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Person Dyslexic posted:But if you change malmutate to be temporarily negative or glow, it's even easier to mitigate it and then you're even kore likely to end up with a permanent stack of good mutations. If the only danger of malmutate is, "This might temporarily reduce your good mutation count from 15 to 6", then how is it even a threat? You gain exp so fast late game that even the crazy stars are barely an annoyance to most characters. If you hate it so much don't eat purple and always have a stack of cure mut for end game? You have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody is getting huge stacks of good mutations from roulette unless they get insanely lucky. What usually happens is you get some incredibly minor mutations, both good and bad. The way I do it is if I get one really good mutation, I stop eating the purple because its not worth it at that point. The odds of getting one of the extremely bad mutations is way too high for you to eat tons of purple. The only way you can reliably end up with tons of amazing mutations is if you worship Xom because he gifts nothing but good ones usually, but even then they rarely last forever. quote:Guess I just know nothing about the game though and have only lucked my way to never having it gently caress me over end game. I am sad when I get teleportitis and have to sac good muts to remove it, but it doesn't make me froth at the mouth in anger. Guess it is just different styles though. You specifically mention having to sack all your mutations because you got teleportitis. That's exactly what people dislike about this change; the fact that you have no reliable protection against mutations anymore means you're going to have to do that in basically every game. If it somehow improved the game it wouldn't be an issue but its not an improvement. Its just going from one bad mutation system to another, but this one is less fun because you can't actually keep your good results from it once you start on the extended game. And the extended part of Crawl is what really needs to be improved! Person Dyslexic posted:So don't do Zot until you've completed the rest of the game and come prepared with cure mutation? I wasn't aware there was a mutation that inflicted instant death before cure could be quaffed, but like you said I must not know anything about the game. Not doing Zot means missing out on a huge chunk of exp that helps a lot of weaker characters to make it through the extended branches. Regardless, all of the extended branches aside from Tomb have mutators so no matter where you choose to go you're gonna lose your mutations. Hell has red glow from effects and the potnetial cacodemon Dis ending. Mnolegs realm in Pan is full of so many mutators that even with the rMut amulet you probably would pick up something from it. I don't even want to imagine what it would do to most characters now. quote:And I use spears near exclusively with spectral weapon so yeah, it's easy to dodge it that way. So you're taking your incredibly specific playstyle and using it to make judgements about a change that effects every character. That's absurd. Crawl is supposed to support tons of different playstyles, so having a mechanic that can only be reliably dealt with by a minority of them is silly.
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Dec 25, 2015 04:19
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cheetah7071 posted:Drag a deep troll earth mage or Jorgrun all the way down there. Jorgun is already dead... Depths cleared... but that sounds awful anyways... Does LRD even destroy transluent walls?
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Dec 25, 2015 04:20
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mitztronic posted:So I've sacrificed evocations to Ru. How am I supposed to get through the translucent rock walls of Slime? They removed Ctele, blink doesnt work. I have -Wiz from Ru, too. Add a staff of earth as well, LRD can work - I don't remember how many # you need to make it sensible (they're only normal rock at that point, at least). There's also passwall. In addition to the earth mages ^, there's also eye of devastation - can you get those with Shadow Creatures or ?summoning and attack them? e: learndb says 5 #s for rock.
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Dec 25, 2015 04:22
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I also sacrificed love. Thanks for the suggestions though, I'll go grab an earth staff and work on that. No pass wall has dropped yet so maybe I'll just defer to picking up the rune for later.quote:e: learndb says 5 #s for rock. e: none of the 8 staffs are Earth, of course, but at least I know I dont need shatter or OOD. mitztronic fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 04:31
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mitztronic posted:I also sacrificed love. This leads to my favorite message in the game. "You are now hated by all."
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Dec 25, 2015 04:45
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Never mind about what I said, Torment is now included with Harm multipliers with a patch shortly after I finished my game (so up to 62.5% of current HP instead of 50%). Still not that bad since you usually want a plan for dealing with Torment/tormentors anyway if you're going into extended.
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Dec 25, 2015 05:00
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Internet Kraken posted:This leads to my favorite message in the game. The butterfly can only feel hate for you!
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Dec 25, 2015 05:02
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If you have 15 good mutations without a single serious downside you are either insanely lucky, worshipping Jivya/Xom and lucky, or you are grinding megazigs and have hundreds of curemuts to grind with or dozens of benmuts. None of them are really relevant to a regular character who hasn't already won the game. Changing malmut to glow is a bad idea though, contam is awful. It's another mechanic that could use a rework.
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Dec 25, 2015 05:15
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Internet Kraken posted:This leads to my favorite message in the game. Honest confession: I don't like taking this sacrifice purely because I feel bad about when the adventurer ascends from the Dungeon and yet finds that even outside there is nothing but hatred for him.
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Dec 25, 2015 05:49
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Dee Ehm posted:Do you really still eat purple yes
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Dec 25, 2015 06:28
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Dee Ehm posted:Honest confession: I don't like taking this sacrifice purely because I feel bad about when the adventurer ascends from the Dungeon and yet finds that even outside there is nothing but hatred for him. An old lady sits in a chair by the fire, wondering about her son and if his life as an adventurer will work out. As she thinks over the long years spent raising him, she suddenly decides he was a huge rear end in a top hat anyways and hopes he gets flattened by an ogre.
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Dec 25, 2015 06:38
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Internet Kraken posted:An old lady sits in a chair by the fire, wondering about her son and if his life as an adventurer will work out. As she thinks over the long years spent raising him, she suddenly decides he was a huge rear end in a top hat anyways and hopes he gets flattened by an ogre. I think the same things about characters' religions. Assuming they find anything approaching peace on the surface most Gods will become furious and excommunicate them for not killing enough anymore.
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Dec 25, 2015 07:12
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If anyone else is up late on Christmas Eve, I'm working on another MiBe: https://crawl.s-z.org/#watch-Arivia Just finished Swamp and Spider, time to clean out the first part of Vaults/Depths/Elf. Advice appreciated!
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Dec 25, 2015 07:24
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rj54x posted:So I've ascended a few melee'rs, but haven't had any luck with casters yet. I've recently fired up a DsFE of Veh after splatting a series of DE's and MF's. So far, he's picked up claws 2 and mana shield muts. My question is - do the claws mean that it would be worth my while to focus unarmed for a little bit so I have a fallback when I run out of mana? Also, does getting the mana shield mut early mean I'm more likely to get the 2nd or 3rd tier of that mutation, which sound like they would be great on a blaster? This question got buried in mutation fightposting. Ds mutations are set up so you always get all 3 tiers of the ones you start getting, even though it might take you a while. And the mana shield mutation is fantastic for blasters. As far as having a fallback is concerned, you can definitely play the character that way of you want to!
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Dec 25, 2015 08:18
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Holy balls, getting Spiny 2 before level 10 as a DsNe is pretty great, especially when I immediately got Powered by Death afterward. I'm running around bopping people with a +5 quarterstaff of pain, but I just picked up a staff of death, and I don't know which one would be better for what is probably a 3 rune game, because I'm a casual at heart. If I'm reading the knowledge bots right, pain checks rN, but the staff of death's extra damage is unresistable? Or at least it says it doesn't check AC, but I figure it checks something. EDIT: Minotaur had this: the +7 quarterstaff of Meto (weapon) {pain, rF+ SInv}. Only source of SInv so far, and puts me at rF++. I assume this is The Weapon For Me over the staff of death?
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Dec 25, 2015 08:24
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Holy balls, getting Spiny 2 before level 10 as a DsNe is pretty great, especially when I immediately got Powered by Death afterward. I'm running around bopping people with a +5 quarterstaff of pain, but I just picked up a staff of death, and I don't know which one would be better for what is probably a 3 rune game, because I'm a casual at heart. If I'm reading the knowledge bots right, pain checks rN, but the staff of death's extra damage is unresistable? Or at least it says it doesn't check AC, but I figure it checks something. rN stops both equally. Quarterstaff is better against things not resistant to negative though. Evo miight make magic staff better in other circumstances? Not sure. Staff of Death gives you more spellpower and lets you wear a shield (and a pip of rN+ I think?).
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Dec 25, 2015 08:33
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I thought a single point of rN on a monster negated pain completely but only reduced death.
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Dec 25, 2015 08:39
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Not that it matters much since almost every single monster in the game either has no rN or rN+++, with the only exceptions being ones that picked up rN gear.
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Dec 25, 2015 13:16
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Darox posted:Not that it matters much since almost every single monster in the game either has no rN or rN+++, with the only exceptions being ones that picked up rN gear. I had to check. It's literally every monster other than those with rN gear, hah.
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Dec 25, 2015 17:56
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Having acended fighter fighters and casty casters, I'm trying my hand at some of the weirder/more finicky hybrids. Finally got a Naga Transmuter of Chei off the ground, just entered Lair, and looking for some advice on where to go from here:code:-What should I train next? Blade Hands and Ice Form are both perfectly castable, so I think I'm going to focus on defense and some sort of range attack next. -Speaking of ranged, not sure which skill is best for Transmuters. I have tomahawks and a short bow of velocity, but also passed by a gadget shop with some rods if Evo is a good route. -For defenses, should I pump dodge or start prepping for heavy armor use? I have +0 randart chainmail with +11 Int and some other minor bonuses plus a -Stealth malus, which might ease the pain of casting in armor. -How do Cheibros deal with large open spaces like the ones I'm about to hit in Lair? Stealth helps when you can get back to a nearby corridor, but I'm worried about stumbling into Death Yak packs with no narrow areas around. Already blew through most of my consumables when I got caught between a bunch of Orc Warriors, Ogres and a Killer Bees in an open level, and I need to be careful until I get Step From Time. I only found (and used) one teleport scroll so far, so that's not an option either. E: Wrong malus on the armor! I mixed it up with another randart. Big Mad Drongo fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Dec 25, 2015 |
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Dec 25, 2015 18:08
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Having acended fighter fighters and casty casters, I'm trying my hand at some of the weirder/more finicky hybrids. Finally got a Naga Transmuter of Chei off the ground, just entered Lair, and looking for some advice on where to go from here: Dodging first, maybe armour later. a +0 chainmail is going to be complete trash by the end of lair or shortly after at the very latest, no matter what it has. Cloud spells would support your melee nicely, chei's int boost will start kicking in and get those more accessible for you. Stealth should actually help a lot in lair - be careful how you explore and approach, throw tomahawks to help split off packs, and move backwards some while piety is low enough to make that work. Then start finding some teleport scrolls.
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Dec 25, 2015 18:23
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Uh more Unarmed Combat to start. 10/11 is a nice place to switch out for other skills early game but increasing your attack rate is always a good thing when you're relying on that as your Kill Dudes skill. Keep it training while eyeing other options. Ranged combat isn't a necessary thing in Lair because there are few dangers that you want to soften up before being adjacent and you generally don't have the experience to spare. You can burn wands on particularly serious targets like Hydra or Black Mamba (in both cases Ice Form is your go-to form). If you are planning on it, particularly as Chei since movement is so costly, choose one option and focus on that. There's no particular 'best' skill for a Transmuter to use, maybe you can argue Throwing because it uses your stats more heavily, but it's your choice or whatever you find on the floor. Defenses are your choice; chain with that big bonus isn't going to hurt your spellcasting much once you've got some Armour skill and the Dex malus is going to be absorbed by Chei stats. Armour tends to be more hits but less damage each time whereas Dodge tends towards bursts of damage when you fail a dice roll. Both are useful in combination and Chei can handle heavier armours. To handle large open areas you yell a lot to attract attention towards your corridors or kill holes. You can prep them yourself with wands of digging or disintegration and just sort of hang around walls a lot.
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Dec 25, 2015 18:24
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Big Mad Drongo posted:-What should I train next? Blade Hands and Ice Form are both perfectly castable, so I think I'm going to focus on defense and some sort of range attack next. More fighting would be very nice, as well as more unarmed and more dodging. Lair is too early for a transmuter to worry about ranged options, since you're still not rock solid in melee. Throwing is a good choice if shoals is in your game, otherwise take your pick, all the forms of ranged combat have something to recommend them, though throwing is generally the "best" if you have a large supply of branded javelins. The best way to handle open areas as a Chei character is to play well. I know that's not very helpful, but that's the only advice I can give. Explore carefully so that you're never exposed with unexplored territory on many sides. Always have a path back to cover that lets you fight enemies one or two at a time, and explore so that you have the turns to take it as soon as you see something nasty. Always retreat before you engage so that you only pull a few enemies at once. You've passed the point of the game at which Chei is directly going to kill you, but you're still extremely vulnerable and need to play super cautiously, especially without access to teleportation. Don't auto explore if you can resist it until you can mash a few death yaks without breaking a sweat.
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Dec 25, 2015 19:21
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Here's that Pain or Death dude I asked about earlier. I've been playing this game since before Dwarven stuff was removed and have only recently embraced Eat The Purple.code:+5 ring mail of Qyririac {rC+ Slay+4} +11 chain mail "Pyicohen" {rC+ rN+} +8 chain mail "Veget" {Int+2} I was using the +11 one, which combined with my other stuff gave me some really nice resists and defenses, so I'll probably just switch back to that instead of living the fantasy of dragon armor demon guy. Oh, and I'm not really using Kiku at all, as I'm so effective just beating things to death with Regen 1, Powered by Death 2, and the Regen spell that I don't know if I'll ever put in the effort to get the higher Necromancy stuff up, though I did just find the Necronomicon (to go with literally 15 other books, gifts included). If I wanted to maybe try some extended, what god should I shoot for? I was thinking Ash to get mad skills and maybe shuffle some around, or comedy Makhleb to become immortal. If I do, is god wrath tied to maximum piety reached, or current piety? I never tried it before, but I assume I can't just equip an amulet of faith a few times before leaving to lessen the wrath, right?
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Dec 25, 2015 19:49
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Jesus loving Christmas, nevermind. Just got killed in two shots opening a door in Depths to an Iron Giant. Blurry Vision  EDIT: Yeah, ~80 damage from Iron Shot and then 81 from a +0 dire flail. What the gently caress 
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Dec 25, 2015 19:55
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Today I've lost four characters, I'm awful at this game, merry christmas.
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Dec 25, 2015 19:57
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Jesus loving Christmas, nevermind. Just got killed in two shots opening a door in Depths to an Iron Giant. Blurry Vision They're an enemy in Dis too. They're still terrifying there, even for a character that waltzes through hell sentinels.
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Dec 25, 2015 20:24
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Doom hound change. They now only howl once, and what they summon never includes doom hounds
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Dec 26, 2015 00:56
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Instead you get the higher tier Tar monsters hounding you! An interesting change.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:02
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DR: DOOM hounds only summon MOOD hounds.
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Dec 26, 2015 02:32
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I've wasted an Octopode Venom Mage for the longest time because I thought I needed Area of Effect for Vaults:5, and I thought I had to do something stupid like grind up xp in abyss, which wasn't any fun. My best spell was poison arrow, and I thought Chain Lightning would be absolutely essential. Finally decided it wasn't worth the tedium of dragging out this character, decided to just charge V5 with a devil-may-care attitude and actually start enjoying the game again. Turns out, I was underestimating my abilities and overestimating Vaults:5. All I needed was a single blink scroll, poison arrow, 70+ mana, and one potion of haste... Oh, and Gozag. Turns out that bribery talent I always thought was lame was actually Favorite moment? _The tentacled monstrosity stares, then turns away, jangling a coin purse. As a side note, an octopus using the macabre necklace can wear nine rings for pointless mana overflow. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 05:30
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Only doom hounds are readying themselves to howl now.
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Dec 26, 2015 05:48
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Dec 26, 2015 05:58
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Hey fungus when are we getting temmie lank?
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Dec 26, 2015 06:45
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rchandra posted:Add a staff of earth as well, LRD can work - I don't remember how many # you need to make it sensible (they're only normal rock at that point, at least). There's also passwall. It probably doesn't matter anymore, but eyes of devastation are almost always a good option for this situation. Assuming you do the recommended Slime dive and didn't clear each floor there should be some wandering around slime. It's easy enough to pull one a couple floors - and much easier than pulling a deep troll earth mage all the way back from Depths.
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Dec 26, 2015 07:57
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code:
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Dec 26, 2015 07:59
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Ha, tried a Kobold Assassin of Pakellas, went pretty well until I got overconfident around Saint Roka. The real annoying part of that run was that the game refused to give me wands. Pakellas gave me disintegrate and teleport, and I found random uselessness, and that was it. Mostly made use of a supercharged rod of the clouds, which is pretty great for farting out death. Still, that run would have been much better with some wands.
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Dec 26, 2015 08:07
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SirSamVimes posted:Hey fungus when are we getting temmie lank? ?
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Dec 26, 2015 08:31
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hOI!!! im mara!!! And dis is my friend....mara!!!
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Dec 26, 2015 10:45
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Question for you experts, which of these weapons should my MiFi^Oka shield bearer be wielding? If you can tell me why that would be even better. Cheers and merry christmas.code:
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Dec 26, 2015 10:53
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