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CestMoi posted:You don't just sit down, list out all the nouns in the book and then map them onto their cultural connotations, everything is always interacting, if the power of nature is in some way important to the story, and by extension the characters in the story, then of course the sea represents that. You've clearly never been to an American high school
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Dec 18, 2015 00:04
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Zesty Mordant posted:
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Dec 18, 2015 00:08
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I feel like a fail reader because I enjoyed Khazars but it never ended up making any sense to me except that I think it's about eggs Same and it's definitely about eggs
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Dec 18, 2015 00:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Troll theory: most of Shakespeare's plays were cooperatively written by his whole acting troupe, he was just lead writer, like John Stewart gets credit for the daily show. this is like the post in some other thread here where someone said that thomas pynchon was multiple people because no one man could have such a grasp of references
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Dec 18, 2015 00:26
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I feel like a fail reader because I enjoyed Khazars but it never ended up making any sense to me except that I think it's about eggs I mean, it isn't wholly coming together cosmically or anything, but things mentioned in one place are popping up again, and not just character names. I still have no idea what it's about.
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Dec 18, 2015 01:18
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I really like the idea that junk literature should be taught to high school students so they can appreciate better stuff when they're older but I think having the right teacher makes a large difference. In my IB English class, some of the books we read were The Bell Jar, The Underground Man, Madame Bovary and Native Son and I think that I have a deeper appreciation of these works because they were well taught - The Underground Man might have been the only one I would've picked up independently. I can easily see them being taught poorly though, I had a miserable teacher for my second year of IB English and I completely bounced off of the Shakespeare we read (Hamlet, Othello) and the Cisneros books as well. I'm almost finished with Purity and unless it dramatically changes in the last fifty pages (which I don't think it will) it's a really mediocre book. The characters are boring and Franzen seems to be stuck on the anti-internet diatribe that I've seen in a few other boring books like Dave Egger's The Circle. There are also parts where he uses clumsy language to express how characters have trouble thinking as adults in certain areas and it just comes off incredibly stilted to read a fifty year old man think about his "stiffy". If there's one thing I know male writers can do well, it's artfully describe tumescence. The worst part of the book is that it's not bad enough to be entirely not worth reading if you like Franzen - the way that he brings the characters together is interesting and he does make sure that some of them have opposing viewpoints that he almost wants to treat seriously. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have nothing else to read. I picked up City on Fire so I'll have thoughts on that in a few weeks.
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Dec 18, 2015 03:47
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Zesty Mordant posted:I mean, it isn't wholly coming together cosmically or anything, but things mentioned in one place are popping up again, and not just character names. I still have no idea what it's about. it's about an impossible dream called Yugoslavia
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Dec 18, 2015 04:52
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Cloks posted:The characters are boring and Franzen seems to be stuck on the anti-internet diatribe that I've seen in a few other boring books like Dave Egger's The Circle. eggs
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Dec 18, 2015 10:13
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Tree Goat posted:catcher in the rye its too bad that last part rarely happens "i've already read all the important books" -- a little poo poo whose papers i've been grading
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Dec 18, 2015 12:29
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A human heart posted:this is like the post in some other thread here where someone said that thomas pynchon was multiple people because no one man could have such a grasp of references It makes too much sense to not be true
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Dec 18, 2015 13:25
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WAY TO GO WAMPA!! posted:no, it's that Pynchon is actually a cabal of writers because it is in line with the themes of his (their) works.
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Dec 18, 2015 13:31
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Cloks posted:I'm almost finished with Purity and unless it dramatically changes in the last fifty pages (which I don't think it will) it's a really mediocre book. The characters are boring and Franzen seems to be stuck on the anti-internet diatribe that I've seen in a few other boring books like Dave Egger's The Circle. There are also parts where he uses clumsy language to express how characters have trouble thinking as adults in certain areas and it just comes off incredibly stilted to read a fifty year old man think about his "stiffy". If there's one thing I know male writers can do well, it's artfully describe tumescence. The worst part of the book is that it's not bad enough to be entirely not worth reading if you like Franzen - the way that he brings the characters together is interesting and he does make sure that some of them have opposing viewpoints that he almost wants to treat seriously. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have nothing else to read. I really liked Franzen's last two books but I have absolutely zero interest in even reading this one.
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Dec 18, 2015 16:06
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Mel Mudkiper posted:You've clearly never been to an American high school I'm thankful for my literary education, because even though it turned only a chosen few into ponderers of Serious Art, we were taught to approach both literary classics and advertisements with the same approach: what does the text say, what does it do, and how does it do it?
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Dec 18, 2015 22:42
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For what it's worth, while my required literature classes sucked, I did like my mythology classes (which also covered really old classics). Of course because I was an edgy teenager, I told the teacher that the Divine Comedy (we only read Inferno, but went over the rest of it) was basically this weird self-insert fanfiction. "He has Virgil as his guide to make himself look better. People he hates are burning in Hell, and his girlfriend is perfect and guides him through Heaven. See, it's a bad fanfic." I never really learned how to analyze stuff, but I should learn how. Not related to high school, I started reading the Club Dumas which was recommended to me in this thread ages ago. I like it so far, but I'm not sure I'm supposed to wish I was reading a different book while reading this, even if this keeps talking about how awesome Dumas was.
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Dec 18, 2015 23:31
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I'm thankful for my literary education, because even though it turned only a chosen few into ponderers of Serious Art, we were taught to approach both literary classics and advertisements with the same approach: what does the text say, what does it do, and how does it do it? Yeah I never regretted my Comparative Lit degree because it gave me the critical chops to really engage with good fiction.
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Dec 18, 2015 23:45
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah I never regretted my Comparative Lit degree because it gave me the critical chops to really engage with good fiction. Funny, you never seem to post any of that.
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Dec 19, 2015 00:33
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Nanomashoes posted:Funny, you never seem to post any of that. I will loving fight you
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Dec 19, 2015 01:10
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Caustic Chimera posted:I never really learned how to analyze stuff, but I should learn how. I'm not sure it's something that needs learning really, imo a lot of why people think things go over their heads in difficult literature is just an assumption that they won't get it that they take into the book and so they don't bother thinking too hard because they're not going to get it any wya. I have no evidence to back this up.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:27
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I'm reading Lattimore's translation of the Iliad and it's the smoothest reading experience in the world. I read a bit of the start of Pope's Iliad to compare and my initial thoughts were that Lattimore's translation just wasn't anywhere near as beautiful as Pope's but the further I get into it the more I appreciate just how good the flow of Lattimore's is, there's really not a lot I can compare it to it's just lovely.
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Dec 19, 2015 01:33
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When I write essays at university for my lit degree I've noticed that sadly I get best grades when I troll hardest and think of ways to overanalyze stupid poo poo.
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Dec 19, 2015 15:52
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Patricia Lockwood posted:'I'm pregnant!' shouts Jonathan Franzen's wife.
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Dec 19, 2015 21:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I legitimately think people who look for symbolism in novels are loving oppressive pedants. Mandala make ya holla
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Dec 19, 2015 21:22
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mallamp posted:When I write essays at university for my lit degree I've noticed that sadly I get best grades when I troll hardest and think of ways to overanalyze stupid poo poo. It sounds like your course instructors are smarter than you.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:20
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A human heart posted:It sounds like your course instructors are smarter than you. Of course but it was still sad revelation. Makes me wonder how many philosophers are just trolling too
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Dec 20, 2015 14:19
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I've always suspected de Selby of making stuff up as he went along
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Dec 20, 2015 14:29
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mallamp posted:Of course but it was still sad revelation. Makes me wonder how many philosophers are just trolling too With philosophy, its as much about the strength of your argument as it is about the content. So you can have a bullshit, ridiculous conclusion, but if you argue for it in a sound way, you did just fine. I finished Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk and I really loved it. As a veteran, I could relate to some of the stuff about how weird it is when people want to thank you for your service. The love story in it was great, but didn't fit the rest of the book on a thematic level, I didn't think. Still, great read. On to Luminaries, which after 54 pages promises to be even better. blue squares fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 16:09
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I finished Catch 22 a few months ago, pretty much the first real book I've ever read. I liked it, I laughed quite a bit, and at one point it even made me feel some feelings. But I just wasn't really interested. There wasn't enough tying the different chapters together until near the very end - it felt like a bunch of vaguely interconnected skits that, while enjoyable to read, didn't give me that page-turning feeling. Moved on to Crime and Punishment (the Sidney Monas translation was recommended to me by a friend, not sure if he's wrong but it seemed fine) and maybe literature finally clicked with me. I loved it, at least once I got past the loving ridiculous 15 page long monologues that plague the first third of the book. I'm sure they have greater meaning to more intelligent people than I, but I just couldn't stand them. It's been 2 weeks since I finished, and I find thoughts about the book and its meaning just popping into my head all the time. I'm starting lit studies next year so I wanna get more of the obvious, 'very likely to be required reading in a first year lit class' classics out of the way beforehand, any suggestions? I know I'll have to reread them anyway, but I don't care.
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Dec 20, 2015 18:32
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blue squares posted:With philosophy, its as much about the strength of your argument as it is about the content. So you can have a bullshit, ridiculous conclusion, but if you argue for it in a sound way, you did just fine. I was going to point out not all philosophy is sophistry but the sophists convinced me the world including myself doesn't exist so now I feel no need to.
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Dec 20, 2015 18:33
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Why does a female edition copy of Dictionary of the Khazars in good condition cost half the price of a beat up copy of the male edition? 
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Dec 20, 2015 18:49
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Esme posted:Why does a female edition copy of Dictionary of the Khazars in good condition cost half the price of a beat up copy of the male edition? I dunnoa about any speficics of publications & translations but I see the Finnish female edition in bookshops every now and then but have never seen the male edition THE PWNER posted:I finished Catch 22 a few months ago, pretty much the first real book I've ever read. I liked it, I laughed quite a bit, and at one point it even made me feel some feelings. But I just wasn't really interested. There wasn't enough tying the different chapters together until near the very end - it felt like a bunch of vaguely interconnected skits that, while enjoyable to read, didn't give me that page-turning feeling. Why are you gonna study literature if you've never had much interest in it? Not trying to argue or anything, just curious
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Dec 20, 2015 18:53
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THE PWNER posted:any suggestions?
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Dec 20, 2015 18:53
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Ras Het posted:I dunnoa about any speficics of publications & translations but I see the Finnish female edition in bookshops every now and then but have never seen the male edition Presumably for the money and birches
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Dec 20, 2015 19:19
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blue squares posted:my suggestion is to change your avatar do it yourself Ras Het posted:Why are you gonna study literature if you've never had much interest in it? Not trying to argue or anything, just curious To develop an interest cus I'm a poo poo boring uncultured person. Also it's a good pathway into postgrad teaching or applied linguistics (with the relevant minor) I imagine the average 18 year old starting their English major probably hasn't read many of the classics either.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:27
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Esme posted:Why does a female edition copy of Dictionary of the Khazars in good condition cost half the price of a beat up copy of the male edition? Patriarchy, obviously.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:33
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Read the picture of Dorian Gray recently, couldn't stop imagining Dorian as Arthur Rimbaud. You think Oscar Wilde had a crush on Rimbaud the same way I do?
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Dec 20, 2015 19:34
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im gonna find somebody to cum on
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Dec 20, 2015 19:40
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In two separate phone conversations today I had Dickens recommended to me. I think I read a Christmas Carol ages ago, or maybe I saw a movie of it. Should I just follow that post on the first page and start with Oliver Twist or David Copperfield?
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Dec 20, 2015 20:00
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Caustic Chimera posted:In two separate phone conversations today I had Dickens recommended to me. I think I read a Christmas Carol ages ago, or maybe I saw a movie of it. Should I just follow that post on the first page and start with Oliver Twist or David Copperfield? Great Expectations, imo
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Dec 20, 2015 20:03
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yeah start w Great Expectations
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Dec 20, 2015 20:07
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Dickens is poo poo. Don't waste your time. There's so much out there that is far, far greater.
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Dec 20, 2015 20:08
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