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So I went to my FLGS for the end year sale and all the Rebels stuff was sold out; since I have poor impulse control and didn't want to go home empty handed after a 20 minute trip, I bought the Slave I expansion and the Tie Bomber expansion (pretty much the only things X Wing related left in the store beside a couple core sets). Since I have the Tie-Fighters from the core sets (original and TFA one) and a Tie Interceptor, do you have any suggestions on how to play Empire with what I got?
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Dec 27, 2015 20:04
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A Firespray (Boba and Kath are both decent for Imps) plus an Interceptor ace wouldn't be a bad starting list. Possibly with a plain Academy Pilots or two to fill the remaining points. It would depend on exactly what upgrade cards you have available, but those ships wouldn't be a terrible starting point for you. Edit: if you have a Heavy Laser Cannon, that and nothing else on Krassis isn't too shabby either, and is relatively cheap.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:14
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HLC comes with the Slave I, so he does.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:27
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See also standard language about listbuilding online and printing it out normally being OK in most friendly games, though not in tournaments. If you've not got the cards, don't feel limited by that. Build lists that you think you'll want to play and try them out, it's the only way to figure out what to buy next.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:14
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KongGeorgeVII posted:Tournament report!  did your run Guri with AT, sensor jammer, Hotshot and pred? Got 2nd place in a tourney as well with that list 
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Dec 28, 2015 02:07
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Guri is a great pilot; it's a shame she doesn't see more play, but I guess people are wedded to high-PS on Ace pilots.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:38
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She has a great pilot ability. It's not so much that people are wedded to high PS aces, it's that high PS is arguably undercosted relative to the benefits. A point of PS is either 1 point in terms of pilots, or one point for two in VI, and you get sooooo much more than one point of return on it. In general terms, if you don't care about PS or want more ships, go for the 1/2 PS pilots. The next important threshold is the 3/4 PS generics, because they avoid double rerolls on Predator. After that, mid-PS pilots are really lackluster, because you're paying for PS that isn't useful against generics because they're trivially out-skilled, and isn't useful against aces, either. Guri would be almost identical in performance to what she is now if she was a PS 4, but the point less she'd cost would be incredibly useful - much more so than giving her PS 5. Until you get to around PS 8 (including VI), anything below that is generally not worth the extra points you spent on that PS.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:43
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Ran some Aturi cluster for my usual D&D group while we were down a player tonight. XWing with R2D2, Xwing with Plasma Torps and Targeting Astromech, and Ywing with R7 and TLT. They did the first three missions (patrol, save the HWK, and sensor net) and the one where you cripple but don't destroy the shuttle, only failing at the HWK mission. Good times were had. I was skeptical of the imperial AI, but it ended up working out, with them doing some bonehead moves that favored the players but more often than not getting roughly into a spot where they have a shot. Players were losing an Xwing almost every mission, though, and the Ywing was a beast.
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Dec 28, 2015 02:48
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Just realized there's more tabs in the x-wing builder, in collection for extra cards and models and stuff outside of set. Not sure how long that's been there, if it's been there a while or just added, but it's a sweet feature I've been wanting.
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Dec 28, 2015 03:21
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Had my first 'real' game of wangs last night. Some friends and I have dicked around with the game before but generally I've been demoing trying to get people interested and despite my large collection haven't gotten to spend a lot of time playing. Finally one of my friends took the bait and bought some Scum and Villainy stuff. He ended up running Boba Fett + IG-88B versus my Soontir, Whisper + Doomshuttle. As befits a first game, we flew extremely poorly but still had a blast. My great white space cow ended up being the unexpected start of the game as it waded into the thick of things, harassing Fett constantly. My opponent tried to chase down Soontir especially but very soon realised he couldn't match the maneuverability, but it came too late. He was caught in the centre of the board with inconvenient asteroids all around as my shuttle deliberately rammed in causing a three way pile up between his ships and my shuttle, but it came at the cost of a terrible judgement call with Soontir that lead to him all but being annihilated in one round of combat. Boba Fett eventually flew off the map trying to dodge Whisper and my shuttle, and Soontir perished in a desperate head-on confrontation with IG-88B, though managed to strip him down to 1 hull remaining. As Whisper swung in for the kill, IG-88B plowed into an asteroid and promptly exploded. I'm still not sure if that was a satisfying victory or not. The shuttle was my unexpected MVP - I'm definitely going to play around with some lists of Shuttle + other stuff.
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Dec 28, 2015 03:40
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Wowshawk posted:
I kinda want to try that list to get more experience with low PS blockers. But I don't have the second Most Wanted set for 4 bug zapper Z-95s. The best replacement I can come up with is Drea Renthal with a TLT and Unhinged. If anyone has a better idea on what to do with 29 points that doesn't involve Zs, I am all ears. Guri — StarViper 30 Predator 3 Sensor Jammer 4 "Hot Shot" Blaster 3 Autothrusters 2 Virago 1 Ship Total: 43 Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14 Binayre Pirate — Z-95 Headhunter 12 Feedback Array 2 Ship Total: 14 Drea Renthal — Y-Wing 22 Twin Laser Turret 6 Unhinged Astromech 1 Ship Total: 29
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Dec 28, 2015 04:06
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Wowshawk posted:
Yup! Exactly the same! Sensor Jammer is your TLT insurance, predator for consistent dice modification and hotshot so you can catch people out when they think they are safe because they always forget about it. I brought big rocks too even though I was running a small swarm because you actually want people to try and hide in a dense asteroid field. It makes blocking them so much easier if they are stuck between some roids. I don't even find I have many opportunities to use feedback array, I think I probably triggered it maybe 6 times in the whole tournament. People tend to do their best to avoid it and range 1 shots with 4 z-95s tend to get work done anyway. It definitely forces people to make hard choices and run away more than they would like to though because getting caught up in a feedback array trap is bad news.
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Dec 28, 2015 04:13
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Anyone got any good XXX lists involving the T70? I'm looking at this, tell me how bad it is and why: Poe Dameron PtL BB8 Autothrusters Red squadron veteran (x2) VI R2 astromech Autothrusters X-wings, gently caress yea 
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Dec 28, 2015 05:20
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What about this? Poe Dameron (31) Veteran Instincts (1) R5-P9 (3) Autothrusters (2) Wedge Antilles (29) Push the Limit (3) BB-8 (2) Integrated Astromech (0) Biggs Darklighter (25) Flechette Torpedoes (2) R3-A2 (2) Integrated Astromech (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Standard Poe, with R5-P9 instead of R2-D2. He is your closer. Wedge barrel rolls, pushes for a focus, clears stress and then takes a target lock as his actual action. He can really brutalise ships if he gets left alone. Biggs you hang back with a little bit, keep him at range 3 and force your opponents to split their fire. He also scares aces because you can double stress them and set wedge up with a kill shot if they aren't careful.
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Dec 28, 2015 05:48
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Endman posted:Guri is a great pilot; it's a shame she doesn't see more play, but I guess people are wedded to high-PS on Ace pilots. Its not her PS I hate (although it is bad) its her godawful cost. You're paying phantom prices for something thats basically a mediocre Tie Interceptor Virago should not be 1 point it should be 0. Royal guard and A-wing Test Pilot are both 0.
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Dec 28, 2015 06:47
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zVxTeflon posted:Its not her PS I hate (although it is bad) its her godawful cost. You're paying phantom prices for something thats basically a mediocre Tie Interceptor I think the Virago title is fairly costed at 1, as the system upgrade allows for strong upgrades. It's just that the star vipers are over costed by a point or two. It is much closer to the B-Wing crew mod, than to the titles you listed. I wonder how they will fix the star vipers in the rumored scum veterans pack. A negative cost title will likely make Virago prohibitively expensive by comparison, and I don't see giving up autothrusters for a mod of some sort working very well unless the mod dramatically increases their offensive capability.
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Dec 28, 2015 07:07
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Yeah, even if virago was 0 points they would still be over costed. Compare the Guri build which we have been discussing with any one of these three aces: TIE Phantom: · "Whisper" (32) Veteran Instincts (1) Fire Control System (2) Advanced Cloaking Device (4) Total: 39 TIE Advanced: · Darth Vader (29) Veteran Instincts (1) Engine Upgrade (4) TIE/x1 (0) Advanced Targeting Computer (1) Total: 35 TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27) Push The Limit (3) Autothrusters (2) Royal Guard TIE (0) Stealth Device (3) Total: 35 They are all standard builds, come in 4-8 points cheaper and in a 1v1 duel they can arc dodge guri all day. I think it's probably fair to say that the imperials would be considered the favourites in these match ups despite the points difference. Don't get me wrong, I love the starviper but it is definitely a B-grade ship compared to any of the 3 aces I posted. e: It will be hard to make a new title without making the Virago title obsolete. I feel like the starviper needs a better way to deal with stress so it can use it's s-loops more aggressively because currently you end up having to 1 bank or 2 forward back into the fight and I find usually your opponent has switched targets and is long gone. Maybe a Starviper only illicit could make the named pilots more competitive; then again maybe that's what the cloaking device is meant to do. Unfortunately a cloaking device Guri is just a bad phantom. KongGeorgeVII fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 07:11
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I don't know if there's a separate thread for new players or what, but I don't really know who else to ask, so anyway. I got a The Force Awakens core set of this game for Christmas, and I discovered that a) I really love miniatures games? and b) I have no idea what the gently caress I'm doing, so naturally I'm setting aside $100 from my next paycheck to buy more poo poo. That being said, local to me there's a few shops that run X-Wing game nights, and I'm interested in going, but I don't want to completely embarrass myself by knowing nothing about anything, so... What I want is to play a group that is as competitive as possible while still sticking to a "theme," so to that end I already have an X-Wing Expansion Pack in the mail (my local shops didn't have any in stock, only the core sets) and my friend bought out their last core set himself, so I have access to three T-70 X-Wings if I so choose (he's more of an Imperial guy, and I'm giving him my First Order TIEs). I don't know enough about the rules and existing "strong" cards to know my rear end from my elbow, but my girlfriend is currently painting my first T-70 to be black and orange to match Poe's Black Leader ship from TFA; including Poe in my deck/army/whatever is essentially non-negotiable. Is he a solid pilot? Can you play a competitive game with Poe in your squad? I see builds but I don't know how to parse the information, and was trying to gather free advice on the internet, which has led me to believe that everything your opponent plays is OP and everything you play sucks/is underpowered, no matter what that is. I've seen a lot of builds that feature Poe with various upgrade/loadout cards that I don't have access to; so I guess I can just eBay for the cards or whatever that I want instead of buying a whole huge fuckoff ship thing, but then I want to collect the ships because the models actually look pretty impressive... Anyway, what's a good "starting point" for someone who's new and really wants to use Poe Dameron as their ~special guy ace pilot~ for his dumb X-Wing team? Everywhere I look I see people saying he should use "Push the Limit" or "Veteran Instincts," but can someone explain to a new player why those are good choices? Also, last two quick questions: 1) Is it kosher to re-paint the models? I don't want to get in trouble for making one of my X-Wings into Black Leader if Black Leader is already a ship that exists with different stats and what-not. 2) I'm confused sometimes by how the turn and action order is supposed to go, since I've only played with the core set. You all pick a move on the dial in secret, put it down, then lowest pilot skill moves first, followed by next lowest, etc., with ties broken by whomever has the initiative, and then it goes in the reverse of that order to shoot - so high skill pilots get to move last and shoot first, which I assume is why they're "strong." My question, if that's all a correct understanding of how X-Wing works, is when you take actions. Is there like a third "action" phase between moving and attacking? Who "acts" first, and who "acts" last? Is taking an action part of that ship's movement phase - like you get to move, and then do an action? I'm confused because people talk about stockpiling focus tokens on ships and it makes no sense to me how that would work.
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Dec 28, 2015 07:39
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Each ship takes an action after moving during the activation phase. So Omega Ace reveals his dial, moves his ship, then declares and executes his action on "7," Poe reveals his dial, moves his ship, and declares and performs his action on "8" for example. Veteran Instincts is good because it raises your piloting skill and makes you more likely to activate last and respond to your opponent and shoot first. Push The Limit is good because it lets you perform 2 actions rather than one during your activation phase. Custom re-paints are kosher, however according to the "official" rules actually modifying the model is not. I'd put money on a future "The Force Awakens Aces" style set that gives us an "official" Black One T-70. I'll leave the build advice to the people with more experience, but Autothrusters seems like a good starting point. Conventional wisdom seems to be that BB-8 actually isn't the best astromech choice for Poe. 
Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 07:45
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Otisburg posted:cool words Okay, so cool. So "Push the Limit" lets you take a free action whenever you would normally do an action, once per turn; and BB-8 lets you do a free Barrel Roll action after revealing but before you actually move as long as it's a green maneuver. So because of how the turn "stack" works, Poe can have a green maneuver pre-picked on the dial, then: - Barrel Roll for free, even though the X-Wing normally cannot Barrel Roll - Use Push The Limit to do one of Poe's normal actions, like Boost or Focus, and gain 1 stress - Actually do his maneuver, which must be green to trigger BB-8's ability, which means he loses 1 stress - Now that he's back to zero stress he can do another action, like Boost again? If so, that seems really good? Like Boost is already wrecking faces in the core set games we've been trying to play because I've been using Blue Ace and Poe to constantly loop around the TIEs essentially for free.
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Dec 28, 2015 07:55
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guts and bolts posted:Okay, so cool. So "Push the Limit" lets you take a free action whenever you would normally do an action, once per turn; and BB-8 lets you do a free Barrel Roll action after revealing but before you actually move as long as it's a green maneuver. So because of how the turn "stack" works, Poe can have a green maneuver pre-picked on the dial, then: E: I am a huge idiot, and this works almost exactly like you said. I thought BB8 triggered on executing the maneuver, not revealing it. It's drat good. EXCEPT: You cannot perform the same action twice in the same round, so no double boosting. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Dec 28, 2015 |
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Dec 28, 2015 07:59
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^^^No, he's right. You can PTL off the free barrel roll from BB8.guts and bolts posted:Okay, so cool. So "Push the Limit" lets you take a free action whenever you would normally do an action, once per turn; and BB-8 lets you do a free Barrel Roll action after revealing but before you actually move as long as it's a green maneuver. So because of how the turn "stack" works, Poe can have a green maneuver pre-picked on the dial, then: Yes, that's exactly how that combo works, and it makes Poe very, very maneuverable.
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Dec 28, 2015 08:01
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Orvin posted:It is much closer to the B-Wing crew mod, than to the titles you listed. what? No its not. not at all
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Dec 28, 2015 08:03
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Otisburg posted:E: I am a huge idiot, and this works almost exactly like you said. It's drat good. EXCEPT: You cannot perform the same action twice in the same round, so no double boosting. It feels really strong at a glance, my friend (also new) is already complaining that Boost is too good; being able to Focus and Boost in the same turn feels crazy, given Poe's ability text seemingly not consuming a Focus token, only requiring one. So I can't Boost twice in the same turn, though? EDIT: saw yours, got it. Focus + Boost seems the way to go. ConfusedUs posted:Yes, that's exactly how that combo works, and it makes Poe very, very maneuverable. So is he competitively playable? I'm hyped now.
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Dec 28, 2015 08:12
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Yep, doubling up on the same action is forbidden per the main rule book. Hello Nasty is crazy maneuverable, too. He can boost off a Talon Roll because of his text, which can put him in some interesting positions.
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Dec 28, 2015 08:15
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It's also worth noting that, with the few exceptions of 3 big fuckoff models, it almost always makes more sense to buy the pack the card comes in than going to ebay because 1) you get a sweet rear end model as a bonus and 2)you don't really save that much on ebay to begin with. Saying that, If you keep liking this game you'll end up like the rest of us with 3 big rear end models sitting on your shelf looking awesome and getting zero play because HOLY poo poo cool spaceships.
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Dec 28, 2015 09:21
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Carteret posted:It's also worth noting that, with the few exceptions of 3 big fuckoff models, it almost always makes more sense to buy the pack the card comes in than going to ebay because 1) you get a sweet rear end model as a bonus and 2)you don't really save that much on ebay to begin with. If you have all the Huge ships or just the size pairs IE Raider Vs CR90 offering to let your friends use them in a Epic or Cinematic scale game will get them used a lot more, I've played like 5 games using them since the Raider came out doing this. I mean more points = more wangs
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Dec 28, 2015 09:42
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Carteret posted:It's also worth noting that, with the few exceptions of 3 big fuckoff models, it almost always makes more sense to buy the pack the card comes in than going to ebay because 1) you get a sweet rear end model as a bonus and 2)you don't really save that much on ebay to begin with. As someone coming into it new and pricing things out, I'm starting to notice this. Like, authothrusters are running 6-8 bucks as a single. Or I could buy the Starviper for $13 from Coolstuffinc, and it includes two of them, plus a ship I'm not jazzed about and all the other upgrades, but hey, for an extra dollar (or possibly even cheaper than getting them as singles), why not? If nothing else I can foist the diminished expansions onto a friend as a "freebie." As someone who's jazzed about both the T-70s and TIE Intercepters, I'm gonna need me some Autothrusters.
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Dec 28, 2015 09:54
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guts and bolts posted:Anyway, what's a good "starting point" for someone who's new and really wants to use Poe Dameron as their ~special guy ace pilot~ for his dumb X-Wing team? Everywhere I look I see people saying he should use "Push the Limit" or "Veteran Instincts," but can someone explain to a new player why those are good choices? PTL: this game has a very tight action economy, improving your access to actions is a HUGE advantage. VI: moving last and shooting first, especially when you have repositioning actions available, is very useful, it means you can get out of peoples' firing arcs, and get them into yours, without them having a chance to react before you blat them. It also means that a number of other things reliant on you having tokens (e.g. Juke from the TIE/fo expansion) are more likely to work, because you won't have spent the token in defence before you fire. In terms of what to team with Poe I'd see two options: - Millenium Falcon or YT2400. Poe plus a big, tough YT is a classic build at the moment, you load out with tonnes of goodies making the YT almost impossible to kill, and you load out Poe... much the same, really. - Rebel Aces expac. Poe/B-Wing/A-wing is a nice team. I like running him with Keyan Farlander (B-Wing with Heavy Laser Cannon) and Jake Farrell (A-Wing with Push the Limit and VI thanks to the a-wing test pilot title) but this is a tough list to build as the pilots between them occupy a tonne of points, and you want to kit them out well so they don't die. Poe typically has two options - high-PS arcdodger using BB8 as his droid, or regenning tank using R5P9. The tank version is probably less fun to play both with and against IMO. My best advice though would be to find a local group and borrow some ships. Listbuild online, print out your list, borrow the ships to play your list, see what you find fun. THEN buy it. DOn't spend a not-inconsiderable amount of money first only to find out you don't actually like playing $ship.
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Dec 28, 2015 10:35
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thespaceinvader posted:PTL: this game has a very tight action economy, improving your access to actions is a HUGE advantage. More specifically, Push the Limit works well with Poe because by using it in conjunction with BB-8 it allows him to get more use out of it than other pilots generally do. You can put PtL on anyone but some pilots work better with it than others. Technically you can achieve the same level of action economy by putting PtL + BB-8 on any X-Wing capable of taking both. guts and bolts posted:So is he competitively playable? I'm hyped now. Well, both of the final two lists at the last X-Wing world tournament were using Poe so I'd say it's looking pretty likely.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:10
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Kai Tave posted:More specifically, Push the Limit works well with Poe because by using it in conjunction with BB-8 it allows him to get more use out of it than other pilots generally do. You can put PtL on anyone but some pilots work better with it than others. Technically you can achieve the same level of action economy by putting PtL + BB-8 on any X-Wing capable of taking both. Indeed, it leaves a huge number of options for places he can end up - akin to a pre-nerf Phantom - when you can choose to do barrel roll/boost/move, barrel roll/move/boost, move/boost, even being stuck on green moves will make you hellish unpredictable and moving at PS8 is enough to beat at least some aces.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:14
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thespaceinvader posted:Indeed, it leaves a huge number of options for places he can end up - akin to a pre-nerf Phantom - when you can choose to do barrel roll/boost/move, barrel roll/move/boost, move/boost, even being stuck on green moves will make you hellish unpredictable and moving at PS8 is enough to beat at least some aces. It opens up a lot of possibilities but I have found that people who first start experimenting with it tend to get stuck thinking in terms of green maneuvers only which does make it a bit predictable when you get used to playing against it...it's not that it can't work, it's that you need to know when to go for something besides a green. Also PS8 is a bit of a rough spot since it's juuuuust lower than a number of ships you'll really want to not be lower than (Vader, Soontir, Coran motherfucking Horn with Veteran Instincts, et al) which is one of the draws of the VI + R5-P9 setup beyond its durability.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:27
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Kai Tave posted:It opens up a lot of possibilities but I have found that people who first start experimenting with it tend to get stuck thinking in terms of green maneuvers only which does make it a bit predictable when you get used to playing against it...it's not that it can't work, it's that you need to know when to go for something besides a green. Also PS8 is a bit of a rough spot since it's juuuuust lower than a number of ships you'll really want to not be lower than (Vader, Soontir, Coran motherfucking Horn with Veteran Instincts, et al) which is one of the draws of the VI + R5-P9 setup beyond its durability. Yeah, I'd be much more inclined towards VI/R5P9 if I was going for being competitive, but I wouldn't play it in a tournament because lol at buying the loving Transport just to get a single droid.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:32
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, I'd be much more inclined towards VI/R5P9 if I was going for being competitive, but I wouldn't play it in a tournament because lol at buying the loving Transport just to get a single droid. Nah man, you buy the Transport to get all the X-Wing pilots that come with it, the astromechs are just a bonus.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:39
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Eh, I'm just not that interested in running rebels. Scum are more my jam, but I just don't feel like the scum I like are competitive enough at the moment so I'm running Imperials for now. I like ace interceptors, basically, they're the funnest thing in Wangs, and Rebels really don't do them all that well. Poe can pretend to be one, Jake is an excellent one, Tycho is fun, Corran I guess is good, but mostly they're not that good at it compared to Phantoms and Squints. The thing I really want to make work is a Lttz Razzi-based Scum build but I've just never seen it be good enough, and if Latts is the only thing left it's so easy to get into an unwinnable stern chase.
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Dec 28, 2015 11:43
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thespaceinvader posted:Yeah, I'd be much more inclined towards VI/R5P9 if I was going for being competitive, but I wouldn't play it in a tournament because lol at buying the loving Transport just to get a single droid. If you want to be competitive then R2-D2 is the way to go because you can guarantee that shield regen every turn. No transport required. Also allows you to play some mindgames with opponents because they think you will do a green and instead you pull a tallon roll or just get the gently caress out of dodge.
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Dec 28, 2015 14:26
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If I was being competitive I'd be running someone else with R2D2 as well 
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Dec 28, 2015 14:29
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KongGeorgeVII posted:If you want to be competitive then R2-D2 is the way to go because you can guarantee that shield regen every turn. No transport required. Also allows you to play some mindgames with opponents because they think you will do a green and instead you pull a tallon roll or just get the gently caress out of dodge. R5-P9 honestly works better with Poe because you want to hang onto that focus anyway and so you effectively get the benefits of R2-D2 but A). cheaper and B). with a broader scope of movement you can take and still get the shield regen. R2-D2 is absolutely competitive, that's not in question...if it wasn't for that upgrade I'm pretty sure nobody would be running Corran Horn, for instance.
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Dec 28, 2015 14:48
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zVxTeflon posted:what? No its not. not at all I meant in the sense that it lets you take upgrades that the bare ship is normally unable to use. Upgrades that are not widely available to take on most ships. The ships that normally have those upgrades usually have that opportunity cost built into their points cost. Royal Guard and A-Wing Test Pilot lets you take or double up on upgrades that every ship in the game has some form of access to. There is not a need to add in an opportunity cost, because ships don't have an opportunity cost added to use those cards. Some generic ships have a single point cost for EPTs, but A-Wings were way over costed to begin with.
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Dec 28, 2015 15:20
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So does anybody else have the problem where they can perform perfectly well on casual game nights, to the point of winning more than they lose, but anytime they go into a tournament they completely choke, even against people and lists they've beaten handily before just days before? Green dice man, green dice.  I will say that being on the receiving end of Omega Leader with Juke is pretty brutal and extremely frustrating - restricting a ship to unmodified rolls with the added punch of negating an evade seems pretty powerful against lists that rely on a pair of powerful ships (Brobots, etc.).
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Dec 28, 2015 16:51
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