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Foma posted:I have a hard time believing this group has some secret in to card spoilers and has been getting leaks ahead of time in a consistent manner. It sounds more like they are just like the people in this thread coming across links that might be or might not be legit spoilers and posting them or just reading them. "Private Group" sounds nefarious, but its guaranteed to just be a Facebook group. What dastardly criminals, discussing products on social media. I'm glad WOTC is taking a bold stance on this.
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Dec 23, 2015 11:33
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Trick love da kids.
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Dec 23, 2015 11:39
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always be closing posted:Trick love da kids. Trick's FOR kids, even.
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Dec 23, 2015 11:41
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Count Bleck posted:Trick's FOR kids, even. Remember when Trick announced that at GP Vegas he would only be giving fist bumps cause magic players are too germy? Trigger warning:dro in the wind. https://youtu.be/uFETyg-nd7M
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Dec 23, 2015 11:57
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Yeah I was specifically wondering about the Charlotte and Atlanta opens in January. SCG has it covered. All the judges also filled out another form to apply to these events, and the judge manager (Riki Hayashi) has what he needs to get info. He also has a avenue for judges who applied to get with him if they want to know more about the event. I had a friend who was already declined for Charlotte so I'm assuming they are good on staffing it. Chill la Chill posted:Yeah this is what my friend texted me: (1/2) You understand what judge apps is right? It's the only way a non-judge had of contacting a judge. At all. Also, both of those L3's were on-staff for (2/2) the PT in atlanta in february and the scg open in january. Ben macdole was supposed to HJ that open in fact. Edit: Oh maybe sides lead which is kinda HJudgey. Foma posted:I have a hard time believing this group has some secret in to card spoilers and has been getting leaks ahead of time in a consistent manner. It sounds more like they are just like the people in this thread coming across links that might be or might not be legit spoilers and posting them or just reading them. So everyone can keep all  Or, ya know, wait a bit because appeals work better when you aren't on the Internet posting all about what happened. If those fail, or if they happen and it's clear, you'll hear more about things. minusX fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 15:03
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Were these guys actually stealing cards? Or were they being fed through an internal source? The PR statement isn't 100% clear on that.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:08
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There was a private Facebook group where cards were leaked. The fact that these players were judges probably had nothing to do with their suspensions but good luck parsing that from the shitstorm on reddit.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:12
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Helene is not really that great at her job, she does the bare minimum, and is lauded for it.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:12
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always be closing posted:Helene is not really that great at her job, she does the bare minimum, and is lauded for it. To be fair if I worked at WotC I would to. If you pay people less because they really want to work at your company it's just exploitation. Emerson Cod posted:There was a private Facebook group where cards were leaked. The fact that these players were judges probably had nothing to do with their suspensions but good luck parsing that from the shitstorm on reddit. If they actually were hacking/physically stealing from WotC then the bans make sense. If they were being fed information, then it makes no more sense to ban them than someone who saw the leaks and re-tweeted them. It's WotC's job to plug leaks, not people that receive the information. A private Facebook group is just as public as twitter because no one involved in either of those is under contract or an NDA with WotC. I'm still going to err on the side of this being WotC being dumb until they clarify exactly what happened.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:20
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always be closing posted:Helene is not really that great at her job, she does the bare minimum, and is lauded for it. Most of the rest of WotC's efforts are at or below the bare minimum - having someone high up on the tournament organization totem pole who can act and speak like a human being who is competent at their job is more than I've come to expect. Helene is great compared to everyone around her.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:21
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Hellsau posted:Most of the rest of WotC's efforts are at or below the bare minimum - having someone high up on the tournament organization totem pole who can act and speak like a human being who is competent at their job is more than I've come to expect. Helene is great compared to everyone around her. Yeah basically this. She's the only public facing Wizards employee who appears to have functioning ears and knows how to use them.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:25
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It's almost like employing anti-social nerds to run your game company results in poorly thought-out responses when you need to engage with your customer base outside of press releases.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:26
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Appeals are looking to not be processed until after the holiday break, so it's looking like early to mid January will have some comments posted from the other side.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:31
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ThePeavstenator posted:It's almost like employing anti-social nerds to run your game company results in poorly thought-out responses when you need to engage with your customer base outside of press releases. But at the same time, these nerds are the same group as the customer base that cares. Nobody playing kitchen magic is gonna care about this poo poo.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:32
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ThePeavstenator posted:It's almost like employing anti-social nerds to run your game company results in poorly thought-out responses when you need to engage with your customer base outside of press releases. How dare you doubt Trick.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:38
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please do not doubt my good friend, Trick "Trick" Jarrett
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Dec 23, 2015 16:44
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Shouldn't a magic judge understand the difference between a private and public zone?one of the L3s that moderates the subreddit posted:So when do the moderators of /r/magictcg and every other large Magic-discussion site get suspended? Because that stuff gets posted here too, every cycle, and we don't run to WotC with every possible leak that shows up. In fact we don't run to them with leaks, period.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:50
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Seeing posts about this on Facebook too. One on the Judge group for my region (incl. some talk about striking), another in the general MTG group for my country. Latter one has someone offering "If there were a god, [the RC] would be in this group". Not sure how to feel about this, but it's a whole big mess.
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Dec 23, 2015 16:54
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Zoness posted:Shouldn't a magic judge understand the difference between a private and public zone? Yeah, really a lot of the same logic applies. If they can't be as impartial towards this as they are with any other suspension or call they may or may not agree with the tone of this conversation would be a lot different. It really doesn't help that the one channel that most judges had with the upper levels of the program and WotC itself was pulled down in a rash show of solidarity. As a player I'm not happy with the suspensions but as a judge the fact that prominent judges were suspended really isn't a factor for me.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:06
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Zoness posted:Shouldn't a magic judge understand the difference between a private and public zone? it was a facebook group not some clandestine operation, pretty much every mtg player i know is in some closed facebook group for trades, or testing, or lots of random poo poo does that count? should people who discussed leaks there be banned? Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 17:16
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I think WotC realizes that they can't punish these guys through litigation because if they could they would have started that process by now. Instead they banned people that were getting leaks from someone on WotC's end. If they were actually stealing I think WotC would have said that they were stealing, not "receiving stolen confidential information". The distinction between "public and private zones" is made up because anything outside of WotC and their affiliates is a public space. It also doesn't explain how that guy on twitter got banned for 3 years. Edit: It occurred to me that WotC could actually have a case against the private group. They just lack the foresight to get everything lined up and then do the litigation/bannings at the same time as publishing a press release. Instead they do seemingly arbitrary poo poo and then explain themselves later.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:23
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Aren't the random members of the group only banned like three months
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Dec 23, 2015 17:30
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ThePeavstenator posted:The distinction between "public and private zones" is made up because anything outside of WotC and their affiliates is a public space. It also doesn't explain how that guy on twitter got banned for 3 years. Actually they used social media like this to share and discuss leaked cards, and regular players use social media like this to share and discuss leaked cards so I think you'll recognize there is a massive and critically important difference there and this isn't just a corporate temper tantrum
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Dec 23, 2015 17:30
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wotc should pay  to see the leaks here
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Dec 23, 2015 17:33
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ThePeavstenator posted:The distinction between "public and private zones" is made up because anything outside of WotC and their affiliates is a public space. It also doesn't explain how that guy on twitter got banned for 3 years. I think the distinction is pretty simply if you google the cardname can you find it. I think I've done that for every card I've seen posted in here (or checked the URL) just to see what people are saying about it, but if there's no google result that's a pretty good sign it's private? Ciprian Maricon posted:it was a facebook group not some clandestine operation, pretty much every mtg player i know is in some closed facebook group for trades, or testing, or lots of random poo poo does that count? should people who discussed leaks there be banned? I mean, it seems to me the set of conditions to have a problem here is pretty rare: 1. Someone in your group has to have access to a private source of leaks 2. That person is only posting to the group 3. This happens over multiple spoiler seasons with the same original source into the group. And it's not necessarily implied that mere involvement in the group was a sufficient condition to be banned.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:36
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All of this could be avoided if WotC had just rolled with it and started spoiler season early and then fired/cut-ties/initiated litigation with the leaking employees/businesses.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:41
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I actually felt really bad for the VSL guys last night. They got the opportunity to show us 3 really cool, vintage playable, lands but the spoilers ruined it. People would have gone nuts for those things, but everyone already knew about them so there was just no reaction at all.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:53
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Zoness posted:I mean, it seems to me the set of conditions to have a problem here is pretty rare: Who cares. they were a bunch of dudes doing what loads of players do, I'm sure you've posted regarding spoiled cards, I know I have. I don't see why we need to define the conditions that suddenly turned this into something really actually terri-bad and a crime. It was fundamentally a bunch of nerds talking about future wizard poker, its so utterly harmless, and this company decides to make an issue out of it for absolutely no good reason. Its stupid.
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Dec 23, 2015 17:57
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Zoness posted:I think the distinction is pretty simply if you google the cardname can you find it. I think I've done that for every card I've seen posted in here (or checked the URL) just to see what people are saying about it, but if there's no google result that's a pretty good sign it's private? Once someone on the inside leaks info, it's public. It doesn't matter how public or known it is and it's not the job of anyone outside of WotC to not talk about it. If WotC doesn't like leaks then they need clamp down on their employees and businesses they work with. I think Wizards knows that they can't fire or litigate against these guys because they aren't responsible for preventing leaks, so the next best thing is to ban them and tell the rest of us that the bad men talking about cardboard earlier then WotC wanted are the real bad guys. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 18:02
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Who cares. they were a bunch of dudes doing what loads of players do, I'm sure you've posted regarding spoiled cards, I know I have. I don't see why we need to define the conditions that suddenly turned this into something really actually terri-bad and a crime. I'm literally saying that they are not doing what loads of people are doing, and the reductive argument doesn't really help comprehension of the process. But yeah I mean, why even play magic. Chill la Chill where's the Force of Will / Eurogames thread  .
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Dec 23, 2015 18:03
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Zoness posted:I'm literally saying that they are not doing what loads of people are doing, and the reductive argument doesn't really help comprehension of the process. Force of Will is this-a-way. 'Dunno about eurogames though.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:06
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Serperoth posted:Seeing posts about this on Facebook too. Doesn't even need to be a total strike. No reason l1's can't keep supporting their local stores and just have l2's & 3's not sign up for a couple GP's. The big get would be for judges to fail to show at the PT. WOTC would put employees in the role, but it'd be the whole NFL ref strike all over again. Quality would just be awful.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:25
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Zoness posted:But yeah I mean, why even play magic. Chill la Chill where's the Force of Will / Eurogames thread
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Dec 23, 2015 18:31
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Cernunnos posted:Force of Will is this-a-way. Took one look at the card art and couldn't close the thread fast enough :\
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Dec 23, 2015 18:33
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Zoness posted:I'm literally saying that they are not doing what loads of people are doing, and the reductive argument doesn't really help comprehension of the process. They are discussing leaked cards on social media. That they happen to be closer to the source of the leak than you or I doesn't somehow make it suddenly extra bad and evil, its not like discussing leaks is some sort of crime until X degrees of separation and suddenly its morally defensible. It not their responsibility or yours to go "hmmm oh boy, let me consider how far removed from the original leak these card images are so I can know whether I can ethically discuss their impact on my children's card game"
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Dec 23, 2015 18:35
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WotC should hold all events on MTGO for the duration of the suspension, to make the judges completely sidelined
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Dec 23, 2015 18:37
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GeneX posted:WotC should hold all events on MTGO for the duration of the suspension, to make the judges completely sidelined Pro Tour Vintage Cube
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Dec 23, 2015 18:39
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GeneX posted:WotC should hold all events on MTGO for the duration of the suspension, to make the judges completely sidelined  instead of judge calls it gives you mini DQs and hopes you don't come back in time. 
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Dec 23, 2015 18:42
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GeneX posted:WotC should hold all events on MTGO for the duration of the suspension, to make the judges completely sidelined wizards, hire this man at 60% of the market rate
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Dec 23, 2015 18:44
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Ciprian Maricon posted:They are discussing leaked cards on social media. That they happen to be closer to the source of the leak than you or I doesn't somehow make it suddenly extra bad and evil, its not like discussing leaks is some sort of crime until X degrees of separation and suddenly its morally defensible. It not their responsibility or yours to go "hmmm oh boy, let me consider how far removed from the original leak these card images are so I can know whether I can ethically discuss their impact on my children's card game" Do you not see how your flawed reductive premise leads to an unreasonable conclusion? I believe another term for that is strawmanning.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:45
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