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Lord Krangdar posted:You just wouldn't know how much the two are alike without the PT. From Kylo's point of view the sith are evil, though?
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Dec 21, 2015 08:01
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I will grant you that, despite not expressing an opinion on rock particles, his admiration of cgi Emperor Snookie suggests a love of the soft and smooth.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:03
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The part where Obi-Wan calls out to Rey during her vision when she touches the lightsaber introduces interesting possibilities. That wasn't a memory Anakin or Luke could've had. The dead, even those whom she never knew in life, are calling out to her. I hope it ends in a big ol' Force Ghost Parade with Liam Neeson as the guy in front waving a baton in Episode IX. Metaphorically.
Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 08:13
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Great film- lots of small quibbles but nothing too huge. I thought making Snoke look and talk exactly like Gollum was a huge mistake. So many cool directions they could have gone and that one just fell flat for me. I also thought a third desperate raid on a Death Star resulting in its complete destruction was really tired. I mean poo poo, when are the Bad Guys going to figure out that the cost/benefit ratio for those things is a bit high? There's always a convenient outhouse than can be blown up with a grenade to destroy a planetary construction effort. On the good side, I thought Daisy Ridley was really great in the role. She played it very understated and her transition to proto-Jedi bad rear end was really fun to watch. Ren was also really well cast. The moment he paused and looked at Finn before he defected was my favorite moment of the film. So much said on screen with the briefest glance. So what's the prevailing theory? Is Rey Luke's daughter?
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Dec 21, 2015 08:24
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Unzip and Attack posted:So what's the prevailing theory? Is Rey Luke's daughter? That is the most annoyingly common one. I don't think it's well-supported. The only thing that suggests that Rey has prior connections to any established character is subtext, and that same subtext specifically distinguishes Luke from her family. The line is that she knows her family is never returning, but someone else (e.g. Luke) might return instead. Plus, it'd be a huge dick move to abandon a kid on a planet worse than Tatooine in the care of a junk dealer worse than Watto, and while Obi-Wan might have been that much of a dick, a large part of the original trilogy was about how Luke was not as much of a dick as Obi-Wan. It'd be a somewhat awkward development.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:31
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Kylo Rens lightsaber looks like the kind of lightsaber someone makes in a hurry just so they could have a cool and badass thing to kill people with because he wasn't allowed to have one. Like I can picture Kylo Ren being 16 or whatever and getting fed up that he hasn't been taught how to build one by Luke. So he goes and makes one himself without any guidance and shows up out of nowhere with it one night with the rest of the Knights of Ren and goes buck wild on the school. Maybe him and the rest of the Knights of Ren were pupils of Luke who got tempted by the Dark Side and follow Kylo because he was the first of the them to take some initiative and make himself a shiv. edit: I have no idea what to spoiler tag anymore so I'm just gonna black out a chunk. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 08:33
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One of the great things about this film was that it really did leave me wanting to know more- mainly about Ren's fall and who Snoke is. I haven't had that feeling about Star Wars since I was a kid. None of the prequels scratched that itch at all.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:41
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Saw it and really liked it. The only thing I wish they had done differently was have Rey use a bit of the dark side when she fought Kylo Ren, kind of how Luke gets angry when he beats Vader in VI. The dark side is supposed to be easier to use and it's not like she didn't have a reason to be angry. I think getting Kylo getting beaten by the dark side after spending the whole movie trying to be Darth Vader would have been great as well.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:42
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I hope that Snoke actually is that big in person. It's too boring and predictable for him to be a Wizard of Oz-style man behind the curtain who's actually a weak little coward when he has to face someone in person. I hope he's an extremely evil, badass giant that catches the heroes completely off guard when they confront him.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:45
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MrSmokes posted:I hope that Snoke actually is that big in person. It's too boring and predictable for him to be a Wizard of Oz-style man behind the curtain who's actually a weak little coward when he has to face someone in person. I hope he's an extremely evil, badass giant that catches the heroes completely off guard when they confront him. Instead of the traditional hand or arm they can cut off one of his fingers during the climactic battle.
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Dec 21, 2015 08:55
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I think, regarding Rey's past that she was left of Jakku by Kylo Ren. I think she was a youngling, too young even to remember most of it, and Kylo spared her. This is an example of a previous time he 'felt the call of the light' and for Snoke to not fully trust his commitment. Why he spared her is uncertain, but if she is related to him it would make sense. It would also explain Kylo wanting to know 'WHAT GIRL?' and wanting to train her. It also explains the look on her face when he says he can show her the ways of the force. It strikes a chord. She's heard those words before but forgotten. Finally, it makes her sudden Force skill explicable. She HAS had training, but forgotten or repressed the memories, which is also went the saber vision is unpleasant. She could even be Kylo's little sister who was sent to Luke with him or Luke's kid. Leia and Han don't mention her because Luke thought Kylo killed her. Who can talk about that? They focus instead on their son, because he's alive still. Leia and Han both may have an inkling, but Han didn't have time to investigate and didn't want to get too hopeful. It explains his abrupt fondness for her. Leia may know by the time she meets her. She does approach and hug a person she's never met in shared sadness that she could only sense through the Force. Finally, and I've predicted this before the film came out, Kylo may be such a Vader cosplayer that he dumped Rey on Jakku, regardless of parentage, because he wanted to make a Luke for him to try and turn later.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:05
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Well, as a minor point in all that, in the lightsaber duel, Snoke ordered him to capture her and bring her to him for training, which is why he made that offer.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:07
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Bongo Bill posted:Well, as a minor point in all that, in the lightsaber duel, Snoke ordered him to capture her and bring her to him for training, which is why he made that offer. True, but it felt to me a little like Vader offering Luke the opportunity to depose the Emporer. He has also just been told by Han that Snoke would use him up and discard him. Same as Vaders motivation to train Luke himself and take over.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:10
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Deathstar: This time it actually did pretty well, like their first shot took out the entire republic, and with half a minute to go they would have taken out the entire resistance too!
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Dec 21, 2015 09:14
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Lunatic Pathos posted:True, but it felt to me a little like Vader offering Luke the opportunity to depose the Emporer. He has also just been told by Han that Snoke would use him up and discard him. Same as Vaders motivation to train Luke himself and take over. He killed Han to reaffirm to himself his faith in Snoke and his ethical commitment to the Dark Side. He seems desperately loyal, and I'm interested to learn why. That loyalty is a big difference between himself and his grandfather, and a big difference between his understanding of his grandfather and the truth. Very few people knew Vader was plotting against the Emperor.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:15
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Bongo Bill posted:He killed Han to reaffirm to himself his faith in Snoke and his ethical commitment to the Dark Side. He seems desperately loyal, and I'm interested to learn why. That loyalty is a big difference between himself and his grandfather, and a big difference between his understanding of his grandfather and the truth. Very few people knew Vader was plotting against the Emperor. He's full of Catholic force guilt. He wants to be the best possible follower of a man he thinks was divine, but he keeps loving up and not being good enough to warrant his admiration. He wants to be the best follower of the force pope
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Dec 21, 2015 09:18
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TerminalSaint posted:Don't you hate it when you wait 30 years for a movie, and then when you go to see it, the lady sitting next to you is one of those people who somehow made it to middle-age having never learned that you're not supposed to vocalize every thought that enters your brain in a theater? i got to sit next to a chick who had her boyfriends hand basically up her vagina so you didnt get it too bad.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:35
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:i got to sit next to a chick who had her boyfriends hand basically up her vagina so you didnt get it too bad. Nice. I got to sit behind a kid who was super into the movie. It was honestly my favorite part of going to see the movie.
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Dec 21, 2015 09:41
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Here's some political background info from the visual guide if you need it to help understand what the opening crawl referred to. Peace Interrupted After Years of Rebellion, the death of Emperor Palpatine gave the oppressed peoples of the galaxy undeniable evidence that the Empire could be defeated. A longing for freedom and peace drove a great tide of revolution from sector to sector, to the point where a truce - unthinkable at the height of the Galactic Civil War - was signed between the New Republic and the weakenend Empire. As one of its first acts, the restored Senate promptly passed the Military Disarmament Act. Many were convinced that the age of galaxy-wide conflict was over. The New Republic Following its great victory against the empire at the Battle of Endor, the Alliance to Restore the Republic rebranded itself as the New Republic, and shortly afterward a peace treaty - the Galactic Concordance - was signed with the remnants of the Empire. Believing that the Empire was no longer a threat, the New Republic turned its attention to reshaping galactic politics. The First Order The Galactic Concordance defanged the Empire's ability to wage war, with strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. The Old Empire withered away, becoming a remnant of political hardliners locked in a cold war with the New Republic, before eventually breaking away to reform in the Unknown Regions as the myseterious First Order. The Resistance The Resistance is a small private force created by Princess Leia Organa to keep watch on the movements of the First Order. Though she petitions the New Republic government for support, she finds the politics of the Senate too slow and too mired in self-interest to be of any help. The New Republic tolerates the Resistance, though it is wary of risking war with the First Order.
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Dec 21, 2015 10:37
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Josh Lyman posted:It just processed for me that Lucas didn't write, direct, or produce ESB. In retrospect, it's surprising anyone would have thought the prequels would be good. What? He totally produced it. He also came up with the story, and was on set for the majority of it.
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Dec 21, 2015 10:39
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He executive produced it, which isn't what people mean when they say producer.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:00
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How involved an Executive Producer is varies massively from film to film.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:02
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Bongo Bill posted:The part where Obi-Wan calls out to Rey during her vision when she touches the lightsaber introduces interesting possibilities. That wasn't a memory Anakin or Luke could've had. The dead, even those whom she never knew in life, are calling out to her. I hope it ends in a big ol' Force Ghost Parade with Liam Neeson as the guy in front waving a baton in Episode IX. Metaphorically. It's pretty cool that you can hear Sir Alec Guiness saying "Rey" as well. They used a recording of him saying "afraid".
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Dec 21, 2015 11:08
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punchymcpunch posted:He executive produced it, which isn't what people mean when they say producer.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:26
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Nessus posted:So what do people actually mean when they say producer? They mean the specific role of "producer" - in general the producer is the person who does the actual day to day film producer stuff, and the executive producer handles the financing. So when you see Steven Spielberg credited as exec producer on Transformers, that just means he financed it. I say in general because I'm sure Lucas was way more hands-on than that. Nevertheless, it's totally valid to say that "Lucas didn't produce the movie" because he isn't the credited producer, Gary Kurtz is.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:51
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punchymcpunch posted:
The thing is, the poster was trying to imply that Lucas had absolutely nothing to do with ESB, except finance it, which is bullshit.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:56
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Davros1 posted:The thing is, the poster was trying to imply that Lucas had absolutely nothing to do with ESB, except finance it, which is bullshit.
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Dec 21, 2015 11:58
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I heard Harrison Ford got Lucas fired and then ghostdirected the movie.
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Dec 21, 2015 12:02
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Denis Lawson was the inside man for Fox, which is the only reason Wedge survived all three films.
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Dec 21, 2015 12:04
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The main point against Luke being Rey's father seems to be that leaving any child on Jakku would have been a vile scummy thing to do, and Luke wouldn't be that vile and scummy. And it's a reasonable point. But I don't think we can so easily disregard the fact Luke hosed up big with his new Jedi Order and it's probably been loving with his mindset for the past however many years. Having your own nephew murder all your other students (if I'm reading this right) is not exactly a small incidental thing. Perhaps Ren even killed Luke's wife. If I were Luke, I would start to think that my own family line is cursed. I would start to think that the way that Yoda and Obi-Wan's Jedi Order did things -- no family attachments -- was the only real way to prevent disaster, considering that it was a "Skywalker" with family attachments who destroyed the Jedi Order in both cases. Is it really so hard to imagine that, in his most despondent moments, Luke might've convinced himself that the best thing for his own child would be to send them as far away from himself as possible? If we're to treat the "Luke's daughter" theory with any weight, then the premise wouldn't be a replica of the Obi-Wan/Luke/Tattooine scenario at all, wherein Luke was always some secret weapon that Obi-Wan was keeping up his sleeve. It would be that Luke truly, fiercely never wanted to see Rey ever again. The fact that she would show up on his secret island vacation home is something he would have dreaded and hoped against in the manner of all deadbeat dads, which jibes with the expressions he was making during that scene. Of course, it's all speculative, and I do agree that there's stuff in the film which makes the theory more far-fetched than it isn't. The fact that Rey genuinely didn't seem to know Luke Skywalker exists puts a major damper on her being his daughter...honestly, Rey thinking that Luke is a legend is probably a bigger case against the theory than the idea that Luke wouldn't leave his child on Jakku. But it's easy to work around if we rejigger the timeline a bit. We're all assuming that the flashback of Rey as a child took place around the time Kylo Ren turned against Luke. But what if the two events happened further apart? What if Ren turned against Luke when Rey was a baby, and he was forced to give her up to another family that she grew up with for five or six years? She would think of those people as her family and wouldn't know Luke at all. And if that family was a little less scrupulous than Luke expected, then they may very well have left her on her own after raising her for a couple years. So in this theory, Rey would be a child Luke gave up, for her own protection, but that was abandoned by her foster family without Luke's knowledge. It would explain Rey thinking of Luke as a legend, and Han and Leia not recognizing her.   
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Dec 21, 2015 12:16
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Just saw the film. Didn't live up to the hype. Adam Driver both in acting and character was too jarring for me, no matter what his subtext was. Decent enough film however, pretty entertaining and I'll probably re-watch it in 3D Imax for optimum pew pews. But in no way is this any higher than 7/10 in Jamsta, king of the internets, opinion. EpIV 4 Lyfe, JJ is a hack, etc. etc.
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Dec 21, 2015 12:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9VVkwRb_7M
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Dec 21, 2015 12:26
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I really hope that rumor about Hayden Christensen returning for Episode 8, likely as a force ghost, is real.
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Dec 21, 2015 12:34
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The MSJ posted:I really hope that rumor about Hayden Christensen returning for Episode 8, likely as a force ghost, is real. This but completely unironically and not in a "for the lulz because the prequels were bad" reason. I think him showing up to talk to Kylo or Luke or Rey would be incredibly interesting
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Dec 21, 2015 12:47
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Jamsta posted:Just saw the film. Didn't live up to the hype. Adam Driver both in acting and character was too jarring for me, no matter what his subtext was. I saw it in 3D and spent quite a lot of the movie wishing I'd gone for 2D. Don't get me wrong there were a few excellent 3D shots but it suffers from the problem of all post conversions: it wasn't shot for 3D so its mostly pointless. At it's worst it made some scenes feel like i was watching minatures.
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Dec 21, 2015 12:50
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therobotking posted:I saw it in 3D and spent quite a lot of the movie wishing I'd gone for 2D. Don't get me wrong there were a few excellent 3D shots but it suffers from the problem of all post conversions: it wasn't shot for 3D so its mostly pointless. At it's worst it made some scenes feel like i was watching minatures. Thanks for the headsup, I may just opt for standard Imax 2D.
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Dec 21, 2015 13:01
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I'm like 99% sure that Rey is actually Darth Revan
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Dec 21, 2015 13:08
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Cnut the Great posted:“George is Luke”
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Dec 21, 2015 13:27
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Krowley posted:I'm like 99% sure that Rey is actually Darth Revan It fits, because Supreme Leader Snoke is clearly Darth Sion
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Dec 21, 2015 13:49
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therobotking posted:I saw it in 3D and spent quite a lot of the movie wishing I'd gone for 2D. Don't get me wrong there were a few excellent 3D shots but it suffers from the problem of all post conversions: it wasn't shot for 3D so its mostly pointless. At it's worst it made some scenes feel like i was watching minatures. I saw it twice in 3D. The first time, after preordering a reserved seat, I was mistakenly stuck in the first row and was practically under the screen. So I thought the distorted viewing caused me to miss to much. After a second round of 3D, you are absolutely right. The 2D is the way to go, for sure.
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Dec 21, 2015 13:53
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