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Afraid of Audio posted:i started playing this again after a long absence and its real good/feels a lot easier in the beginning Conversely I started a new game and had my initial party wiped out by the first bandit fight
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Dec 26, 2015 02:28
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They've got the starter dungeons tweaked pretty nicely, and once your guys are level 2 you're pretty OP compared to what you're fighting. poo poo changes pretty quickly around after you hit the higher level dungeons, so don't worry about things being easy forever. I've sort of come to the conclusion that there is never a time to take a crusader or leper past the level 1 dungeons. Being unable to really do much past rank 1/2 really just makes them bad compared to other options. They both have good damage bases, but not crazy past other people, and there are a good number of front line enemies that get +prot as you go up. In addition there are a decent number of boss/mini-boss stuff where only being able to effect the front 2 rows is really bad. They work out in level 1 dungeons ok because you can muscle through stuff, but at level 3 they're really iffy, and level 5 I wouldn't care to try. If you ever think that you should take one of them, take a man-at-arms instead (he hits front 3, has a stun out to rank 3 that also pushes, has a guard ally, and then pick any 1 extra skill cuz they're all decent).
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Dec 26, 2015 21:16
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what the hell is going on with marks? I marked a guy with a houndmaster and both my bounty hunter and HM didn't get any bonus damage to hitting them (with mark designated skills), but the arbalest did
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Dec 26, 2015 21:47
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Hrm, haven't had any issues with marking not giving damage bonus properly that I've noticed. Guess I could try to test it a bit, are you sure it wasn't just low damage rolls on the skills?
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Dec 26, 2015 22:03
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ZypherIM posted:They've got the starter dungeons tweaked pretty nicely, and once your guys are level 2 you're pretty OP compared to what you're fighting. poo poo changes pretty quickly around after you hit the higher level dungeons, so don't worry about things being easy forever. At least the Crusader can still heal / stress heal others, even if he can't hit ranks 3 and 4. Leper is just kinda meh.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:27
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Yea he has a heal/stress heal, but both of those are weaker than other characters who do those individually. I guess maybe if you worked up some party where the crusader was the healer/stress healer or something it might work, otherwise I'd rather put a hellion or something in that slot.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:30
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:At least the Crusader can still heal / stress heal others, even if he can't hit ranks 3 and 4. Leper is just kinda meh. leper would be great if only the front 2 spots existed
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Dec 26, 2015 22:35
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Well he has things going for him, it is just that the few patches have basically ate away at why those worked, so he has ended up in a spot that isn't useful. If he had some sort of prot pierce on his attacks, or if his knockback had like a +25% more base chance or something he could be pretty good again.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:38
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ZypherIM posted:I guess maybe if you worked up some party where the crusader was the healer/stress healer or something it might work, otherwise I'd rather put a hellion or something in that slot. Well, naturally. The best front line is always going to be some combination of hellions and abominations, but if you're going to mix it up at all the crusader is a pretty excellent class to do it with. He's got a tremendous amount of support on a heavy damage chassis and he actually can hit the back rows if you really need him to. But honestly I don't even run Holy Lance most of the time unless I'm camping, it's pretty rare that he doesn't have something relevant to do between healing/stunning/general face smashing. The Leper is another story altogether, since he has very little utility. And don't get me started on people who take leper + crusader together.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:01
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Helical Nightmares posted:Inspired by someone else who mentioned it, I went searching for what else the Darkest Dungeon narrator Wayne June has done. The noises this guy makes in the thing on the doorstep. Good lord, that killed the horror of it.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:10
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Gabriel Pope posted:Well, naturally. The best front line is always going to be some combination of hellions and abominations, but if you're going to mix it up at all the crusader is a pretty excellent class to do it with. He's got a tremendous amount of support on a heavy damage chassis and he actually can hit the back rows if you really need him to. But honestly I don't even run Holy Lance most of the time unless I'm camping, it's pretty rare that he doesn't have something relevant to do between healing/stunning/general face smashing. I think the best frontline is a man-at-arms and a hellion or abonmination. Crusader brings a bunch of support, but I find being able to apply damage/stun to rank 3 is worth far more than the support you can get from crusader. Shuffle doesn't really effect him either, you can damage/stun from spots 1-3. The push is actually really useful for some enemies as well, since there are a bunch of enemies that have crappy attacks from position 3. Guard is pretty great against a lot of threats too (especially big hitting things later on). There are some other setups that can work well, but often need some +dodge trinkets to really stay alive.
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Dec 26, 2015 23:43
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Crusaders do like 50% more damage to skeletons which is pretty cool
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Dec 27, 2015 01:27
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I guess this time it is the skeletons who will have the bad time. ah ha ha ha
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Dec 27, 2015 01:32
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Any "Before I Play" tips for someone who bought it on sale to help my enjoyment?
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Dec 27, 2015 02:08
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Torches give you 25 light, you'll want to keep it at 75+ in general. Lower light gives you more loot, but mosters hurt a ton more and stuff. If you want more specific tips feel free to ask, I can write some stuff up in spoiler tags.
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Dec 27, 2015 02:12
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Has anyone been crazy enough to go in a Champion difficulty dungeon with 0 Torch light throughout? And does the loot gain from going in with 0 light provide a noticable improvement in amount of or quality of loot?
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Dec 27, 2015 02:19
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Kly posted:Crusaders do like 50% more damage to skeletons which is pretty cool  ) but don't Crusaders still wreck the Ruins at any level?
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Dec 27, 2015 03:01
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Crusaders are only +25% dmg. The thing is the stuff they can hit with that increased damage aren't a big deal really. Stuff in the back ranks is what tends to screw you up, sometimes there is a sword skeleton in rank2 you can kill, but those you can usually clean up with other class options too. He works good against necromancer I guess, but that is about it. 0 light is a very noticeable increase in loot. The biggest thing that makes it really hard is you can get a shambler randomly at 0 light, so you have to be able to fight or be ready to just dump it. You'll also need to use stress relief options a lot more, and dodge based defense doesn't work really because enemies have a huge accuracy boost.
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Dec 27, 2015 03:30
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Apocron posted:Any "Before I Play" tips for someone who bought it on sale to help my enjoyment? Your dudes are disposable, don't get too attached to them. If they die, replace them. If they go insane or get bogged down with a ton of negative quirks that seem like a total hassle to deal with, fire them or send them on suicide missions. As long as one guy survives you get to keep all the loot you picked up along the way (though not necessarily the quest rewards if you've failed the mission), so you can always stick it out with a bunch of clown shoes adventurers when you need to, retreat before the last one falls, fire him, and still make a profit to spend on your more worthwhile employees.
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Dec 27, 2015 04:23
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Bad Seafood posted:Prioritize upgrading your stage coach before everything else. At a minimum you'll want four fresh recruits every time you return to town. Regardless, you'll want a large roster. Nthing this. You definitely will want to have a full 25-person roster to rotate teams with, so upgrade that stagecoach to access more characters. And yes, get rid of guys who are in early levels if their diseases and negative quirks add up...sometimes it isn't worth it--especially earlygame--to keep trying to pay off their maladies. That money is better spent elsewhere and the roster spot could go to a fresh face. Maybe it's just me but another thing I prioritized early was just the Vestal heal skills; I leveled up those 2 skills for some Vestals just so I could live longer earlier on in the game with better heals.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:11
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To echo the other guys a bit, here are the things I'd make sure to prioritize: stage coach to 4 guys/day, first level of skill upgrades, first level of weapon/armor upgrades. Expand the coach as you need to, but you don't need to prioritize making it huge, just enough to make sure you have some open slots to grab anyone you want. Level 1 upgrades makes a huge difference for doing dungeons and are dirt cheap money wise. As you get guys to the higher level dungeons, you sort of want to have them upgraded for it, which will put you in a weird spot since you won't have everything unlocked nor the cash to upgrade the whole roster. High level dungeon enemies are tougher sort of across the board, but there are also new enemies and new effects on some skills (marks, blight effects, etc) so expect a bit of a jump when you hit those. Since there are new things to learn and some old strategies maybe don't work anymore, be really ready to retreat with your higher level guys if poo poo goes south. Edit: crusader talk: damage bonus starts out at +15%, with +5% per rank. ZypherIM fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 10:57
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ZypherIM posted:Hrm, haven't had any issues with marking not giving damage bonus properly that I've noticed. Guess I could try to test it a bit, are you sure it wasn't just low damage rolls on the skills? i was going by the range that it gives you when you mouse over the monster and for both of the attacks it fell basically at the bottom of that range, so at least that one had to be accurate. and if i bounced from monster to monster (with the same prot value) it was the same range
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Dec 27, 2015 13:03
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If anyone wants a laugh, looking at the latest Steam Reviews is a pretty good way to kill a few minutes.
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Dec 27, 2015 17:54
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Those are amazing, thank you for that. 
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Dec 27, 2015 18:22
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Re: Crusader chat: Crusader doesn't have issues hitting back ranks. Holy Lance is one of the better back rank attacks in the game, 12% mod crit is the dream. I've run two crusaders together with some speed massaging to let them more reliably alternate lances and it's really good even outside the ruins. And most of the time even at max ranks dungeons you don't need to be able to shuffle your party too much because the first turn just kills everything in ranks 3 and 4 (and then you have awesome stun effects + stress heals to loop in). With a good camping buff and the right trinkets holy lance is really amazing. I really wish they would add a bunch of new trinkets before release day. Just let the interns go crazy for a week or two. End game gets kinda boring when most ancestor trinkets are bad and I've gotten everything I need loot-wise without ever even doing a 0-light run. TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 18:44
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I love Holy Lance Crusaders. It's a solid attack that also helps mitigate position fuckery and makes the class relevant in basically all situations, unlike Leper, who is just a worthless lump of poo poo any time you get ambushed or run into enemies with a lot of pushes/pulls or enemies where you need to hit past 1-2. Leper needs like a total rework to be worth his slot.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:38
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People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I haven't played since early last year, waiting to a totally fresh run when the full game is released in a few weeks. I never found the game that punishing and pretty easy to steamroll when you got to a certain point when I played it almost a year ago. I am also someone who played classic ironman for his first ever xcom run.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:55
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TheresNoThyme posted:I really wish they would add a bunch of new trinkets before release day. Just let the interns go crazy for a week or two. End game gets kinda boring when most ancestor trinkets are bad and I've gotten everything I need loot-wise without ever even doing a 0-light run. There's a bunch of kickstarter backers who're supposed to design items, but the devs don't seem to have gotten around to that yet.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:01
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Operant posted:People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I haven't played since early last year, waiting to a totally fresh run when the full game is released in a few weeks. I never found the game that punishing and pretty easy to steamroll when you got to a certain point when I played it almost a year ago. I am also someone who played classic ironman for his first ever xcom run. Game is great but lots of people don't understand it & don't understand what the devs are trying to do with it. That said I have yet to see a steam forum that wasn't a flaming trashpile. If nothing else people bitch endlessly about the price.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:09
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Typed a bunch of stuff, felt it got a little too long. Basically, crusaders work probably better than anything else in short ruin runs, and outside that are fairly disappointing. The other damage people have better buffs and better ranges on skills/stuns and no need to monkey with your attack making you unable to use it next turn. Also they work on stuff that isn't unholy. If you want to monkey with stuff, there are setups that are less finicky and good against more than just unholy.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:11
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What's the resistance to the Siren's captivate ability based on? I had a fight where she only ever managed to get one person, the turn before she died. It was pretty funny!
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Dec 27, 2015 20:18
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The Deleter posted:What's the resistance to the Siren's captivate ability based on? I had a fight where she only ever managed to get one person, the turn before she died. It was pretty funny! Debuff
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Dec 27, 2015 20:27
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It's debuff resistance iirc.ZypherIM posted:Typed a bunch of stuff, felt it got a little too long. Basically, crusaders work probably better than anything else in short ruin runs, and outside that are fairly disappointing. The other damage people have better buffs and better ranges on skills/stuns and no need to monkey with your attack making you unable to use it next turn. Also they work on stuff that isn't unholy. My personal experience is that double crusaders work fine on long runs in level 5 dungeons even outside the ruins if you build a good party for them. Yes obviously they are great in ruins but those howling zombies exist everywhere and when you're crit'ing for 30+ damage and turning every third fight into a stress heal marathon then it hardly feels like you're handicapping yourself too much. Past a certain point you gotta admit you're optimizing for a difficulty level that doesn't exist in the game. Taking 2 crusaders to lvl 6 is solid anyways for the necromancer boss, I had 2 of them plus a hellion and yes even a leper as the rotating tanks for my first lvl 5 crew and it worked fine. I've only ever been wiped once in a lvl 5 dungeon and that was because I didn't understand how the scaling on artery pinch worked (good lord....) TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 20:30
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Operant posted:People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I haven't played since early last year, waiting to a totally fresh run when the full game is released in a few weeks. I never found the game that punishing and pretty easy to steamroll when you got to a certain point when I played it almost a year ago. I am also someone who played classic ironman for his first ever xcom run. Many of those salty reviews have 50+ hours into the game. I saw one with 160ish. The game is so terrible it forces you to play for weeks before you can give it up.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:42
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Thanks for the answers!
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Dec 27, 2015 20:42
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ZypherIM posted:The other damage people have better buffs and better ranges on skills/stuns and no need to monkey with your attack making you unable to use it next turn. Also they work on stuff that isn't unholy. Also they have solid heals and the most functional stress heal in the game OH WAIT NO that's the Crusader again. Crusader is very easily in the top 5 classes and arguably in the top 3. He has shortcomings but makes up for them with sheer power and utility. "Works on stuff that isn't unholy"? He's the 4th highest damage class in the game (3rd if you're not counting the Leper, which in practical terms you shouldn't.)
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Dec 27, 2015 20:44
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Operant posted:People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I haven't played since early last year, waiting to a totally fresh run when the full game is released in a few weeks. I never found the game that punishing and pretty easy to steamroll when you got to a certain point when I played it almost a year ago. I am also someone who played classic ironman for his first ever xcom run. Regarding the negative review downvote brigate (and holy moly are they out in force), I think there are a lot of people out there who are trying to play it like XCOM, where they expect to make it through a campaign without losing more than a handful of dudes or aborting more than one or two missions. That kind of thinking will make you nuts in this game.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:45
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Operant posted:People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I haven't played since early last year, waiting to a totally fresh run when the full game is released in a few weeks. I never found the game that punishing and pretty easy to steamroll when you got to a certain point when I played it almost a year ago. I am also someone who played classic ironman for his first ever xcom run. Every time Red Hook adds something the whiny babies who play this game don't like that fucks with whatever exploitative strategy they've developed to try to cheese the game's considerable difficulty, they throw a tantrum. Game's great.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:46
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Operant posted:People really are incredibly salty on steam about this game, is it really that bad? I actually came here to ask the same question because i looked at the store page and all of the reviews shown there are Not recommended, but i trust people here more than anime avatars in the steam community
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Dec 27, 2015 20:49
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I am garbage at understanding numbers in this game, and this made me worry:Gabriel Pope posted:(3rd if you're not counting the Leper, which in practical terms you shouldn't.) See, I love the Leper, mostly from a flavor standpoint but also because I like slow characters that hit like trucks, which he sort of exemplifies in a turn-based game. If I play the game with an eye for tactics but don't bother too much with class "tiers" if such a term can be applied to the game, am I going to never make it? I haven't played in a while and this worries me. i just love all of these classes so much you guys not one of them is truly generic
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Dec 27, 2015 20:53
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