last night instead. They fly to Bespin without their hyperdrive, which takes a long time. But yeah, it could maybe have used a line explaining things—perhaps Han telling Leia to get comfortable because they'll be in transit for a few weeks or months.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:06
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Soul Glo posted:I'm not seeing TFA until Sunday so I watched ESB last night instead. They didn't have a hyperdrive, so it was supposed to be months.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:13
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Zoran posted:They fly to Bespin without their hyperdrive, which takes a long time. But yeah, it could maybe have used a line explaining things—perhaps Han telling Leia to get comfortable because they'll be in transit for a few weeks or months. Googling brings up other message boards talking about this question and this seems to be the prevailing theory with Luke getting two more years of training while Lando and Chewie track down Jabba. Yeah, it really could have used a line in the script indicating that.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:13
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Empire’s pacing is completely shot. At the time, sequels were generally drafted and made on the cheap, as they rarely made as much as the first film, so Empire was originally meant to take place entirely on one planet – after the beginning battle, Cloud City was in orbit over it, the Falcon was to land there for emergency repairs or whatever, and Luke crashed in Yoda’s swamp somewhere else on the surface. Obviously, episode 4’s success allowed them to expand it for the better, but it resulted in… some weirdness.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:20
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And welp, my office is taking our team to go see this movie later today. I feel kind of silly seeing it at midnight last night now. 
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Dec 18, 2015 16:24
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