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Zandorv posted:Thanks for the advice! I'll ask her about what you've said. A couple of questions, though- the turtle I'm looking at is only semi-aquatic, and most sources I looked at said they just needed a tub on one side of their tank filled with water about 2" deeper than their shell height. Was that incorrect? If so, is there anywhere you'd recommend looking for guides on turtle or tortoise care? I know with fish at least there's a lot of misinformation out there about how to properly care for them, and I know she wants to make sure she provides the optimal environment for her pet. Yeah, they definitely don't need deep water compared to other species, but the smaller the water area, the quicker it'll get fouled. Most keepers I have seen opt for 75 gallons for that species, but I have seen care sheets that say 55 as a bare minimum. You can always do plastic bins instead of an aquarium, which would be the cheaper option. I just mean to stress that turtles frequently end up in smaller enclosures than ideal. You had mentioned a 30 gallon tank, and I would say that's too small, at least for a mature turtle. If the enclosure's going to be setup in a way where the water is in a removable tub, then you could get away without a filter by doing frequent water changes. If the setup is a bit more permanent though (like a tank partially filled, with a basking area built above the water line), filtration will be necessary. You'll start to understand when the turtle decides to poo in the water - It's..... unpleasant. My 6" turtle clouds the entire 125 gallon tank once a day for like 10 minutes before the filter clears it up. Unfiltered, things would get real gross real fast. Who knows though, maybe wood turtles prefer terrestrial pooping. As far as diet goes, like I said, that's more of an 'in my opinion' thing than anything else I said. You could probably find experienced keepers who would be ok with giving that species nothing but veggies. I guess her reasoning is what's throwing me a bit, that's all. I think you could have a healthy vegetarian turtle in this species, but that you'd have a healthier omnivore. Is it specifically live food that she takes issue with? Like, would pellets containing fish meal be an issue for her? It's not like veggies only would be animal abuse or anything for this species though. Temps sound ideal in your area for shipping. As far as good resources for turtles, my personal favorites are Austin's Turtle Page, which initially looks pretty amateur but has good info, and turtleforum.com. The forums even specifically have a subforum devoted to rating dealers, which might help you out. There's a lot of younger people on the forum, so you need to filter out some chaff, but some of the older members there are obsessively knowledgeable, submit to scientific journals, etc.
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Dec 28, 2015 20:19
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Make sure your friend understands that a wood turtle can (read: should, if properly cared for) live for 50+ years (source. Is she fully prepared to take responsibility for this animal for most of her adult life, probably into her retirement?
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Dec 28, 2015 20:39
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Man, just found out my brother in law's beardie died today. She wasn't looking so hot over the weekend so not a huge surprise but holy hell, I didn't realise she was close to 17 years old, he's had her since he was four. Got a few heirloom pets of theirs kicking about. Partner is really upset over it, I guess the dragon had been kicking about for over half her life. Didn't realise how easy it is to get attached to them til I picked ours up from the pet shop yesterday after a week away. She did just suggest we could ask for the tank so we don't have to buy a new one for our beardie though, I don't get that woman sometimes.
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Dec 28, 2015 21:28
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If you go the shipping route with the turtle, I should say since you mentioned them, avoid backwater reptiles. People have recieved sick and dying animals from them. My understanding is that they are like a puppy mill but with reptiles/amphibians. You should see if there is a reptile show around you, that way you can see the animals in person and don't have to worry about shipping.
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Dec 28, 2015 22:48
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No offense to your friend, but anyone who values a diet over their pet's needs should not get that pet. A meats-only-eater should not get a rabbit and expect it to be fine eating chunks of chicken and egg. My mom and I have about 20-30 box turtles that live in our backyard; with it being winter, they have a heated house to sleep in, and every evening I trek around and find the fuckers that sought some sun only to get too cool to get back to their house. And we have a few babies kicking around too. But the thing is, I can't think of a single turtle that can survive healthy on a vegan diet. gently caress, even our leopard tortoises will chow down on any canned cat food we leave out for the turtles from time to time. Hardboiled eggs too. For a first time turtle owner, I would avoid anything aquatic. For a first time tortoise owner, avoid red-foots, sulcatas (aka spur thighs), and very young hatchlings of any species. Leopard tortoises do great here in AZ, but a Russian might be better for your friend.
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Dec 28, 2015 23:46
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Aquatic turtles make up 1/3 of our surrendered animals and the vast majority of the ones we can't adopt out. Try and convince her to get a small land turtle/tortoise if she's set on something with a shell. Red eared sliders and painted turtles are pretty lovely pets tbh
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Dec 29, 2015 20:33
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I've given her all the info I've gotten here and she's agreed to get a tortoise instead. She needs one that stays small, though, and is good for beginners. What would goons recommend?
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Dec 29, 2015 22:00
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I had an aquatic turtle as a kid. I love turtles and they're my favorite animals, but I wouldn't exactly want one as a pet now nor would I recommend them. Her name was literally "Little Stinker," or "Stinky" for short. That should start to clue you in. I'd love to get a Tortoise someday but I want nothing to do with an animal that lives in water. Turtles also really don't like being handled and it stresses them out a lot. And makes them piss and poo poo everywhere. As a kid I probably tormented that poor thing without even realizing it. Yes, they are super cute but they really don't like to be held.
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Dec 29, 2015 22:19
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On my way home after being with family for Christmas and I can't wait to see my little cold blooded family that gives zero shits about my existence 
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Dec 30, 2015 21:29
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Zandorv posted:I've given her all the info I've gotten here and she's agreed to get a tortoise instead. She needs one that stays small, though, and is good for beginners. What would goons recommend? Ask her who she's leaving her tortoise to in her will. Make it clear it's not you.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:47
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Russians are good. Make sure it's captive bred. Nix any attempts at redfoots, yellowfoots, leopards, and gently caress's sake never ever a sulcata/spur thigh.
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Dec 31, 2015 00:00
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Yeah. Don't get a sulcata or African spur because you really don't want a hundred pound tortoise going around your home. It's like getting a cold blooded pony that lives 100 years. Tortoises are also a lot smarter than you'd expect. They're naturally inquisitive, can recognize their owner and some can even learn their names. Granted it depends on the species, but wood turtles are probably the brainiest.
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Dec 31, 2015 02:41
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Our Russian, Oval, is....special. We got her about 20 years ago, when they were importing WC Russians like mad. gently caress, our first pair of leopards were WC. We have all 3 still. That said southern AZ is not a good place for a Russian. Neither was New Mexico when we first got her, but like I said, it was more like 25 years ago. No real info about them was out there. So we see Oval only in the spring and short fall, and the rest of the time she spends burrowed in our tortoise hut. Unlike every other Russian I have seen, she is the size of a dinner plate. Huge girl.
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Dec 31, 2015 10:14
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Cowslips Warren posted:Russians are good. Make sure it's captive bred. Nix any attempts at redfoots, yellowfoots, leopards, and gently caress's sake never ever a sulcata/spur thigh. I've always been interested in reds, why such a strong no to them?
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Dec 31, 2015 21:07
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MrConfusedTurkey posted:I've always been interested in reds, why such a strong no to them? They get big. Not as big as a sulcata, but our male was over 13 inches when we sold him. They need high humidity and aren't good beginner torts like the OP was looking for.
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Jan 1, 2016 17:15
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Cowslips Warren posted:They get big. Not as big as a sulcata, but our male was over 13 inches when we sold him. They need high humidity and aren't good beginner torts like the OP was looking for. Oh, that makes sense. Thanks! Also, does anyone have any advice for shipping younger (and small) snakes from Washington to Arizona? My fiance is moving here, but we are stuck until we can figure out how we will get his ball python and cornsnake here. They're both around a year old, it's very cold in WA, but in AZ it's still around 50-60F during the day, with lower drops at night, even though I don't live terribly far from Phoenix, so I think shipping might be out of the question. Any advice would be helpful, and if shipping is a must, if you could find a helpful guide on how to properly ship during cold weather, it would be much appreciated. I've looked, but I have never done reptile shipping, so I don't know what is good or bad information, and if anything happened to them, it would be just downright heartbreaking.
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Jan 1, 2016 18:12
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MrConfusedTurkey posted:Oh, that makes sense. Thanks! Hah, i actually live in Phoenix. Some nights it's 30*. I know there are restrictions on shipping reptiles (you will need a heat pack at least) depending on the carriers but I've never done it myself. The best I can offer is, no matter what carrier you use, to get a Hold At Location. IE if you ship it Fedex, have them hold it at the hub or a close-by Fedex store.
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Jan 1, 2016 19:37
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Cowslips Warren posted:Hah, i actually live in Phoenix. Some nights it's 30*. Thank you, I was looking at some shipping sites though, and there are warning messages about right now being a no-ship time due to delays and temperatures. Neither of his snakes have eaten in over a week, and I read on a few forums people keeping them in their cars with the heat on and making the drive here, and keeping them in pillow cases within boxes and bringing them into their hotel rooms at night. They are both very healthy, and the estimated time of travel would be around two days with adequate time for sleeping and eating breaks. It would be stressful for them, but are there any risks of serious issues, as long as they stay at a reasonably warmer temp (75F+)? A very small moving truck seems to be our most affordable option at this point, and also the least stressful knowing the reptiles can be watched, maybe even set up in their tanks in the hotels overnight?
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Jan 1, 2016 20:00
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Moved a ball python by car from Houston, TX to Pittsburgh, PA over the course of about 2.5 days. He was kept in his tank through the journey. It was early May, so nights were chilly, but he came through it no worse for wear. Kept him warm mostly with ambient temps and those hand warmer packet things.
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Jan 1, 2016 20:08
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Update: my friend may still be interested in a tortoise, but she's also recently heard about two red-eared sliders that her roommate's mother is trying to get rid of. She says they're not in good living conditions right now and she wouldn't mind feeding them meat since they need it to survive. (Although she doesn't want to voluntarily seek out a pet that has non-vegan dietary requirements, she doesn't mind taking in animals that need to eat meat if they're in need of a home). However, lots of you have specifically mentioned red-eared sliders as bad pets. Are they hard to care for? Would they be better off if she released them into the wild (they are native to our area, in Alabama)? Can you even do that with a domestic-bred turtle, will it know how to care for itself? It's entirely possible that something will happen and we'll never hear about these turtles again or her roommate's mom will find someone else to take them, but if that doesn't happen, should she take them in? If not, what should be done about them? Edit: the friend would not get both a tortoise and the turtles. It would be one or the other. I realized that was very unclear in this post.
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Jan 5, 2016 08:53
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Zandorv posted:Update: my friend may still be interested in a tortoise, but she's also recently heard about two red-eared sliders that her roommate's mother is trying to get rid of. She says they're not in good living conditions right now and she wouldn't mind feeding them meat since they need it to survive. (Although she doesn't want to voluntarily seek out a pet that has non-vegan dietary requirements, she doesn't mind taking in animals that need to eat meat if they're in need of a home). However, lots of you have specifically mentioned red-eared sliders as bad pets. Are they hard to care for? Would they be better off if she released them into the wild (they are native to our area, in Alabama)? Can you even do that with a domestic-bred turtle, will it know how to care for itself? Red-eared sliders are just a bad idea, especially as indoor pets. Not even full grown, those two will require a BARE MINIMUM, of about a 150gal tank, with a filter that is capable of cycling THREE TIMES as many gallons of water. They're very prone to infection from dirty water, and just because you have the filtration necessary, doesn't mean there won't be a lot of large water changes, weekly gravel-vacuuming and you will need to deal with the algae yourself, because they will eat any algae-eaters you toss in there. Feeding them can be rather expensive to make sure they are getting the variety they need, plus you need to make sure they both are capable of using a basking/uvb spot simultaneously, which is hard to do in even a 150gal, since turtle docks aren't really that big. tl;dr, they are very filthy, and rather drat expensive, while also requiring way too much indoor space. As for releasing, I believe that's illegal in a lot of places, not sure about Alabama, but you said they aren't well cared for, and if they have disease, that could be downright awful to do to a wild population if it is spreadable. It's much better to just find a rescue, although finding one with available space for a red-eared, will likely be difficult. If you do decide you want to seriously undergo this task, quite contrary to the stigma that they just GOTTA HAVE LIVE FOOD, they don't. There are a lot of frozen-thaw options, along with the pellet diets, and frozen cube snacks, as well as some freeze-dried treats. They also actually like a lot of greens, too since they're omnivorous. Feeding live fish is not a great idea, since you're most likely just going to be giving your animal sick, dying creatures that also probably have a lot of internal parasites that could be passed on. There are a lot of guides online you can look at, but if a guide tells you you can house a full-grown turtle in something like a 40-55g, get away from it, as these guys need at least ten gallons of water, for every inch of turtle you have. ie, if you both of those turtles are around 5 inches, 100 gallons is your MINIMUM (although, going bigger will always be better). Keep in mind that a red-eared slider can reach a length of around 12 inches. For two, that is a huge tank, and a ridiculous filter. Your friend needs to know, that if she has any doubts that she can handle this, they're highly likely going to be completely unenjoyable burdens, but if she does decide to seriously tackle this, then I really wish her the best!
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Jan 6, 2016 02:27
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Bought our dragon a new basking spot/hide as she's outgrowing her old one. We kept the old one in anyway at the other end of the tank so last night she crawled under it as usual and spent all evening looking at us so drat grumpily because it doesn't block out the light from the living room now. We moved her under the new one and she fell asleep straight off, was still under it when I turned her heat lamp on about 6.30am and then when I got up again she was sat on her old spot as far away from the light as possible, looking at me like 'what?'. Not sure I can force her to move or change because she's a lizard but I suppose I can put the old one back where it was and she can just get bigger and bigger and eventually spill over the sides and engulf it. So ungrateful.
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Jan 6, 2016 15:42
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  I think it's time for some new tank liner. So poopy.
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Jan 8, 2016 18:49
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I like to use a nice thick layer (say, two inches or more) of sphagnum moss. You can easily change out the poopy spots, it retains moisture nicely when you mist and then releases it, it's naturally antibiotic, and the gecko buddies like to snuggle down into it at night. It's also good padding for when they make a leap of faith and misjudge the distance.
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Jan 8, 2016 18:52
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Leperflesh posted:I like to use a nice thick layer (say, two inches or more) of sphagnum moss. You can easily change out the poopy spots, it retains moisture nicely when you mist and then releases it, it's naturally antibiotic, and the gecko buddies like to snuggle down into it at night. It's also good padding for when they make a leap of faith and misjudge the distance. Do they ever correctly judge the distance? Watching our crestie jump is so hilarious. I don't think she gets where she is going 90% of the time. We use cypress with a layer of sphagnum on top.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:42
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I'll get some sphagnum in there for sure!
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Jan 8, 2016 20:52
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Well, this new US regulation basically destroys the entire salamander hobby; a complete ban on inter-state trade in the majority of salamander genera that breed in captivity. It'll also prevent me from selling a number of the species that I breed that sell best and let me live off of my income - I work a job I absolutely love that doesn't pay well, and sell the salamanders I breed to make up the difference. I have no idea what I'm going to do. http://www.fws.gov/injuriouswildlife/salamanders.html
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Jan 12, 2016 18:47
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So I'm thinking very hard about getting a male blood python (P. brongersmai). I've always wanted one, I love their look, and I've been speaking to a breeder who has some very calm little T+ albinos for sale. I'm obviously doing extensive research, and I own a couple other snakes, so I'm not new to this. I'm just curious if anyone around here who owns a blood/short tail has any particular husbandry tips? Maaaybe pics??
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Jan 28, 2016 16:07
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OneTwentySix posted:Well, this new US regulation basically destroys the entire salamander hobby; a complete ban on inter-state trade in the majority of salamander genera that breed in captivity. It'll also prevent me from selling a number of the species that I breed that sell best and let me live off of my income - I work a job I absolutely love that doesn't pay well, and sell the salamanders I breed to make up the difference. I have no idea what I'm going to do. So if I'm reading that right they're banning it for something that hasn't happened and might never happen anyway? Why not just ban the import of the European Salamanders that might carry the fungus? Why go with the nuclear option right away? Did the big snake part of the lacy act get sued out yet or is that still on court? I mean I don't mind a rule like that as long as it was only for states where they could actually be a problem like you know Florida. Still like a month and a half away, but as way to try and get this thread moving a bit. Anybody else going to Tinley Park in March? I know Silver Nitrate is and might do a booth this time. Hopefully I actually run into her this time. Wouldn't mind meeting any other herp goons since we're all a special kind of weird I don't mind meeting compared to your average goon.
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Jan 29, 2016 08:44
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I grew up with birds (our cockatiel, Tonto, lived from 1992-2011) and I'm thinking of getting a bearded dragon in lieu of a ball python as BDs have greater intelligence and more defined personalities in comparison. As such, I'm doing research. For example, say no to reptile sand and go for mats instead, and in the early years it can just have shredded paper towels or newspaper. -Getting one in its baby stage stage: good idea, so that I can hand-feed, handle, and raise it to be an actual pet instead of a creature-on-display? Or is it better to make like adopting cats and adopt a full-grown one as its personality has already set in? (The one I'm considering fits right in the palm of my hand, and I think we've already bonded; it's gone for a climb, sat on my shoulder, licked my nose, seems like a keeper.) -How about portability, i.e. being able to buy a travel tank and take it with me on car trips and Christmas vacations back home? I know snakes are very susceptible to cold weather and BDs require frequent feeding in comparison, and both need large 40-gal tanks to be happy in their adult stages. Should I just look into pet care places instead of trying to take a BD on the road for days/weeks at a time?
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Jan 29, 2016 20:20
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My favorite thing about the salamander ban is that Ambystoma isn't listed. I would be willing to bet money it has something to do with the larval form still being used as fishing bait in some regions.
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Jan 31, 2016 05:05
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Cless Alvein posted:So if I'm reading that right they're banning it for something that hasn't happened and might never happen anyway? Why not just ban the import of the European Salamanders that might carry the fungus? Why go with the nuclear option right away? They're basically going along with the agenda of an organization called "Save the Frogs," which is extremely anti-pet, so it honestly appears to me like they're using the disease as an excuse. The import ban is solid and something that is definitely needed, but the interstate trade ban actually makes it more likely that Bsal escapes into the wild if it is already here, and if it isn't, it does nothing but more or less destroy the majority of the salamander hobby. They need the cooperation of the salamander hobby to test collections and gather data on Bsal, but they've actually made it illegal to send swabs across state lines. FWS has also shown a very poor track record of managing diseases (wasting disease in deer or white nosed syndrome in bats), whereas USDA has shown they can prevent the spread of these kinds of diseases (avian flu) without going to these lengths. I think the snake lawsuit is still in court. Ambystoma was tested and found that Bsal doesn't have much of an effect on them. But they're also ignoring how Ambystoma as fishing bait is one way that lots of diseases have spread in the past. I don't see why any native genera are listed at all, though; if they have it, then it's in the wild and the primary method it'll be spread is not through interstate salamander shipments. One thing that really annoys me is that they're actively ignoring solid scientific recommendations when implementing this ban and instead are using some pretty poor science for their justification, so it honestly does feel like Bsal is a secondary issue rather than the thing they're specifically trying to deal with. OneTwentySix fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 17:48
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A few hours after I posted the above, I wound up checking out local Kijiji postings for beardies. Lo and behold, someone had a fella and the whole setup for sale, so off I went to take a look. (They were pretty cool about a total stranger popping over like that, plus they had a tidy house also occupied by a friendly husky puppy and an equally friendly 10 year-old cat, all of which I considered good signs.)  $200 CDN for the lot. Left lamp is sunlight, middle heat, right is night light but the bulb is dead so they've just been leaving the other 2 on full-time. (They bought a Desert Gecko kit and have no idea how many gallons it is, and the box doesn't specify but it does have measurements.) I asked a lot of questions as my research indicated. Among some of the answers: -born/hatched November 2012, they bought him from a Petland (I know, I know) the next month for Christmas after a year of the daughter asking for a pet reptile thanks to a vacation to a Mexican resort where "huge ones were everywhere." Selling him simply because the daughter has lost interest. -they presume he's male; handled him frequently, had him out of the tank for "a few episodes of TV" on a routine basis. He came out with no problem, stayed on me without anxiety, licked my fingers, clothes, neck, and scalp (which I also take for good signs). No behaviour problems, though the cat did get aggressive once and he nipped catitude right on the nose. -no injuries, illnesses, or trips to the vet his whole life as it wasn't necessary. No scars or visible problems either, both eyes seem fine. -not a picky eater, steady diet of crickets, lettuce and berries, plus calcium -they never used sand in there, ever. Only mats. -he used to chill in that rock-house but now he doesn't fit in it ("Desert Gecko" size, right?) so he just mostly sits on it all day -they said he hasn't grown any further and suspect he'll stay that size; I know no tank is too small but he doesn't appear cramped or unhappy either. If he does grow, no problem, new pad. And so on. I'm going to bring my new buddy home tomorrow, and leave the setup exactly as is since that's what he's used to. But clearly I'll need to hit the big box pet store up the street for: -a new night bulb (they were using an ExoTerra Night Global 120v/60hz/75w) -a shady hiding spot where he'll actually fit. (Presumably placed under the night lamp?) -more plants beyond that single plastic one. Maybe some real ones? (Also placed under the night lamp?) -fresh crickets, maybe some other insects. Should I avoid the canned/preserved stuff? Think he'll need more calcium at this age? -more stuff to climb on, maybe one of those hammocks. Any thoughts or suggestions? Agent Escalus fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 07:00
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If I remember correctly the desert kits come with a 20L( 30 x 12 x 12). You should def upgrade to at least a 40B(36 x 18 x 16) at some point. I'd probably go with like 55-75 just in case depending on how big he is. I'd gets new UVB bulb since they only really last like 6 months and I'd rather be safe than trust their info on it. If he'll eat canned snails, they make a pretty decent snack. Dunno if you can find local. I typically can't and order them from Amazon for skink occasionally. Remember to get vit/calcium powder to sprinkle on crickets and greens. I do hope they meant they were feeding him greens like mustard greens, dandelions and cabbage and not any type of lettuce since they're basically water and nothing else. Also avoid Spinach. It is fine occasionally, but can cause calcium problems when fed often and in large amounts. http://www.thebeardeddragon.org/what-do-bearded-dragons-eat.php for what to feed and other info. Cless Alvein fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 08:22
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Majestic lord surveying his kingdom.
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Feb 2, 2016 06:21
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dog days are over posted:Majestic lord surveying his kingdom. Yeah, this lizard is regal af
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Feb 2, 2016 06:54
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Forgot to post about this. On Friday I was going to close door on Skink enclosure and it slipped out of my hand. One of the bracket's screw head sheared off and the door shattered on the stand and my leg.  After a huge mess to clean up including the blood I apparently was dripping all over my rug, I emailed Jim Scharphorn, the man behind http://pvccages.com/, and within an hour he had replied with the cost for a replacement including the glue needed to attach the glass to the plastic bracket. Surprisingly reasonable price of $40. $15 for glass with the rest being fees and shipping a large piece of glass and all. He shipped it out yesterday and I already received it and have got the glue curing now. Had to flip tank so glass sits flat which means temporarily housing Buttercup somewhere else. He is now in a sweet tub with a small heat tape pad and some of my clothes to burrow in.   Samus also had to move temp since she sat on top and all. Cless Alvein fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 05:55
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Hey, if anyone needs to upgrade their tanks, Petco's sale this month has 50% all Zilla tanks. Spaghetti is gonna move to a 40 breeder this paycheck!
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Feb 3, 2016 07:02
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Agent Escalus posted:I grew up with birds (our cockatiel, Tonto, lived from 1992-2011) and I'm thinking of getting a bearded dragon in lieu of a ball python as BDs have greater intelligence and more defined personalities in comparison.  The big difference is that balls are crepuscular (active around twilight and dawn) which is not good for people who want to interact with (or see) their pet during daylight hours.
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Feb 3, 2016 13:11
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Ginger -- my crested gecko -- has had a flaky awful shed...  Her first couple of sheds have gone so well, but this time she's got skin bits sticking all over, including on some of her toes. I've been doing my best to gently free her toes, but she's so twitchy and ticklish that I'm having a hard time. Any suggestions? Should I just let her keep a damp hide for a few days and hope things work themselves out? Regarding ball pythons -- Salazar's eyes went all cloudy a week ago, but he hasn't started to shed yet. Is that normal? Is he being slow about it because of the time of year? Should we feed him, or wait until he's done getting rid of his skin?
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Feb 3, 2016 15:12
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