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chitoryu12 posted:By the way, this mission with T-Bone infiltrating Defalt's "love shack" was actually one of the first full missions previewed for the game! This is how it looked at E3 2013: At the very least, this does look like something you can replicate in the game as it is now, so it's not a huge difference between what they're showing here and what we got. It's all setup in such a way that all these little detail things happen perfectly in sync to create a cool demo, but everything they show here does make it into the game. It's not the same as, say, Bioshock Infinite and how early demos for that are for a completely different game to the one they eventually released.
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Dec 26, 2015 06:29
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So is it just me or could that last mission have been completely avoided if Aiden had just told Damien the truth that someone jacked the data and he needed more time to get it back? Hell, Damien could have even donated some of his fixer buddies to help take Defalt out. Instead he decides to be a dick for no reason, nearly gets sisterwife killed, and ends up with his picture on the news because he decided to piss Damien off. EDIT: Though to be fair "If aiden wasn't a dick" could describe a way to avoid about 90% of this game's missions. legoman727 fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 07:50
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I love how minuscule the amount of plot is in this presentation (as well as most other ones from E3). Just a few exchanges of words between Aiden and T-Bone. Gotta hide the awful story as much as possible!END ME SCOOB posted:Reasons Bad Blood beats the base game:
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Dec 26, 2015 08:10
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SatansBestBuddy posted:At the very least, this does look like something you can replicate in the game as it is now, so it's not a huge difference between what they're showing here and what we got. It's all setup in such a way that all these little detail things happen perfectly in sync to create a cool demo, but everything they show here does make it into the game. It's not the same as, say, Bioshock Infinite and how early demos for that are for a completely different game to the one they eventually released. Well, not all of it. The cops don't try to arrest you at all, so you can't wait to hit them with a Blackout and run. You also can't really hide from them without escaping the circle, so the more cautious stealth driving at the beginning and hiding your car behind a locked gate simply don't happen. The mobile player is antagonist-only in the final release, and they definitely can't interfere during story missions. The only stuff that's actually the same in the final game is from the time Aiden hacks into the webcam to the point where T-Bone drives away. The rest of the demo is practically impossible to set up for real.
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Dec 26, 2015 08:49
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Here's a question: why have we spent the entire game chasing down some McGuffin that our slimy step-dad wants instead of using our sick hacker skills and apparently full-time employee Jordi to track down our kidnapped sister, rescue her, and hit slimy step-dad with a stick? Has this ever been addressed? Damien clearly hasn't been able to watch Aiden's every move and all but admitted he's a worse hacker (the line in the most recent ep about "learning" from Aiden's tricks), so why haven't we been running around investigating his poo poo and just tell him that yeah, we're totally looking for the scrambled recording of a ghost girl or whatever the gently caress this game is about.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:27
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Crowetron posted:Here's a question: why have we spent the entire game chasing down some McGuffin that our slimy step-dad wants instead of using our sick hacker skills and apparently full-time employee Jordi to track down our kidnapped sister, rescue her, and hit slimy step-dad with a stick? Has this ever been addressed? Damien clearly hasn't been able to watch Aiden's every move and all but admitted he's a worse hacker (the line in the most recent ep about "learning" from Aiden's tricks), so why haven't we been running around investigating his poo poo and just tell him that yeah, we're totally looking for the scrambled recording of a ghost girl or whatever the gently caress this game is about. I'm not sure when it gets revealed, but Damien isn't inferior to Aiden in hacking. Aiden was actually just a street thug and thief who was really good with guns, and when he hooked up with Damien he actually learned about hacking. Aiden's mostly a script kiddie using pre-programmed hacks, not actually a creative coder.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:36
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chitoryu12 posted:I'm not sure when it gets revealed, but Damien isn't inferior to Aiden in hacking. Aiden was actually just a street thug and thief who was really good with guns, and when he hooked up with Damien he actually learned about hacking. Aiden's mostly a script kiddie using pre-programmed hacks, not actually a creative coder. This does not answer why we can't have professional criminal Jordi look into the matter, since Damien doesn't seem to know about him. Or any of our hacker buddies, unless Clara was working for Damien? I didn't really understand what was happening with that betrayal or why it happened.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:40
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Crowetron posted:This does not answer why we can't have professional criminal Jordi look into the matter, since Damien doesn't seem to know about him. Or any of our hacker buddies, unless Clara was working for Damien? I didn't really understand what was happening with that betrayal or why it happened. Spoilers for Clara's betrayal for people who just want to know now: She was hired by Lucky Quinn (not knowing the identity of her client) to find out who hit the Merlaut, and identified Aiden and Damien and got daughterniece killed. She decided to redeem herself by working with Aiden to figure out who hired her and get revenge, which meant hiding the fact that she was responsible for Lena's death in the first place. The "betrayal" actually happened during the prologue cutscene before they ever met, and Aiden is only just now finding out that she caused everything.
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Dec 26, 2015 09:45
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chitoryu12 posted:Spoilers for Clara's betrayal for people who just want to know now: She was hired by Lucky Quinn (not knowing the identity of her client) to find out who hit the Merlaut, and identified Aiden and Damien and got daughterniece killed. She decided to redeem herself by working with Aiden to figure out who hired her and get revenge, which meant hiding the fact that she was responsible for Lena's death in the first place. The "betrayal" actually happened during the prologue cutscene before they ever met, and Aiden is only just now finding out that she caused everything. GOD. loving. drat IT.
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Dec 26, 2015 11:36
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Crowetron posted:and apparently full-time employee Jordi to track down our kidnapped sister, rescue her, and hit slimy step-dad with a stick? Jordi only works for the highest bidder. This certainly won't come back to bite Aiden in the rear end later on because the writers are clearly more creative than that. (Yes, that was sacrasm.)
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Dec 26, 2015 15:15
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I thought Damien was the guy who taught Aiden?
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Dec 26, 2015 15:41
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Damien taught Aiden how to hack, Aiden taught Damien how to manipulate people. I don't know how Aiden could teach a skill he doesn't have. Maybe he hacked Damien's brain.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:56
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But Damien would've had to teach Aiden how to hack his brain, and if he knew how to do that from the start it begs the question of why he needed Aiden to do it. Then again, I suppose performing brain surgery on one's self is a difficult task.
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Dec 26, 2015 16:34
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KieranWalker posted:But Damien would've had to teach Aiden how to hack his brain, and if he knew how to do that from the start it begs the question of why he needed Aiden to do it. Then again, I suppose performing brain surgery on one's self is a difficult task. Aiden is really good at pressing the button on his phone when the prompt appears. e: he's an idiot savant
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Dec 26, 2015 16:36
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Damien taught Aiden how to hack, Aiden taught Damien how to manipulate people. I don't know how Aiden could teach a skill he doesn't have. Maybe he hacked Damien's brain. "See Damien the key to manipulation is hitting them in the throat with a collapsible baton then having you paid mercenary waterboard them."
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Dec 26, 2015 17:58
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See, Damien, if you give this man the amount of money specified on the menu, point your finger and grunt, you will get a carbonated drink from him. It's loving magic.
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Dec 26, 2015 18:08
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They really are the biggest pair of dumbasses who deserve each other. 
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Dec 26, 2015 18:19
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Damien taught Aiden how to hack, Aiden taught Damien how to manipulate people. I don't know how Aiden could teach a skill he doesn't have. Maybe he hacked Damien's brain. No wonder Damien's doing all of this counter-intuitive 'I want you to do this now let me incentivize you by doing something that makes doing what I want you to do harder' manipulation of Aiden. Aiden taught him to do that!
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Dec 26, 2015 22:12
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Aiden isn't a hacker, he just can press a button. Anyone with the super app could be the Fox. Sequel hook for a better main character?
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Dec 27, 2015 00:39
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The game has to be a third person open world shooter game, how do you best incorporate a hacker character like Ubisoft wants while keeping it actual hacking
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Dec 27, 2015 00:57
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Sinners Sandwich posted:The game has to be a third person open world shooter game, how do you best incorporate a hacker character like Ubisoft wants while keeping it actual hacking Do it like Sleeping Dogs, where firearms are rare, so you have to get creative? Or at least make it a bit more exciting that "press button, thing happens". A game having personality can cover a lot of flaws. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 00:58
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By making you a literal computer wizard who tweets to cast spells and poo poo, like we've already talked about.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:31
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SpookyLizard posted:By making you a literal computer wizard who tweets to cast spells and poo poo, like we've already talked about. I bought those tomes. I was highly underwhelmed by the results.
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Dec 27, 2015 01:40
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All guns in the city have been rigged with CTOS kill switches with the intended purpose of preventing all illegal usage; you get new guns either by being a cool enough dude to get to the hack minigame after silently taking down a guy (to stop the heart monitor from ruining the gun, of course) or by going to your friendly local illegal arms dealer who has non-city approved guns for sale (and does not in this alternate game have a grenade launcher for sale before the end of the first act).
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Dec 27, 2015 02:00
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Sinners Sandwich posted:The game has to be a third person open world shooter game, how do you best incorporate a hacker character like Ubisoft wants while keeping it actual hacking To start with, you're assuming that "Ubisoft" is this monolithic hive-mind entity, which might not be entirely correct...
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Dec 27, 2015 02:06
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:All guns in the city have been rigged with CTOS kill switches with the intended purpose of preventing all illegal usage; you get new guns either by being a cool enough dude to get to the hack minigame after silently taking down a guy (to stop the heart monitor from ruining the gun, of course) or by going to your friendly local illegal arms dealer who has non-city approved guns for sale (and does not in this alternate game have a grenade launcher for sale before the end of the first act). So MGS4 again?
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Dec 27, 2015 02:14
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PhazonLink posted:So MGS4 again? MGS4 sometimes managed to be fun when it remembered that it wasn't supposed to be a movie, so why not?
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Dec 27, 2015 02:45
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Drebin's boring enough to be in Watch_Dogz, trade in T-Bone but keep Little Gray in MGS4 to keep T-bone company
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Dec 27, 2015 02:51
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DialTheDude posted:I love how minuscule the amount of plot is in this presentation (as well as most other ones from E3). Just a few exchanges of words between Aiden and T-Bone. Gotta hide the awful story as much as possible! I'm willing to bet the story didn't even exist at the time of that E3 presentation, at least not in the form it does now.
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Dec 27, 2015 07:17
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"You gotta help me through this Aiden! I don't want to end up like Bedbug!"
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Dec 27, 2015 07:32
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Sinners Sandwich posted:Drebin's boring enough to be in Watch_Dogz, trade in T-Bone but keep Little Gray in MGS4 to keep T-bone company I do think that this game would be improved by a guy with a smooth voice giving melodramatic readings of the bosses' backstories.
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Dec 27, 2015 12:10
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Sinners Sandwich posted:The game has to be a third person open world shooter game, how do you best incorporate a hacker character like Ubisoft wants while keeping it actual hacking Every open world game since San Andreas would be improved a million times over if they stopped bloating up the optional filler bullshit and instead focused on making the missions--the meat of the game-- interesting. In Watch_Dogs you spend much of the time doing the same poo poo you were doing in GTAIII 15 years ago. And even in GTAIII when those activities were brand new they were designed largely around 'how easy is this to implement' instead of 'how fun is this'
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Dec 27, 2015 13:46
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bhlaab posted:Every open world game since San Andreas would be improved a million times over if they stopped bloating up the optional filler bullshit and instead focused on making the missions--the meat of the game-- interesting. In Watch_Dogs you spend much of the time doing the same poo poo you were doing in GTAIII 15 years ago. And even in GTAIII when those activities were brand new they were designed largely around 'how easy is this to implement' instead of 'how fun is this' This is the absolute truth. There's a difference between fun collectibles and "oh cool I get to follow an internet guide for a couple hours because there's no loving way I'm finding all this bullshit on my own." As much as I liked Assassin's Creed 2, gently caress everything about those feathers.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:01
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Making the whole limited guns thing work would require better designers, but if you had those in the first place the game would have been better even if the streets were paved with guns.
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Dec 27, 2015 15:19
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END ME SCOOB posted:I bought those tomes. I was highly underwhelmed by the results. Shoulda hacked them with your phone, obviously. SirDan3k posted:Making the whole limited guns thing work would require better designers, but if you had those in the first place the game would have been better even if the streets were paved with guns. This would also work much better in a not-open world game.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:32
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bhlaab posted:Every open world game since San Andreas would be improved a million times over if they stopped bloating up the optional filler bullshit and instead focused on making the missions--the meat of the game-- interesting. In Watch_Dogs you spend much of the time doing the same poo poo you were doing in GTAIII 15 years ago. And even in GTAIII when those activities were brand new they were designed largely around 'how easy is this to implement' instead of 'how fun is this' I think it's important to make the world feel alive and like it has a purpose, rather than empty. Red Dead Redemption and Fallout New Vegas make their open world feel like worlds through the setting, rather than being 'a big level so we can look cool at E3'.
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Dec 28, 2015 01:32
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Have their been any games that can do that in a cramped metropolitan area like Chicago 2013 A.D. ? I'm on the fence if Grand Theft Auto 5 lived up to what we want on that
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Dec 28, 2015 02:21
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OldMemes posted:I think it's important to make the world feel alive and like it has a purpose, rather than empty. Red Dead Redemption and Fallout New Vegas make their open world feel like worlds through the setting, rather than being 'a big level so we can look cool at E3'. Once again Sleeping Dogs is the superior Not Actually Containing Any Dogs open world crime game.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:26
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OldMemes posted:I think it's important to make the world feel alive and like it has a purpose, rather than empty. Red Dead Redemption and Fallout New Vegas make their open world feel like worlds through the setting, rather than being 'a big level so we can look cool at E3'. Well that's just the thing, most open world games care more about 'feeling' purposeful rather than being purposeful. The PS2 era of playing Vice City for an hour doing nothing but driving around and causing trouble in the virtual playground is over. We've seen it and it's no longer interesting. I think most open world players don't even bother with exploring the space and testing the limits of the systems anymore, they just power from objective to objective and the entire open world serves as, what, a longer walk to that objective? But instead of changing the approach, designers are using the same open world template as Vice City but instead filling the world with side quests and MMO checklists. Yknow, to take the players who power from objective to objective and say, "No, now exploring the environment IS an objective!" and hoping that works. The problem is that exploring the environment is something those players have no interest in, and instead of making it interesting they've made it 'feel' interesting by putting an objective marker on it, plopping an audio log down, and doing little else. Unfortunately, this seems to actually work more often than not because players are insane people who love crossing things off of a checklist even if those things are mind-numbingly boring. And then you get to the actual missions, the critical path and de facto way to progress. They come in two varieties: heavily instanced or vacuous. In one it's either so cordoned off the open world might as well not exist, or if it's not cordoned off going anywhere or doing anything the game doesn't expect you causes a fail state (so much for the whole open world sandbox thing). In the other you get "the cops are chasing you , escape from the cops" or "a car is driving around in a circle somewhere, blow it up, possibly before time expires" which has you interact with the open world sandbox on the most superficial level possible. So you have to start asking yourself: This open world must have taken a huge amount of money and effort to produce, and for what? Well, for marketing, I guess.I suppose it works, Watch_Dogs did sell a ton of copies, didn't it? A look at AAA publishers' recent and upcoming portfolios suggests that it might be difficult to even get a linear, level-based game greenlit nowadays. Sinners Sandwich's post was: Sinners Sandwich posted:The game has to be a third person open world shooter game, how do you best incorporate a hacker character like Ubisoft wants while keeping it actual hacking Without that first bit my answer wouldve been "Don't make it an open world shooter game. Make it a linear stealth action game instead. Splinter Cell with electronic subterfuge." Of course, I doubt the development team had the luxury of that choice, either. But all of the above is why a game like MGSV is such a revelation. Their environments are empty fields with pockets of interesting geometry. There is no point to exploring the environment, and there was no point in them spending too much time trying to make the environment 'feel' purposeful. Instead what you are doing is exploring the design, and the design is alive. Every single mission in that game has about five thousand different ways to complete it and all of them are considered equally valid. Of course there are crazy people who say that MGSV is 'boring' and 'unfinished' because you don't collect feathers and you can't play tennis with your cousin and the story doesn't tell you the tragic origin story of Shoot Gunner but those people are crazy. I'm not saying every open world game should be like Phantom Pain, just that they shouldn't take a 15 year old template for granted. You also have The Saboteur, which is "janky" whatever that means, but has well-considered missions. Almost every one lets you pick between stealth, assault, sabotage, sniping, or doing hit and run attacks with cars. Side activities have you blowing up guard towers, which in turn feeds into every other activity. There's also Hitman: Blood Money, which isn't exactly 'open world' but gives you a small highly reactive sandbox.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:32
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I know Chip likes to keep some variety for what he LPs but I would be pleasantly surprised if he went on to do good open world game Sleeping Dogs after finishing bad open world game Watch_Dogs.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:36
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