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computer parts posted:Maybe add masks/helmets too, with Finn taking off his helmet paralleled with Rey and her scavenger getup immediately afterwards. Finn takes off his white helmet and becomes more powerful, yet Kylo takes off his black helmet and becomes weaker. Daring social commentary from JJ Abrams.
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Dec 29, 2015 06:59
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Hollismason posted:I thought it was pretty obvious Poe like liked Finn. Like seriously who bites their lip like that and not give off " I wanna gently caress you vibes". If Ep VIII had a game of space volleyball, I would not be surprised.
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Dec 29, 2015 07:16
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wins.
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ImpAtom posted:Because he isn't training his Force Powers. He is training his mindset. His ability to use his force powers depends on his mindset. His ability to use his Force Powers is entirely dependent on him being appropriately mental conditioned. That is the point of the X-Wing scene. Luke doesn't need to train to get to the next level of Force Pull. He has it already. He needs to be able to control himself and unlearn what he knows about the world. This is already buried because the thread moves too drat fast, but I wanted to touch on this. The idea that Jedi only ever have to train their mental outlook is somewhat limiting. Sure, the idea is that the force guides you and whatnot, but you also need the mental acuity to pull off whatever bullshit you're trying. Take Luke and Yoda. Yoda has Luke stacking rocks or whatever while doing a handstand and jabbering in his ear. I always took that as teaching him, not only to open himself to the force, but to drown out extraneous noise and stimuli while still processing it, as well as developing the proper coordination to balance a tower of rocks with his loving mind.
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Dec 29, 2015 07:47
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Dimo ArKacho posted:This is already buried because the thread moves too drat fast, but I wanted to touch on this. The idea that Jedi only ever have to train their mental outlook is somewhat limiting. Sure, the idea is that the force guides you and whatnot, but you also need the mental acuity to pull off whatever bullshit you're trying. Right, but that's still basically part of the same thing. Luke doesn't need to learn the proper wand motions for Wingardium Leviosa. He needs to have the proper mental state in order to do what he needs to do. Luke, when he has the blast shield down, and when he is properly attuned and focused, can block a laser bolt completely sight unseen because the Force Guides him. It is, in fact, easier for him to do it than with his eyes open and fully focused. Luke needs to learn to focus, to let go of himself, and so-on. Part of that is not mentally going "holy poo poo I can't do that, that's impossible" which is probably his biggest limiting factor. Luke just doesn't believe it when he's told that limits are basically a mental thing. The first film ever emphasizes that Luke can do an 'impossible' thing if he personally doesn't think it is impossible. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 07:51
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Kulkasha posted:I hope they go to "everyone can use the force, if they train hard enough/gain deep insight into it" like Kasdan? originally proposed. I feel like the talk the yellow alien lady has with Rey is kind of alluding to this kind of idea, which I would be ok with. All this talk about who is force sensitive and who isn't is getting old anyways, and makes the force seem like a "you have it or you don't" kind of thing. She described it as something that surrounds everything. I think a big idea in the force awakens is that the force itself has "awakened" and guided characters to certain decisions, like Finn not blasting the village. Rey is beginning to realize this and thus realizes she can use the force to her advantage I hope that made any sense
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Dec 29, 2015 08:03
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ImpAtom posted:Right, but that's still basically part of the same thing. Luke doesn't need to learn the proper wand motions for Wingardium Leviosa. He needs to have the proper mental state in order to do what he needs to do. Luke, when he has the blast shield down, and when he is properly attuned and focused, can block a laser bolt completely sight unseen because the Force Guides him. It is, in fact, easier for him to do it than with his eyes open and fully focused. True, and that's why he's told to put the blast shield down, or close his eyes, or whatever. It's teaching him to turn off the world and trust his instincts. The idea is that, once he learns to do that, he can start imposing his own will on what's happening. Luke's issue is that he's always too hotheaded, which is why he ends up hiding in the fall with his eyes closed in RotJ, he's not a true, fully formed Jedi. Rey using the force to dismantle some machine for parts, for example, would pull from not only her usage of the force, but her specific knowledge of machine components. Obi-Wan wouldn't be able to do that.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:06
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Trollipop posted:I feel like the talk the yellow alien lady has with Rey is kind of alluding to this kind of idea, which I would be ok with. All this talk about who is force sensitive and who isn't is getting old anyways, and makes the force seem like a "you have it or you don't" kind of thing. She described it as something that surrounds everything. I think a big idea in the force awakens is that the force itself has "awakened" and guided characters to certain decisions, like Finn not blasting the village. Rey is beginning to realize this and thus realizes she can use the force to her advantage I think it's just fun to try to guess what they'll do with the characters, especially since Episode 8 is a long ways away.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:17
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I can't wait until Episode VIII where Luke will tell us that the Force doesn't use midichlorians anymore
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Dec 29, 2015 08:34
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Were the Knights of Ren actually in the movie, or just mentioned as being a group that Kylo is in charge of? Would his followers all be similarly nerdy, or more well-adjusted but perhaps less intimidating or violent so they don't get to be in charge. Also, did Luke ever actually learn how to fight with a lightsaber? At some point after Yoda gave him all the legitimately important lessons of self control and rock stacking, did he "take out that little laser sword of his and go to town" to teach luke basic fencing technique? Liquid Dinosaur fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 08:35
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Were the Knights of Ren actually in the movie, or just mentioned as being a group that Kylo is in charge of? Would his followers all be similarly nerdy, or more well-adjusted but perhaps less intimidating or violent so they don't get to be in charge. Nope, they were never in the movie. We don't know anything about them other than that Kylo's the "master" of them.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:40
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You actually do see them in Rey's flashback/force visions
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Dec 29, 2015 08:42
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Pakled posted:Nope, they were never in the movie. We don't know anything about them other than that Kylo's the "master" of them. So yeah they must be a pretty pathetic bunch.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:42
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ImpAtom posted:Right, but that's still basically part of the same thing. Luke doesn't need to learn the proper wand motions for Wingardium Leviosa. He needs to have the proper mental state in order to do what he needs to do. Luke, when he has the blast shield down, and when he is properly attuned and focused, can block a laser bolt completely sight unseen because the Force Guides him. It is, in fact, easier for him to do it than with his eyes open and fully focused. You still need training. What exactly this training actually consists of is never fully explicated, but it's pretty clear that the Force isn't something you can easily just "get" on your own. You need someone to show you how to do it, to teach you the techniques. Think of the Force as being like yoga or qigong (it's no mistake that two of the most preeminent Jedi Masters in the films are, in fact, named "Yoda" and "Qui-Gon"). They're very spiritual disciplines, but neither is a vague, fuzzy-wuzzy, just-believe-in-yourself-and-you-can-do-it sort of thing. You have to learn techniques. The Jedi aren't waving their hands around and outstretching their arms for their health. It's a martial art as much as it is a philosophy, at least when it comes to the more physical manifestations of the power. You have to let the ambient energy of the universe enter your body, flow through it, and then exit it in a different form. We see in the films that you can use the Force without executing the proper body motions, but this seems to be considerably more difficult, presumably because the orientation of your body is not as conducive to channeling the life-force energy in the desired way. I don't know why Star Wars fans are so adamant that there be absolutely no element of physicality involved when you're using the Force to exert influence on the physical world itself. It doesn't betray anything Yoda says about us being "luminous beings." We are luminous beings--but, clearly, at the present moment, we're in possession of a physical body, living in a physical world, still at least somewhat concerned with physical things. Yoda isn't some deranged Puritan telling Luke that the flesh is sinful and unworthy of the blessings of the Force, and that he should stop masturbating or whatever because he's an energy being goddammit and he'd better start acting like it! He's trying to illustrate a broader principle. All he's saying is that the physical world is part of a larger reality, not that it doesn't exist in any way or is completely irrelevant to our present lives. That's ludicrous. If that's the case, what the hell is even the point of practicing yoga or qigong?
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Dec 29, 2015 08:48
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:So yeah they must be a pretty pathetic bunch. They're basically what, a civil war re-enactor militia? I mean, I don't know if star wars has a planet Mish'igan but I wouldn't be surprised if they're from there.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:50
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Also, did Luke ever actually learn how to fight with a lightsaber? At some point after Yoda gave him all the legitimately important lessons of self control and rock stacking, did he "take out that little laser sword of his and go to town" to teach luke basic fencing technique? There are deleted scenes from TESB where Yoda teaches Luke how to use a lightsaber on Dagobah (Yoda himself doesn't have a lightsaber, but he gives Luke pointers as he practices). Unfortunately, those scenes went uncompleted because of budget overruns.
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Dec 29, 2015 08:59
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Barudak posted:They're basically what, a civil war re-enactor militia? I see them as a gang of neo-nazis who shot up a (their?) school.
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Dec 29, 2015 09:19
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hi I just wanted to post that if in a piece of fiction, there is a guiding force that is accepted to be omniscient but looking for balance, then any act that seems incredulous was most likely perpetrated by said omniscient force. double if it's literally called "the force"
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Dec 29, 2015 09:20
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I want them to be Metal Gear villains, each with their own weird personalities and names and powers. And then Poe and Fin defeat them all one by one in a side movie taking place between Episode VII and VIII.
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Dec 29, 2015 09:24
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Box Office forecasts are saying that it made 33 million on Monday and will break 600mil domestic tomorrow. That's in 12 days for those keeping track. The current record for fastest to 600 million is 36 days held by Jurassic World. It WILL be over 700 million this weekend. Avatar is surely going down next week. 1 billion domestic is officially in play.
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Dec 29, 2015 09:25
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Kassad posted:I see them as a gang of neo-nazis who shot up a (their?) school. Kylo Ren and his gang, in addition to being school shooters, pretty clearly represent modern fears of radical Muslim terrorists. Disillusioned youths led astray by charismatic recruiter using violent, misanthropic dogma. It's every Western parent's worst nightmare. Kylo Ren is pretty brilliant when it comes to encapsulating the current fears of our society.
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Dec 29, 2015 10:22
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Phylodox posted:Kylo Ren and his gang, in addition to being school shooters, pretty clearly represent modern fears of radical Muslim terrorists. Disillusioned youths led astray by charismatic recruiter using violent, misanthropic dogma. It's every Western parent's worst nightmare. Kylo Ren is pretty brilliant when it comes to encapsulating the current fears of our society. 
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Dec 29, 2015 10:41
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Phylodox posted:Kylo Ren and his gang, in addition to being school shooters, pretty clearly represent modern fears of radical Muslim terrorists. Disillusioned youths led astray by charismatic recruiter using violent, misanthropic dogma. It's every Western parent's worst nightmare. Kylo Ren is pretty brilliant when it comes to encapsulating the current fears of our society. And he attacked Luke's Jedi maddrasah first, mirroring how radical Muslims also attack Muslims not aligned with them.
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Dec 29, 2015 10:51
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PassTheRemote posted:If Ep VIII had a game of space volleyball, I would not be surprised. Great, now I can't get "Playing With The Droids" out of my head.
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Dec 29, 2015 12:00
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Zeris posted:It is happening in fanfic forums across the internet right now my friend TFA opened the floodgates by immediately shipping them. It's a TIE fighter joke 
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Dec 29, 2015 12:41
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Away all Goats posted:You actually do see them in Rey's flashback/force visions I get a real seven samurai vibe from this crew, especially the way they all have different weapons. None of which are lightsabers. I mean there's a gun, a scoped rifle, dual pistols, a staff, even big buster sword on the guy at the back.
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Dec 29, 2015 13:17
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Is it safe to assume that Luke's old lightsaber was around during that scene and that's why it is part of the vision? It would explain why Ren wanted it so badly during the fight on Starkiller base. Not only did it belong to Anakin at some point and does it have superior craftsmanship, it also slipped away from him in the past (because Maz Kanata got her hands on it). And to top it all off, the guy wielding it is some hipster non-Jedi traitor, WTF! [/emo kylo]
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Dec 29, 2015 13:41
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Mierenneuker posted:Is it safe to assume that Luke's old lightsaber was around during that scene and that's why it is part of the vision? It would explain why Ren wanted it so badly during the fight on Starkiller base. It fell down a shaft in cloud city was the last we saw of it. It wasn't an energy shaft or anything and cloud city was never destroyed, so most likely someone found it and it exchanged ownership a few times.
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Dec 29, 2015 13:45
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Seeing it change hand(s) would be a great opener for the next episode, although they might be wary of doing a sequence like that right after the title crawl.
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Dec 29, 2015 13:49
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I mean one of those maintenance pig people probably found it, pawned it off to a trader for money, and that trader probably eventually ended up at Maz's where she recognized what it was and bought it off him.
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Dec 29, 2015 14:03
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greatn posted:I mean one of those maintenance pig people probably found it, pawned it off to a trader for money, and that trader probably eventually ended up at Maz's where she recognized what it was and bought it off him. Yeah, lightsabers probably aren't anything more than a curiosity since, you know, non-Jedi aren't really supposed to be able to wield them without cutting off a limb. So it makes sense for it to find its way to a collector.
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Dec 29, 2015 14:08
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Whoever said the lightsaber blades are weightless? It has to have some mass; it's not a flashlight.greatn posted:I mean one of those maintenance pig people probably found it, pawned it off to a trader for money, and that trader probably eventually ended up at Maz's where she recognized what it was and bought it off him. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 14:25
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Mierenneuker posted:TFA opened the floodgates by immediately shipping them. I don't get the joke  Also I am excited for Episode VIII: Kill
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Dec 29, 2015 14:43
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The joke is that they literally were on a (space)ship together. They were "shipped" together. It was a pun and I hate myself for explaining this.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:08
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Kurzon posted:Whoever said the lightsaber blades are weightless? It has to have some mass; it's not a flashlight. It would be massless if actual light was coming out, however the mass has to be practically negligible if it's plasma or something similar. Swinging one around should take no effort at all, but they're often wielded like they have the weight of a medieval sword.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:09
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Medieval swords were actually lighter than many people believe.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:18
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Kurzon posted:Medieval swords were actually lighter than many people believe. Yes, but a longsword's weight is distributed across the sword and balanced close to the guard - not entirely in the hilt.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:38
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Smoking Crow posted:I can't wait until Episode VIII where Luke will tell us that the Force doesn't use midichlorians anymore So for some reason this post made me think, what if those are just microbes drawn to force sensitives and not what makes up the force itself.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:41
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Cnut the Great posted:I don't know why Star Wars fans are so adamant that there be absolutely no element of physicality involved when you're using the Force to exert influence on the physical world itself. It doesn't betray anything Yoda says about us being "luminous beings." We are luminous beings--but, clearly, at the present moment, we're in possession of a physical body, living in a physical world, still at least somewhat concerned with physical things. Yes, and that physical body is a limitation. Thus why Obi-Wan becomes 'more powerful than you can possibly imagine' when he gives it up. You ignored the second part of Yoda's line there. "Not this crude matter." Likewise "Size matters not." Cnut the Great posted:Yoda isn't some deranged Puritan telling Luke that the flesh is sinful and unworthy of the blessings of the Force, and that he should stop masturbating or whatever because he's an energy being goddammit and he'd better start acting like it! He's trying to illustrate a broader principle. All he's saying is that the physical world is part of a larger reality, not that it doesn't exist in any way or is completely irrelevant to our present lives. That's ludicrous. If that's the case, what the hell is even the point of practicing yoga or qigong? Literally nobody said any of that and the last part is meaningless because you're acting like any discussion of The Force applies to real life which it doesn't. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 15:43
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TheMaestroso posted:Yes, but a longsword's weight is distributed across the sword and balanced close to the guard - not entirely in the hilt.
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ijyt posted:So for some reason this post made me think, what if those are just microbes drawn to force sensitives and not what makes up the force itself. This has been how I've seen it for a while now. Midichlorians don't grant access to the Force, they're drawn to it. So determining a person's midicholorian count can be useful for determining how strong they are in the Force (because more are drawn to stronger users), but the Jedi were wrong in the prequels (as we've seen) when they say they're how Jedi use the Force. It's not, like, super supported by the text, so don't bother pointing out how the movies don't tell us that. Just a little bit of personnel canon.
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