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they'd probably just need to add a golden city alternative and then an alternative to the final endgame area. the rest of the steps could be incorporated in the earlier levels, just like the steps for the already existing path are. given how there's so many ways to access special levels baked into the normal levels themselves and going into them advances what level you're on, offering a choice of special level probably wouldn't be much of an issue.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:34
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Players don't want smart AI, and designers shouldn't just dump smart AI in. The players want a challenge that they can overcome. Good example is any pen&paper game, because as the DM you can make a fight that the enemies set up with a plan based on them spying on the party and absolutely destroy them all, but that isn't fun. Instead you build up to that ambush, give players ways to figure out it is coming or mitigate it, you make sure the tuning on the actual ambush isn't going to spike anyone into the ground, make some contingency stuff to keep the tension up if needed, and fire the thing off. I guess you're trying to make an AI that can function like a DM does, but that is a really hard problem to solve and one that you're probably not going to seem come from games. More like someone eventually makes some sort of generic "game AI" and licenses it out like a game engine. The other guy was also spot on that what you expect the encounter to accomplish is vastly different from the players. If you approach your AI with the idea that some of the d&d encounter per day ideas, you get a sort of "this fight should take up roughly X% of the party's resources (hp/mp/items/whatever)". Still takes a lot of tuning and you need to make sure that the enemy being smart isn't just frustrating to play against.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:52
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Caves of Qud worthwhile while it's still in Early Access, or should I just wait until it is fully complete and released?
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Dec 22, 2015 21:54
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Definitely worthwhile. There is a ridiculous amount of content and depth even in its unfinished state, and it has a pretty unique setting.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:08
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Sneak peak at the results... 20 people voted for Caves of Qud and 13 of them had it in their top 3. It's a well loved game on here.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:10
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Steam holiday sales are up, gonna keep an eye out for those roguelikes that I don't own yet
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Dec 22, 2015 22:31
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Alright so I'll be posting results of the poll over the next few days. The voting results overview: We had 42 lists submitted, and 88 games received at least one vote (89 if you count X:Com. I may have been too quick to remove it from the votes. I'll play it over the holidays and think about it some more.) Games have been assigned points using a simple scoring system. #1 = 4 points, #2-3 = 3 points, #4-5 = 2 points, anything else = 1 point. I'll be ordering them by the number of votes they receive, sorted by the quality of the vote. I'm going to try to do little blurbs for each game as we get into the more popular stuff, because at the end of the day this is all in preparation for a new thread, but I invite anyone to post their own if they didn't already share their thoughts about the game in their own list. Let's start off with the various games that made honourable mention lists (sometimes one, sometimes more) but didn't receive any votes. I was going to divide them into categories but tbh they're all over the board. You've got console games like Toejam & Earl and Azure Dreams, platformers like Vertical Drop Heroes HD, and more traditional ASCII roguelikes like Incursion. These are games worth looking at. Maybe next time we do this, you'll be the one voting them onto big list! Azure Dreams Toejam & Earl Depths of Tolagal Magicite One More Dungeon 868-HACK Heavy Bullets Catacomb Kids Rogue Survivor Approaching Infinity Fatal Labyrinth Meritous KeeperRL Incursion Quest of Dungeons Road Not Taken TinyKeep Steam Marines Vertical Drop Heroes HD Red Rogue Castle of the Winds Abyss Odyssey Sunless Sea (If you posted or sent me a list, I'm going to be giving away steam keys. I'll post the google doc link to the list of games when I get home. First come first serve type of thing. There are maybe 10 roguelike keys, but there are another ~350 to choose from because hey we like all kinds of games.)
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Dec 22, 2015 22:40
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packetmantis posted:What the hell is this? Does URR finally have gameplay?
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Dec 22, 2015 23:25
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If I hadn't been lazy and submitted a list, and had remembered how much time I spent on the Game Boy version of it, I absolutely would have listed Azure Dreams. That game was fantastic. I hear the PS1 version had more town building and only 30 floors instead of 130, that seems less good. Did anyone ever play it? Was it actually good/the better version/worth my time to track down?
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Dec 22, 2015 23:52
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DACK FAYDEN posted:If I hadn't been lazy and submitted a list, and had remembered how much time I spent on the Game Boy version of it, I absolutely would have listed Azure Dreams. That game was fantastic. I hear the PS1 version had more town building and only 30 floors instead of 130, that seems less good. Did anyone ever play it? Was it actually good/the better version/worth my time to track down? Ya i played it on ps1 but it was too hard for 8yr old me. Maybe try a rom of it first.
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Dec 22, 2015 23:57
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DACK FAYDEN posted:If I hadn't been lazy and submitted a list, and had remembered how much time I spent on the Game Boy version of it, I absolutely would have listed Azure Dreams. That game was fantastic. I hear the PS1 version had more town building and only 30 floors instead of 130, that seems less good. Did anyone ever play it? Was it actually good/the better version/worth my time to track down? I had played and beaten it. It was a very good, time draining game that really got me into roguelikes. Even 30 floors felt hellishly long, but that's because the last few floors were filled with tremendously overpowered enemies, like full grown dragons. It was very fun, very hard, and the city building was a good downtime. It's also the only game I've bought all the stuff in, just to read the descriptions.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:02
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Steam ADOM got a patch today with a couple of interesting features:Thomas Biskup, yes really he said this posted:•ADOM now contains the option to freely select star signs. This provides even more enjoyment by allowing you to truly play the character combination you want. And here I just got on another TOME kick lately too after shelving it for a year-plus (doombringers mad OP). Lucky I have a week and a half off work and no family to visit for Christmas.
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Dec 23, 2015 00:05
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Thomas Biskup, yes really he said this posted posted:ADOM now contains the option to freely select star signs. This provides even more enjoyment by allowing you to truly play the character combination you want. Holy poo poo, and it only took what, 18 years?
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Dec 23, 2015 01:45
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Mystic Stylez posted:what are some good tips for someone starting with Invisible Inc.? picked it up some time ago as it was one of my most wanted games but never properly played it aside from the tutorials. Another tip is to not be afraid of killing guards. While doing so takes some credits away from you and accelerates the alarm level, a dead guard cannot ever be a threat to you again and does not need to be pinned and/or watched like a hawk.
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Dec 23, 2015 02:04
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Radioactive Toy posted:Caves of Qud worthwhile while it's still in Early Access, or should I just wait until it is fully complete and released? Angry Diplomat posted:Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT PLANTS. Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT ANIMALS. Get killed by ANGRY MUTANT BUGS. Kill a bear and EAT IT, just EAT AN ENTIRE BEAR. KILL EVERYTHING. Descend into the DEPTHS OF THE WORLD and retrieve ANCIENT TECHNOLOGICAL ARTIFACTS. KNIFE-FIGHT a GIANT DRILL ROBOT and WIN. Be a COOL WASTELAND KNIGHT. Be a TWO-FISTED COWBOY. Be a HOMICIDAL NINJA TURTLE with an AXE and a SHOTGUN. SPONTANEOUSLY BURST INTO FLAMES. Get into a GUNFIGHT with a HYENA-MONSTER and accidentally anger a HERD OF MAJESTIC HULKING DEMON HORSES with your crossfire. Fly into the air like a BEAUTIFUL EAGLE and then SWORD-FIGHT a GIANT DRAGONFLY. MIND CONTROL a TWO-HEADED BOAR and MAKE IT WEAR CHAIN MAIL and KILL YOUR ENEMIES. Encounter a LEGENDARY PLANT with an INTIMIDATING SKULL MASK and the ability to THROW FIERY DEATH FROM ITS HANDS. CONTRACT HORRIFYING DISEASES. Go to THE DEATHLANDS and discover that THE DEATHLANDS are called THE DEATHLANDS because they will KILL YOU DEAD. HACK OFF A ROBOT’S HEAD AND EAT IT. Get into a SLEDGEHAMMER DUEL with a ‘ROIDED-OUT SUPERCANNIBAL. Be SO TECHNOLOGICALLY ILLITERATE that you BREAK A BOX OF CRAYONS attempting to figure out what it is. Be SO TECHNOLOGICALLY GIFTED that you can make an ACID GRENADE out of a PLASTIC TREE and a FOLDING CHAIR. Build your own FLAMETHROWER. Build your own LASER GUN. Build your own HANDHELD NUCLEAR BOMB and BLOW YOURSELF UP WITH IT. Collect MAGMA in a CANTEEN. Pour MAGMA into a pool of ACID to see what happens. DRINK MAGMA. TELEPATHICALLY LOCATE an enemy and HATE IT TO DEATH with your TERRIFYING BRAIN SORCERY. Have your LEGS CUT OFF and then REGROW YOUR LEGS and pick up your previous legs and EAT YOUR OWN LEGS. Encounter your EVIL TWIN and then summon six of your own GOOD TWINS to fight your evil twin’s SIX EVIL TWIN TWINS in a FOURTEEN-WAY PSYCHIC LASER DEATH RAVE and then BURN TO DEATH when all of the combined PYROKINETIC MIND FIRE from all of the TIME CLONES causes the ENTIRE MAP TO COMBUST AND MELT. Yes it is awesome, get it. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 02:06
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Sergeant_Crunch posted:There's a roguelike that I can't remember the name of. It's a game about being a Spanish explorer setting out to colonize the new world. A big chunk of the game was actually sailing over to the Americas, but I think there was a colonization aspect to the game as well once you hit land. You would start in Spain and gather supplies for your expedition like in Oregon Trail. Then you would talk to the Queen to get funding for your expedition and set off. The sailing was pretty difficult and I never actually made it past that part. Does anyone know what the hell I'm thinking of? Santiago Zapata's Expedition Looking at his website, it looks like he has done / is doing quite a few more roguelikes and roguelites. EDIT: Whoops! That's what I get for not refreshing.  Alehkhs fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 02:12
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Jordan7hm posted:Oh yeah I ignored your list because I haven't logged it yet. I got this game and it's pretty fun. Unfortunately the in-game art style isn't anything like the stuff in the intro video, although there are some more (shorter) poems each time you kill a boss and advance to the next area. The dagger that does tons of bonus damage when attacking from behind is probably the most fun weapon so far. Although the Phoenix boss is hard as gently caress if you're relying on melee to kill it, so you better have some longer-range spells.
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Dec 23, 2015 03:57
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S.T.C.A. posted:Holy poo poo, and it only took what, 18 years? ADOM-Sage has had that since like 02/03 I want to say, it's just that the guy is a die-hard linux nerd and refuses to port the 1.2.0 versions to Windows. Actually almost all the newer features in 1.2.0 came from ADOM-Sage. Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 04:07
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IronicDongz posted:
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Dec 23, 2015 04:07
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Vapors of Insanity. I walked into a cave and there was a dark blue eye monster, when I tried to examine it the game was like "it's made of dark blue eye flesh" and I was like yeah? and then it just explained to me what flesh is
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Dec 23, 2015 04:36
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was just checking out details for the new tome expansion and it sounds cool but also added crafting and healing potions? not having that stuff was a selling point wasnt it? hopefully things arent balanced with the expectation of you using them. also its going to be a roguelite christmas 
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Dec 23, 2015 06:06
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I just got Towerclimb and spent a couple of hours dying violently. So far my favourite deaths were probably falling on spikes after being accosted by an rear end in a top hat wizard in a ghost shortcut, climbing 63 feet and promptly faceplanting on the tower floor, standing around on the tower floor wondering "what the hell does all this ground shaking hatchery stuff mea- oh", and eating too many berries at once. Absolute bastard game, but fun and very addicting. I need to stop going in shortcut doors because I always get the flight of death one and get blendered by the fans 
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Dec 23, 2015 06:34
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Jordan7hm posted:Oh yeah I ignored your list because I haven't logged it yet. If you like Dota/mobas, and roguelikes, and FTL, and shoot-em-ups...  So glad I snagged this for $3, only bummed that I have to drop $10 on it now to give as a gift. E: I stand corrected, $5 till 1/4/2016, awesome! Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 06:36
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Angry Diplomat posted:I just got Towerclimb and spent a couple of hours dying violently. So far my favourite deaths were probably falling on spikes after being accosted by an rear end in a top hat wizard in a ghost shortcut, climbing 63 feet and promptly faceplanting on the tower floor, standing around on the tower floor wondering "what the hell does all this ground shaking hatchery stuff mea- oh", and eating too many berries at once. Oh man, you're going to have fun when you find the carnival shortcut. For such a simple premise of a game Towerfall packs in a lot of detail.
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Dec 23, 2015 06:39
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/378790/quote:Edit: I didn't know this was originally a hentai game. I mean, I guess looking back at what I've experienced in the game, it makes sense. However, it doesn't change how I feel about the game itself. I don't really care about the hentai stuff being cut because not only do I not care about hentai, I believe it still stands on its own as a nice little Mystery Dungeon game.
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Dec 23, 2015 07:53
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Roguelike votes: #83-88 The following games received only a single vote for tenth place.
I'm going to list the various sub-genres of roguelikes as I go through the games, and total them after every post. If you think I've listed a game wrong, tell me! I'll explain the sub-genres I'm using as we see them come up. In this group we've seen:
I'll also be comparing free vs commercial. So far every single game is commercial though Transcendence is also available for free (like ToME's model where you're paying for DLC).
FYI I added the vote for XCom:EW back in. Watched some gameplay, looked at some other games on the list, and decided it qualified. I think it's a real stretch, but honestly so are a lot of other games that are going to come up. Game developers have riffed so hard on the genre conventions in the last 2-3 years that the lines are really blurry now. Jordan7hm fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 16:32
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Roguelikes are the root of all genres  (not really, but frankly I love seeing rogue elements in other games, done well they improve just about anything)
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Dec 23, 2015 18:09
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Towerclimb is basically the myth of Sisyphus, but with way more death.Sage Grimm posted:Oh man, you're going to have fun when you find the carnival shortcut. For such a simple premise of a game Towerfall packs in a lot of detail. Haha, yes, that shortcut is "fun" 
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Dec 23, 2015 18:27
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Angry Diplomat posted:Haha, yes, that shortcut is "fun" Zardo's game is by far the easiest shortcut (  ) and guarantees 3 chest drops which can be pretty great. Fatal Flight is probably the hardest unless you get lucky with the level gen, and only rarely has any resources you can actually reach .Soul Crossing can be pretty tough too, especially if Zardo himself shows up, which is quite likely in that area. I usually skip the shortcuts these days, the normal path has a better resources/danger ratio in my opinion and I need those berries!I uploaded my first towerclimb video last night - I have no mic yet so it's just gameplay, no commentary. It's my latest attempt at a 7 legend fragment run, I ended within sight of the exit to the Arcade with 6/7 fragments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm-EJ-uLlq8 The highlight of the run is probably the brutal boiler at 42 minutes in (beware spoilers!) My spiral of death and disaster really starts near the very beginning of the Arcade at 1:05. I just cannot keep my winchshot alive for more than a minute in that place :|
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Dec 23, 2015 18:51
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Zardo's game teaches you some of the more edge case movement mechanics so you become a better climber. And also how to convince beetles to leave you alone. Zardo himself is the best lovely wizard.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:04
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So I picked up dungeonmans finally, but find a couple things..a bit off about it. I'll definitely put more time into it, but it feels like it suffers from some stuff. It has a tome4-like curve between easy/hard bits, often in a single dungeon. I'm not sure if the idea is to dip out of the dungeon and go somewhere else, but the travel/explore interface is lacking for stuff like that. I've done a variety of approaches, and they've felt fairly equal in the flow of difficulty bits. Essentially crushing a few floors, then running into stuff that drops you fast. The increased cost on old skills at level is a really weird design and is just throwing me for a loop. It might be out of the small number of abilities and the scaling nature of the academy, but still. On my stamina using guys I really never needed to worry about the cost for using the same thing multiple times, because the increase often just made it unable to use. I'd be able to use each ability roughly once before being dry. There are some other things that I can't quite put into words. It really feels like a mix of crawl/tome4 but that each of those encountered an issue and just went a different way of resolving it. I guess both of those also have been around longer with more work gone into tuning and stuff.
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Dec 23, 2015 20:15
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Take the Tireless perk, it reduces the stamina cooldown from 5 rounds (which always felt insanely punitive to me) to 2. The increasing cost of abilities as you level just keeps abilities meaningfully expensive (and pulls back the curtain on the hilarity of vertical rpg design, but let's not have that conversation), but they don't scale as fast as your stats do, so as you beef up, you can use your stuff more, as you'd expect. As for difficulty, pay attention to the difficulty indicator at the top of the screen. Deeper/farther east/farther south=harder. 'Dangerous' stuff early in the game, well, is. You can always back out and go explore elsewhere. Roguelike, caution. Dungeonmans, careful, cautious, on guard, etc.
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Dec 23, 2015 20:19
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Yea I had tireless and the +hp perk on that guy. It literally didn't matter though, because I could use each ability once and be almost out of stamina. If I had taken some more abilities instead of hunting the tree for passives I would have been able to eat all my stamina using just my attacks once. With the stamina cost reduction hat. Yea I noticed the difficulty indicator up top, just the travel mechanics are pretty lovely for that design. In crawl you have auto-travel to places which lets you jump between branches fairly easy, but also the curve doesn't hit as hard. Tome4 you in general are able to complete a dungeon you go into without needing to bounce to another one, and if you do you get a "teleport out" stick.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:06
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There are fairly common teleport out scrolls. As for travel the floors are way way way smaller than crawl or tome, and up/down auto runs you to stairs.
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Dec 23, 2015 21:10
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Mr. Wednesday posted:Zardo's game is by far the easiest shortcut ( It certainly seems to be, I just haven't cleared it yet; I always flub a jump at a critical moment and faceplant into spikes or lava. Fatal Flight can eat a loving dick though, it seems like sometimes you're just hosed because four overlapping fans spawn and you can't see far enough to avoid them ahead of time. Highest I've gotten is somewhere around a dozen floors. I made it through the Heart on my first try, despite all the magma flying around, and managed to kill the incredible hell out of myself in the Ruins by somehow getting hit by a falling icicle while already falling at terminal velocity and then landing on some spikes 
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Dec 23, 2015 21:53
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I'm visiting my family for a fairly extended trip currently, so I've been getting in a good amount of gaming on my iPhone. I'd never really given any of the iOS roguelikes a shot before. Sproggiwood is great so far. I just unlocked the vampire, though I've beaten all the levels so far with each class and have been working my way through savage difficulty, too. I love how puzzley it is. I wish more games presented you with challenges that had to be dealt with so differently. The death effects on the different slimes are genius. That said, I consider it far more of a puzzle game than a roguelike given the lack of penalty for dying on a stage and ability to pre-choose your loadout. I was itching for some more classic roguelike action, so I picked up Pixel Dungeon, too. It's... ok. I have a character in progress just short of the second boss right now. It suffers hard from the classic roguelike super boring early game. I'm also not a fan of tight hunger clocks and equipment degradation. That said, it's otherwise competent, if not a bit generic. I've heard that some of the mods add a lot more depth and are much more enjoyable, but they aren't currently available on iOS. It sounds like an iOS port of Sprouted is underway, though. I'll probably look into 868-Hack, Wayward Souls and Cavern soon.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:27
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Do you guys play Towerclimb with a keyboard or a controller?
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Dec 23, 2015 22:42
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I've been using a keyboard. It seems pretty intuitive now that I've got the hang of the controls. I still need to try using a controller.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:45
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Turtlicious posted:Do you guys play Towerclimb with a keyboard or a controller? I personally use a keyboard, but I believe the devs recommend a controller. If you have the choice I'd probably start learning with a controller, as it gives you more finesse in your item throwing. I don't switch to it now just because I'm so used to keyboard and I don't want to have to 'relearn' the game even a little bit.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:51
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Turtlicious posted:Do you guys play Towerclimb with a keyboard or a controller? I use a dual shock 4, pretty happy with it.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:50
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