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Politics threads give the worst avs, sports threads give the best. Who'da thunk it? To stay on topic, all this wiz talk is giving me a crawl craving, maybe HEWz could be the caster I get my first rune with?
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Dec 20, 2015 11:08
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| # ? May 18, 2024 00:24 |
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I would have thought a first rune would be MiBe. It's ridiculous how easy they are compared to a caster, once I've got plate and a decent axe I'm just tabbing my way through Lair branches with ease (multiple runes). I still get killed later, but getting a few runes seems pretty easy once you've learned a little about the game.
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Dec 20, 2015 13:06
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:Vehumet was really tempting this run since I've already found 3 different spellbooks so far. I'm still going with sif though since there's probably a load of cool spells I haven't tried yet. That shock spell sounds amazing for dealing with those huge bands of orcs or gnoll patrols. You probably should go Vehumet. He's stronger than Sif in general and especially so for new players, since all his powers are strong, passive & free. Sif isn't that great unless you're going in planning to exploit her abilities to the fullest. And yeah, shock is really good. It's the best level one spell and part of why the AE start is great. My ideal starter spell book if element schools didn't matter would be book of flames minus flame tongue/throw flame, plus shock & meph cloud. PleasingFungus posted:Gell's Gravitas might be good, I'm not sure anyone's sure. I tried it out while megazigging and while it's hilariously lethal for a level 3 spell when the screen is full (I was oneshotting 8~ midrange enemies at a time) trying it out in less dense groups of enemies (what you might find in the real game) was much less impressive. It was almost impossible to tell if it was moving the monsters and the damage was low.
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Dec 20, 2015 14:06
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PleasingFungus posted:Gell's Gravitas was rebalanced to be dramatically stronger at low power, about a month after your deam. Good to hear, that might mean I have to do yet another DEAM. Darox posted:And yeah, shock is really good. It's the best level one spell and part of why the AE start is great. My ideal starter spell book if element schools didn't matter would be book of flames minus flame tongue/throw flame, plus shock & meph cloud. Interesting, I hate AE with a passion (and I've won 3-4 of them, because I want to like them and love high level air magic) and I'm not a big fan of shock. Better to be able to kill single enemies reliably without fussing around with bouncing the bolt. I think the real problem with AE, though, is lightning bolt. I'd have to choose freeze as my favorite level one spell. It's single school and can take you through most of the early game by itself with careful use.
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Dec 20, 2015 14:28
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I'm kind of upset PF doesn't have the bald guy peeking out with a tiny Christmas hat, I'm willing to pay for changing it back (call it Christmas spirit or something)
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Dec 20, 2015 18:26
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apple posted:I'm kind of upset PF doesn't have the bald guy peeking out with a tiny Christmas hat, I'm willing to pay for changing it back (call it Christmas spirit or something) Don't worry, I'll bring back Christmas Satya in a few days. Just being polite to Angry Politics Food Poster by letting the redtext stick around for a little bit; let them get their money's worth, you know? In more crawl-related posting, I just acquired "the +14 pearl dragon armour of the Equator {*Corrode rElec rF+++ rN+ Str-4}" on Orc:2 as a spriggan with 6 base str. I splatted almost immediately afterward, mainly out of sorrow. +14 PDA of rF+++...! PleasingFungus fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 19:04
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StoryTime posted:
The mummies that run D&D find food discussion to be incredibly offensive.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:20
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PleasingFungus posted:Don't worry, I'll bring back Christmas Satya in a few days. Just being polite to Angry Politics Food Poster by letting the redtext stick around for a little bit; let them get their money's worth, you know? That's armor that's worth wearing a +STR randart for, even - so it's extra sad since you might have been able to wear it later.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:24
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Internet Kraken posted:The mummies that run D&D find food discussion to be incredibly offensive. FR: Amount of satiety each food item gives is decreased for each repeated item eaten. Adventurers require a balanced diet.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:46
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Tony Montana posted:I would have thought a first rune would be MiBe. It's ridiculous how easy they are compared to a caster, once I've got plate and a decent axe I'm just tabbing my way through Lair branches with ease (multiple runes). I still get killed later, but getting a few runes seems pretty easy once you've learned a little about the game. Yeah, I got my only win (3 runes) with a MiBe and now I'm trying to get somewhere, anywhere, with a caster, any caster.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:53
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Does anyone have a guide or FAQ or something to playing a caster in Crawl? They seem cool, but I have no idea how any of the systems work, from memorizing spells to spell hunger to skilling and so on.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:02
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Yeah I'd like to know this too. I've played only melee Fi/Be/Gl/CK/Mo with Tr/Gr/Mi/Gr/Fo and ascended with all different number of runes with them, but want to try to branch out into casting after seeing some guys just destroy some zigs online. The problem being, I'm kind of lazy, and liked the simplicity of run into monster > kill monster > repeat, instead of casting a bunch of maintenance spells and then casting another bunch of attack spells. Also the uncertainty of how the skilling works has made me hesitant to dive right in. I'm thinking a Naga wizard, since Naga's gots the hit points, good poking skills, and can wizard around. Is there a wizard combo that's as straightforward as MiFi?
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Dec 20, 2015 21:26
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Arivia posted:Does anyone have a guide or FAQ or something to playing a caster in Crawl? They seem cool, but I have no idea how any of the systems work, from memorizing spells to spell hunger to skilling and so on. Probably the easiest way is to either spectate someone who's running some low-level characters or play on webtiles and post a link here asking for spectators/help. I find it's kind of a "what it feels like" thing. To be more specific: you get spell slots from both character levels and I think every half a rank in Spellcasting, and those spell slots are exchanged one-for-one to learn a spell of level x. So it takes three slots to learn a level 3 spell, and nine to learn something like Firestorm. You also can't learn a spell higher than your character level, but this is only really relevant for the first three or so levels. Spell hunger is... largely not that relevant. You just have to eat more often if you're casting spells. Food is more a tactical consideration (can't cast if you're Starving!) than strategic unless you can't eat chunks, you super-neglect Spellcasting, or something weird is going on (way less rations than average this game, sort of thing). If you want/need to mitigate it, intelligence and your Spellcasting skill negate it. Just don't spam spells that have maxed out casting costs. If your permafood supply is trending negative, fix it then. Skilling works thusly: if you need a spell or spells to be better, you train the relevant spell school(s) more. That's it. Just keep an eye on your miscast chance and color. Spellcasting itself does a little something for spells, but the individual schools always do more.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:39
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Tony Montana posted:Can anyone recommend a morgue file parser? Some utility or tool that I can point to my directory of morgue files and it gives me stats, like how many runs total and how many things killed total and what classes I like running most and stuff like that? Arivia posted:Does anyone have a guide or FAQ or something to playing a caster in Crawl? They seem cool, but I have no idea how any of the systems work, from memorizing spells to spell hunger to skilling and so on. 2)Ignore spell hunger unless you're hitting Starving a lot. By the time you're casting big enough spells to really care about it, you'll have ways of dealing with it(a staff of energy removes spell hunger while wielded, high Spellcasting and Int both lower spell hunger, etc). 3)Go Vehumet. Sif Muna's kind of garbage unless you're planning to abuse channelling a lot. 4)For skilling, focus on your main damage dealing school(along with Conjurations if you're an elemental caster) at first. Pick up SC as you need it for spell slots. You can start branching out once you have your big startbook spells reliably castable. Your main goals overall are to get spell failure down(~5% failure at most), & get enough dodging/fighting that you don't die the instant something melees you. Most casters will want to get a handful of spells outside of their main school, plus utility spells like Sublimation of Blood, Ozoarmor, and Regeneration. It's really hard to say anything specific because it depends on your startbook and what books you find and what spells Vehumet gives you.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:41
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Well, nevermind on that amazing run I had going. I hit a teleport trap in the orc mines and got placed directly in the center of about 20-30 orcs including Saint Roka. That fight didn't last very long.
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Dec 20, 2015 22:36
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gammafunk posted:is this thing working? i paid for this crap after all. Heya yur coming in loud and clear! Welcome aboard !
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Dec 20, 2015 23:56
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superstepa posted:I think it might have been an ogre mage, but it wasn't in my line of sight when I got abyssed, I was just auto exploring what I thought was a cleared stage and bam, "you have been sent into the abyss". I'm kind of frustrated because that was one of my better characters but it's just what roguelikes do Sounds like you explored into a Zot-trap maybe ?
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Dec 20, 2015 23:56
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Spellcasting also gives you more max mp, which you also get with character levels. Invocations skill can do the same thing, but they can't give better mp at the same time. Only the one that's higher counts.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:28
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gammafunk posted:is this thing working? i paid for this crap after all. I tuned in to one of your streams (testing Pakellas I think?) and it's cool to see people streaming Crawl!
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Dec 21, 2015 00:32
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resistentialism posted:Invocations skill can do the same thing, but they can't give better mp at the same time. Only the one that's higher counts.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:39
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Oh ok. If your god doesn't have invocations can you still train it for the extra mp? Guess I could go check myself or whatever.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:43
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Scaramouche posted:I'm thinking a Naga wizard, since Naga's gots the hit points, good poking skills, and can wizard around. Is there a wizard combo that's as straightforward as MiFi? Start with a Deep Elf Conjurer or Fire Elementalist. Being a rapidly-escalating glass howitzer will let you learn the ins and outs of heavy-caster survival quickly, and you'll get a feel for the playstyle's strengths and weaknesses fairly fast without getting burned out on it. Once you've done that, it'll be easier to get the hang of slower-learning caster combos that have to rely more on mixed strategies.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:44
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For learning the ways of a caster what has helped me is: 1) The Crawl Wiki. There are detailed pages on spell power, hunger, etc and they go right down to the formulas the game uses to do the math. I personally don't care that much, but it certainly tells me what I need to know about the concepts. 2) Asking here, a page or two ago I asked 'can someone give me some Wiz tips' and there were a number of useful posts that followed that. Now I've been hanging around the thread a bit I see this comes up all the time and can understand why the regulars aren't always jumping to copy/paste the same posts over and over. 3) Hybrid baby. For quite a while I was stuck in the classic RPG mentality thinking I had to be a barefooted, robed, skinny Gandalf with a dirty beard to be any good at magic. This meant in the early stages before you have any magic or MP or HP worth a drat, you're ridiculously squishy. gently caress that noise, get your skinny rear end into some leather armour, don a spiky steel helmet, find some gloves and boots.. find a buckler.. get your AC up to 10 or more. Train a primary weapon, not a staff but a long blade or whatever your species doesn't suck at (High Elf are super handy with swords). Then play a hybrid style, use both magic and melee and enjoy the fact a single hit or running out of MP doesn't mean game over. 4) The specific details on how armour and shields inhibit magic use I've had a bit of trouble finding the specifics, but the FAQ on the crawl wiki has this awesome question that sums it up nicely: How much Armor/Shield skill or Strength is required to negate casting penalties? A: The spellcasting penalty is 25 * (AEVP + ASP) - 20. AEVP is Adjusted Evasion Penalty (body armour) and ASP is Adjusted Shield Penalty. The armour skill you need to nullify the penalty depends on your strength and the encumbrance rating of your body armour. The formula is: Armour skill = 45 - 0.8*5*(STR+3)*45/(2*Encumbrance rating²). For leather armours, 5 str will be enough even if you don't have any armour skill. For fire dragon armours, 27 skill levels won't completely remove the penalty unless you have more than 22 str. For shields, assuming normal size and robe/Steam Dragon Armour, you need 1 for buckler, 11 for normal and 21 for large shield. In short, you can get enough skill and will have enough strength to use a buckler and wear leather armour in the very early game.. with pretty much no impact to your magic abilities. I've found later when I'm trying to cast better spells and I'm getting AC from other sources because I'm finding better stuff.. I'm going back to robes.. but for that bitchy early game where it's so easy to get squished more  instead of 
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Dec 21, 2015 00:47
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Ogre Wizards of Ash are also really cool and good.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:50
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High Elf Wizard has also had a lot of love in this thread for good reason. It starts with a powerful and varied toolset that can be applied to almost any situation, and it lends itself well to a melee/casting hybrid build if you aren't ready to go all in with a pure caster. It's a bit tougher learning how to utilize your spells properly and how they synergize with each other, but it really makes combat a lot more interesting.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:51
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I usually recommend a Deep Elf nuker specifically because it teaches you to not recklessly otab and to live and die by good MP management in combat. Once you get used to that, switching to OgWz or something leaves you thinking, "holy poo poo I have so much HP and I'm good at fighting oh my god this changes everything" Maybe that's just me, though  e: Tengu are rad hybrid blastymages as well, since they have great aptitudes, auxiliary attacks, and flight.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:01
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don't play anything but Orcs/Demonspawn/Ghoul, everything else is dead to me
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Dec 21, 2015 01:01
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Humans Among Us posted:Ogre Wizards of Ash are also really cool and good. Nothing of Ash is cool because he's a finicky god of bullshit. They are good though.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:17
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EE stabbers of ash are super cool.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:20
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I think the armor/shield penalty stuff has been changed a bit:quote:<Sequell> shield penalty[1/1]: (1/3/5 for bucklers/shields/large shields) minus (shield skill divided by 3/5/7/9 (ogres/humans/kobolds/spriggans)). So you can easily wear a buckler just by getting your shield skill to 3/5/7/9. Body armor can't be completely mitigated, but leather's probably fine. Helmets, gloves, boots, and cloaks have no spellcasting penalties whatsoever. DECj is my favorite 'pure blaster' caster: you're super frail so it teaches you to run away easily, but it has a really nice combo in the form of battlesphere + magic dart for 'target painting'.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:21
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Ah, thanks for that.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:24
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Internet Kraken posted:Nothing of Ash is cool because he's a finicky god of bullshit. They are good though. Nah, just curse all your poo poo and giant club everything to death, cast spells if you like. I know what you mean but i personally don't mind that much. You don't want to carry around hundreds of rods, weapons and blowguns with Ash and you need those inventory spaces for curse scrolls anyway.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:28
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For HE, you could used bows as well instead of melee. IIRC there's no penalty for using bows in melee, and High Elves have a higher bows apt. Plus another, MP-less ranged attack can help soften enemies before they reach attack range.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:41
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IronicDongz posted:This isn't actually true anymore, now invo/evo/spellcasting all always contribute. That would have been good to know on my DDFi of Pakellas that found the starting necro book. Animate Skeleton seemed to be worth the mana even without MP regen, but I was greedy with my exp and didn't bother with SC with 20 in Evo.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:38
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Internet Kraken posted:Nothing of Ash is cool because he's a finicky god of bullshit. They are good though. Ash is the god of the jack-of-all-trades-except-gently caress-you-I'm-a-master-of-all-of-them-too who can also see through walls. I actually find her to provide serious quality of life improvements as well because of the auto-IDing and because you don't have to deal with equipment swapping since you can't do it anyway. Of course 70% of my characters worship Ash, so I'm hardly an objective source. resistentialism posted:EE stabbers of ash are super cool. Indeed they are. Ages ago someone in one of these threads said they're like an evil slasher movie Kool-aid man and that's definitely true. HisMajestyBOB posted:For HE, you could used bows as well instead of melee. IIRC there's no penalty for using bows in melee, and High Elves have a higher bows apt. Plus another, MP-less ranged attack can help soften enemies before they reach attack range. Bows are really, really good for casters. They solve your MP problems, they're quiet and they don't require you to train high defenses. I'd probably forgo firestorm on most deep elves for 20 in bows. And the wizard spellbook is even more friendly to ranged attackers than melee since you can use blink, meph cloud and, early on, conjure flame to keep enemies at range. But compared to melee, arrows can be hard to find very early, then lair can get rough if you don't have a longbow, and you probably won't! Once you do get one, though, the game folds like paper. Weapon acquirement is a very good idea with an early archer.
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Dec 21, 2015 02:51
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YASD: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/meatpath/morgue-meatpath-20151221-030126.txt I don't know why the gently caress I even stuck around those juggernauts. I was trying to run at that point and thought they would be slower than me, but then one landed a hit for 93 damage.  Stupid lovely death, I had all kinds of ways to deal with the situation.
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Dec 21, 2015 04:31
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It's funny. Despite being turn based, panic is still the leading cause of all my deaths. Even that time I got my wizard teletrapped in the middle of Saint Roka and his orc band I almost made it out alive. The only one still attacking me near the end was Roka, and I could have easily meph clouded him to buy time to escape, but I wasn't thinking and kept trying to run away.
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Dec 21, 2015 04:55
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apple posted:I tuned in to one of your streams (testing Pakellas I think?) and it's cool to see people streaming Crawl! Thanks, but I did not so much test Pakellas as I did become the Timeless Inventor, he who brings about the Great Conjunction. That and more all in a regular, viewer-and-chat-friendly stream format, now featuring song requests curated by the most talented moderators on the internet. A steal at $4.99 for the donation incentive that lets you continue having the privilege of hearing my epic voice.
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Dec 21, 2015 05:28
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 Found this thing on a DEFE. The name seems especially apt now that clarity is out of the game.
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Dec 21, 2015 05:48
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| # ? May 18, 2024 00:24 |
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I just spent 15 minutes ineffectively trying to kill Erheskigal and she would not. loving. die. I lost count of how many times I got her down to red, only for her to endlessly spam major healing until hell effects forced a retreat. Of course I should of just grabbed her rune from the start but no, that would be the smart play. Don't tunnel vision on killing hell lords.
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Dec 21, 2015 06:56
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