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Vehementi posted:It's okay guys, it's ok for a light saber duel to be both well choreographed and have meaning. Liking some of the PT battles because they were flashy and exciting doesn't mean you liked the movies as a whole or thought that flashy and exciting is more important than meaning. Correctly acknowledging the awfulness of the ANH duel choreography doesn't mean you're missing the point about what the scene was about. P much. Why are people so vehemently against having good choreography in a fighting scene? It's as though they forgot how bad the acting was in general under GL. Perhaps the directing is good while also have good choreography and you end up with an emotional fight scene that also looks good. Not saying the fighting in TFA was bad, it looked good, I simply made a criticism that they went back to being stiff and suddenly everyone acts like I poo poo the bed. SnoochtotheNooch fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Dec 20, 2015 |
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Dec 20, 2015 23:50
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Yea they put a half-rear end effort into it, then almost immediately go laser-sword flurry time. I'm thinking of empire when vader is just pelting luke with poo poo, do that with some sword play instead of the acrobatics.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:52
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raditts posted:The Raid was well choreographed, the action scenes were interesting and carried weight, and the fighters had visibly impressive technique. None of which you could say for PT battles. Sure I could. Ray Park is a very talented man.
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Dec 20, 2015 23:55
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raditts posted:So, you know, you could come up with some defense of why they're good or memorable, or resort to some lameass "hurf durf it's cause you weren't 12" standby you learned from a webcomic. A webcomic? I understood it from the day Phantom Menace came out. Saw the lines for the film and said "Most of these people will be disappointed because they aren't kids anymore". Sure enough, that's what happened. The prequels are good and memorable. The original trilogy is good and memorable (well, the special editions are, the original versions are way too hokey for my taste). The new movies are good and memorable.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:02
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MisterBibs posted:The prequels are good and memorable. The original trilogy is good and memorable (well, the special editions are, the original versions are way too hokey for my taste). Oh, oh he-hey, I see what's happening here.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:03
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Crow_Robot posted:Oh, oh he-hey, I see what's happening here. Yeah, not falling for that one. cargohills posted:Sure I could. Ray Park is a very talented man. And yet he couldn't save anything about the GI Joe movies either. raditts fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 00:11
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Tipped his hand a bit too hard with that, I agree.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:16
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Crow_Robot posted:Oh, oh he-hey, I see what's happening here. It's MisterBibs. Don't even try.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:17
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Crow_Robot posted:Oh, oh he-hey, I see what's happening here. Bibs is the kind of person that might genuinely believe that.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:17
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I'm glad you guys are understanding it, because I sure as hell can't figure out what you're talking about. Maybe hokey wasn't the best word for it, but there's no way in hell I'd watch the VHS copies I still have somewhere when I've got better/cleaner/whatever BRs to watch. edit: my 'gimmick' is simply being honest about Star Wars, man. No reason to watch an unrestored version of a movie when you've got a better one. I'll give you that Jabba looked a bit wonky in the '97 version, but I don't watch that one either since that one isn't the BR version. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 00:19
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^ No, dude, they're not understanding your point, they're understanding your gimmick. The CGI-enhanced original trilogy is the hokey one. Parmesan Basil posted:I give the film a 7/10. It was good and I liked the new kids but I hated the garbage not Death Star and the stupid fake trench they have to go down. The third act was a little weak as a whole but it was loads better than the prequels so yay. I feel the same way. I like the cast, I like the characters, I think visually and tonally it's the Star Wars I was hoping for. I also think that essentially repeating the plot of A New Hope verbatim was a pretty big misstep. I liked it enough to look forward to the next one, though.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:19
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I think the problem with the laser sword fights in the PT is that most of them are so elaborately, flamboyantly choreographed that it doesn't look like they're trying to kill each other (I think the latter part of the Obi-Wan-Darth Maul fight is an exception, and it's easily the best fight in the prequels). That's never a problem in Empire and Jedi, even in fights where they're not actually trying to kill each other.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:21
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Frackie Robinson posted:I think the problem with the laser sword fights in the PT is that most of them are so elaborately, flamboyantly choreographed that it doesn't look like they're trying to kill each other (I think the latter part of the Obi-Wan-Darth Maul fight is an exception, and it's easily the best fight in the prequels). That's never a problem in Empire and Jedi, even in fights where they're not actually trying to kill each other. I also think one of the problems is that they're largely not personal. Obi-Wan versus Maul was effective because Maul made it personal. Obi-Wan versus Anakin started out personal but eventually it was all lost in the flash and the yell-what-I'm-thinking dialog. The fights are just flash included for the sake of some action--they're rarely people fighting for a reason they care deeply about. Every duel in the original trilogy is personal, between two people who clearly have feelings about one another and what they're fighting about. That's true in TFA, too, which I appreciated.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:25
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Frackie Robinson posted:I think the problem with the laser sword fights in the PT is that most of them are so elaborately, flamboyantly choreographed that it doesn't look like they're trying to kill each other (I think the latter part of the Obi-Wan-Darth Maul fight is an exception, and it's easily the best fight in the prequels). That's never a problem in Empire and Jedi, even in fights where they're not actually trying to kill each other. Right, they take it way too far in the other direction, so they just look like something that belongs in Star Wars On Ice.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:25
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If the lightsaber duel between Rey/Finn and Ren happened BEFORE Han died, it wouldn't make any sense. Finn is still in his "run away from danger and take Rey with him" mode, and Rey still doesn't want to deal with the lightsaber or Ren. But after they both watched Ren kill Han, they both had a bone to pick with him, making them have a reason to fight Ren, other than him just getting in their way. Its good. ITS GOOD.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:29
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PaganGoatPants posted:And he repeatedly hits himself in his wound to use the pain. This was what sold me on the character, even though he's always looking seconds away from blurting "so what's the deal with airline food??" whenever his mask is off. I still see it as him being frustrated at his inability to endure the pain, not as a way to get 10% spell power with Dark Side powers during the fight.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:35
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:You're not even addressing what I've been saying. Shut up with your fan boy excuses for why its ok that the fighting has been dumbed down. I liked the characters, I liked the emotional fighting that we get in TFA back to what I'm saying, it doesnt make sense that suddenly jedi (kylo) who have been training in fighting sequences suddenly don't do that anymore and just hack at each other chaotically. I usually enjoy those dancing fights on first viewing, but the become tedious to watch on repeated viewings. Just my opinion.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:35
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Hazdoc posted:If the lightsaber duel between Rey/Finn and Ren happened BEFORE Han died, it wouldn't make any sense. Finn is still in his "run away from danger and take Rey with him" mode, and Rey still doesn't want to deal with the lightsaber or Ren. One thing that wasn't even that big of a deal was the fact the republic just got erased. It was kinda like a "oh drat that really sucks" moment in comparison to Han dying. I mean 5 or so planets just got completely destroyed and they spent maybe 1 minute caring about them.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:38
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MisterBibs posted:I'm glad you guys are understanding it, because I sure as hell can't figure out what you're talking about. Maybe hokey wasn't the best word for it, but there's no way in hell I'd watch the VHS copies I still have somewhere when I've got better/cleaner/whatever BRs to watch. That's what the fan made despecialized edition is for.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:39
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:One thing that wasn't even that big of a deal was the fact the republic just got erased. It was kinda like a "oh drat that really sucks" moment in comparison to Han dying. I mean 5 or so planets just got completely destroyed and they spent maybe 1 minute caring about them. That was probably the weakest part of the movie for me. First: if you're going to blow up entire planets for drama, use the drama. Second: if that really was the entire Republic, that should be a huge loving deal. Billions of people died, the Resistance is in an insane amount of trouble, everything they've been fighting for just got erased. How was that not an absolutely massive deal? I think what I enjoyed about the movie was the tone, the new characters, and the sense that, yes, this is some faithful Star Wars. But god drat that moment just sours the whole plot for me.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:42
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One thing for when Snoake appears in person that I hope they crib from Rebels is that being around a powerful darksider can make force users almost physically ill.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:43
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Harrow posted:That was probably the weakest part of the movie for me. Everything to do with the giant Death Star really doesn't fit at all. The only benefit as best I can tell is giving Poe Dameron something to do after the rescue on the jungle planet.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:44
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Harrow posted:That was probably the weakest part of the movie for me. Exactly. *watches multiple planets blow up and knows that's the entire republic* "Oh gently caress" *watches Han die* "NOW you're gonna get it!"
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Dec 21, 2015 00:46
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Is "blow up some planets" just part of J.J. Abrams's "take over a beloved franchise" playbook? I'm not disappointed, at least. I liked the movie and the new setup enough that I'm looking forward to the next one. But the plot of this one is kind of just warmed-over garbage most of the time.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:48
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Exactly. Are you more upset about Darfur war orphans or a person close to you dying? Is this really a conversation?
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Dec 21, 2015 00:48
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The planets didn't have plot armour. Han Solo was supposed to have, he cut right through it, and now they're scared.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:48
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Exactly. I agree that the destruction of the Republic ought to carry a lot more weight in the movie, but it makes sense that Rey and Finn as characters are more affected by Han's death than by the deaths of billions of people they don't know. What had more of an impact on you, when a grandparent died or 9/11? edit: beaten
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Dec 21, 2015 00:50
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Yeah, the Death Star EX: NO WEAK POINTS THIS TIME EDITION was kind of lame. Blowing up a bunch of planets and not giving it more gravity certainly sucks too, people bemoaned the fate of Alderaan in A New Hope, but nothing here. Hopefully we see more mention of it in 8. Like, maybe Leia makes a speech to new recruits talking about why they have the stop the order, or recruits saying "I joined because my planet was blown up while I was away", etc. Though it was kinda cool that when the Death Star EX: OOPS GUESS THERE -WAS- A WEAK SPOT WELP blew up it became a star.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:50
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cosmicjim posted:Are you more upset about Darfur war orphans or a person close to you dying? Frackie Robinson posted:I agree that the destruction of the Republic ought to carry a lot more weight in the movie, but it makes sense that Rey and Finn as characters are more affected by Han's death than by the deaths of billions of people they don't know. What had more of an impact on you, when a grandparent died or 9/11? This is true for Rey and Finn, but we're not even introduced to the Resistance (Leia included) until after the Republic is blown up. They barely even mention it, except as an indication that they're the next target. That's what was so off about it to me. Blowing up those planets represented blowing up everything they'd been fighting for for years--how is everyone, to a person, able to keep a level head just hours after that?
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Dec 21, 2015 00:53
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When Rey gets the lightsaber instead of Kylo the theme plays that is the same as when Luke sees dead Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru (why are they SO dead? i.e. burnt to skeletons? How did that happen? Stormtrooper blasters don't do that). So maybe she is THEIR child/grandchild  Though most likely it represents Rey's threshold crossing in symphony with Luke's.
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Dec 21, 2015 00:58
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Wank posted:When Rey gets the lightsaber instead of Kylo the theme plays that is the same as when Luke sees dead Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru (why are they SO dead? i.e. burnt to skeletons? How did that happen? Stormtrooper blasters don't do that). So maybe she is THEIR child/grandchild Out of all the Star Wars movies, OT, PT, ST the burnt to a crisp corpses of Luke's aunt and uncle are still the weirdest loving thing in all the movies. Like, why.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:00
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cosmicjim posted:Are you more upset about Darfur war orphans or a person close to you dying? Maybe to you he's close. They knew him for less than a week. The republic isn't dar fur. It's the last remaining shred of the way things were before the empire became a thing.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:00
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Harrow posted:This is true for Rey and Finn, but we're not even introduced to the Resistance (Leia included) until after the Republic is blown up. They barely even mention it, except as an indication that they're the next target. That's what was so off about it to me. Blowing up those planets represented blowing up everything they'd been fighting for for years--how is everyone, to a person, able to keep a level head just hours after that? Because we are seeing the military side of things. We aren't seeing Joe Blow on the street. SnoochtotheNooch posted:Maybe to you he's close. Specifically choosing Darfur was a joke. The sentiment still stands. Han was a legend. Imagine meeting one of your favorite celebrities and then spending all your time with him for a whole week and then he's suddenly murdered. People already weep over celebrities they don't know. cosmicjim fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 01:01
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Crow_Robot posted:Out of all the Star Wars movies, OT, PT, ST
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Dec 21, 2015 01:04
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Doc Morbid posted:I always just figured the stormtroopers shot them and then burned the bodies when they torched the farm. It makes sense it's just so out of place compared to every other death/corpse in all of the movies. We're not shown that the Stormtroopers make a habit out of burning corpses or anything.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:06
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Wank posted:When Rey gets the lightsaber instead of Kylo the theme plays that is the same as when Luke sees dead Uncle Owen/Aunt Beru (why are they SO dead? i.e. burnt to skeletons? How did that happen? Stormtrooper blasters don't do that). So maybe she is THEIR child/grandchild
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Dec 21, 2015 01:07
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Starkiller base is a prime example of epicness that really have shouldn't be in a story climaxing around 2 raw force users trying to kill each other because of Han Solo dying. It worked in ANH because the story was built up to blow up the Death Star and it also worked in ROTJ because the Emperor who is the ultimate villain was on board.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:08
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Maybe to you he's close. Rey and Finn wouldn't have ever cared about the Republic at all up to that point in their lives.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:08
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cosmicjim posted:Because we are seeing the military side of things. We aren't seeing Joe Blow on the street. Soldiers are people, though. Like, I imagine if you were on an American military base mere hours after they get news that most of the United States had been nuked, it would be a topic of conversation, y'know?
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Dec 21, 2015 01:08
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Haha, I love the image of the audience in the theater going nuts and cheering as yoda begins spinning and doing a bunch of crazy poo poo on screen. You sitting quietly in the excited crowd feeling sick to your stomach as you witness your little green Jedi master hero fight with a lightsaber because you know better than these idiots that even though he's a Jedi master he would never fight with a lightsaber because he's a puppet. To me, the scene was appalling because it looked so silly. What Yoda did to the two clones in the next film looked good, when he flipped over the top and beheaded them before they knew what had happened. But the Yoda vs. Darth Dracula saber fight was just too comical IMO. It's like it was MEANT to be funny, like the rabbit in Holy Grail. The part before that where they were using the Force to throw stuff around was great.
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Dec 21, 2015 01:09
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