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I thought Adam Driver gave a great performance in the mask, but the dude's skull is just working against him. He is a very silly looking person.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:20
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You guys know there's two more movies with kylo ren in them right
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Dec 23, 2015 22:21
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turtlecrunch posted:Is there any evidence that he had a genuine vision and that he isn't just out of his mind and having "visions" created by said mind instead of by the Force? That is certainly very possible. He's so desperate to be like Vader that he could just be constructing his "interactions" with Vader out of longing rather than actual "divine" inspiration.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:23
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turtlecrunch posted:Is there any evidence that he had a genuine vision and that he isn't just out of his mind and having "visions" created by said mind instead of by the Force? There are no coincidences in star wars
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Dec 23, 2015 22:24
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Smoking Crow posted:There are no coincidences in star wars What's this supposed to mean? What are you referring to? Because there are ways for Kylo Ren to get all hyped up about Vader that do not require a Force-provided vision.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:26
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Terrible Horse posted:I thought Adam Driver gave a great performance in the mask, but the dude's skull is just working against him. He is a very silly looking person. I actually like that; his maskless appearance betrays his determination to be an evil man. He doesn't look like Baked Potato Vader or Monster Mash Palp because he simply isn't them. When he has no mask you can totally believe that he's Han's son, more intellectual rogue than emotional husk. This is also why I like that the next big life event for him after killing his father is getting horrifically mangled
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Dec 23, 2015 22:26
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Neurolimal posted:I actually like that; his maskless appearance betrays his determination to be an evil man. He doesn't look like Baked Potato Vader or Monster Mash Palp because he simply isn't them. When he has no mask you can totally believe that he's Han's son, more intellectual rogue than emotional husk. I thought about that, but if that was the intent, wouldn't it make sense to go with someone who looks innocent/cherubic/more "son-like"? Driver looks like a living Mike Judge cartoon or something. But really this was only when he first unmasked himself, and only for a second. Driver's performance was good enough to recover. And the movie overall was just really fun - I saw it today, a week after release to a half-full theater at noon, and people were clearly enjoying the hell out of it.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:32
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turtlecrunch posted:Is there any evidence that he had a genuine vision and that he isn't just out of his mind and having "visions" created by said mind instead of by the Force? He asked to be shown something again. I've forgotten the last line. Guess I'll have to watch it yet again. What a pain.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:32
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turtlecrunch posted:What's this supposed to mean? What are you referring to? Because there are ways for Kylo Ren to get all hyped up about Vader that do not require a Force-provided vision. Star Wars isn't a secular story. It's an intensely religious story. Everything in Star Wars is the will of the Force
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Dec 23, 2015 22:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I haven't encountered that before, unless you just mean the infamous Nazi salute. All this is to say that the imagery and political situation of the film does not necessarily paint the First Order as leftist at all. Further, Kylo Ren's personal struggle contains a number of allusions to the Dark Enlightenment, with its "rediscovery" of forbidden esoteric knowledge and explicit rejection of the light.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:35
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MisterBibs posted:The only time Vader is pathetic is at the end of his duel with Luke in Jedi, though? There is, in fact, an entire thread throughout the first three episodes in this film series about Anakin being pitiable and pathetic.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:38
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Bongo Bill posted:He asked to be shown something again. I've forgotten the last line. Guess I'll have to watch it yet again. What a pain. The power of the dark side is what he asked to be shown again.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:39
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I take that back, the current star wars is a spiritual story Star wars: the spiritual, but not religious chick of movies
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Dec 23, 2015 22:40
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Neurolimal posted:If nothing else, the fact that TFA has already inspired so much debate on its message, place and relation to the PT and OT, and interest in EU explanations of new creations suggests that, at the very least, it's more than just "a forgettable 2010's reboot". It's more that people are struggling to come up with interesting things in the film, and have already nearly exhausted the supply. Dexter Jettster is hugely controversial. Darth Maul has fascinated people for years. Nobody gives a poo poo about, uh, the guy on the horse. Or blue rat guy? Even Ackbar is stripped of his dignity.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:42
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jivjov posted:Kylo has several threatening moments and he's only been in one movie, compared to Anakin's 6. Kylo has  several threatening moments .Vader has legitimate threatening moments. You can keep alleging that Kylo has threatening moments, but all you're doing is citing the times he fails to be a legitimate threat. If the second movie pulls off him getting decent at being a bad guy, I'll be happy, but my primary response will be "where was this a movie ago?" MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 22:45
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Waffles Inc. posted:There is, in fact, an entire thread throughout the first three episodes in this film series about Anakin being pitiable and pathetic. And if you reject the PT, there's also the scene where Vader is getting his lifr support installed, composed in a way where Vader is shown as intensely vulnerable and closed off from Tarkin, the closest thing he has left to a friend. There's also the unrestrained outright murder of a moff for daring to crack wise about his power (both showing that Vader is not treated as a respected ally by the Empire, and a crack in his normally managed temper), and his failure to kill Luke because of his emotional investment. Assuming you are capable of recognizing nuance and emotion, there are plent of scenes where Vader comes across as a broken individual before ROTJ.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:45
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Dexter Jettster is hugely controversial. Darth Maul has fascinated people for years. Having bad things in a movie does not make the movie interesting stop this.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:47
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's more that people are struggling to come up with interesting things in the film, and have already nearly exhausted the supply. Stripped of his followers, the once proud SMG resorts to raw flame to assert control over his subjects, A Good Post
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Dec 23, 2015 22:47
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MisterBibs posted:Kylo has You aren't even bothering to justify your argument by illustrating your points anymore. Why should we take your opinion seriously if your entire viewpoint is "no he's not yes he is la la la i'm not listening"?
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Dec 23, 2015 22:49
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Why should we take your opinion seriously if your entire viewpoint is "no he's not yes he is la la la i'm not listening"? You are aware that there's a side in this discussion trying to paint Kylo as threatening? "Actually Kylo Is Threatening" is on par with "Actually It's About Ethics In X", as far as supportable theses are concerned. E: vvv I, for one, promise to be afraid when a dude with a laser sword has a hissy fit on a computer terminal in front of me. Fer shure. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 22:52
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MisterBibs posted:You are aware that there's a side in this discussion trying to paint Kylo as threatening? "Actually Kylo Is Threatening" is on par with "Actually It's About Ethics In X", as far as supportable theses are concerned. Threatening in a way that you don't believe to be threatening because you've never been exposed to fiction or the real world.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:54
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MisterBibs posted:You are aware that there's a side in this discussion trying to paint Kylo as threatening? "Actually Kylo Is Threatening" is on par with "Actually It's About Ethics In X", as far as supportable theses are concerned.  did you try to bring gamergate into this just to make your point sound like it the victim?
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Dec 23, 2015 22:54
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I thought this movie was pretty good. Some elements were a little too overly referential to the original trilogy, but overall I think it hit the right notes. I think it also brought to light how it's not very hard to make a good Star Wars movie, and how the prequels failed in every way imaginable. A couple space battles, some galactic intrigue, some romance, a little space magic. Easy stuff. Anyway not gonna read any posts made prior to this one or after it, I have a premonition of what darkness awaits. You could say, I sense it.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:55
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MisterBibs posted:You are aware that there's a side in this discussion trying to paint Kylo as threatening? "Actually Kylo Is Threatening" is on par with "Actually It's About Ethics In X", as far as supportable theses. It's not like that at all, lol. Kylo is shown to be an unstable person with clear rage issues who orders a village to be executed. Wow what a pansy, how could anyone take this guy seriously. Best part of the movie by the way is learning that Harrison Ford still has blood in his veins. This was like the anti-Firewall
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Dec 23, 2015 22:55
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MisterBibs is the Kylo Ren of this thread
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Dec 23, 2015 22:55
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team overhead smash posted:He's the main antagonist of this movie and will almost certainly be the main antagonist or one of the main antagonists of the next one. A primary purpose of the antagonist is to represent a threat to the actions, ideals and plans of the protagonists that they have to somehow overcome, helping to create a sense of tension and danger. Ok, after reading all of your responses, it's pretty clear that you don't really understand Kylo Ren as a character and refuse to see that anything he does as even remotely intimidating in any way for some reason. Previously you said: team overhead smash posted:I mean you're really scrapping the bottom of the battle here. You're having to point to things that don't actually take place in the movie or its timeframe with the killing of Luke's students and even then you mischaracterise it (he didn't do it singlehandedly, we see in the flashback him with a group of other dudes backing him up at the Jedi Lightsaber Massacre). Not only that but you again fall back on the response of "but look how aggressive and angry he is" and fail to answer my question of "Okay, but what does he actually accomplish with his anger in the movie besides slashing some poor innocent computer monitors and an old unarmed man who wasn't posing a threat?" Scraping at the bottom? Really? Ben was the one who led the revolt. Don't be pedantic. He's solely responsible for the downfall of Luke's attempt to bring the Jedi Order back; he's the one to turned to the dark side, and then rallied others to his cause. And I did answer your question regarding what he accomplishes with his anger and rage while on a warpath to find Luke. As have others in the past couple pages—please read them to gain a better understanding if you haven't already. That said, some examples pointed out were giving the order to slaughter an entire village after killing who we can assume with the village leader (who also appeared to have some kind of history with Ben), realizing that BB-8 was important in the first place, taking Poe prisoner and torturing that information out of him, subduing Rey and capturing her with relative ease which led him to find out that she's Force sensitive and come on, Ben killing his own father makes him a credible threat. You're heavily underplaying the significance to of Han's death at the hands of his own son and how it characterizes Kylo Ren as a goddamn monster. Let me ask this question again: would you say a mentally unstable individual armed with an assault rifle and hand grenades, who just so happens to have no problem with killing people (even his own kin), taking hostages and is on a war path to find another family member to kill them, is in any way an unthreatening individual? [edit] I think anyone who feels like Kylo Ren wasn't effective or intimidating as a villain is because he's played by Adam Driver. Likely a desired effect. He's a guy who looks non-threatening without the mask and throws tantrums, but he'll kill you and your family if you make fun of him. Wow that guy is a pussy, am I right? teagone fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Dec 23, 2015 |
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Dec 23, 2015 22:56
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I took my five year old son to the movie. Before the movie his favourite character was Kylo Ren. Afterwards I asked him who his favourite character is and he said "still Kylo Ren". I asked him if he did any bad things. He said: 'yes he killed his father Han Solo'. I asked him that he knows Han Solo is my favourite character right? He said 'Yes! I know that'. Then I realised this is a weird movie as a father to take your son to. Especially when Kylo is their favourite character and they have no issue with him killing his father.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:58
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Neurolimal posted:Same cant be said for Total Recall and Robocop The same could definitely be said for Robocop 2014. Star Wars fans are uniquely hung up.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:58
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Cyron posted:
Not really, it's just the easiest analogy I could think of when it comes to "Why are you laughing at this, this is Serious and Threatening and Scary!" Not my fault if I'm not buying that Kylo is threatening. I could've referenced SCP articles for their penchant of trying to convince readers that they are ~totally spooky~, just as some here want me to believe Kylo Ren is ~totally threatening~. Nope, not possible given the movie we got. The only blemish on what otherwise a great movie.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:59
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Wank posted:I took my five year old son to the movie. Before the movie his favourite character was Kylo Ren. Afterwards I asked him who his favourite character is and he said "still Kylo Ren". I asked him if he did any bad things. He said: 'yes he killed his father Han Solo'. I asked him that he knows Han Solo is my favourite character right? He said 'Yes! I know that'. Then I realised this is a weird movie as a father to take your son to. Especially when Kylo is their favourite character and they have no issue with him killing his father. I would not send that boy to train with your brother in law is all I'm saying.
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Dec 23, 2015 22:59
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Zodack posted:MisterBibs is the Kylo Ren of this thread  Now Palpatine in ROTJ scared the hell out of me as a kid. I think that's part of why I've always preferred him to Vader as a villain, much as I do like Vader in his own right.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:01
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Lord Hydronium posted:I don't find MisterBibs that threatening. Vader on Cloud City and in Luke's cave vision scared the poo poo out of me as a kid too.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:04
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Terrible Horse posted:Best part of the movie by the way is learning that Harrison Ford still has blood in his veins. This was like the anti-Firewall I know, right? The difference between TFA Ford and "part-time." Crystal Skull Ford is like day and night.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:08
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Terrible Horse posted:Vader on Cloud City and in Luke's cave vision scared the poo poo out of me as a kid too. Yeah these two moments are legit scary.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:08
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MisterBibs posted:Not really, it's just the easiest analogy I could think of when it comes to "Why are you laughing at this, this is Serious and Threatening and Scary!" Not my fault if I'm not buying that Kylo is threatening. Y'know, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but belittling those who actually watched and engaged with the film (y'know, with your shittyass Gamergate comparison) is really loving dumb. Maybe you personally are not threatened by Kylo Ren. That's fine. But the characters in the film clearly are; and there's plenty of in-movie nuance and reason why.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:11
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elestupendojudio posted:Honestly and truly, I'm not just loving around, but in that scene I thought it was sweat. Still looks like sweat to me. We should call George and ask what the best interpretation is. It's fair to see it both ways. It only moves as he moves his head. It's glistening in the light, not falling from his eye. I think it's probably just sweat. On the other hand this is just rain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjIDrG-MQsc&t=60s
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Dec 23, 2015 23:13
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The same could definitely be said for Robocop 2014. Star Wars fans are uniquely hung up. I wouldn't call myself a star wars fan; I like the originals, I like the worldbuilding of the prequels (just not the prequels themselves), and loved TFA, but I don't actively seek SW stuff. I just felt that Robocop 14 only had two memorable things; the deconstruction scene where Murph is shown just how little of his humanity is left, and the notion of an AI/manipulated mind that can believe it is free and acts of its own accord, but "naturally" ends up carrying out its orders. Outsids of that the film just doesn't have much longevity and isn't going to survive the test of time like the original has.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:13
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jivjov posted:Maybe you personally are not threatened by Kylo Ren. That's fine. They're entitled to their opinion, but it's our job as goons to point out just how wrong they are.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:16
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I flew an hour to see this movie in a VIP theatre and I was worried it wouldn't by worth it, but it was totally worth it, and if you don't like this movie, on the balance, you're basically a horrible person who hates fun. There are a few pacing issues I didn't care for, but this was every bit as good a movie as ANH. Makes me wonder how good the prequels could've been with competent writing and direction.
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Dec 23, 2015 23:17
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teagone posted:They're entitled to their opinion, but it's our job as goons to point out just how wrong they are. We've been trying that tactic for a couple pages now; and its not working. "Here's some literal textual evidence of this character being threatening" "NOPE, NO THREAT THERE!"
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Dec 23, 2015 23:18
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