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My guess is we're going to be getting some bad news from Wizards about continued support soon. I can always hope they'll make it free, since they've gone years without supporting the site and most browsers can't even load Silverlight at this point, but yeah that seems sensible so I doubt that.
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Dec 13, 2015 11:32
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At least the character builder is safe offline & that's the most important one. But I don't know of offline backups of any other parts of the compendium?
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Dec 13, 2015 14:38
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Yeah, 90% of the reason I still have a sub is for the compendium, and without it... 
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Dec 13, 2015 17:00
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I wonder if wizards thinks this will force people to play 5e?
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Dec 13, 2015 17:01
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Auralsaurus Flex posted:Both the compendium and monster builder should be able to handle that – if you have Insider. If you don't, this tool doesn't include any unique monsters (and probably has an incomplete list of sources), but can handle what you need otherwise. Thank you! This works well for my purposes.
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Dec 13, 2015 17:06
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There is a copy of the compendium if you look hard enough.
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Dec 13, 2015 17:07
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Mendrian posted:I wonder if wizards thinks this will force people to play 5e? Nah, if they thought that they would have done it two years ago. Probably the IT guy is being let go in the xmas layoffs and they won't be able to keep it running any more.
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Dec 13, 2015 17:10
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I could see it being both. If 5e is floundering they need to make cuts somewhere, and this is the "safest" cut to make in hopes it will help kill 4e for good and bring those fans in to buy 5e materials. EDIT: Alternately, this being WotC, it's probably more possible someone just hosed up royal and they'll never get around to fixing it, because they are one of the more pathetic companies out there in how they handle tech materials. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 18:05
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My experience a few days ago (while actually trying to play some 4e) was that they'd moved the server and done some redirects, and one of our players could access the redirect but the rest of us got a DNS failure. This is still happening to me, so it looks like they configured something funny and the DNS update is rolling out like a glacier. I don't know if all these tools that are having lookup failures will automatically pick up on the URL redirect once the change finally makes it to your networks. For compendium, I don't know what's looking up from where but there are probably some Masterplan  floating around.
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Dec 13, 2015 18:56
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thespaceinvader posted:Nah, if they thought that they would have done it two years ago.
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Dec 13, 2015 18:58
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Just a heads up; CBLoader still works but appears to be missing some of the errata. Was toying around with a rogue when I noticed Blinding Barrage suddenly did amazing damage before double checking.
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Dec 13, 2015 20:20
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ProfessorCirno posted:Just a heads up; CBLoader still works but appears to be missing some of the errata. Was toying around with a rogue when I noticed Blinding Barrage suddenly did amazing damage before double checking. Blinding Barrage is right on mine, might be your .part/combined files being screwy or out of date?
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Dec 13, 2015 20:29
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cbloader doesn't use ddi at all, so it shouldn't make any changes
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Dec 13, 2015 22:49
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Moriatti posted:Yeah, 90% of the reason I still have a sub is for the compendium, and without it... Same. Me and my pals like 4th ed but I can admit it would be kind of a pain in the dick to manage without the tools. We'd still play it over 5th (which has near zero character planning effort if you don't use spell lists) but... things would definitely be more of a headache on chargen and level ups, nevermind iem browsing.
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Dec 13, 2015 23:33
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ProfessorCirno posted:Just a heads up; CBLoader still works but appears to be missing some of the errata. Was toying around with a rogue when I noticed Blinding Barrage suddenly did amazing damage before double checking. If you installed the Zeitgeist custom rules set, that's one of the things that it accidentally modified when they added "firearms" to every rogue power that uses a crossbow..
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Dec 14, 2015 05:02
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LightWarden posted:If you installed the Zeitgeist custom rules set, that's one of the things that it accidentally modified when they added "firearms" to every rogue power that uses a crossbow.. Oh god dammit. Nevermind then!
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Dec 14, 2015 09:28
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Auralsaurus Flex posted:Both the compendium and monster builder should be able to handle that – if you have Insider. If you don't, this tool doesn't include any unique monsters (and probably has an incomplete list of sources), but can handle what you need otherwise.  Holy poo poo that elf is a seriously wall-eyed motherfucker. how did that piece of poo poo get used as cover art?
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Dec 14, 2015 19:03
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Because D&D Insider might be going to way of the dodo, and because most if not all the 4th Edition books are now available as legal and official PDFs in dndclassics, I wanted to try my hand at documenting what you might need to play a game of 4th Edition without DDI. Bare necessity: Player's Handbook 1 - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/161671/Players-Handbook-4e This covers everything that a player needs: races, classes, class powers and abilities, feats, basic sets of equipment and magic items, all player-facing rules for skill checks, adventuring and combat, and rituals. Bare necessity: Rules Compendium - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/121306/DD-Rules-Compendium-4e This covers most, but not all of what a DM needs to run the game. * A class-agnostic overview of what makes up a character, their powers, their abilities, and how to level them up * A basic overview of what makes up a monster * How to assign DCs to skill checks, and how run Skill Challenges. Importantly, the skill check DCs on page 126 of this book supersede previously published skill check DCs, such as in the Dungeon Master's Guide 1 * Adventuring and combat rules (redundantly covered in the PHB 1) * Equipment rules, but no equipment specifics. That's where the PHB 1 comes in * The absolute basics of building up an encounter according to the game's intended XP budgets * Rewards: XP, action points, and how to roll for and generate loot. Importantly, the loot generation in the Rules Compendium uses the Essentials model of randomly rolled loot, whereas 4e originally used a "set parcel" model. Again, the magic items list in the PHB 1 is what you can refer to whenever the random loot rolls tell you to generate a magic item. Bare necessity: The Monster Vault - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/158946/Dungeons--Dragons-Essentials-Monster-Vault-4e The Rules Compendium does not include any monsters in it. The Monster Vault fills in this gap. Critically, the Monster Vault has all of the "fixed math" that began with Monster Manual 3, but contains a more traditional variety of monsters and covers a better spread of levels, since MM3 was more geared towards high-level and more esoteric monsters. That's it. If you wanted the absolute minimum to play 4th Edition with, you can stop reading now and go with this. At this point, I want to mention the Dungeon Master's Guide - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/56694/Dungeon-Masters-Guide-4e This book covers a lot of topics: * How to run a game from an IRL perspective * How to be a GM, starting from a very basic, maybe-you've-never-GM'ed-before perspective * How to create combat encounters, including sets of monsters with interlocking roles that the Rules Compendium doesn't really cover * How to run adventures, either pre-made or homebrewed * How to build a world to run your homebrewed adventures in * How to run a campaign to string your adventures together * How to dole out parcel-based rewards (and this can supersede the Rules Cyclopedia's rolled loot model) * How to create monsters It even has a short dungeon adventure that you could immediately run a game with. It's a very comprehensive book that you could almost recommend as great general reading for GMs regardless of the game they're running because the advice is very practical, straightforward and easy to understand. It just has one critical flaw: most of the math dealing with the 4th Edition-specific mechanics is outdated. The Rules Compendium's skill check DC table replaces the one you'll find in this DMG, and the Monster Vault gives you a set of premade monsters, but if you ever wanted to make your own monsters, we're going to have to go farther afield. Replacing the DMG 1's Monster Creation Rules Part 1: The Monster Manual 3 on a Business Card - http://blogofholding.com/?p=512 This boils down the monster math used in Monster Manual 3 and every supplement thereafter to the single simple formula that you'll want to use if you're going to homebrew your own monsters. That said, it's almost too simple and leaves out a few key points: * The attack bonus for attacks that target Fort/Ref/Will defenses should be [3 + Level] (or 2 less than the attack bonus vs AC) * The hit point count might still be too high, as the author alluded to in a further follow-up: http://blogofholding.com/?p=782 . Personally, I use the HP counts calculated from this follow-up, but the downside is that it requires you to recalculate the HP of the monsters in the Monster Vault rather than making them plug and play * The card does not sufficiently cover how to create Elite and Solo monsters beyond simply inflating their HP. These details, such as giving them Encounter powers and Action Points, are covered in the DMG 1. Replacing the DMG 1's Monster Creation Rules Part 2: Damage value assignment - http://dmg42.blogspot.com.ar/2012/03/damage-adjustment-follow-up-nightmare.html The MM3 on a Business Card has a number for what the average damage of a monster should be, but it's just a flat number with no die rolls and no adjusting for roles and different kinds of attacks. The DMG 1 has a table and tells you how to use it: Medium damage expressions should be most At-Will attacks Low damage expressions should be for AOE attacks, melee attacks by Artillery monsters, and attacks by Controllers that also inflicts a status effect High damage expressions should be for Brute attacks and Lurker attacks that are triggered by their Lurky-ness Limited damage expressions should be for monster Encounter powers But as I said, the math in the DMG 1's table is outdated, such that those damage expressions aren't going to make your monster hit hard enough if you use them. This blog post fills that gap, giving you three levels of damage to choose from: * The reverse-engineered damage level in the Monster Manual 3 * Damage levels that keep the game/monsters roughly as deadly as it was in 1, rather than dropping off over time * Damage levels that make the game deadlier over time, expecting the players to make up the difference via tactics and character optimization At this point, we've managed to find resources that replaces all of the outdated math in the DMG 1 (and would also allow us to "fix" monsters from earlier Monster Manuals and supplements), and we can move on to other things to address 4th Edition's issues. The Feat Tax Supplements: Heroes of the Fallen Lands - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/156573/Player-Essentials-Heroes-of-the-Fallen-Lands-4e and Player's Handbook 3 - http://www.dmsguild.com/product/144597/Players-Handbook-3-4e The Heroes of the Fallen Lands has the Improved Defenses feat, which improves your Fort, Ref and Will defense by +1 at Heroic tier, +2 at Paragon tier, and +3 at Epic tier. This is necessary for those three stats to scale properly with the monsters as you rise in level. The Heroes of the Fallen Lands also has the Melee Training feat, which allows you to use a different ability modifier besides Strength when making Melee Basic Attacks, although only half of the ability modifier is added to the damage roll. This is important for any class/build that expects to be able to, at the minimum, make decent Opportunity Attacks. Player's Handbook 3 has the Versatile Expertise feat, which improves your attack rolls by +1 at Heroic tier, +2 at Paragon tier, and +3 at Epic tier. This, like Improved Defenses, is necessary for those stats to scale properly with the monsters as you rise in level. I'm including the sources of these feats for the sake of completeness, but technically if you're just filling out character sheets by hand then there's no real reason to need to own these books specifically just for one feat that really should have been errata in the first place. Just write down a +1 to your attack rolls, Fort, Ref, and Will at level 1 as you create the character, increase it to +2 at level 11, and then +3 at level 21, and make the necessary notations/changes to your Melee Basic Attack. The Inherent Bonus Supplement: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/129293/Dark-Sun-Campaign-Setting-4e This book has the rules for the Inherent Bonuses option in the Character Builder, which provides the "necessary for scaling" bonuses to the characters' attacks and defenses in order for you to be able to run a game without looking over your shoulder all the time over whether the players are getting as many magic items as they should be. The source is listed here for the sake of completeness, although the rule itself is small enough to be described below in full: quote:Attack and Damage – All characters gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls at 2nd, 7th, 12th, 17th, 22nd, and 27th level. When characters score a critical hit, they deal an extra 1d6 damage per +1 bonus to their attack rolls. All told, that's 35 dollars in PDFs for PHB 1, Rules Compendium and Monster Vault, another 10 dollars for the DMG, and 48 dollars if you also wanted to own the feat tax and inherent bonus supplements specifically. That should cover the basics. All other books would expand your class, power, feat and ability selections, or provide you premade adventures to run, or more items, or more monsters (that may need to be recalibrated if they were published earlier than MM3 on June 2010), but otherwise you could run entire 1 to 30 campaigns using just the books and rules mentioned herewith. EDIT: gradenko_2000 posted:While diving through the defense-scaling math, I realized that the PHB 2 (or either of the Heroes of/Essentials corebooks) is necessary for properly scaling armor pieces, since the one-per-tier armor list in the PHB 1 won't cut it. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2015 18:20
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That's a good post and dwarf74 should add it to the OP. Thanks for making it.
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Dec 19, 2015 18:45
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Hmmm oh jeez this looks like a bad time to make a 4E pbp game but just in case poo poo gets fixed what are the good houserules for it again? I remember asking this here a long rear end time ago but I forgot most of it already. I do remember something about: Free Melee Training Free Improved Defenses and Inherent Bonuses (something involving monster combat math fuckery?) What else?
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Dec 19, 2015 18:50
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A free Expertise feat.
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Dec 19, 2015 18:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:Because D&D Insider might be going to way of the dodo, and because most if not all the 4th Edition books are now available as legal and official PDFs in dndclassics, I wanted to try my hand at documenting what you might need to play a game of 4th Edition without DDI. The offline CB also has all the Magic Items, Spells, and Rituals added so far! So there is that as well!
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Dec 19, 2015 21:27
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Out of curiosity, did WOTC ever end up authorizing a 4e video game other than the awful one on PSP?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:02
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Falcon2001 posted:Out of curiosity, did WOTC ever end up authorizing a 4e video game other than the awful one on PSP? Not that I recall. I think there was some rights fuckery that prevented it early on, and late on there was no way the people in charge would have let it happen.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:05
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thespaceinvader posted:Not that I recall. I think there was some rights fuckery that prevented it early on, and late on there was no way the people in charge would have let it happen. That continues to be a real shame. 4e had problems, sure, but it had great combat and would have translated pretty well to a FFT-style game. Oh well.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:11
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There is Neverwinter online. Its not a great game. It puts a lot of names from 4th edition.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:24
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There basically hasn't been a good D&D game since Neverwinter Nights 1, and that's now so old that the server browser doesn't do anything.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:24
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Does XCOM count? 
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Dec 19, 2015 23:24
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:There basically hasn't been a good D&D game since Neverwinter Nights 1, and that's now so old that the server browser doesn't do anything.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:28
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Falcon2001 posted:Out of curiosity, did WOTC ever end up authorizing a 4e video game other than the awful one on PSP?
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Dec 20, 2015 01:48
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Conclave is a very 4e-esque game, and even goes one better by adapting it to a hex grid and allowing for asynchronous turns, though I'm not sure if there's a large active community or how much content there is.
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Dec 20, 2015 02:16
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The Crotch posted:Hey, now. Mask of the Betrayer is arguably worth learning how to build an epic-level 3.5 character for. And I hear DDO was pretty good but I never checked it out. MoTB is one of my favorite PCRpgs of all time
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Dec 20, 2015 02:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:Conclave is a very 4e-esque game, and even goes one better by adapting it to a hex grid and allowing for asynchronous turns, though I'm not sure if there's a large active community or how much content there is. I've never gotten past this one starting encounter (the trees I think?) I can find no way to avoid the enemy killing me first, because there simply aren't that many options to start with.
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Dec 20, 2015 04:56
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Lemon Curdistan posted:That's a good post and dwarf74 should add it to the OP. Thanks for making it.
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Dec 20, 2015 05:11
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If you're adding stuff to the op you might wanna put a link to either Enworld or the Gdrive with them for people on the player side!
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Dec 20, 2015 05:33
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I always feel so terribly bound to the encounter XP guidelines, but as yesterday's game proved once again, the single biggest factor in what makes a fight difficult is how smartly I play monsters. And I basically have only two modes for them as it is. "Attack nearest enemy" monsters get crumpled up and tossed away, "attack easiest-to-hit enemy" monsters, holy poo poo guys we have to actually use tactics here. I've also observed a phenomenon a few times now where the first fight of a day will regularly be a near-TPK and drain an inappropriate amount of resources, but the following one will be a cakewalk. Maybe it's just an observing effect where it only seems that way relative to the first, maybe it's a behavioral thing where my players enter battle #2 thinking "okay, this time we hit first, fast". Haven't yet come to a conclusion about third battles.
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Dec 21, 2015 15:06
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I know after reducing a party to almost 0, I'm less likely to go murderDM on them. Dunno if you have the same psychological hang-ups though.
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Dec 21, 2015 15:24
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Well, since I always have a backup plan for continuing the story in the event of a TPK, I have no reason to consciously go easy on them... 
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Dec 21, 2015 15:29
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It's because players are less likely to spend dailies on the first fight of the day, and dailies really do just swing an encounter in the other direction. When you're looking ahead to the rest of the day, not using your dailies seems way more palatable than even in the second fight of the day, unless your DM runs a set number of encounters every adventuring "day" (like me, I run 3 tough fights a day and hand out level ups after every 2 "days" generally, because we meet once a week for around 3 hours so that's the only way we can really keep the campaign moving)
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Dec 22, 2015 00:44
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It's counterintuitive, but the first fight of the adventuring day will often be the hardest fight of the adventuring day, and the last fight will often be the easiest; this is because of how people view their limited resources. First fight of the day, nobody wants to blow their dailies until they're in big trouble, and by the time they're in big trouble they'll often go "the fight is half over anyways, if I use a daily now I'll just waste it". Last fight of the day, everybody knows they'll get their dailies back immediately so they'll unload them without hesitation and that wraps a fight up very quickly. If you know your players, you can do a few things to gently caress with 'em, though. Some players bring a definite "Save the big guns for the boss" mentality to the table. Present them with an Obvious Boss Encounter and these people will drop the hammer, so you just make the boss encounter fall early in the adventuring day and these guys will blow their dailies immediately. You can't pull this fake all the time, but you can definitely sucker them with it at least once. Some players just absolutely despise any use of limited resources at all. If you just keep making it look like there's more encounters on the way, these players will sit on their dailies until hell freezes over because what if I need them for the next fight.
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Dec 22, 2015 01:38
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