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I disagree about the ringmail. 2 int and slightly more ac isn't worth the loss of regeneration and hit to dodging & spell failure, especially since you get a percentage bonus to ev by flying. Irradiate is good, learn that. It's not good enough that you should invest in transmutation skill, but if you can cast it with your conj + veh bonuses (and you should be able to before lair is finished) it's a useful backup tool. Having an emergency spell that does heavy damage to everything touching you and can't miss is very helpful. I was skeptical when the spell got added but it's a very useful spell that you might cast 10~ times over the course of an entire game. As far as future spells go, I would say focus air. Tengu get an apt bonus and you already have access to freezing cloud. Start picking up air/ice to get that castable with a slant on air, then ride that till you get chain lightning & tornado. You also need way more spell casting, it is mana and spell slots and spell failure and spell hunger all at once. It's nearly as important as your primary damage school. Especially with Vehumet you want to be able to pick up all the good spells he throws your way, including OoD which as a cj start will be an easy get and very powerful neutral damage.
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Dec 29, 2015 11:55
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As you might expect, I died on L:1 about 10 minutes later to a hydra. What do you do to hydras? Just run away and come back later?
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Dec 29, 2015 16:52
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e: weird double post.
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Dec 29, 2015 16:52
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Arivia posted:As you might expect, I died on L:1 about 10 minutes later to a hydra. What do you do to hydras? Just run away and come back later? If you can't kill it with your magical might before it's adjacent, you turn on your wings (you move slightly faster while flying) and get out.
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Dec 29, 2015 16:53
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As a blasty TeCj do you just memorize all the starter spells in order or do you just go MM, Searing Ray, and jump to Battlesphere? I am terrible at blastercasters but TeCj sounded fun. Sage Grimm posted:If you can't kill it with your magical might before it's adjacent, you turn on your wings (you move slightly faster while flying) and get out. Well poo poo, that might have saved me against that ogre 
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Dec 29, 2015 16:56
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I've been going Searing Ray, Mystic Blast, then either Fulminant Prism or Battlesphere depending upon how I'm doing, Prism seems to have a worse failure rate at the same time as Mystic Blast (because it's Conjuration/Hexes, I think), so I grab Mystic Blast first for orc packs and poo poo. Here's how I've been playing: -Magic Dart is just bread and butter plinking. -Searing Ray. Get it up at level 2, and definitely by the time you go down to D:2. You use it on slightly harder targets, so adders and anything more dangerous. (Also worms, which are surprisingly tanky.) How you use it is that it casts along the ray line every time and never changes. So you want to have a target start at the far end of the line and never change out of it (a single-tile wide corridor, for example.) Cast it, then rest with . while you have the Ray status to keep channeling. -Mystic Blast. Throw it at groups of dangerous poo poo (orcs, gnolls, wights.) I think it's less damage to a single target than Searing Ray though, so don't blow it on single creatures. I might be wrong because I am new at this. -Battlesphere. Just keep it up all the time when you see something. Blasts away at whatever you attack. But I think it needs to have a clear line of effect, so hanging out in hallways with it can be awkward. It seems like you can shoot through it though? Either way, when you get it you can be much more powerful and conserve mp by keeping it up while you paint things with Magic Dart. -Fulminant Prism. It's a timed bomb, essentially. Goes off roughly two turns after you cast it, so you need to predict enemy movement so that people end up in the bomb. Not hard for Crawl, at least early on. It's a physical crystal, so both you and your enemies can attack it and make it go off faster. Conversely, you can use it in narrow hallways to split groups and blow them up. It's a lot of fun.
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Dec 29, 2015 17:10
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Sage Grimm posted:If you can't kill it with your magical might before it's adjacent, you turn on your wings (you move slightly faster while flying) and get out. Turning your wings on only makes you move 10% faster and takes a turn (and some MP!), so that's only really useful if you're going to be fleeing for at least 11 turns straight. Or, if you planned ahead enough to turn it on before the fight. It also gives +20% EV!
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Dec 29, 2015 17:51
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I'm really confused about when a vampire can and cannot use passwall. At the moment I can use it at near bloodless but earlier I couldn't use it part way through satiated. NVM I was pressing my button for stoneskin, I figured this out about 1 second after posting.
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Dec 29, 2015 17:59
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I don't think it's a good idea to go straight for battlesphere with TeCj. You don't have the charms aptitude to make it worth it. Focusing entirely on conjurations will add power to searing ray, which should be your main early game nuke, until you have enough MP and spellpower to use mystic blast reliably. After you can count on mystic blast to take out a dangerous enemy by itself, then I'd start working on battlesphere. You can absolutely pick up fulminant prism on the way. It's a great spell. I tend to emphasize it more on characters that are invested heavily in hexes and need a serious early-mid game nuke, but it does great work on any character that can cast it at decent power. Tengu really benefit from investing heavily in a few schools and don't work as well if you spread your xp out across several types of spells. They are tend to be strongest as the old "reaver" type of character, with a strong focus on conjurations and one elemental school (air if you have chain lighting or CBL with rElec, else fire or ice depending on what you find) mixed with melee and without serious investment in utility magic. Deep elves are the caster race you want if you want to blow everything up with battlesphere and fulminant prism before D: 6 then be able to cast every utility spell, sling serious conjurations and shoot a longbow at mindelay by lair branches (and explode instantly if something so much as looks at you).
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Dec 29, 2015 18:21
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Dazzling Spray is actually great and got my deep elf wizard who found a book of maledictions most of lair. Vampires should always be able to cast transmutations or turn into bats.
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Dec 29, 2015 18:30
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PleasingFungus posted:Turning your wings on only makes you move 10% faster and takes a turn (and some MP!), so that's only really useful if you're going to be fleeing for at least 11 turns straight. Or, if you planned ahead enough to turn it on before the fight. Arivia posted:Snipped Normally I would skip over Prism and Battlesphere on a TeCj going Vehemut. While they are useful, Vehemut will more then likely give you better options (bolts and clouds specifically) and you want to have the spell levels to get those. Also Dazzling Spray is a great spell and you won't need any Hex for it with the massive Conjuration and Int you should have. I normally turn on and never turn off Conjurations at the beginning with Spellcasting on passively till it hits about 8. The reason I only worry about Spellecasting to 8 is extra spell levels, hunger reduction, and quoting the leardb, "The first 8 matching levels of XL and skill give you 0.5 mp each, so XL 3 and Spellcasting 3 gives an extra 1.5 mp" so at 8 you get the full extra bonus of 4 MP on top of what you would have gained naturally. Afterwords passively raise Dodge, whatever element the spells you are using, or Fighting. Do not use a weapon if going blaster caster unless it is for something like a, I don't know, rat or something. If you are meleeing you probably should have been running. Do pick up every randart weapon you find to see if you get one with awesome resists, +Int, or whatever that would boost your casting. Just remember not to ever swing it untrained and blow 2 turns or so. Either way, you should be looking for a Staff of (whatever spells you are using) or Energy. Do not worry about Armour at all and put every Stat gain into Int. Wear either Troll Leather or a nice randart Ring Mail. Your defense is going to be that you can kill whatever comes into your LoS immediately with fire from the skies! World Famous W fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 18:49
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PleasingFungus posted:Turning your wings on only makes you move 10% faster and takes a turn (and some MP!), so that's only really useful if you're going to be fleeing for at least 11 turns straight. Which lets you get that critical one space away from anything normal, at the cost of taking a hit or two, so you can stairs without taking the foe with you. So it's actually useful even when you're too lazy to use it early! In the case of a Cj vs hydra, you're probably only going to blast it with IBS/IMB until it's one step away anyway, not risking it getting adjacent (2 steps if paranoid/safe). FR: make off-level enemies use the stairs if they saw you go up. Fhqwhgads posted:As a blasty TeCj do you just memorize all the starter spells in order or do you just go MM, Searing Ray, and jump to Battlesphere? I am terrible at blastercasters but TeCj sounded fun. Memorise them all in order until you fancy yourself an expert at the class - there are often multiple reasonable ways to play a mage background (see WFW's and Heithinn's conflicting advice - both styles are very winnable even if I think Heithinn's is much stronger) but learning all the spells will never be a bad one. When you end up learning a Hex/Charm conjuration, get a few skill levels in that school, but no more than its spell level for a long time.
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Dec 29, 2015 19:44
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Matlock Birthmark posted:So, been awhile since I've played a simple Mintotaur Zerker, and frankly I'm a little lost. I suspect this is fatally moot now, but one thing I would consider on "pro" level, but not really user-friendly is the Elven Halls. On one hand, you can end up dying extremely quickly, not even mentioning banishment. On the other hand, with moderate luck, caution, antimagic weaponry, and dig/disintegrate for excessive murderholing, I'd give you a roughly 50% chance of survival without even considering any other factors. So that is what I would do. On a much more rational level, I'd suggest dipping into shoals with scrolls of fog and noise, wands of fire and lightning to help deal with mesmerize. I still think you look a little squishy, so I'd only dip in there for a little xp, and hopping back and forth between vaults or (very lightlty) depths, expecting to need to use bros in arms. If you gain a couple of levels of experience but run low on piety, then elf 1&2 make trog very happy. Your goal, as soon as you can safely do so, is to reach crypts so you have at least one more choice in case your path is blocked elsewhere. Did aizul splat you?
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Dec 29, 2015 20:08
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I'm pretty sure the new elven halls would have murdered that character anyways. Apparently the higher tier elves are much more common on the upper levels.
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Dec 29, 2015 20:14
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I'm on a kick of HuWn of Ash and just going whatever path the background and floorgod provide, and it's pretty fun. Plus starting with a +2 weapon means I can fart around for a bit before committing to a weapon path. I'd want someone to watch me play and let me know when I'm about to do dumb poo poo, but I think my issues tend to be from inefficient build choices. I'm really bad about focusing too much on defense on casters and offense on melee dudes I think.
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Dec 29, 2015 20:43
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Looking lightly over the changes to trunk re: orcish mines and elven halls, it looks like I really do need to switch over to trunk if I want even my basic advice to stay relevant, so, here I come.
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Dec 29, 2015 21:21
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I refuse to play trunk because they still haven't reverted the rMut changes. And they are never going too. 
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Dec 29, 2015 21:46
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I'm currently playing an offline version of trunk that I managed to pick up just before the amulet changes started happening. Pretty happy about that.
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Dec 29, 2015 21:53
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I only play trunk versions when they sound less annoying (like after dying to a mimic or shadow traps, seeing the trunk version when those got nerfed)
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Dec 29, 2015 22:36
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Darox posted:I'm currently playing an offline version of trunk that I managed to pick up just before the amulet changes started happening. Goddamn it I don't suppose that's an OS X Tiles version? No? 
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Dec 29, 2015 23:58
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Darox posted:I'm currently playing an offline version of trunk that I managed to pick up just before the amulet changes started happening. Internet Kraken posted:I refuse to play trunk because they still haven't reverted the rMut changes. Yeah I'll be honest, I know being a dev on your free time isn't easy, but I'm probably sitting this one out until the dust has settled with all the zany changes on trunk. I do like a bunch of other changes on trunk though, so hopefully at some point the pros will outweigh the cons. 
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Dec 30, 2015 00:55
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LordSloth posted:I suspect this is fatally moot now, but one thing I would consider on "pro" level, but not really user-friendly is the Elven Halls. On one hand, you can end up dying extremely quickly, not even mentioning banishment. On the other hand, with moderate luck, caution, antimagic weaponry, and dig/disintegrate for excessive murderholing, I'd give you a roughly 50% chance of survival without even considering any other factors. So that is what I would do. This was basically the same advice as what I was going to post, but isn't Vaults runelocked?
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Dec 30, 2015 01:07
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Huh. Why did I think you needed to train a spell by using it repeatedly to get its power up? Is spell power just a function of skills, Int, and relevant items? Why did I ever think otherwise?
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Dec 30, 2015 01:17
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You used to train skills by 'using' them way back when, which led to a lot of dumb behavior like not killing enemies so you could train armor/evasion.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:19
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8 full revisions ago you had to victory dance to train
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Dec 30, 2015 01:19
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Back when you couldn't train spellcasting until you reached level 1 by reading scrolls while you had xp in your xp bank. e: On the other hand, resist slowing was still an amulet and berserk didn't exhaust you, so if you ignored the slow you could infinitely berserk. I'm pretty sure the bad amulet changes can be directly linked to when they replaced resistslow with stasis.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:31
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Arivia posted:Goddamn it I don't suppose that's an OS X Tiles version? No? It's pretty easy to clone the repo and build your own. I'm on holidays right now but when I get back next week I'll gladly build you whatever version you want if you don't know how to do it.
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Dec 30, 2015 01:44
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LordSloth posted:Did aizul splat you? Yep. But good advice you gave all the same. I've mostly been playing trunk to play Pakellas, but tried the zerker without switching versions. As for the character, Shoals was the right path to go. My decent throwing aptitude and collection of javelins/tomahawks were doing pretty well against sirens and the like. Then Aizul came around a corner while I was dealing with one of said sirens. Ahh well, fun times.
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Dec 30, 2015 02:11
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What spells/God do you guys typically use for Enchanters?
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Dec 30, 2015 02:33
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Ashenzari for overall skill boosts and knowing what's behind a wall or around a corner. Dithmenos for doubling down on hexing chances, his stealth aura, and his escape options. Kiku for an easy switch into Necromancy. Okawaru for melee boosts when you can't rely on stabbing and his god gifts. Nemelex to give you an alternative option when things go bad. Sif for transitioning out of Hexes into other spell schools. Basically anything except Trog (can't spellcast) or Qazlal (loads of noise when you're trying to be stealthy) are decent choices.
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Dec 30, 2015 03:30
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Someone said Deaths Door is a liability because something can just snipe you once it wears off. I find that fear is totally unfounded. Also, Zigs.png  fadam posted:What spells/God do you guys typically use for Enchanters? All the enchanter starting spells are good. Confuse is for anything that can't be slept/is dangerous to try sleeping in melee range, dance is for anyone being annoying with a polearm and anything that is harder to hex but has a weapon, corona stays relevant as a means of sInvis, and dazzling is okay I guess. I don't use dazzling as much. If you mean hex spells beyond that invisibility is king and other useful tools are Gells, the aoe ice/hex slow thing, mass confusion
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Dec 30, 2015 03:48
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Not My Leg posted:This was basically the same advice as what I was going to post, but isn't Vaults runelocked? Yes. My mistake, certainly. ugh.
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Dec 30, 2015 16:05
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I first played this like a year ago, never made it past Lair. Picked it up again in the last couple weeks and...code:
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Dec 30, 2015 16:14
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First ascension since starting playing again, but nothing much of interest happened. I didn't find any great items, just solid equipment, and I didn't have many close calls. I liked Ru a lot, though.code:code:code:In terms of skill training, what should i be aiming for with M&F and Throwing before I hybrid out and try to train up some magic schools.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:49
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I have a feeling I'm hopeless at this game. I keep getting to the point where I feel like I'm getting weaker compared to everything I fight by Lair:4 unless I specifically both choose easy mode poo poo like MiBe, SpEn, or the like and get good luck the first few floors. Playing Hu or DsWns and scumming only to avoid the 80% of starts with a dagger and one potion, I still feel like even when putting all my exp into weapon until 10-14 and then starting Fight/Armor/Dodge to give some breathing room I just run into a hydra or komodo dragon or elephant pack and either have to run away from more and more poo poo or try to fight and immediately die. Did melee accuracy get nerfed in the last couple updates? I'm running around with 14 weapon skill, a ~+3 weapon, and ~8 Fighting and miss a vast majority of my attacks unless I use a short blade or the like, even with stuff with nearly no EV.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:03
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Sounds about right :P E; by the time i reach d7 / d8 a thought automatically pops up and it is; "How am i going to kill the inevitable bunch of Hydras in Lair?" As a caster it's something like, getting a bolt spell like ice bolt or w/e online and as melee it's usually wands of fire/cold/draining. Komodo dragons and elephants can be nasty but you should be able to melee them for a bit until you get into trouble. What i tend to do a ton is; aggro some monsters, try taking out some of them, flee up stairs, exclude this stairs, go down a new set of stairs and repeat. heard u like girls fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 18:33
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It's specifically Hydra's and Death Yaks that need special care imo. All the other poo poo you can poison-kite or smash over the head with a freezing weapon.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:51
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Arivia posted:As you might expect, I died on L:1 about 10 minutes later to a hydra. What do you do to hydras? Just run away and come back later? My most generic advice... Damage Wands. Despite their high health, hydras have little defense ... And some solid MR. Wands of disintegrate and paralysis are of little use, but even weak throw frost/flame can do significant damage if you complement them with something more powerful, either drain/fire/cold, or a more powerful spell you simply don't have the MP and range to use every step. As long as you're not so unlucky to encounter them on Lair:1, then it is simply best to retreat up a staircase as mentioned until the situation is favorable. Sometimes spiny frogs, mambas, blink frogs are more frightening because of their speed, but the window where they're threatening is much shorter, and their vulnerabilities more plentiful. Edit: Okay, even if the mobile forum app is awesome, it doesn't help me notice that someone already said what I just bothered to type out on a phone. LordSloth fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 19:14
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Note that another viable answer to death yaks and hydras is Run Away. Unless you get Swamp and you can't deal with the Poison branch, you can just put off the answer to them until they become popcorn by sheer out leveling. Considering that death yaks and hydras are usually the most lethal things, it really helps improve your survivability.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:14
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On online play, trunk is before .17 in the list. Does that mean current trunk is pre .17?
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Dec 30, 2015 19:54
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