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Raxivace posted:Who the hell is Max Landis? His father got Vic Morrow and several children brutally killed on the set of Twilight Zone: The Movie.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:24
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NTRabbit posted:A Mary Sue doesn't have to be a self-insert. Right, a Mary Sue is powerful, has no flaws and is suddenly every major character's best friend. Han quickly wanting her as second mate certainly fits that bill; Han never trusted quickly. Her confidence throughout the film is supposed to be a major flaw for a Jedi but it seemed to only be a positive here. It seems like that trait should have caused her falter at some point so she has something to overcome in the next film training with Luke. Regardless the movie worked and I didn't feel like nitpicking this stuff until reading on the internet which means it was a good film.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:27
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Max Landis is a screenwriter who wrote Chronicle and scored a bunch of nerd cred by doing some really good Superman / comics videos, the great Wrestling Isn't Wrestling video, and hanging out with the RLM guys not being a huge jerk there. He has a reputation for being unlikeable because he's an opinionated guy or something? I think a lot of it's jealousy and assuming that he's only gotten where he is just because of his famous dad (which helped, but he's put in plenty of his own hard work and talent). He's fine but prone to typical outraged-nerdesque outbursts which he's usually pretty quick to articulate and justify. He's ok. e: that's probably too many words kinda defending someone who i don't know personally and whose only crime seems to having opinions that are different from my own but harmless to our probable mutual enjoyment of the source material 
Aaronicon fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 09:27
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I don't think he's Satan or whatever but his criticisms of Rey are grating if you've seen the movies hes written. Jesse Eisenberg in AU is a dopey male power fantasy and Jason Bourne ripoff.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:32
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Aaronicon posted:Max Landis is a screenwriter who wrote Chronicle and scored a bunch of nerd cred by doing some really good Superman / comics videos, the great Wrestling Isn't Wrestling video, and hanging out with the RLM guys not being a huge jerk there. He has a reputation for being unlikeable because he's an opinionated guy or something? I think a lot of it's jealousy and assuming that he's only gotten where he is just because of his famous dad (which helped, but he's put in plenty of his own hard work and talent). He's fine but prone to typical outraged-nerdesque outbursts which he's usually pretty quick to articulate and justify. Also he gets associated with something unbelievably lovely his father did three years before he was born. For some reason. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 09:33
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Yeah that's fair; I think a big thing from his RLM interview is that he's aware of the inherent hypocrisy that people have about things that he's written versus what he rags on other movies for doing, but a common defence of his is that he's just a cog in the grand filmmaking machine so what he writes and how it eventually is interpreted through a million layers of studio involvement are two very different things. I don't necessarily fault that defence, either, especially when TFA itself rather obviously feels like it had a lot of very carefully managed hand-holding from the Disney executives to ensure that it satisfied the
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Dec 20, 2015 09:36
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Going back and watching the the non-special edition original trilogy since it's been so long. I'd forgotten how quickly A New Hope transitions from slow burning space adventure to "oh poo poo 3 hour long movies aren't a thing in 1977? Cut out a dozen scenes, drop the light saber stuff and go straight to the space battle finale. I guess the force means this farm boy is now a pilot? No wait, he's the best pilot ever, that makes much more sense". The special effects held up way better than I thought they would, though. Now on to Empire, good times.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:39
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FallenGod posted:Going back and watching the the non-special edition original trilogy since it's been so long. I'd forgotten how quickly A New Hope transitions from slow burning space adventure to "oh poo poo 3 hour long movies aren't a thing in 1977? Cut out a dozen scenes, drop the light saber stuff and go straight to the space battle finale. I guess the force means this farm boy is now a pilot? No wait, he's the best pilot ever, that makes much more sense". The special effects held up way better than I thought they would, though. That reminds me of something. Poe's flight at Starkiller had him lock and unlock the S-foils in rapid succession to squeeze through the narrow spots.That was loving awesome by virtue of never seeing anyone do that in the previous films. Might have made flying through the superstructure of Death Star II a little less tricky. Also, Ep VIII needs both Wedge and Lando.
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Dec 20, 2015 09:45
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Also, Ep VIII needs both Wedge and Lando. Pretty sure wedge's actor turned down a guest role in VII
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Dec 20, 2015 10:00
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hobbesmaster posted:Right, a Mary Sue is powerful, has no flaws and is suddenly every major character's best friend. Han quickly wanting her as second mate certainly fits that bill; Han never trusted quickly. There are two points to cover for me to consider her a honest-to-goodness Mary Sue: 1) "He / she inexplicably, or improbably, does amazing things no one else can and saves the day." Having The Force involved sets a high bar for that. If Rey had started pulling off stuff like Starkiller (the PC from "The Force Unleashed") did, that's one thing. She was doing stuff that was entirely believable for a Force-sensitive person who had hand-to-hand combat experience and survival skills. 2) "Every major, established character becomes either their best friend or their lover." Yes, Han Solo is not usually trusting. Rey not only treats him like a superhero, but also show similar interests (the Falcon, etc) and impresses him with her extensive, but still realistic, technical skill. Plus, Han mentions that Chewie likes her, which is definitely a big point. Finn has never had a friend, it would seem, so it's natural and not forced. Other than those two, who else takes an immediate or unusual liking to her? EDIT: I though over-confidence was the weakness of the Emperor? Jedi are supposed to be confident. Going to the cave on Dagobah? Not sure, so he brings his weapons. Fails. Lifting the ship on Dagobah? Doesn't believe he can do it. Fails. Goes to face Vader on Bespin? Not sure, but he was definitely forced into it by the visions of his friends. Fails. "Operation: Save Han from Jabba"? drat confident, although with a weird, convoluted plan. Wins. Goes willingly to face Vader and the Emperor? Confident that he can save Anakin. Has a rough time, but eventually wins. Mezzanine fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 10:05
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That Jerk Steve posted:Pretty sure wedge's actor turned down a guest role in VII I know, but a man can dream.
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Dec 20, 2015 10:10
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That Jerk Steve posted:Pretty sure wedge's actor turned down a guest role in VII Wedge's son, Chock Antilles
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Dec 20, 2015 10:20
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Ensign_Ricky posted:I know, but a man can dream. I think Lor San Tekka is Wedge. Noone else seems to agree though.
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Dec 20, 2015 10:21
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Mezzanine posted:2) "Every major, established character becomes either their best friend or their lover."
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Dec 20, 2015 10:32
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Ensign_Ricky posted:That reminds me of something. Poe's flight at Starkiller had him lock and unlock the S-foils in rapid succession to squeeze through the narrow spots.That was loving awesome by virtue of never seeing anyone do that in the previous films. Might have made flying through the superstructure of Death Star II a little less tricky. Wedge does it when flying through Deathstar 2 right before the Falcons satellite dish gets knocked off.
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Dec 20, 2015 10:32
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zVxTeflon posted:Wedge does it when flying through Deathstar 2 right before the Falcons satellite dish gets knocked off. Huh. I somehow never noticed that. Ok, so here's another general question. I picked up the soundtrack after the film, if only because I own 5/6 of the others (because gently caress Attack of the Clones), and does anyone else feel that this one was lacking a signature tune? Like Duel of the Fates for Phantom Menace, The Imperial March for Empire, hell even the Cantina Band for A New Hope. Also, a big plus for the album is that none of the track titles ARE MASSIVE loving SPOILERS, I'M LOOKING AT YOU PHANTOM MENACE YOU loving PRICK!
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Dec 20, 2015 10:35
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Serotonin posted:I think Lor San Tekka is Wedge. Noone else seems to agree though. No way. First of all if you're given a name like WEDGE ANTILLES you don't exchange that poo poo in, especially for a load of gibberish. Second, with all the effort they put into getting old cast members, it wouldn't make sense to undo all that just for one more "hey remember this guy" scene. Thirdly, Wedge is a huge badass who wouldn't die on a little dirtball bitch planet like Jakku. He'd die in an epic space battle since he's probably Lieutenant General Antilles, commander of space dogfighting squadron or some dope poo poo like that.
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Dec 20, 2015 10:39
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Unless Wedge developed a slight Swedish/English accent as he got older, I doubt it's him.
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Dec 20, 2015 10:42
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Serotonin posted:I think Lor San Tekka is Wedge. Noone else seems to agree though. I don't think that was supposed to be Wedge. I do think that if Wedge's actor was going to be in episode VII, that's the role he would've played. It just fits too well with how he's described as an old friend of Leia's and how he just so happens to be meeting with Poe, I'm sure they saw it as kind of a passing of the torch between two ace pilots, and probably wrote it with a few more piloting/space battle references in there when they were thinking Wedge would be in there.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:04
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Jose Oquendo posted:Don't overthink it. Their plan is to find Luke. Failing that, prevent the Resistance from doing so. They even say as much at one point, I recall. At the very least I remember some dialogue to this effect
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Dec 20, 2015 11:18
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Imaginary Friend posted:Princess Leia hugs her when they meet at the end. Orange lady gives her a lightsaber. It wasn't exactly sudden or unbelievable with Princess Leia, and the orange lady is a maybe at best.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:20
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Luke being the "last jedi" now has me worried about the fates of Ahsoka, Kanan, and more importantly the as old as Luke or slightly younger Ezra 
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Dec 20, 2015 11:21
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Democratic Pirate posted:Poe and Finn just immediately bro-ing out was the best part and I hope there is more of it. I was saying to a friend that Poe and Finn's escape is the first time a Tie Fighter has ever been cool outside of maybe some video games NTRabbit posted:Luke being the "last jedi" now has me worried about the fates of Ahsoka, Kanan, and more importantly the as old as Luke or slightly younger Ezra I know it's expanded universe poo poo, but with how big a deal they made about The New Star Wars Canon™ and how Rebels was going to be their first new thing, I was surprised no one at least told them to be careful with their wording about how many Jedi were out there.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:33
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Well Ahsoka isn't a Jedi so.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:38
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Aaronicon posted:Speaking of how good the lightsaber fights were, holy poo poo did I love the sound of Kylo's saber. That thing was a loving growling animal and I loved it. I particularly like that the characters were clearly trying to kill each other with the lightsabers, not spinning around like crazy people trying to avoid touching the other person with their intricate dance moves.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:41
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Isn't Rebels like 40 years before TFA?
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Dec 20, 2015 11:41
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It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we never get a Rebels shoutout in any of the live action movies. Like maybe if Luke has an Entmoot moment and outta nowhere summons a buttload of Jedi-likes to fight some huge last battle and maybe there'd be some implicit cameos there. But even though they're all canon, I think their arcs wouldn't intersect with the main movies at all. Rogue One would be the most likely movie for them to get a shoutout, but even this far out people are expecting it to be a Jedi/Force-less affair.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:48
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Spoeank posted:I don't know but I checked his twitter and he said within the last couple of hours that Leia is as badass as Ripley so he may just be pissed that Rey is a more ~badass woman~ than Leia Organa ever was. He's mad that people think ~badass woman~ means good strong character, and correctly compared her to John Cena or Superman as boring invincible, flawless character.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:50
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Aaronicon posted:It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we never get a Rebels shoutout in any of the live action movies. Like maybe if Luke has an Entmoot moment and outta nowhere summons a buttload of Jedi-likes to fight some huge last battle and maybe there'd be some implicit cameos there. But even though they're all canon, I think their arcs wouldn't intersect with the main movies at all. Yeah, I don't think anyone expects explicit cameos or anything, just maybe some exec asking for wording that doesn't implicitly doom the characters in another moneybringer for Disney.
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Dec 20, 2015 11:52
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I was on the "Mary Sue" train but I realized that's only because I was expecting another Hero's Journey and we're not going to get that. I'm not sure what they WANT us to get. It just felt like a star wars video game where a bunch of likeable characters completed the stages and unlocked skills. Stuff happened in a Star Wars universe and it all looked cool. It's basically a big budget fan film, and I don't mean that as an insult, I actually think it might have been intentional. It even had the "lightsaber duel in a forest" from almost every fan film ever. But like a fan film, I'm just not sure if there's any point to it all other than "Hey we get to make a Star Wars movie."
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Dec 20, 2015 11:53
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NTRabbit posted:A Mary Sue doesn't have to be a self-insert. It absolutely does, since it separates a terrible and widespread fanfiction cliche from "a character I don't like" You want mary sues in Star Wars, look through the books for overbrainy dudes with van dyke beards fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 12:23
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Jake Lloyd Era Anakin is quite the Mary Sue when you think about it, of course later on this actually becomes a plot point where he feels like he can't live up to the expectations laid upon him due to his being a wonder kid and the Best Jedi Ever, even the PT managed to take a mary sue character and subvert expectations around it. Given how on the nose Rey's competence, confidence and 'being the force's chosen one' has been in TFA I think it's actually gonna play as a possible source of weakness in the rest of the trilogy (as others itt have noted), it would be another way in which her character growth could parallel Anakin's (and contrast with Kylo's who's also obviously a variation on Anakin).
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Dec 20, 2015 12:31
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fatherboxx posted:It absolutely does, since it separates a terrible and widespread fanfiction cliche from "a character I don't like" No, it definitively doesn't. Lots of Mary Sues examples are, but they're not definitive, just a common subset.
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Dec 20, 2015 12:44
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Rey is not a Mary Sue.
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Dec 20, 2015 12:49
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Berke Negri posted:Rey is not a Mary Sue. Good counter argument, almost up there with "guess you have a problem with strong women characters  "
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Dec 20, 2015 12:50
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NutritiousSnack posted:Good counter argument, almost up there with "guess you have a problem with strong women characters Well how is she, besides being a protagonist?
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Dec 20, 2015 12:57
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Everyone in this Star Wars was highly competent, Rey was just a bit more because she was the main character, this is ridiculous.
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Dec 20, 2015 13:06
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Calling it now that Kylo Ren falls to the temptation of the light side, and Rey turns dark.
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Dec 20, 2015 13:16
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We know about Rey's way of life and her skillset before the force is introduced as something she can do, but we don't know much about her. I feel that's honestly the biggest flaw of TFA; while I can believe Rey's competence and skill I don't really feel like the film offers a good look at her as a person, just at her circumstances. It feels like a lot of what makes her tick was just left as a sequel hook, which feels a little sloppy when juxtaposed with Finn and Kylo, who are both really strong and defined and compelling
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Dec 20, 2015 13:26
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Berke Negri posted:Well how is she, besides being a protagonist? mr.capps posted:Everyone in this Star Wars was highly competent, Rey was just a bit more because she was the main character, this is ridiculous. Ben Solo is a petulant half trained manchild who gets shot, stabbed, and whose judgement is always being questioned. Finn gets his rear end handed to him twice and has to be bailed out, can't fly or really do anything outside of shoot guns, and kinda sucks when firing ship weapons despite his skills overlapping. Han needs to get saved and is taking flying instructions from Rey. Rey is good at everything, from mechanics and street fighting (which she should be, given her life up til then), piloting (makes sense with the tidbit she gave), and is already doing pretty in depth force tricks and lightsabering with no experience. She's the daughter Solo never had right off the bat, Ren is captivated by her the moment he sees her, thought that does have to do with her force potential...gently caress EVERY named character in this likes her or wants her on their side pretty much. Rey is never in danger and there are no stakes to her fights/situations she's in. I can keep going. She's pretty much every YA book, female protagonist ever.
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Dec 20, 2015 13:27
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