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emanresu tnuocca posted:So maybe it's the one sci-fi work that has no magic parts? I wouldn't know. Gravity and The Martian are actually both 'mundane science fiction', stories written using no technology that doesn't already exist. Hard SF involves technology that can be explained wholly or mostly using modern physics, but which doesn't yet exist (for example, a story about an encounter with a mobile black hole that uses its polar jet for thrust and 'thinks' with electromagnetic computations in the accretion disc is outlandish, but would qualify as hard SF because some astrophysicist who wrote it worked out all the physics of how the hole would operate). All these genre distinctions are stupid though, and arguments about them make me mad! I think hard SF isn't really important as a genre but is a really cool aesthetic, a tool that a story can use to set tone and explore its characters and themes.
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Dec 19, 2015 20:57
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 18:37 |
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I apologize for book spoilers earlier. I don't really hang in the tv threads as I don't watch much tv, but I totally get how it's a buzzkill. I don't think we need two threads - I think we can self moderate and tag book spoilers. I'm confused that there's confusion about the layout of the ships. There's no situation where the walls become the floor. There's only floor towards thrust, or microgravity. I think the main takeaway is that while this isn't canonically 'hard' (especially because they can't cast the entire NBA to play extras in the belt), there's no inertial stabilizers, magic gravity, or warp tunnels. I guess it's a matter of time before someone does Revelation Space, huh?
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Dec 19, 2015 21:07
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General Battuta posted:
The esthetic is the distinction. This is the first show to nail hsf esthetics and back it up with as much physics that can fit in the budget. That means something to me. The Forbes article had A physicist make the same observation that I did about the wrench falling away, to correct himself by the end of the article because the ship was in fact under thrust not ballistic. Earlier in the thread someone pointed out the Coriolis effect of Miller pouring a glass in the crime scene apartment that almost went unnoticed by most of us. Later in the show when he's at the gardens where rich people presumably live he pours water and the effect is much less. This is a common theme that isn't spelled out. These type of discussions are what interests me. gohmak fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 21:29
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http://communityvoices.post-gazette.com/arts-entertainment-living/tuned-in/item/39704-sex-in-zero-gravity-space-on-syfy-s-the-expansequote:"Alien" taught us "in space no one can hear you scream," but "The Expanse" seeks to reclaim primal screams in space in one brief scene where ice hauler second officer Jim Holden (Steven Strait, "Magic City," top of page) gets intimate with a shipmate, as seen in the image above.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:06
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AirborneNinja posted:A big issue with tiny spaces like you would expect a spaceship to be is that they're pretty hard to film in. I was actually looking at all the wide-open spaces on the Donnager (the 'shuttle bay' area, the bridge being a box suspended in the middle of a bigger room?) and thinking they were terribly inefficient uses of space/really bad decompression hazards... pugnax posted:I guess it's a matter of time before someone does Revelation Space, huh? The 14-year-old in me wants to see Honor Harrington on TV. It would basically be Master & Commander, but with sidewalls.  VVV: Harrington done as a TV show/miniseries would do away with half of the missile volley infodump crap right off the bat since they'd just be visuals instead of multiple-page number sperging. And then maybe they could get someone to streamline Weber's dialogue? 
WarLocke fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 22:48
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Only if Honor Harrington orders a pizza like David Weber at some point during the show.
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Dec 19, 2015 22:59
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emanresu tnuocca posted:So maybe it's the one sci-fi work that has no magic parts? I wouldn't know. No the ability to create enough Specific Impulse velocity to be able to reach other bodies in the solar system in an amount of time short enough to keep things interesting, with enough thrust to make high acceleration combat manoeuvres, and yet not be throwing off so much energy as to count as a weapon of mass destruction is pretty much close to magical. It's just that virtually every space science fiction TV show need to have engines that can do all that. There's nothing physically impossible about the Epstein drive except that last part, and to be fair I don't think we've seen one turn on close enough to do damage.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:07
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Woden posted:No kidding, the ice tankers are hilariously over engineered for their job and probably weigh more than the ice they haul.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:12
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WarLocke posted:I was actually looking at all the wide-open spaces on the Donnager (the 'shuttle bay' area, the bridge being a box suspended in the middle of a bigger room?) and thinking they were terribly inefficient uses of space/really bad decompression hazards... Actual real estate should not really be a factor -- you don't need maneuverability, it all comes down to mass. So it might be a misuse of mass. But it's probably negligible on the enormous capital ship, the flagship of that planet, which might need to be really versatile and dock various smaller ships?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:19
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Vehementi posted:Actual real estate should not really be a factor -- you don't need maneuverability, it all comes down to mass. So it might be a misuse of mass. But it's probably negligible on the enormous capital ship, the flagship of that planet, which might need to be really versatile and dock various smaller ships? I think the problem is that every cubic foot of air is a cubic foot that has to be protected against radiation and enemy fire, and armour imposes a mass penalty. It's not just the hanger a lot of the rooms were bigger than they needed to be. I think you're right in that the Donnager is the flagship and having spacious rooms is basically another way of flaunting Martian superiority, that they can afford to be so spacious and wasteful with their flagship's design.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:24
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pugnax posted:I'm confused that there's confusion about the layout of the ships. There's no situation where the walls become the floor. There's only floor towards thrust, or microgravity. The floors don't become the walls, the ceiling become the floors when the ship flips. Book 2: Prax remarks that everything is sideways when he gets on the Roci
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Dec 19, 2015 23:27
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Professor Shark posted:The floors don't become the walls, the ceiling become the floors when the ship flips. Oh weird (haha poo poo I just learned a lesson about replying with quote to a spoiler post) , I don't remember chairs on ceilings etc.? Do they actually have that? If so I want to go rewatch because that would be cool. edit: wait no that's not true. If the ship just flipped, there is zero gravity because they're not accelerating for a bit there. But then they fire the rocket boosters, and as always the rocket boosters are shooting "down" so gravity is as normal.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:31
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Oh yeah, that makes sense Edit: Wait, does it? Professor Shark fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 23:38
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When you're moving towards something, your head is pointing towards it. When you slow down, the ship flips and your head is still pointed towards it, but you're walking on the ceiling because th engine is now facing towards whatever you're moving towards...
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Dec 19, 2015 23:44
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Professor Shark posted:The floors don't become the walls, the ceiling become the floors when the ship flips. I'm rereading book 2 now so I'll look for that quote, but I've always assumed the ship just does a 180? How else would it decelerate?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:44
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It does a 180 and the engine works as the breaks, but if you do a 180 then you are walking on the ceiling as the ship slows... ?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:47
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Professor Shark posted:When you're moving towards something, your head is pointing towards it. When you slow down, the ship flips and your head is still pointed towards it, but you're walking on the ceiling because th engine is now facing towards whatever you're moving towards... In a car if there is acceleration you want it to be into the seat. When a car speeds up, you get pushed into your seat. So far so good. What if, when the car was going to come to a screeching halt, the car's wheels turned to ice for a second and it did a 180, and then slammed on the brakes? You'd get pushed in the same direction as before with respect to the road, but now you'd be happily being pushed into your seat again. Same thing with the ship. More technically, you feel the fake gravity force because there is an acceleration. The acceleration is due to a force. What your speed / direction are do not matter. Whenever the ships rockets fire, a force from the floor comes, regardless of anything else (aside from some other ship pushing your ship laterally or something). Vehementi fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 23:48
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Professor Shark posted:When you're moving towards something, your head is pointing towards it. When you slow down, the ship flips and your head is still pointed towards it, but you're walking on the ceiling because th engine is now facing towards whatever you're moving towards... But the engine is always going to be 'below' you, so when the ship flips and decelerates, the acceleration still feels like normal gravity even though the thrust is now pushing towards the destination. I hope that made sense, I think I buggered that explanation. Basically in a ship built like a building thrust is always 'up' so the acceleration is always gravity 'down' because you rotate with the ship.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:49
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Servetus posted:I think the problem is that every cubic foot of air is a cubic foot that has to be protected against radiation and enemy fire, and armour imposes a mass penalty. It's not just the hanger a lot of the rooms were bigger than they needed to be. I think you're right in that the Donnager is the flagship and having spacious rooms is basically another way of flaunting Martian superiority, that they can afford to be so spacious and wasteful with their flagship's design. Or they just wanted practical sets designs for filming
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Dec 19, 2015 23:49
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"Gravity" will always be in the direction of thrust. The only places where there's tables and stuff on the ceilings are in old belter bars from before Ceres had spin (I think).
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Dec 19, 2015 23:50
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Vehementi posted:In a car if there is acceleration you want it to be into the seat. When a car speeds up, you get pushed into your seat. So far so good. What if, when the car was going to come to a screeching halt, the car's wheels turned to ice for a second and it did a 180, and then slammed on the brakes? You'd get pushed in the same direction as before with respect to the road, but now you'd be happily being pushed into your seat again. Same thing with the ship. I just used this post alongside my empty beer bottle and it makes sense to me now
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Dec 19, 2015 23:51
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Professor Shark posted:The floors don't become the walls, the ceiling become the floors when the ship flips. No. Floors are floors because they are flipped during decelleration. gohmak fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 19, 2015 23:53
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The whole 'constant acceleration' thing works as far as explaining why everyone doesn't have horrendous bone deterioration from long-term zero-g, but god drat the fuel costs. I guess that's why these Epstein drive things got written up, eh?
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Dec 19, 2015 23:55
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WarLocke posted:The whole 'constant acceleration' thing works as far as explaining why everyone doesn't have horrendous bone deterioration from long-term zero-g, but god drat the fuel costs. I guess that's why these Epstein drive things got written up, eh? I think the math comes out the same? Either you get inertial dampeners so your dudes aren't pancakes and you accelerate quickly to maximum velocity (what would that even be?) and then later decelerate, or you accelerate slowly to maximum speed halfway through and then decelerate. edit: oh, fuel mass Vehementi fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 00:00
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Professor Shark posted:It does a 180 and the engine works as the breaks, but if you do a 180 then you are walking on the ceiling as the ship slows... ? The only time the ceiling would be the floor is on ships that have the engines flip or moved to the otherside of the ship for deceleration. I think Revelation Space series had ships with an ice sheet on one side to protect from interstellar debris at near C so the engines would rotate for deceleration so that the same side with the shield would always be facing the direction of travel. gohmak fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 00:13
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WarLocke posted:The whole 'constant acceleration' thing works as far as explaining why everyone doesn't have horrendous bone deterioration from long-term zero-g, but god drat the fuel costs. I guess that's why these Epstein drive things got written up, eh? Pretty sure everyone is on crazy pharmaceuticals to prevent bone deterioration and other horrid space afflictions.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:14
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This TV show fills one with the desire to play SPACE STATION 13!
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Dec 20, 2015 00:24
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Servetus posted:No the ability to create enough Specific Impulse velocity to be able to reach other bodies in the solar system in an amount of time short enough to keep things interesting, with enough thrust to make high acceleration combat manoeuvres, and yet not be throwing off so much energy as to count as a weapon of mass destruction is pretty much close to magical. It's just that virtually every space science fiction TV show need to have engines that can do all that. There's nothing physically impossible about the Epstein drive except that last part, and to be fair I don't think we've seen one turn on close enough to do damage. Its mentioned in the first episode that the Knight leaves the Canterbury "teakettle" in the books this is explained as using the fusion reactor to boil water and propel themselves with the steam, rather then risk lighting the torch and damaging the Cant. Also Holden tells Alex that if something goes wrong at the Scopuli they'll burn for the Cant and leave slag behind, presumably because the drive melted the Scopuli.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:56
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pugnax posted:
God I hope so. I need for this show to be a success because as much as I enjoy reading The Expanse, there is so much better Scifi novels out there to adapt. gohmak fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 05:06
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Well I just watched the first episode after discovering this thread and I thought it was decent. Didn't really connect yet with the characters but the sets and effects were pretty decent. If they can get a decent story together and the characters get a little depth this could get interesting
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Dec 20, 2015 11:38
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Revelation Space would be amazing, I can't help but think that it would need a huge effects budget though, Game of Thrones level and then some.
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Dec 20, 2015 14:17
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As long they skip that religious trek on the ice planet.
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Dec 20, 2015 15:40
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Zzulu posted:Well I just watched the first episode after discovering this thread and I thought it was decent. Didn't really connect yet with the characters but the sets and effects were pretty decent. If they can get a decent story together and the characters get a little depth this could get interesting Get to episode 4
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Dec 20, 2015 19:16
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Combat Pretzel posted:As long they skip that religious trek on the ice planet. You tripping. Quaiche and the moving Cathedrals are the poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:18
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Zzulu posted:Well I just watched the first episode after discovering this thread and I thought it was decent. Didn't really connect yet with the characters but the sets and effects were pretty decent. If they can get a decent story together and the characters get a little depth this could get interesting E2 was a little slow, but E3 and 4 are the poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:44
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gohmak posted:You tripping. Quaiche and the moving Cathedrals are the poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2015 19:46
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JUICY HAMBUGAR posted:Revelation Space would be amazing, I can't help but think that it would need a huge effects budget though, Game of Thrones level and then some. I am trying to imagine how the ending of the series would look in a visual medium and I think I'm just confusing myself. And yeah, the permanently moving religious arcology with the guy suspended at the top and his eyes surgically peeled open eternally stuff would need to be cut down a lot, it was the sloggiest part of the books IMO.
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Dec 20, 2015 21:00
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Really liking this show so far. Anyone spot the reference to Alien? condition zero procedure screen on the donnager is formatted identically to the nostromo self destruct sequence
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Dec 20, 2015 21:42
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Yeah someone posted the comparison screenshot a couple of pages back, cool poo poo
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Dec 20, 2015 21:47
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drat, I went back like 4 pages and saw nothing. I also really appreciated the morbid attention to detail on the zero-g partial vacuum decapitation
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Dec 20, 2015 21:49
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